The Nineteenth Byte

Hello, World!

00:08

1

Cubestack, 65 bytes S R2 R R2 f2 r R r R r r R' L2 R B2 R2 u r r r L r R R2 f' R b S' Try it online! Cubestack is a (useless) stack-based esolang that only uses moves on a Rubiks Cube. See the repository on GitHub for more information.

thejonymyster

feedback on this? is this worth pursuing or is it like, too hard/complicated/easy/stupid/wordy?

emanresu A

Probably final feedback?

thejonymyster

00:26

@emanresuA minor, but "the list starts with length 2. It then goes to lengths 3, 2, 1, 2, 1, 2, 1, 0." probably should either all be code block numbers or remove the code block from the 2

@emanresuA more important question: can lists within the list be empty?

emanresu A

I'd say yes, since it's not very edgecasey

@thejonymyster I get it, and I think it's a pretty neat idea. However, it's hard.

thejonymyster

@emanresuA i think put a test case for it then :P

abt the o-tris one fair i thought it might be, ill prolly scrap it then

unless hard is ok

i just dont wanna be the next conway tetris :P

emanresu A

hard's fine!

Unrelated String

why not be the next gol tetris :P

thejonymyster

OTL i have enough haters as is

:P

New Posts

00:45

0

Q: Speed up, slowpoke!

In this king-of-the-hill challenge, you will program a bot, consisting of a python function of the form def BOTNAME(info, round, me): pass # ... main body Specifically, the function must run in python3.9. Each bot will be entered into the contest 10 times. Actions Each play, this bot can either ...

thejonymyster

CMC: remove the most frequently appearing character from a string

lyxal

Vyxal, 4 bytes: Ċ↑ho

and people said max by tail was useless!

emanresu A

It is

It only exists for use with Ċ

lyxal

01:07

Loving this version of VS Code Insiders

it's rather nice

emanresu A

01:18

CMQ: Is there a JS library similar to Sympy that provides types for complex numbers, rationals, etc?

user

Algebrite?

emanresu A

Hm okay, thanks

user

Or just use Sympy with pyodide

emanresu A

... interesting... idea

lyxal

@Hello,World! obligatory fizzbuzz in this language

emanresu A

01:24

Its creator is impressed

And concerned for your sanity

lyxal

eh, it's one of the nicer fizzbuzz languages I've used

nowhere near as bad as Forth or XML + XSLT

I'm just glad operations such as modulo, multiplication and equality vectorise

it would have been worse otherwise

thejonymyster

did that rubik's cube commutator challenge ever get posted

it did indeed get posted. new deadlineless bounty incoming...

tybocopperkettle

@lyxal The permalink isn't working for some reason but I'll try and fix it

@lyxal There we go, cubestack.surge.sh/…;

emanresu A

01:39

@NewPosts The controller for this is horrfiying. To prove a point, I'm making a bot called exit(0)

Unrelated String

oh no

user

@emanresuA why?

Isn’t breaking everything disallowed in koths?

thejonymyster

@lyxal now do this one

emanresu A

@user I guess... :|

thejonymyster

01:58

i know we do the deadlineless bounty thing but are we also alloewd to like... do regular bounties

Radvylf Programs

Yeah, of course

thejonymyster

ok cool :3

i had this one jelly bounty up for ages but i guess ppl just didnt care so im gonna make it a timed bounty and see if anyone snatches it :P

Radvylf Programs

We just do deadlineless bounties for a lot of stuff, either because they'd take longer than a week, or they're non-challenge-specific, or they're for things that occasionally happen but can't really be prompted by a bounty (like designing and using new languages)

thejonymyster

right lol

New Posts

04:39

0

Q: Give f and g that sometimes commute

Let \$Z\$ be either the integers, the positive integers, or the non-zero integers; pick whatever's convenient. Give two functions \$f\$ and \$g\$, each \$Z \to Z\$, such that: \$f(g(a)) = g(f(a))\$, for infinitely many integers \$a\$, and \$f(g(b)) \ne g(f(b))\$, for infinitely many integers \$b...

code-golf open-ended-function

Nobody Needs Names

08:45

WE NOW HAVE AN OFFICIAL CHATTING ROOM!!! chat.stackexchange.com/rooms/137039/speed-up-slowpoke

Speed up, slowpoke!

