The Nineteenth Byte

New Posts

00:10

0

Q: Numbers vs. Strings: Language fitness challenge

inspired by thejonymyster's idea Rules This challenge is about finding languages that are very suitable for one task but quite the opposite in the other. The two tasks share a theme, but Task 1 is designed to be number-oriented while 2 is string-oriented. You can participate in three categories: ...

AncientSwordRage

00:35

@pxeger sorted

caird coinheringaahing

00:52

Got to love being a uni student who plays a lot of (informal games of) poker, and seeing a YT video called "Dropping Out of College to Play Poker | Worth It?" :P

Bubbler

So many people think A ^ B when A & B is totally viable

caird coinheringaahing

I don't think they were using | as a logic symbol :P

But also, I just got what you meant, ignore me :P

thejonymyster

@cairdcoinheringaahing clearly its a bitwise operator

emanresu A

01:11

Are these dupes?

caird coinheringaahing

They're very similar, but the inclusion of enter in the fat fingers one gives me pause

Plus, the fat fingers one is only 1 key

@cairdcoinheringaahing Wait, never mind, enter doesn't actually matter, despite being highlighted?

thejonymyster

one is definitely better specified than the other :P

caird coinheringaahing

There's also this one, which is the generalised version

emanresu A

Oops linked to my answer, sorry

That was what I searched for because I remembered it

caird coinheringaahing

@emanresuA idk why, but people tend to do that a lot, so I've gotten used to it :P

Unrelated String

01:17

🤔

PyGamer0

03:27

LDQ: should golflangs be fast?

Unrelated String

they should not be too slow :P

PyGamer0

but how fast should they be?

Unrelated String

i wouldn't emphasize speed in writing one but i guess you want to be able to write very inefficient algorithms on top of them and not have them take too long on small inputs

New Posts

-1

Q: Gargantuan Collatz numbers: write a function f(x) that outputs the Collatz orbit of 10^(1500-x) - 3^(1499-x) and gives status updates as it computes

Write a function f(x) that outputs the Collatz-Terras orbit of x + 10^(1500) - 3^(1499) where x is an unsigned integer 0 or higher. The function can call other functions as needed. You may provide code for a full executable if that's the only way to meet the requirements stated herein. If your ch...

number

att

they should be faster than optimized C algorithms

emanresu A

04:25

Laziness helps with speed

Bubbler

04:45

Being reasonably fast is always better than unreasonably slow

@PyGamer0 How fast: if you try solving some simple to medium-complexity challenges and you can tolerate their running times, then it's ok

though also consider that services like TIO/ATO/.../(likely your own web interpreter) have time limits, and being able to test more testcases at once is always nice to have

pxeger

06:35

@AncientSwordRage Thanks!

PyGamer0

07:09

@att the question is HOW DO I MAKE PYTHON THAT FAST?

because my golflang is currently in python

Unrelated String

you could offload a lot of it into c libraries

PyGamer0

so i use c libs?

in python?

Unrelated String

also if it's not obvious "faster than optimized c algorithms" is a joke :P

PyGamer0

oh lol

i do want my lang to be fast :P

then i can call it fast arabic jelly

Unrelated String

wh
what

PyGamer0

07:12

or fast language arabic xjelly

flax for short

Unrelated String

there we go

Bubbler

One thing that matters is that Python is damn slow by definition and you need to choose a different implementation language if you want some decent speed

PyGamer0

yes

but i need a decent language :P

Unrelated String

so... not python

PyGamer0

i can make python faster right? by using better .. algs

@UnrelatedString yes

Bubbler

07:14

My definition of decent language is Rust :P

lyxal

@PyGamer0 scala and Go come to mind

PyGamer0

@Bubbler i excepted you to say that lol

@lyxal rust and c came to my mind

i think the fastest golflang out there is myxal/jyxal

Bubbler

You can PyPy it for a cheap solution I guess

PyGamer0

hmm sounds too cheap :p

i can try

Bubbler

or using numpy methods when possible

or maybe try rewriting in Cython?

