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00:00 - 21:0021:00 - 00:00

00:11
Well, my language ranking program has decided to merge all of the languages into one due to a bug in the deduplication stage
So I guess we're all using q/kdb+ from now on
00:44
It'll be fast.
01:27
Sweet, will all my Python and Vyxal and Scala code be automatically translated to q?
 
2 hours later…
03:00
Oh yay, nothing like opening up your gmail to find 17 spam emails from colleges in the last day
Would y'all consider Brachylog v2 to be a subset/variant of Brachylog, or are they different enough to be separate languages?
They're very different
So far, just the parsing and language deduplication in my ranking program is nearly 1k sloc lol
i finally see a ccgc ad in ccgc lol
it’s in browser language bar
03:25
@Niko What do you mean?
in-browser language bar is the ad content
i still don't understand
@cairdcoinheringaahing yes
yeah but why?
04:21
CMP: Should Metaverse be OSS?
@user let me guess, xkcd?
 
1 hour later…
05:42
@RedwolfPrograms they're clearly related and that's about it
i haven't actually spent enough time with brachylog v1 to get a really good feel for it but it's got some big differences in various aspects of its design
not sure how many of the differences can just be chalked up to without versus with sbcs though; i vaguely recall there's an even stronger reliance on pairs and such due to not having a concept of a subscript, and come to think of it i'm not sure i've actually figured out how it does metapredicates at all
also worth noting that a ton of symbols got reassigned even within ascii
,; did what ∧∨ do (echoing their functions in prolog), but now they perform list-building operations of which i think one was performed by the now completely-unassigned : but i can't find it in the wiki's edit history
okay looks like : was ,
06:06
CMQ: Guess who's that ^?
@user why did you hide the star board?
i always star all messages on the star board, because stars are supposed to be yellow, not black
@PyGamer0 is this picture current?
@user hey wait a minute... vyxals ?!
I knew you were making knockoff golfing languages but a whole folder of them?
This is so sad
Can I get 50 likes?
2
@PyGamer0 you
No one from CHQ is in both vyxal and flax except me and you
And I've never even heard of the non-apl orchard
Also there's a tiny snippet of that room name in the picture too
yeah the ss must've been taken just for this ss, or it was edited
i can only think of a handful of users who would know what the non-apl orchard is, that would be in flax, and none of them would be in maid cafe and japanese language
in fact japanese language and maid cafe currently (and usually) has an intersection of exactly one user
06:23
For me it was the overlap between charcoal, vyxal and flax that gave it away
The intersection of chq and Vyxal is already at most 3 users
(you, me and obviously pygamer)
Add flax into the mix and you've limited it down to me and pygamer
And seeing as how I'd never touch the maid cafe, it's pygamer
ah
i happen to know that i have never seen anyone in both maid cafe and japanese before :P and since i know that's not me, it must be a trick question
@hyper-neutrino no
@lyxal lol yes
@hyper-neutrino lol you have made me visit Maid Café twice
lets make it thrice :p
@PyGamer0 wait what how so :p
first time you mentioned it and i joined the room and this was the second time
both times, i clicked on your profile and went to the Café from there lol
Maid Café is a weird place, so I left
06:50
Birds:

❌ Are stupid
❌ Can't run Doom
❌ Exist in nature
❌ Not Turing complete
❌ Poop on cars

Computers:

✅ Very smart
✅ Millions of games available including Doom
✅ Used in the comfort of home
✅ Can run brainfrick
✅ Do not poop on cars
Henceforth, I petition that birds should made illegal
As they do not make me happy
That concludes my TED talk
07:41
lol
 