Speed up, slowpoke! Chatting Room, codegolf.stackexchange.com/...

Nobody Needs Names

08:57

@emanresuA is this because of the eval? how can I fix it? + how can you name a bot exit(0) ?

emanresu A

globals()['exit(0)'] = <func>

Nobody Needs Names

is this because of the eval

if so, i fixxed it

emanresu A

Yes

Nobody Needs Names

already

now it only takes in a func and use func.__name__

which should be safe totally

@emanresuA .

and is this too much bots...?

4

Q: Speed up, slowpoke!

In this king-of-the-hill challenge, you will program a bot, consisting of a python function of the form def BOTNAME(info, me, round): pass # ... main body Specifically, the function must run in python3.9. Each bot will be entered into the contest 10 times. The arguments it take in are info, ...

king-of-the-hill python

emanresu A

@NobodyNeedsNames yes.

Personally, I think it's a bad idea to have unique names for the bots at all

It's just gonna lead to targeting

Unrelated String

09:03

^

names shouldn't be accessible to other bots

Nobody Needs Names

well, ok..., but why no targetting?

Unrelated String

also wait if they have direct access to the functions that run other bots too is it actually meant for bots to run on direct simulation of each other

Nobody Needs Names

no

i'm not going to forbid that tho

@UnrelatedString i would like it if someone uses that to bust someone...

@RadvylfPrograms what's olimar from a previous discussion ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^...

Nobody Needs Names

09:29

hi lyxal

lyxal

Yes, indeed it is

emanresu A

09:54

→ 1 eggbeater moved to The Nineteenth Bakery

o/

Nobody Needs Names

11:02

I am proofreading my 2564-word long essay

and up front it says:

> In this short essay ...

should I change that... ;-)

Grammarly just popped up and suggestion to change a phrase into "have been" or "been". I chose the "have been", and now it tells me "have" is redundant... Hmmm....

Premium suggestions
We found 135 additional writing issues
in this text available only for Premium users.

OH NO...

pxeger

11:26

→ way too many capital letters moved to The Nineteenth Bakery

mathcat

(write that in all caps)

pxeger

THAT

mathcat

:facepalm:

gg

pxeger

plam?

keep clam and proof read!

mathcat

I got trolled and now have to live the rest of my life in shame how am I supposed to keep calm

Nobody Needs Names

11:49

hahaha

New Posts

12:02

0

Q: Don't touch the walls!

Given a multi-dimensional rectangular array of non-negative integers, pad it with the minimal number of zeroes so that only zeroes are "touching the edges" of the array, in every dimension. The output must remain rectangular, and have the same number of dimensions as the input. Example For the in...

code-golf array

Ginger

Connection established

ggretings

mathcat

Are you stuttering?

Ginger

no

mathcat

well why are there two g's in the word then?

Ginger

because I haven't said ggretings as my first(?) message before

mathcat

12:14

oh, creative

Nobody Needs Names

how long do i have to wait for this to get approved

codegolf.stackexchange.com/review/suggested-edits/65863

argh

> Your suggested edit is pending review.

Ginger

nvm

Nobody Needs Names

was that supposed to be a pun?

idu

@Ginger .

thejonymyster

12:34

@Ginger gg + greetings = good greetings

mathcat

12:45

or good game reetings

Nobody Needs Names

13:24

Advertisement 1:

5

Q: Speed up, slowpoke!

In this king-of-the-hill challenge, you will program a bot, consisting of a python function of the form def BOTNAME(info, me, round): pass # ... main body Specifically, the function must run in python3.9. Each bot will be entered into the contest 10 times. The arguments it take in are info, ...

king-of-the-hill python

Advertisement 2:

Speed up, slowpoke!

Speed up, slowpoke! Chatting Room, codegolf.stackexchange.com/...