PyGamer0

07:17

@Bubbler whats cython?

vs cpython

@Bubbler no, i dont want to use numpy

i can embed k in python and use that :P

Bubbler

@PyGamer0 cython.org

is a Python-like language that actually compiles your code to C

whereas CPython is just the standard Python you use every day

PyGamer0

oh

oh no

Bubbler

why oh no :P

PyGamer0

it looks just like c

but python syntax

Unrelated String

afaik cython as a language is more or less a superset of python so the port could be pretty gradual :P

att

07:24

I've got a language idea but I don't really know how to start with implementing it

PyGamer0

@att go on :p

pxeger

Cython is essentially an abstraction on top of writing your own Python extension module in C

PyGamer0

arg pypy is 2.7 and 3.7.10 only

att

something based on church encoding in untyped lambda calculus

I figure haskell is probably a good tool for that job but I've never gotten to learning it either

Bubbler

@att Wait until I implement a general ULC runner :P

att

07:27

i'll look forward to it :)

Bubbler

If you don't care about laziness, you can check out how Flurry is implemented

att

unfortunately?, I do

Bubbler

oh lol

att

in any case, I'm still only on the brainstorming stage

att

07:44

oh here's a thought: if 0 is false, what should true be?

Bubbler

you mean in ULC?

att

1 is already not true

i mean a character

Bubbler

how is 1 "already" not true?

att

if we encode false as a.b.b and true as a.b.a, church 0=f.x.x=false, but 1=f.x.fx≠true

Bubbler

yes, that's true (I mean your statement)

but that's just how encodings in ULC work

att

07:50

yeah so if I want a single character for true

what's a good counterpart to 0

Bubbler

O :P

att

;)

Bubbler

for a sane but not very golfy design, I'd use F and T despite 0 == F

att

then have o do something completely unrelated?

Bubbler

for a golfy design, no idea from me yet

maybe have a boolean negation function and write true as !0?

"what are some useful builtins for a ULC-based lang?" is a very good question though, which we don't yet have any compelling answer for

one interesting aspect is that, if you apply lambda terms in unintended ways, you get a ton of weird effects

att

07:57

yeah

Bubbler

one of the most interesting ones I found is this

Bubbler

08:08

also btw: true is the same as K combinator, and C combinator acts as boolean negation

att

08:29

been chasing it a bit and I think I get why the succ chain does that now

interesting

Seggan

12:12

@PyGamer0 use Myxal :P (sniped)

@PyGamer0 Kotlin

PyGamer0

12:24

@Seggan lol get sniped :P

@Seggan no

i do not wish to learn another java

Seggan

but its not another java

PyGamer0

i do not wish to learn another ~~java~~ jvm based language

Seggan

why not

it can compile to JS and native btw :P

PyGamer0

@Seggan my school is making me learn java already :p

its painful pls send help

Seggan

jvm != java

PyGamer0

12:28

but still

i dont want to learn it :P

also the syntax looks pretty much like java

Seggan

kotlin > java

syntax is 40-60% different

PyGamer0

but the rest 60-40% is similar :P

Seggan

the bits of syntax shared were inherited from c lol

PyGamer0

and anyways i do not feel like learning kotlin

@Seggan lol

py3programmer

13:01

my school will teach java

at 10th

till then its js

Radvylf Programs

Cool thing about significant whitespace: You can properly handle multiline strings with indentation

graffe

I love that my very mundane challenge became a "hot network question" :)

mousetail

More than half of questions here become HNQs

graffe

@PyGamer0 that's me and typescript!

mousetail

A higher percentange than any SE site

graffe

13:13

@mousetail we are just got!

mousetail

We just have a very high answer to question ratio for any site

Seggan

@mousetail more than half. id say 70%

mousetail

There was recently a discussion

graffe

@mousetail it is a great site

mousetail

Apperently 55% of questions become HNQs: chat.stackexchange.com/transcript/message/61999655#61999655

HNQs are often not good questions at all

it's based on some simple metrics that correlate slightly with quality

graffe

13:17

Which site comes second?

Radvylf Programs

I'd guess Worldbuilding or Puzzling

mousetail

Retrocomputing

data.stackexchange.com/stackoverflow/query/1402159/…

graffe

Latin comes third?!

