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1:56 AM
room topic changed to talk.tryitonline.net: For general discussion and feature requests regarding tryitonline.net. (no tags)
Waiting for someone to create an esolang called talk.
 
So yeah, I was sort of wondering how you were talking about logs
Which ones are good to keep tabs on?
 
Mostly, they not really something to worry about. I was going through the logs since my code had bugs and found the authorization attempts by accident.
 
Hmm I'm just sorta surprised you were getting attempts
But botnets I guess... Or something
 
If you have SELinux, audit.log shows all unauthorized attempts to do anything (log in, access a file, etc.). If not, auth.log is your friend.
@Sp3000 Nobody knows about the new server yet, so it can't be a directed attack. With only 2³² IP addresses, searching for ones that have port 22 open is easy.
 
Ah k :) I see
 
2:03 AM
Thanks to SELinux, the new server should be a lot more secure than the old one.
 
Will have to check out SELinux, thanks
 
I'm surprised so few distros have these security measures activated by default.
It's a big headache to get working, but when it does, it gives you very fine-grained control regarding what action can or cannot be performed in a certain context.
Some other distros have AppArmor which is supposedly easier to use. Haven't tried it though.
 
Ah nice
So what happens on TIO if too many people use it at once?
Do the later requests just die
 
Once it runs out of memory, the OOM killer will randomly terminate processes to keep the server functional.
 
Is that an SELinux feature?
 
2:14 AM
No, that's part of the vanilla Linux kernel.
 
Ah k
 
SELinux "only" does permissions.
I like how every time I google something about SELinux, at least one answer/comment suggests turning it off.
 
o_O
 
Have lost a bit of rep on SO and SF because of those answers.
> This is caused by SELinux. Use setenforce 0 to disable it.
 
As in you have or are you downvoting those answers?
 
2:23 AM
I downvoted them.
 
Ah :)
 
6
A: Apache: access denied because search permissions are missing

SopranoYou might have selinux enabled. Try getenforce If it shows "Enforcing", try setenforce 0 and try if this fixes your issue.

 
o_O
 
Also, this gem. Technically correct, but it took a new user to give the correct answer.
 
2:51 AM
Hmm did you decide what to do with auth in the end?
 
I'll just leave it alone. Password authentication is disallowed by default on Fedora, and cracking a private key should be impossible.
 
Oh, I meant TIO auth sorry
From the strawpoll
 
Ah...
It's 10 : 8 for Google right now.
I like the idea of a dedicated account more, but it will also be a lot of work. Password recovery is especially painful.
 
3:21 AM
Personally I voted for dedicated because I don't like linking everything everywhere, but that just might be me
 
Yeah, I figured more people would be uncomfortable with setting up a TIO account than using Google Sign-In.
 
3:34 AM
Hey guys!
Wondering if you'll add J support, @Dennis?
 
With version 2, I might. TIO currently has only one production language (Julia) since it doesn't have a good sandbox.
 
What about in-browser running?
JS
Even Python has a JS interpreter.
Just figure out a way to make it really fast
If it isn't already.
Then, you could move hosting to GitHub Pages
Domain could maybe be shorter "try.tk" (check if this one is free, not all .tk domains are)
Keep the old domain for redirects
So that old links don't break.
 
I think the domain is fine tbh, no need to shorten
Also the Python JS interpreter is very different and harder to keep up to date/add libraries
 
Maybe use RawGit CDN?
RawGit is a free GitHub CDN powered by MaxCDN. connect python JS interpreter through it
and then set it up to grab the latest version automatically, if possible.
If not, ask the repo contributors if they could make a "latest" file in the repo.
and all of that hosted on GitHub Pages.
Could be cheaper if you pay for only domain, not hosting too.
Plus, if links have code inside them, then that's kind of "hosting"
Link shortening and hosting the redirects on GitHub may be a bit difficult.
Maybe you could use IS.GD's API and have an auto-copy in a GitHub repo.
If/When IS.GD goes down, people could enter their link on the github repo's test page, and get the full, verbose link.

In fact, I think this is a great idea to archive link shorteners in general.
Kind of like how urlte.am does it.
Although urlte.am is different.
 
3:56 AM
Having server-side interpreters is the whole idea of TIO. It can run a great deal of languages, and adding a new language doesn't usually doesn't require anything but cloning a repo and set up two configuration files. Also, in-browser JavaScript is very slow compared to what you can do with a server.
@Sp3000 There's actually a shorter domain already that I'm using with the new server. It's still secret though.
 