Advertisement 3:

The Smartest RickRoll

►

thejonymyster

nice embed :P

2

Nobody Needs Names

:P

PyGamer0

just realised i wont be available for the first half of LDW :(

thejonymyster

thats why its twice as long as half of it

PyGamer0

to anyone interested in Wellscripted:

in Wellscripted, 2 hours ago, by PyGamer0

ASTNode("0",0)
- ASTNode("1",0)
 - ASTNode("3",1)
  - ASTNode("5",2)
  - ASTNode("6",2)
   - ASTNode("69",0)
- ASTNode("2",0)
 - ASTNode("4",1)

thejonymyster

13:30

am i naïve for thinking this can be solved with a vanilla regex

@PyGamer0 what am i lookin at here :P

PyGamer0

a tree

lyxal

@thejonymyster probably not

thejonymyster

see, i looked at that too

lyxal

also yikes, the feels from that challenge are real

Nobody Needs Names

when'sldw again

thejonymyster

13:32

i just feel like its probably golfier to use retina's... yknow... features :P

caird coinheringaahing

Dennis' most recent answer

Nobody Needs Names

when's something else again, or as i might say

PyGamer0

literally says it on the starboard

thejonymyster

but yea i think its possible in regex, just longer than the retina solution :P

PyGamer0

@NobodyNeedsNames june 15th

lmao wrong reply and i didnt even notice

thejonymyster

13:34

something to do with like, spotting alternating 01 and 10

since those are the only ones which matter lol

Nobody Needs Names

oh ok

frick it starts at 8PM for me?

PyGamer0

its 24 hours..

~~nah its 24 kilometres~~

Nobody Needs Names

but still, i think it will get less and less active over time

PyGamer0

ok so?

lyxal

@NobodyNeedsNames I doubt that. People like me, pygamer0 and Seggan will probably keep it active by using it as a regular sounding board for ideas and feedback

caird coinheringaahing

13:41

Plus I have about 10 unfinished/in progress languages, I'll definitely be using it from time to time

Nobody Needs Names

@lyxal oh ok

pxeger

@lyxal reading the first page of transcript for TIO's room is fun as well: chat.stackexchange.com/transcript/44255/2016/8/21

lyxal

@cairdcoinheringaahing exactly. People like us will use it in selfish ways :p

@pxeger y'all thinking I'm talking about the connotations of Dennis, when in reality I'm talking about how it was posted by 2x-1 and how that's low-key nostalgic for me lol

caird coinheringaahing

in talk.tryitonline.net, Aug 21, 2016 at 2:16, by Dennis

I like how every time I google something about SELinux, at least one answer/comment suggests turning it off.

ngl, "turn it off and back on again" could be the answer to like 75% of tech related questions :P

4

thejonymyster

@lyxal tbf i did only find the challenge because i was snooping dennis's profile :P

PyGamer0

13:42

@lyxal yeah :P

lyxal

@cairdcoinheringaahing I always use to say that as "turn it on and off again" not realising just how useless actually doing so would be

thejonymyster

@thejonymyster something like this but like not bad, /^(.)((01|10)((.)\5)*((?!\3)(01|10)((.)\9)*)?)*/ ?? something to do with something something something :P i swear its doable i swear ill have the money boss

youll see youll all see etc etc

New Posts

14:07

0

Q: Can the 🐸 visit all the 🪷?

In this challenge you will be simulating a frog jumping from lily-pad to lily-pad in a pond. A frog's jump distance is uniquely determined by the size of the lily pad it jumps from. So for example there are lily-pads that let a frog, jump 1 unit, lily-pads that let a frog jump 2 units etc. A f...

code-golf array decision-problem graph-theory

thejonymyster

@NewPosts uh oh, i dont have that second emoji :P

lyxal

→ 103 grammatically dubious messages moved to Off-Topic TNB

Wheat Wizard

@thejonymyster It's a lotus flower. Introduced in unicode 14.0.

pxeger

← 1 message moved from Off-Topic TNB

caird coinheringaahing

My phone shows it, but my computer doesn't :P

lyxal

14:10

@pxeger thanks, I accidentally included that and was about to move it back

Kamila Szewczyk

anyone picking up on codegolf.stackexchange.com/questions/152856/…

i wonder how low i can get with cheesing the problem using questionable lossy transformations that improve compression ratio

pxeger

> cheesing the problem using questionable lossy transformations that improve compression ratio

that is the entire point of the challenge, is it not?