We are in odd company

Radvylf Programs

It's mainly based on number of answers

So if there's a lot of enthusiastic answerers on Latin that'd make sense

graffe

@RadvylfPrograms seems to be retro computing

mousetail

13:18

Sites with few answers have a advantage, takes just a few HNQs to be in top percentile

py3programmer

guess so

mousetail

nope

Radvylf Programs

@mousetail Few answers or few questions?

py3programmer

hey my GL pi series calculator is there as well!

Radvylf Programs

@mousetail Yeah, SO's got a custom nerf built in

mousetail

13:21

SO is the worst

But actually mathematics seems to have the most total number

py3programmer

true

mousetail

Still confused why mathematics and math overflow both exist

Radvylf Programs

Math Overflow is so that professional mathematicians don't have to deal with the 13 year olds on Math.SE

It even has HNQs and visible rep/badges disabled site-wide

py3programmer

but both the sites, the mathematical content is beyond the 13 year old mind

mousetail

How is disabling rep supposed to stop 13Y/Os

py3programmer

13:24

so one is redundant

Radvylf Programs

@mousetail Two different things. It exists both to get away from Math.SE's perpetual drama, and they also have rep/badges not shown publically since I guess they're too professional for it

mousetail

My point is without rep it's impossible to tell who is the 13 Y/O

Radvylf Programs

The non-13 Y/O is the one not asking about their Algebra I homework and getting into fights with mods

(I should probably be more fair to 13 year olds)

(But they keep darkening their clothes and striking violent poses and getting left alone, but not me)

mousetail

13 year olds are dumb assholes 99%

graffe

mathoverflow will reject your question if it can be answered with standard undergraduate math

mousetail

13:28

I know this because of confirmation bias

If I see a nice smart 13 YO I would never notice they where 13 YO

graffe

cstheory.se and cs.se are meant to be equivalents but they don't work as well

@mousetail they would still be rejected by mathoverflow

py3programmer

@RadvylfPrograms i didnt realise that was also one more consequence of letting 13 year olds on the site

Radvylf Programs

It's a reference to a song :p

My Chemical Romance - Teenagers [Official Music Video] [4K]

►

thejonymyster

code golfers scare the living shit out of me

py3programmer

which song?

mousetail

13:30

@thejonymyster If code golfers scare you wait till you see regular golfers

py3programmer

im a nerd so i dont listen to music

thejonymyster

@py3programmer ^^^^^

py3programmer

humiliated in school for that

i saw

stupid network speed

slow

thejonymyster

@mousetail we need restricted source regular golf

also radiation hardening

mousetail

Radiation hardening regular golf would be hilarious

Everyone vomiting and dying from radiation poisoning trying to get to the last hole before dying

lyxal

13:34

alternatively, it'd be the most terrifying thing you'd ever see

mousetail

Depends how psycopathic you are

lyxal

people putting the ball on the tee with one hand while selecting a club from their club bag (one hand selecting the club, one holding the bag) while driving a golf-cart with the remaining 6 hands would be genuinely scary

thejonymyster

if you think about it, regular golf is all kolmogorov complexity by default

Catija

Hey, y'all - this would impact CG the most, so please take a look when you have a chance -

Adjusting the requirements for the Generalist badge so that more sites are eligible for it - including Code Golf

12

mousetail

Interesting

lyxal

13:42

@Catija while you're still here - would you be able to edit the message into something along the lines of

**[Adjusting the requirements for the Generalist badge so that more sites are eligible for it](https://meta.stackexchange.com/questions/382203/)**

? It'd make it look nicer on the starboard :)

Catija

Sure

lyxal

Thanks!

Catija

Happy to help. :)

lyxal

I like the sound of the changes, as it sounds like it would definitely make the badge no longer impossible to get

and if it means more badges for the people, I'm all for it :p

Catija

:D Yeah, y'all aren't too far off - I think you have about 30 qualifying tags and some of the top 40 are pretty close to hitting 200 but it seems like the limits are way too high to meet the reasoning for them being so high in the first place, so lowering them makes sense. I'm guessing the targets were somewhat... randomly chosen.

mousetail

13:48

I think this would be a good change but also it's just a badge so should be low priority

