Final Feedback guis?

> guis

Nice challenge! I'll make an answer when I've time.

Also, @des54321, I am quite sure that was a typo for guys.

nah

Is it a stylistic choice to use guis?

I'm pretty sure that was a typo for "yes".

Oh, that makes sense.

no u

My art is not being appreciated

@Ginger looks pretty good, I'd say you could do with making it clearer early in the post that your program is using a single constant character to draw the lines? ie something like "while the canvas operator uses inputted strings to draw lines, your program will simply use a single character, such as #"

so my MYAL proposal has been really popular, 13 upvotes 0 downvotes in slightly more than a day, and lyxals answer has gotten 8 upvotes in 6 hours, when is a proposal considered "accepted"?

@des54321 ah okay, thanks

@Seggan there isn't really a rule or standard for what counts as "accepted", but 15/0 and 10/0 (i just voted) this quickly is pretty clearly community approval so we just need to sort out details (basically just pick a time) and schedule/execute it lol

i'll give it another day or so but i don't really think it's possible that it will suddenly become disapproved of; i think it's a great idea personally as well

yeah I'm very much on board with the MYAL proposal. Might finally be the kick in the ass I need to finish building Horizon's compiler

and as much as I enjoy golfing, creating new languages has always been my favourite aspect of CGSE

^

I'll add the source ofc

@Seggan I'd give it another day or so, just in case someone does post a dissenting opinion (however unlikely). But after that, we can add it to the room schedule (I'm guessing replacing the BMG time slot), and you can write up an announcement meta post with the relevant details in it

@cairdcoinheringaahing I'd suggest making MYAL a longer event than the 1-hour BMG's time slot though

My main questions would be: how long would it last (24hrs, like LYAL?), when would it be (replacing BMG?) and what would the event's "format" be (the biggest thing)?

Actually, it might be worth making a follow up meta post asking for input on those things, before we go ahead and add it

meta post discussing format is definitely a good idea, I feel like I have a few ideas to table myself

@cairdcoinheringaahing yeah, i was planning to do exactly that

@Seggan Nice :P I'm too used to the last two, where in the "Should we do this?" post, the answers just said "Yes, and here's how" :P

Example

what is MYAL?

Make You a Lang for Great Good, temporary(?) name for a proposed chat event

See the pinned link; the name for a proposed chat event

ah I see

sounds interesting

@des54321 nice pfp colors ;)

@Seggan ʸᵒᵘ ᶜᵃⁿ ⁿᵃᵐᵉ ᶦᵗ ˢᵉᵍᵍᵃⁿˢ⁻ᵐᵃᵏᵉ⁻ʸᵒᵘ⁻ᵃ⁻ˡᵃⁿᵍ⁻ᶠᵒʳ⁻ᵍʳᵉᵃᵗ⁻ᵍᵒᵒᵈ ᵃⁿᵈ ʸᵒᵘʳ ⁿᵃᵐᵉ ʷᶦˡˡ ᵇᵉ ᵇᵘʳⁿᵉᵈ ᵒⁿ ᵗʰᵉ ˢᶦᵗᵉ ᶠᵒʳᵉᵛᵉʳ

I mean, the ROs are the ones who can set the "official" name of the event in the room schedule :P

I've been playing a large number of board games recently, and have so many ideas for KoTHs. But, so many of them are super complicated games (at least, complicated for a KoTH) :P

@PyGamer0 very readable and cool

@cairdcoinheringaahing me every single time I think of a KoTH

"Oo this'd be a cool KoTH! Lemme flesh this idea out a bit" 5 minutes later "Uh... this is StarCraft..."

You know what would be a good KoTH? The Campaign for North Africa :P

Seggan's Make You A Lang = SMYAL (pronounced "SMILE")

i like MYAL because it is 1 char away from MYXAL :P

An amazon recruiter just emailed me... they tried to draw me in with a picture of their dog :|

@cairdcoinheringaahing I presume you mean the board game, not the actual series of events in WWII

not that they're even all that different

@Seggan I don't think lyxal's ego needs any more stroking than it already gets :D

@pxeger WWI but yes, the board game :P

Just finished playing a game of Dune, and immediately started going "How to KoTH?" before stopping myself, as it'd be a bit too complex IMO

@Mayube nah, my Myxal lang im working on

@cairdcoinheringaahing from en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Campaign_for_North_Africa:

> The Campaign for North Africa [...] simulates the entire North African Campaign of World War II.