1 hour later…
08:43
@DLosc …that’s an even worse choice than mine :p
CMQ: What would you call a built-in that adds a leading axis. E.g. [1,2,3][[1,2,3]]?
@Adám What should it do on e.g. [[1,2],[3,4]]?
[[[1,2],[3,4]]]
In brachylog it’s called "group - g"
Huh, what's the reasoning?
08:51
Well you’re grouping everything in the input into a list
Listify? Bracketify?
I'd call it wrap
Nest?
it's just x=>[x]?
Don’t tell me APL doesn’t have a named built-in for that
@hyper-neutrino Yes and no. When written as JS, yes, but APL has multi-dimensional arrays, so it doesn't exactly map.
08:53
right - sorry, i meant ignoring the apl distinction between depth and rank
or whatever they were called
"Dive" because you’re increasing the depth of the array
@Fatalize Two APL derivatives do, but their names are not good, imo. "Itemize" and "Solo".
From those names I would instinctively guess they do the opposite of what you said…
Basically, if you have a C array you can index with a[i][j] this would make all the elements of a addressable with a[0][i][j]
@Fatalize ikr
I was thinking "Stack" might work.
Because it conceptually initiates a stack of sub-arrays, initially having a single layer; the argument.
But stack is such an overloaded word though
08:59
K uses "enlist" but monadic already uses that
"singleton" is a name
is this increasing the depth or rank?
Rank.
is the name "enclose" used
adding a leading axis implies rank
Yes, enclose means increasing the depth.
09:00
yep, enclose is used by ⊂
@Adám "Promote" then :p
Nest is also used (with the same meaning).
@Fatalize i was going to suggest exactly that :P
@Fatalize That's not terrible, actually.
@hyper-neutrino Great minds something something
and demote for the inverse
09:02
@Adám wrap
@Fatalize That doesn't need a primitive, as any first-axis reduction will do.
@lyxal I see, but again, this sounds like increasing depth to me.
@Adám but…but… built-ins for everything though
APL is not a golfing language.
I’m truly back on CGSE when I read this
i doubt you'd hear "golfing language" outside of here
"unreadable", surely, but not "golfing language"
09:08
Wouldn’t hear "APL" either to be fair :p
09:58
CMP: Should the scan of a ragged list scan (\x _->x+1) 0 [1,3,8,[2,9,7,5,],8,[3,[6]],2] look like: [1,2,3,[4,5,6,7,],5,[6,[7]],7] or like: [1,2,3,[4,5,6,7],8,[9,[10]],2]? The first one branches when it encounters nesting treating the list as a tree while the second completely scans the substructure before continuing the main scan treating it as a list with extra parentheses.
i wouldnt say i messed up my langiage project, but in reality i did mess up my language project
@Adám Either pure or return. It's the identity preserving map of the functor.
eh?
If you have a monoid on something and you make an array of that something, then this operation preserves the identity on the lifted monoid.
Where the monoid operation itself is lifted to the cartesian product.
Looks like English, but it isn't English. Haskenglish?
OK, sorry for asking. I'll go cook porridge instead.
I think it's a nice way to think about arrays.
Not the only nice way but one.
apparently the power cut will end in 1½ hours, and its been 4 hours already
10:25
0
Q: Add the necessary(!) parentheses

xiver77People like too much to simplify things. When you have this expression, 1 + 2 * 3 How would you know whether the answer is 7 or 9? It should be made clear by adding parentheses. 1 + (2 * 3) Even with something like this. 1 + 2 + 3 It doesn't matter whether it's evaluated (1 + 2) + 3 or 1 + (2 ...

10:44
@NewPosts simple, use APL, don't care about operator precedence :P
11:13
12
Q: Make every other vowel uppercase

U12-ForwardGiven a lower case string. Ex: s = 'abcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyz' The goal is to make every other vowel uppercase. Desired output here: abcdEfghijklmnOpqrstuvwxyz As you can see, from aeiou, \$`e`\$ and \$`o`\$ get uppercased. For aeiou, the desired output is: aEiOu There are only lowercase char...