We must know...
 
Eventually.
 
Will the older one redirect to it? To avoid link rot.
 
Both domains will be usable, and the old permalinks will go through a page that points to the equivalent.
 
Will you take care of different encodings too? (eg: Retina)
A Retina link must work exactly the same under both the old and new domain names.
My suggestion: Old links are not redirected. New ones are on the newer domain name.
 
4:00 AM
All data is passed in UTF-8 between the frontend and the backend.
 
Retina is ISO-something, no?
 
Retina supports a variety of encodings. For scoring purposes, ISO-8859-1 is usually chosen, but that doesn't mean that Retina doesn't work with UTF-8.
Also, using UTF-8 for frontend-backend communication doesn't mean the interpreter has to work with that encoding.
 
Yes, but some code-golf answers require ISO-8859-1 for the byte count.
 
That has nothing to do with the online interpreter.
 
So the online interpreter will keep code as it is?
Good.
One thing, if I may ask, what language is the new backend in?
I was wondering if each language in the online interpreter could be run in a JIT rather than converting it to Python or whatever it is.
 
4:05 AM
Still Bash.
 
Wait, so all of them are interpreted in Bash?
I wonder how much faster would a JIT be.
 
No, the backend just calls the interpreter. I don't implement the languages myself.
 
I see.
I find the whole process generally fast enough.
I wonder if self interpreters could be used.
An optimized Pyth interpreter written in Pyth itself would be cool!
Or a chain interpreter: Pyth ---> Golfscript ----> CJam -----> x100
Reminds me of this: github.com/mame/quine-relay
"This is a Ruby program that generates Scala program that generates Scheme program that generates ...(through 100 languages in total)... REXX program that generates the original Ruby code again."
 
@ColdGolf There's no point in doing this. It would be slow.
 
I was joking. I meant it just for fun.
 
4:53 AM
@Dennis btw have you tried promo codes for DO yet?
 
@Sp3000 No, but I put the link on the donation page.
 
Ah k, there seems to be a DROPLET10 promo code if you wanted to try that
 
Oh! That's probably only for new droplets...
 
:/
 
I'm disappointed that this isn't a new language called "talk" :/
 
5:10 AM
@ConorO'Brien or "Language"
 
5:21 AM
Hm, there's an issue I hadn't considered yet. If somebody can edit all of his permalinks, he can "rage quit" can delete everything he posted. That would make the permalinks a lot less permanent...
 
Edit history on the permalinks maybe?
 
5:42 AM
Hi everyone
 
@Sp3000 Then there really is no point in making them editable in the first place...
If I want to prevent rage quits without storing multiple versions, I'd have to establish an edit window, making accounts kinda pointless.
I really have no idea how much space the links would oocupy...
 
@Dennis and what is the problem?
 
5:58 AM
That tons of TIO links on PPCG might suddenly go poof.
 
@Dennis well that is the link owner's choice isn't it
 
Yes and no. You can't simply delete all of your answers on PPCG, for example.
Also, if somebody gains access to your account, he might deface it.
 
That also applies to PPCG:
1. you can delete all of your answers on PPCG right
2. if someone gains access to my PPCG account then I'm dead also
 
No, you can't. Deleting or editing a certain amount of posts in a short time triggers a vandalism flag.
 
@Dennis then make it the same for TIO
 
6:07 AM
That's pretty complicated. I think I'll just go with cookies/local storage and an edit window.
 
You know, in IDEONE I can still delete the program by making it empty
but the link will not be reusable
 
For practical purposes, that's deletion.
 
But the link will not be reusable
so the space is wasted
 
Empty programs don't require a lot of space...
 
I mean the space as in the link cannot be reused
 
6:14 AM
I'm probably overthinking this anyway. Additional storage costs $0.10 per GB per month. If TIO becomes popular enough, I'll hopefully be able to cover that with donations.
 
@Dennis what's the base cost?
 
The server I want to rent costs $20 per month and comes with 40 GB of disk space.
 
so now it's $0.50 per GB per month
 
Sort of. Those $20 include 2 GiB of RAM, two dedicated CPU cores and 3 TB of network transfer.
 
I see
 
6:18 AM
For $10 more, I'd get 100 GB of disk space, which should be enough for more than a few permalinks.
Currently trying to set a size limit for each one.
By trying, I mean trying to decide how large it should be.
 

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