thejonymyster

i mean i dont think its cheesing, your score reflects it yeah

i also like that /// space answer

even though it was apparently controversial :P

Kamila Szewczyk

@pxeger i also plan to use a "stock" compressor

which coincidentally happens to be something i wrote a while ago that could be potentially useful for this problem...

i have submitted codegolf.stackexchange.com/a/248520/61379 which is better than the other stock compressor answer already as a temporary solution :p

Sandbox Posts

0

A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

Find the walls code-golf array This is a simpler subset of the challenge Don't touch the walls! suggested by Jonah. Given a multi-dimensional rectangular array of integers between 0 and 9, output all the elements which are "touching the edges". Output is very flexible: it can be in any order, and...

pxeger

14:31

@NewPosts What is the maximum length for a valid path?

Wheat Wizard

That's an interesting question.

There's a recursive way you can build pretty bad paths: [1], [2,1,1,1], [4,1,1,1,2,1,1,1] ... but I'm not sure if these are optimal.

Actually [4,1,1,1,1,1,1,1] is worse than [4,1,1,1,2,1,1,1].

Err, no they're the same.

pxeger

How about [1, 9, 1, 7, 1, 5, 1, 3, 1, 1, 10]?

Wheat Wizard

That seems impossible ... ?

You have to move to the 9 and there's nowhere to go from the 9.

pxeger

oops, you're right

I was working backwards, forgetting that frogs can't time travel

2

@WheatWizard I fixed it to what I actually meant, but it's still impossible

I was trying to construct one so that you have to repeat the same movement over and over again to get anywhere

Wheat Wizard

Whoops, that could be solved in 8 using a different method.

When I have some time I want to do a computer aided search.

Another question: If consider paths in which the frog doesn't get to make a choice. That is at every step there is only one option either left or right and the other would lead out of the pond. For what pond sizes n does there exist a pond where such a path exists?

thejonymyster

14:47

cant you do that for any size

eg [n, n-2, n-4,...n-3,n-1]

or am i bad :P

Wheat Wizard

Uh I mean that gives you zero moves to start so it can't work.

pxeger

eventually on the inside of that list you would get to numbers smaller than n which allow you to move in both directions

thejonymyster

oh uh

Wheat Wizard

But I think you meant 1 less than every element. Which doesn't work for n=4.

pxeger

@WheatWizard I presume they meant [n-1, n-3, n-5, ...n-4, n-2]

thejonymyster

14:49

yea i gooft

Wheat Wizard

[3,1,0,2] When you get to the 1 you have a choice.

thejonymyster

right

hm

Wheat Wizard

However [1,2,0,1] works for n=4.

pxeger

I thought we're not allowing zeroes? although you can just replace 0 with any sufficiently large integer for the same effect

Wheat Wizard

Yeah it doesn't matter whether or not you allow 0.

thejonymyster

14:51

0 is typically shorter to write than [big number] anyway :P

Wheat Wizard

[3,3,0,2,2] works for n=5

And [4,4,4,0,3,3,3] works for n=7, I think you can see a pattern now.

thejonymyster

aha

pxeger

for even n it's just like [5, 5, 5, 5, 4, 4, 4, 4] right?

thejonymyster

thats an even n :P

and no, that misses the first 4, youre missing the 0

pxeger

that's WW's fault for saying n=6 with a list of length 7 ;)

thejonymyster

14:56

aha

:P i was bamboozled

but you do miss the first 4, which is worrisome

Wheat Wizard

Yeah.

I think if you make it all 4s it works though.

Oh no obviously not.

Hm yeah that's hard.