Catija

The change should also be super easy, I would guess, so not a big lift. :)

mousetail

In that case I'm all for it

thejonymyster

@Catija to me this seems like the only way it could have worked lol; pick a number, see if its good, change it if it isnt

not sure how youd see ahead of time which numbers/stats would be best

lyxal

@Catija well the funny thing is that those tags in the top 40 that are close to 200 may not be reached for a while yet - tags like king-of-the-hill, cops-and-robbers and source-layout aren't used very frequently, so the easing of requirements for top tags works well here

Catija

True, yeah. Better to start high and go down than try and start low and realize it's too easy... and then... who knows what. :)

@lyxal Good to know. :)

Are y'all excited for the election?

pxeger

13:52

Not especially, I've got a 90% certain bet on who's gonna win

but boring elections are good elections :)

Catija

so true.

Radvylf Programs

I'd be more excited if the election were exactly three days less than a year from when it is :p

lyxal

@pxeger see that's what you're doing wrong - you're only betting on who'll come first. It's much more fun betting on second place :p

Radvylf Programs

But I guess whoever gets elected this time around will be less competition once I'm 18

Catija

Oh no! That's too bad. - I appreciate your honesty, though.

But... happy birthday? :D That would have made for a fun present.

Fatalize

13:54

@pxeger Who are you thinking of?

pxeger

Well that would be telling

taps nose

Fatalize

nominations haven’t started right?

Radvylf Programs

@Catija Yeah, definitely :p. It's three days from now, I had the date September 26th in my head for when it started but that's probably not accurate

thejonymyster

nominations sounds like a fancy word for eating

8

Catija

@RadvylfPrograms Oh, then you should be fine? You have to be 18 by when the voting period ends, not begins.

Radvylf Programs

13:57

Yeah, but I'm turning 17. Still got a year to go :p

mathcat

@thejonymyster Can you please create a crash course on "How to get stars on SE quik"?

mousetail

Just lie on your birth certificate

Catija

@RadvylfPrograms Ah, gotcha. I mentally ignored the "year" part of the first satement. :D

Radvylf Programs

Yeah I realized after I sent it that it wasn't super clear :p

lyxal

@mathcat step 1: post funny. alternatively, post self-referential messages. step 2: get stars. step 3: make a tutorial on how to get stars on SE quik saying "step 1: post funny. alternatively, post self-referential messages. step 2: get stars. step 3: make a tutorial on how to get stars on SE quik saying "step 1: post funny. alternatively, post self-referential messages. step 2: get stars. step 3: make a tutorial on how to get stars on SE quik saying "...

5

Radvylf Programs

13:59

I'm super excited for the generalist change if it happens

Wheat Wizard

I did think it was fun to try and write challenges to populate the tags that were close to going over.

But I don't oppose the changes.

Radvylf Programs

I've been wanting some motivation to start answering again for a while, and 15 score in a variety of tags sounds like a fun challenge

mathcat

@lyxal huh seems easy

lyxal

as you can see, it works very well

mousetail

Sad I hoped nobody would star it

leave the obvious bait hanging

Catija

14:01

@lyxal seems a bit recursive?

pxeger

@mousetail don't worry, in a few minutes I'll quietly clear the stars on it

lyxal

@Catija self-referential almost

pxeger

(no I won't do that (unless it ends up with only 1 or 2 stars after a few hours))

nobody

@mousetail I did star it

Razetime

how do i downstar a message

Radvylf Programs

14:03

Become an RO and make n-1 friends, where n is the star count

I got part one down

mousetail

Excited to get the caucuses and constituent badge

Catija

I guess ROs have the ultimate down-star... the nega-star.

lyxal

@Razetime turn your screen upside down and star the message

by definition, the star will be facing down

Razetime

that's just an australia star.

lyxal

thus, downstar

Radvylf Programs

14:05

I like how this screenshot looks out of the context of the rest of the UI:

lyxal

@Razetime same thing

Razetime

nah

pxeger

austarlia?

Radvylf Programs

Sounds like a weird mix between Austin and Arlington

lyxal

@Razetime you never said the down star had to decrement the star count. as far as we're concerned, the star just needs to be upside down

checkmate nerd

nobody

14:06

@RadvylfPrograms Nice to meet you, 7.3 days.