11:42
I can't find a challenge to play tic tac toe optimally. It must be there but I can't see it. Anyone know where it is?
12:04
@user how did the parent torturing go?
12:46
@Anush The closest I could find was codegolf.stackexchange.com/q/152064/78410
13:44
in Winter Bash 2021, 1 hour ago, by CDJB
@YaakovEllis ask a question without the letter 'E' in the title, right?
...I don't know how I feel about that being the trigger for E-pic :P
I personally love it
I encourage this behavior
In fact, let's replace the letter e entirely
Or at least move it such that it's not used in hexadecimal
13:57
@Bubbler me too. I wonder why there is no challenge to play optimally.
14:25
It would probably be an interesting challenge too, since it's either essentially a kolmo/compression challenge if you hardcode the optimal moves, or a challenge to write a Tic-Tac-Toe optimizer, and it's tough to say which approach would actually be golfier
Oh wow, I returned to school after a two week break and the wi-fi isn't totally broken?
Wow, they must have executed their whole IT department and hired people who actually know things
did they hire you :P
No, if I worked for my school's IT department I'd accidentally commit arson
15:11
@PyGamer0 No, the Oatmeal
@lyxal It did not go :(
My parents were like "You watch Twilight if you want, we're not going to see a scary vampire movie"
@PyGamer0 So y'all wouldn't judge me for my taste in messages :P
I know, I know
If you consider bad acting scary, then I guess :P
My mom would probably love it unironically, honestly
@lyxal lol it was meant to by VyxalS (Vyxal implementation in Scala) but I was too lazy to capitalize
Me and my sister reference "Kristen Stewart just spends 2 hours making breathy noises" to each other from time to time :P
15:22
twilight is brilliant
perfect series of 5 movies
15:34
Best of 2021 might actually be competitive in the categories. We've got 16 already, and it's only been 2 days
Alternatively, more volunteers for bounties would be very much appreciated :)
6
I voted on all of them lol
15:53
i think i have an idea for an array ∘ functional language
similar to J
f =: to_num:" ' ' (~: partition: r:) fread: 'data.txt'
just use nial lol
16:24
I thought it was dead, looks like it's still here: github.com/danlm/qnial7
Searching for information on a programming language called MY is not easy
Okay found it
I had to go into the parsing debugger on my language ranking system, find the IDs of answers that used it, and then go to them and find the links in the header
16:49
Is Visual C# Compiler the same as Visual C# Interactive Compiler?
I thought C# interactive was a REPL?
17:06
Hi, I have a question: what is the usual method for calculating byte count (outside of tio)? I see a lot of answers from golfing languages such as Vyxal and Osabie that use 2 byte or 3 byte chars but count them as 1 byte (The method I use is open a node repl and do new TextEncoder().encode("œO").length //3 for example
@user nial is not dead
well, barely anyone uses it(4 that i know of) but somehow the project is still maintained
probably due to univ funding
@Komali For SBCS languages, every character is 1 byte if UTF-8 isn't being used
SBCS?
Single Byte Character Set
i.e., languages with a custom "code page" to allow use of all 256 bytes as characters
Neat! So if I were to make a language that uses said bytes I could classify it as one of these languages?
17:11
Yep
What about string compression? If I were to have the language in normal UTF-8 but compressed strings in 255/256 would that count?
For example, the byte 0xA4 usually encodes the character ¤ (in UTF-8). But, in a language such as Jelly that uses a SBCS, it corresponds to ɲ
@Komali If your code page is ASCII-compatible (so the code points 0x20 to 0x7E map to the same chars), you don't need to worry about that
17:13
if you want sbcs scoring then everything that goes in a program should fit inside that sbcs
I'm confused
ok so what you're doing with an sbcs
is assigning numbers to characters
How do I make something SBCS? In the node repl, typing "\xA4" yields the UTF-8 one
CMC: read a file of SBCS (Jelly encoding) and print it.
0
A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

thejonymysterIs this my output? Decision problem: Is the input one of your output values? Example: if input is "True" or "False", output "True", else output "False"

17:16
@Komali SB stands for single byte. you take each byte of a file, and interpret it as the correct character in your set.
@SandboxPosts off-topic
So (bear with me) we read the file as ascii and match each character to a stored char set?
Help I can't
the idea is that if your interpreter can read a sequence of N bytes and do the expected behavior, then you can say your solution is N bytes
the assigning of characters in a SBCS to those bytes is purely for convenience
How to read SBCS?
Welp
17:23
I think i get it?
Basically, an interpreter just takes some string of bytes and does something with it. An SBCS considers every one of those bytes to be its own character, compared to UTF-8 which treats characters higher than 0x7f differently.
So you could, within strings, interpret those bytes as UTF-8 instead of using your code page if you wanted to
You could even invent your own UTF-8-like encoding
Okay so for example I could read a file as a string, chop it into characters instead of bytes and use that encoding
Not really. The thing is, "string" and "character" are a bit vague
You can't count all 0x10ffff characters in Unicode as one byte, because no encoding could do that. But you can count any 256 characters as one byte, or you could count something like 64 as one byte and 49152 as two bytes, or you could use UTF-8 or UTF-16 or even UTF-32.
Alright then... if I were going to make a language I'd stick to the ones used in osabie and vyxal anyways :P
17:44
Almost all existing SBCS languages just use a typical one-byte-per-character
There are a few half-byte ones, like Risky, HBL, and Nibbles
Although they're not SBCS's then
HBCS maybe?
½BCS :p
A UTF-8 like code page could be cool
Oh wait that's basically just digraphs
I really want to use something like Huffman encoding for an existing golflang to make it shorter, but I tried on Husk and it just made everything longer :(
Half a byte? that sounds like cheating, haha
@RedwolfPrograms But it would, at least, give you the option of using a symbol that makes sense for the builtin rather than whatever digraph you had available.
17:52
I wonder what the optimal encoding for a golflang (in general) would be
@Komali Well, you only get 16 characters to use
@Komali No, you're actually restricting yourself to 4 bits
^^
@DLosc Although picking 256 characters is hard enough already :p
It's almost the opposite of cheating, it makes things tough for the language designer
Yeah I'm joking
17:54
@DLosc We could honestly do this already. Pick a character like outside the codepage and replace all occurrences of some digraph AB with . Totally legal and it'd help with copy pasting maybe
I've tried 6 and 7 bit code pages, problem is, you end up with things like 14-bit programs, so for short programs it does no good, and for long ones the lack of more specific built-ins hurts more than it helps
One idea could be a code page that maps multiple characters to a byte
So it could be all ASCII, but with the golfiness of an SBCS
@Komali The basic rule we've landed on is this: For any program in an SCBS language, you must be able to create an actual file on disc with the claimed byte count that you can pass to your interpreter and it executes the claimed program.
Any program in any language
Which is why fractional byte counts aren't allowed
And why you can't use, e.g., Minecraft or GoL without some way to represent it as bytes
@RedwolfPrograms Well, true. But it doesn't require any thought for most languages, you just count UTF-8 bytes and you're done.
@RedwolfPrograms *invents computer that uses multiples of 6 bits for storage* :P
17:57
You're 40 years late lol
:(
I am restricted by the technology before my time
18:14
@DLosc got it
I found using a hex editor to individually edit the bytes of a program very useful when I was messing about with Orst's 512 character code page
Ooh, you've made a lang with a 9-bit code page?
Abstracts the bytes into numbers, rather than as the ASCII characters
@RedwolfPrograms Not really, it uses a continuation byte 0xFF
Yeah, not as interesting :P
18:19
hex editing does seem like my best option
seems quite easy with the right language
SBCSs are nice, it gives golfing languages that nice "corrupted disk" aesthetic :p
@RedwolfPrograms Fractional byte counts are allowed. You don't even need special hardware.
Oh nice, you can submit 7 bit programs and stuff?
Wait what? Any time I've seen fractional byte counts, the answerer has been told they need to pad it to a full byte
(Aside from like, -20% from bonuses and stuff)
18:38
0
Q: Identify a "reverse checkers" position