Huh

has anyone done a checkers koth, because otherwise i call it

@cairdcoinheringaahing gotta look at which side Italy's on :P

almost definitely

@Mayube All I know about Italy in the game is that you have to have more water rations because you boil pasta :P

@cairdcoinheringaahing wait for real?

do the brits also need more water rations?

for tea? lol

@Mayube Pretty sure

I know that Britain loses more gasoline than other countries, because their gas cans lost more gas to evaporation than the others :P

I'd have guessed not, because most tea-drinkers would just drink less plain water on average which balances it out

@pxeger Yes. British tanks even had water heaters in them for tea and bovril

CMQ: I'm going to try to program evolution from scratch, in which language should I program it? (it should have easy GUI + maths stuff)

> each turn, every unit loses 3% of its fuel due to evaporation, except for British units, which lose 7% because historically they used 50-gallon drums instead of jerry cans

@mathcat you just said yourself; Scratch

@cairdcoinheringaahing I appreciate the historical accuracy

@mathcat rocks

:facepalm:

I also love the fact that the game wasn't fully playtested before release, as it took them too long :P

thanks for the awesome suggestions guis

@mathcat smalltalk is fun

@mathcat python :P

Or brainfuck

@thejonymyster This is now my religious belief. We exist in a universe simulated in a rock-based computer built by Randall Munroe

@cairdcoinheringaahing I've never actually used brackfck's GUI

it must be good

@Wezl'lo-ol' full blown java

is not fun

@Seggan can you have partially-blown java?

@pxeger yeah, it's called C#

@mathcat As in the potatto one?

they already blew it, there is no more blowing to be done

@RadvylfPrograms yes

@Mayube this

is

TNB

@mathcat Sure. Pretty sure the potatto itself was public domain or CC0 or something, and I don't care whatsoever what anyone does with anything I make :p

@Mayube you're not wrong :P

thx

@mathcat JS isn't a bad choice

@cairdcoinheringaahing I'm never wrong

@mathcat excel

hmm okay, Python, JS, Rocks, Scratch or Excel

It doesn't have much math stuff built-in, but there's plenty of libraries I'm sure (and I'm sure you wouldn't need much math for evolution sim stuff), and you can make it an html page to show it to people

It's also pretty performant, and has canvas built-in

nice

if C# is partially-blown Java, is TypeScript partially-blown JavaScript?

@mathcat ... can't forget smalltalk 🐈

more like JavaScript is partially-blown TypeScript

@Wezl'lo-ol' Oh wait Smalltalk's a language?

yes

@mathcat no, it's a kind of pomegranate

Wasn't smalltalk the first language to have "classes"?

yeah

what

I thought it was C

C doesn't have classes

@Ginger I like pomegranetes

c never had oo design

oh ok

C++ introduced classes, and it got the idea from smalltalk

yeah it's almost C see

@Mayube I'm still kicking around vague ideas about how to make a KotH based on (a vastly simplified version of) the combat system in Civilization 5

@Seggan IIRC Checkers doesn't have much depth as a game for bots

@DLosc not much of a civ fan, there are better 4x games. How does combat in Civ 5 work?

I am amused by the fact that the backslash apparently is also known as a "hack, whack, escape, reverse slash, slosh, downwhack, backslant, backwhack, bash, reverse slant, and reversed virgule" (Wikipedia)

if you know anyone who calls a backslash a downwhack then you should stop knowing them ASAP

That's not a list of names btw, some people just call it a "hack, whack, escape, reverse slash, slosh, downwhack, backslant, backwhack, bash, reverse slant, and reversed virgule"

I shall from now on exclusively refer to `\` as a "slosh"

tfw I didn't escape my own slosh

Uh oh someone just tried to code-format a backslash in chat, everybody run

PANIC

*presses red button*

@Mayube copy and paste: `\​`

it contains a zero-width space, which will fix your problem

@RadvylfPrograms No I didn't, it was a slosh

@pxeger I'm not gunna remember that the next time I need a slosh

you only need a zwsp if you want to put it before a `

including at the end of a code block

we're talking a lot about slosh here and not enough about virgule

To type \, enter ``\``.

\

@des54321 um actually it's a reversed virgule

(added this to the chat command userscript like /-strike in case I need to paste that again :P)

please go to the sandbox if you want to do any more formatting testing

@Mayube Basic rundown: Civ 5 uses hex tiles; only one unit can be on each tile. Each unit can move and/or attack on each turn. There are ranged units and melee units. Ranged attacks damage only the target, while melee attacks damage both units. Each unit has a combat strength; the relative combat strength of the two units, plus modifiers such as spears having a bonus against horses, determines how much damage the units take.