I don't think there's an easy way to make the odd strategy work for evens.

thejonymyster

maybe prepend a 1 :P

i think that doesnt work though

also one could argue that the odd solutions dont work, since you dont have 1 choice at the end

but i am not so pedantic

pxeger

can you make one where you do have 1 choice at the end (which would have to bring you back to somewhere you've already been)

thejonymyster

no, youd have to argue that the center spot could be n away from exactly one lilypad

which it isnt, by nature of being the center

Wheat Wizard

@thejonymyster No it works.

thejonymyster

15:05

oh yayy

Wheat Wizard

In fact the solution I found for n=4 is exactly that.

thejonymyster

oh yea lol

so n=6 is [1,3,3,0,2,2]?

looks like it, hooray

oh, yea and since its even, it does work in the way i described as like

[1,3,3,3,2,2] like what pxeger was saying with the 5s and 4s

PyGamer0

weird goal for future me: when Wellscripted is done, implement flax in it :P

Seggan

CMP: what are the most important elements for a golflang

PyGamer0

interesting question...

pxeger

15:11

@pxeger not just me, Arnauld too ;)

@Seggan silicon

PyGamer0

well i guess basic arithmetic, base conversion, common stuff like halfing doubling squaring etc. ...

@Seggan and i believe Fig supports lists?

if so common list operations like head, tail, append, concat, ...

and you need a way to recurse or iterate to make it TC

dont forget IO lol

Seggan

@PyGamer0 yep. its a must for functional langs

pxeger

it doesn't actually need to be TC

PyGamer0

@pxeger o-o

Seggan

@pxeger its supposed to be actually competitive so yeah TC is perferred

pxeger

15:15

If you performed the minimal removal of TC stuff from Jelly, its builtins would still make it very useful for most challenges

How often have you used any kind of explicit looping in a modern TC golfing language?

thejonymyster

given any type / combination of types youd expect input, a good way to handle them

PyGamer0

@Seggan oh functional... guess add some fp combinators (like husk), and add good amounts of high order stuffs

Seggan

fp combinators?

PyGamer0

i meant combinators

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Combinatory_logic

pxeger

@Seggan fp = functional programming

Seggan

15:18

@pxeger mapping is a form of looping

@pxeger ah

Wheat Wizard

Mapping doesn't have to be looping.

pxeger

but mapping alone doesn't make a language TC

PyGamer0

@pxeger (there i meant fixed point, \o/)

Wheat Wizard

It can for example just allocate some thunk to be evaled on demand.

PyGamer0

S           # Hook: S fgx means f x(gx)
 =          # are they equal:
            # x (implied by S)
            # and
  u         # unique elements of x
   d        # when x is the decimal digits of the input

S there is the S combinator..

Wheat Wizard

15:21

S isn't a fixed point combinator.

PyGamer0

yeah..

3 mins ago, by PyGamer0

i meant combinators

mathcat

15:39

Final Feedback for my koth?

Sandbox Posts

0

A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

Push some numbers Given a list of integers, apply the following rules to each element: If n is even, move it to the back. If n is odd, move it to the front. Zero can be considered even or can be removed. Test cases [1,2,3] => [3, 1, 2] [0,1,2] => [1,0,2] or [1,2] (more test cases coming soon) ...

Bgil Midol

Feedback?

Radvylf Programs

@NobodyNeedsNames A bot Ginger made that runs code for you

@NobodyNeedsNames I wouldn't worry about those too much, Grammarly (and everything else) is pretty bad at style checking

Follow spelling/grammar suggestions it gives you, but there's like 50/50 odds the style suggestions will make your writing worse from what I've seen

PyGamer0

15:57

@Seggan also dont forget the amogus :P

mathcat

@Seggan eval too

thejonymyster

How many times has the retina 0 byte program been used as a solution / part of a solution? i've searched Retina 0 on cgcc but is there anything i can add to narrow the search?

pxeger

I searched for "Retina, 0 bytes" and got 3 results: codegolf.stackexchange.com/a/107333, codegolf.stackexchange.com/a/235581, codegolf.stackexchange.com/a/239761

Radvylf Programs

I could check the parsed answer data I have

Seggan

@PyGamer0 cS coming soon to your nearest Fig :P

Radvylf Programs

16:04

I don't have any Retina answers that are 0 bytes, actually (old data though)

Oh, because all three pxeger found are in tags excluded by the ranking script

thejonymyster

theres also this, not sure how youd account for that though

Radvylf Programs

Ones with math operations in the byte counts are ignored, since they're assumed to be bonuses or unconventional scoring methods

thejonymyster

i guess what we should be searching for is backticks followed by newline followed by backticks :P

Radvylf Programs

Or one of the three other (and better) ways of doing code blocks lol

(Although SEDE gives you the parsed HTML by default, which is easier to work with)

pxeger

@RadvylfPrograms Why are the others better?