Razetime

you're the one giving an unnecessarily detailed response, nerd

mousetail

You are the one calling someone a nerd, nerd

Razetime

cringe meta response

nobody

You're a nerd, nerd

Radvylf Programs

mousetail

14:08

your cringe meta response is cringe, nerd

lyxal

that's enough nerd calling, nerds. I'm the one who ~~knocks~~ calls people nerds

mousetail

I'm the one who calls people calling people nerds people who call people nerds

thejonymyster

@RadvylfPrograms yo whens the album dropping

actually wait

thats this

nobody

Is the new posts bot working?

Radvylf Programs

No, it died. SE did some changes and now a bunch of stuff 40x's

nobody

14:22

ah well

New Posts

2

Q: Reconstruct Matrix from its diagonals

Given the diagonals of a matrix, reconstruct the original matrix. The diagonals parallel to the major diagonal (the main diagonals) will be given. Diagonals: [[5], [4, 10], [3, 9, 15], [2, 8, 14, 20], [1, 7, 13, 19, 25], [6, 12, 18, 24], [11, 17, 23], [16, 22], [21]] Rules The matrix will be no...

code-golf math array matrix

nobody

frick

lyxal

→ 1 sussy baka moved to The Nineteenth Bakery

nobody

@NewPosts lol thanks

I will never imposter you again

lyxal

14:44

In the sandbox mathcat said you could take a flattened array as input — Seggan 39 secs ago

@nobody is this true?

nobody

double ups

must have accidentally deleted it

PyGamer0

@thejonymyster yes

nobody

Are there any stack exchange notification extensions for chrome?

Radvylf Programs

15:05

Do you want there to be one

Seggan

$20 and ill make you one :P

alternatively, 2k rep instead of the money

Radvylf Programs

It would be super easy, all one would need to do is listen to the SE inbox websocket, and use the Chrome extension notification API

mathcat

15:20

@RadvylfPrograms I always switch tabs to see if there's a new message.

thejonymyster

@mathcat doesnt the title already show that

mathcat

It doesn't with inbox messages, right?

thejonymyster

oh misread

Radvylf Programs

Should it notify you for new badges and rep notifications?

mathcat

yes

PyGamer0

15:30

CMC: Given bit representation (either a string of ones and zeros or an integer with the value of the binary sequence) of a IEEE 754 (32 - bit), output the floating point value it represents.

mathcat

something like sen but for chrome

Radvylf Programs

Can someone upvote (then unupvote if you want) and comment on one of my posts so I can test this

Aiden Chow

@RadvylfPrograms k

Seggan

so for some strange reason ranges are not lists in fig...?

Radvylf Programs

Hmm, it worked, but I'm not sure if it was the inbox or topbar endpoint

Okay can someone downvote one of my posts

Aiden Chow

15:40

@RadvylfPrograms ok

Radvylf Programs

Actually that's probably not a notification in the first place

Aiden Chow

@RadvylfPrograms gives u -1 or -2 rep im pretty sure

Radvylf Programs

Okay I figured it out

Aiden Chow

guys is it a valid input format to get input from stdin as code/expression that produces a certain value (so i an just eval it)?

mathcat

5 mins ago, by Radvylf Programs

Okay can someone downvote one of my posts

quotation power

Seggan

15:53

done

Adám

@PyGamer0 I can easily do 64-bit, but 32-bit is hard.

Radvylf Programs

hey anyone want 50 rep

mathcat

hmm

thejonymyster

@RadvylfPrograms im sure someone does, yes

Radvylf Programs

Do you?

thejonymyster

16:03

sounds sketch i dunno

mathcat

It's a trap.

Radvylf Programs

I need to get a badge on my sock to test it with those notifications

And starting a bounty's an easy one

mathcat

well then

thejonymyster

what will the bounty be for

Seggan

ill take it

Aiden Chow

16:05

yoo count me in, 50 rep sounds good

mathcat

CMC: Given all of the possible ways you can toggle one bit of a binary number b, output b.

actually is that a gud challenge?