Civ 5 also has all sorts of things like politics and religion and famous people and all sorts of complicated mechanics

maybe some of them are only in DLCs actually, I'm not sure

For further game discussion

@DLosc oh that's pretty much the same as Civ6

which I also don't play much, but have played more recently than 5

anyway it's quittin' time, so I shall see you folks on Tuesday o/

civ6 allows more than one unit per tile in cities, or something like that, doesn't it?

\o

o/

@Mayube Yeah, it's pretty similar. The reason why I wanted to make it a KotH is that the Civ 5 AI is notoriously bad at managing its units, so I thought it could make an interesting challenge.

@pxeger Come to the dark side CG&CC gaming room

oh yeah we do have a gaming room i should hang out in there more

Has anyone ever seen it called CG&CC before, other than the gaming room?

(or PP&CG for that matter)

In some alternate universe the site was called CGCG (short for "Code Golf and Code Golf") but we got bored and changed it to PPCC (short for "Programming Puzzles and Coding Challenges")

 CG
+CC

^

is division and all hyperoperations beyond them the only operators that can yield infinite numbers?

As in, operations whose limits can approach infinity?

Dividing by zero isn't actually infinity (except if you're a floating point fanboy like me)

@Seggan Addition of an infinite number of integers?

Or wait are we talking about floating point/programming languages here

In which case exponentiation can return infinity:

why the flyp

computers are dumb

huh thats actually an error in python

(Although with floating point basically any operation can return infinity if you give it two really big numbers)

@RadvylfPrograms no, as in 1 / 3 yielding infinite number and sqrt(2) as well

@des54321 Try it with floats

i am working with arbitrary size numbers

thats why i cant have anything infinite without specifying a precision

Ohhh

@Seggan Those would be irrational numbers, plus rational ones with a denominator with a denominator that has factors other than 2 and 5

@des54321 Seems like Python has some (semi-reasonable) restrictions on dividing by zero and similar operations then

wait only 2 and 5 generate finite numbers?

Or the product of any combination of them

So 2, 4, 5, 8, 10, 16, 20, 25, ...

yeah

But if the number of digits in base 10 matters, you're probably doing things in a weird way

@des54321 Yeah, Python makes anything that divides by zero into an error, despite the fact that it does support floating-point infinity (try float("inf")). It's probably better for most practical purposes, but from a mathematical standpoint it's a bit annoying.

Rationals would make more sense than what sounds like fixed point with powers of 10 as denominators

@RadvylfPrograms java's BigDecimal

@RadvylfPrograms i dont feel like coding rationals all by myself and then using that for complex numbers lol

Sounds gross, but then again it's Java

@Seggan Do you have a guarantee that all inputs to the operator have a finite number of digits? If so, +, -, *, and % will all work, / and ** (including roots) won't, same with logarithms

@RadvylfPrograms We should've followed the Babylonians and used base 60 :P

That just hides the problem :p

@RadvylfPrograms yes

rn only division is behind a MathContext wall

@DLosc i would like 6W2k gallons of coffee, thanks

@Seggan I have 0 gallons of coffee available :P

why the hell are you people measuring coffee in gallons youre going to have a heart attack if you drink that much coffee

Maybe they're going to bring the hudson river to a boil and make lots of coffee for lots of people

that coffee would probably be uncomfortably salty, the hudson river is brackish water

i live about 800 miles from the hudson river

id rather do it to the mississippi

I live near the Missouri, but I wouldn't want to make coffee from it

Yeah, coffee made from states tend to taste very earthy :P

(Yes, I know the missouri is also a river :P)

I live in Missouri, but I don't live in the Missouri :P

[citation-needed]

rofl

Citation: Ask the US Postal Service, they'll tell you I live at [ADDRESS REDACTED]

The US Postal Service doesn't know everything

Maybe you gave them a different address from your real one

To evade taxes on your houseboat or something

whew calculating the natural logarithm of a BigDecimal takes 273 lines of code

Why's that?

taylor expansions for e^x, newtons method for the actual log itself

Ah

i thought computers were good at math lol

@Seggan What about something like (str(a).length + log_10(a % 10 ** a.length)) / log_10(e)

Lazy and a bit cheaty but it shoulldd work

@emanresuA still would have to calculate log10

Yeah, but on an int < 10

also, how does that work

@Seggan why not just do the taylor expansion of log?

because i randomly copied some code online :P

done a bit myself glued together with the BigMath source

I always forget just how long KoTH specs can be :/

CMQ: What should I name my robot?

I can get a photo if needed

Perhaps 4A, after the golfing language J (0x4A is the charcode for J)?

hmm

Also phonetically similar to foray.

Is 7 arguments too many for a Koth bot (i.e., you take these 7 bits of info)?

sounds like a lot of information

It's ^ that challenge btw