Radvylf Programs

16:12

Backticks are ugly and yellow :p

pxeger

Especially, what can possibly be the difference between ~~~¶~~~ and ```¶```?

oh

Radvylf Programs

And also, automatically adding code fences in online interpreters is hard

@pxeger make it four then, didn't know about ~~~

caird coinheringaahing

<pre><code>...</code></pre> is superior

pxeger

@RadvylfPrograms what's your third then?

Radvylf Programs

First place is four leading spaces, second is <pre><code>, third is code fencing

pxeger

16:13

> three other

Radvylf Programs

Oh oops lol

Off-by-one smh

And AoC isn't for another six months so this isn't a good sign

pxeger

I love offf-by-one errors!

Radvylf Programs

My zeroth favorite kind

pxeger

CMQ: what goes in the top left cell^?

caird coinheringaahing

Brainfuck

Or Jelly :P

pxeger

16:19

I think those are disqualified, because they can't write web apps

caird coinheringaahing

They can, if you try hard enough :P

pxeger

Well, you can write web apps in Jelly using ŒV, but then you're just writing Python

mathcat

Taxi

you can write web apps with taxi

caird coinheringaahing

Javascript :P

Tbh, I'd put PHP in top left, then JS in top right

hyper-neutrino

approachable and hard to use aren't mutually exclusive though, a language can be approachable and then after you start using it you realize it's harder to use than you thought :P

pxeger

16:29

PHP's learning curve is like this:

4

Radvylf Programs

I don't think I agree with that

thejonymyster

i wouldnt know but its very fun to look at

Radvylf Programs

PHP provides lots of stuff that makes security semi-convenient, it's hard-to-notice somewhat hidden issues that are the problem

pxeger

What I mean is that PHP is very insecure by default, in that the most obvious option almost always entails a bug

Radvylf Programs

And what makes PHP hard to use is the completely awful built-in functions (the order of the args is basically random) IMO

pxeger

16:39

Once you realise that and start to work around it, you're ok

Radvylf Programs

But I think that tends to be kind of gradual

There's not a sudden "oh I need to make this secure" that you need to struggle through

You just kinda realize "oh no I did this wrong, whoops"

And keep doing that

DLosc

@Neil Looks like you're right, it's 840 (cc @mathcat)

mathcat

wow I was too incompetent to code that

DLosc

When the math is too hard to wrap your head around, brute-force it. That's what I say. :P

thejonymyster

@RadvylfPrograms do you still have the language score / popularity chart thingy thing

Radvylf Programs

16:45

The rankings list?

thejonymyster

that thing yea

Radvylf Programs

Yeah, keep in mind that it's missing a lot of languages and very incomplete

Lemme find the gist

thejonymyster

thats ok its just i clicked on a link i thought would be it but it was all like "bro thats a four oh four"

it said that to me

Radvylf Programs

Change the RedwolfPrograms to Radvylf

That should fix it

thejonymyster

ah right

hoo-ray :)

Radvylf Programs

16:47

Ceave Gaming reference?

thejonymyster

indeed :P i love saying it like that lol

so the link i found said its "secret" is that normal

Radvylf Programs

Yeah that just means it's not listed publically on my account, which IIRC is the default

thejonymyster

ah ok

radvylfsecrets

thejonymyster

17:01

do you still plan on updating it yearly :P

Radvylf Programs

I'm planning on updating it weekly

mathcat

with a script?

Radvylf Programs

No, it needs to be done manually for the deduping steps

But it keeps track of your previous choices so it should only take a bit of cleaning up to account for new languages every once and a while

Maybe monthly is more reasonable to avoid spamming the front page of meta though

mathcat

yeah probably

thejonymyster

@RadvylfPrograms choices?

pxeger

17:18

VTD?

Radvylf Programs

@thejonymyster On how possible duplicates should be handled, what operations need to be performed in order to clean up the list, etc.

thejonymyster

ah, makes sense

its just when i hear "remember your choices" i think of telltale games :P

Speed up, slowpoke!

Speed up, slowpoke!

Transcript for