Radvylf Programs

That's a dupe I think

mathcat

oh noh I think

Radvylf Programs

I forgot the name of the term but it's a pretty common task

Aiden Chow

bro am i going crazy but wasnt this exact question (or very similar) posted a few hours back: codegolf.stackexchange.com/questions/252093/…

Radvylf Programs

16:13

Come on SE, award me my badge

Aiden Chow

@RadvylfPrograms lol which badge?

Radvylf Programs

The start a bounty one

Aiden Chow

lol what kind of name is gold farmer sprow

Radvylf Programs

An anagram

Aiden Chow

@NewPosts wait ye im not going crazy

seems like they change it to code golf tho

thejonymyster

16:18

@RadvylfPrograms of what? im dumb

mathcat

programers

Radvylf Programs

@thejonymyster Redwolf Programs

thejonymyster

:O

New Posts

16:37

-1

Q: Gargantuan Collatz numbers: write a function f(x) that outputs the Collatz orbit of x + 10^(1500) - 3^(1499) and gives status updates as it computes

Write the shortest function f(x), measured in bytes of code, that outputs the Collatz-Terras orbit of a starting number x + 10^(1500) - 3^(1499), where x is an arbitrary-length unsigned integer 0 or higher. The function may call other functions as needed. See further requirements below. Objective...

code-golf number code-challenge

0

Q: Selective Caesar Cipher

Input A string of text. Output The string of text, however, every consonant is the next consonant in the alphabet, and every vowel is the next vowel in the alphabet (z becomes b, u becomes a). If there are two consonants in a row, they will be separated by the characters 'ei'. (For clarity, the v...

code-golf natural-language

Seggan

16:52

:62041453 i saw that

Sandbox Posts

17:29

0

A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

Set of all sets code-golf sequence set-theory open-ended-function Write a program or function which outputs all sets with a finite number of elements - but including sets that contain themselves (directly or indirectly). These recursive sets will be represented using a system similar to De Bruijn...

pxeger

18:54

@SandboxPosts @WheatWizard I thought someone who knew what they're talking about might come and tell me this wasn't very well-defined, so thank you. I did not anticipate getting so far into the weeds with this challenge - this seems not to be a well-trodden area of maths so I may have to put this challenge on hold until I can work out what I actually want

Wheat Wizard

@pxeger Look into New Foundations set theory. It has sets that contain themselves.

pxeger

Yeah I've got as far as finding a wikipedia list of non-well-founded set theories; now I've got to work out which one most aligns with my intuition (and whether my intuition even works without paradoxes)

Hmm, my "obvious" definition of what makes two sets equivalent smells like it might be undecidable.

Radvylf Programs

19:29

@mathcat There is now at least one

mathcat

you didn't make one in like 2 hours. I won't accept that.

Radvylf Programs

I've spent most of this time eating lunch and going to class :p

The source code is like 50 lines

drive.google.com/drive/folders/…

It doesn't show the actual content of the notification, for a few reasons, but it'll notify you when there's something in your inbox, when you've got a new badge/privilege, or when you've got a new positive rep change

mathcat

very epic, thanks

Radvylf Programs

Also TIL SVG files are literally almost identical to HTML SVG elements

They just need some XML stuff

My text editor even has syntax highlighting for them lol

pxeger

They have to be strictly valid XML though I think, unlike HTML SVGs

Radvylf Programs

19:34

Can you imagine if the same was true for other image formats

<pixel x="48" y="13" color="#4842ab"/>

mathcat

that's definitely cursed

Radvylf Programs

19:50

Something cool about golfing brainfuck constants: If you graph numbers vs. their optimal BF representations, the graph will always form triangular mountains, since the difference in length between the optimal representations of two adjacent integers can never be more than 1

Since if the optimal way you've found of representing x is two bytes longer than x-1 or x+1, you can just use those with a + or - appended

caird coinheringaahing

@Catija Do you have any data on how many people would get Generalist on CGCC once changed?

I think I'm reading the convo/post correctly when I think that it's zero, but I'm not entirely sure?

pxeger

> One site, Code Golf & Coding Challenges, will end up with nearly 150 members earning this badge if these changes are made

caird coinheringaahing

Oh dip

I should stop scanning posts and start reading them instead :P

Ginger

@lyxal I'd say that @thejonymyster has you beat in the starboard department :p

Transcript for