double-beepTask A reverse checkers position is a chess position where every piece for one player is on one colour and every piece for the other player is on the other colour. Your task is to find if the given (valid) position meets these criteria. For example, this position does (click for larger images). E...

And our consensus is that bytes are octets, so presumably that implies you can't run your code on a non-octet system and still count it (unless you provide a way to map that code to bytes)
18:55
Okay my laptop just went from 13% to 2% in a single jump
I'm probably going to have to replace it by spring break
And of course I sit in the middle of the classroom so I can't charge it
Well, see y'all in 1.5 hours o/
19:50
@RedwolfPrograms There are at least two ways to do this. 1) You can design a miniature embedded file system to store files in your language that can store files of non-integer byte counts sequentially. 2) Even if programs need padding functions don't, because the relevant score for a function is how much it adds to the program to declare/envoke it.
Neither of these is at all in conflict with the meta consensus, in fact they follow from our consensuses.
These two solutions are arguably actually one solution wearing two different faces.
@WheatWizard Huh. So because all solutions in HBL are inherently functions as well as full programs, I can just start claiming noninteger scores?
I would say yeah. If they are functions then they can be scored by function scoring rules.
This feels like something we need to explicitly discuss on Meta, given that at least Redwolf and I are surprised by it and thought the policy was something else. (Pleasantly surprised, in my case, but still surprised.)
2
20:12
@pxeger It's best if all the bounty amounts for the Best Ofs are the same amount (+500 typically), do you mind if I add a note saying I'm happy to cover the +300 to your bounty to make it +500?
oh ok, or I can just increase mine to +500
I'm just slightly selfish with rep :þ
Sure, if you're happy to do so :)
Now that I finished top of the yearly rep leaderboard, and I've got over 40k, I'm basically happy to offer enough rep to cover anything necessary
Don't you want to beat Jon Skeet? ;)
I would, but that seems too boring, so I've been holding back :P
I mean, you've got to beat Dennis first
and we all know that One Does Not Simply out-rep Dennis
20:30
TFW you get points off on a test for answering "5844 unless you were born between February of 1884 and 1900, in which case it's 5843" to "if you turn 16, how many days have you been alive?"
The "correct" answer was 5840 >:|
@DLosc Would you be fine with me posting a meta question asking for consensus on this?
Jonah's hat is creeping me out: codegolf.stackexchange.com/users/15469/jonah
Especially when you see the smaller version of his profile pic on /active and it looks like he has huge eyes :P
20:51
@RedwolfPrograms Am I just dumb? Because I got 17*356-4=6048 :|
I did 16*365+4
I'm dumb :(
Why did I forget that leap years have one extra day
@RedwolfPrograms don't try to be smart on tests man
Sure, but the answer should've still been 5844
accept that they're almost always somewhat ambiguous, and hope that your interpretation is the marked one
20:53
This is more "be extra dumb on tests man" :P
Yeah, I figured that if they even made it a multiple of 4, they'd accounted for leap years
Or rather "adjust your intelligence according to the grader's" :P
And I just threw in the 1900 bit because I like flexing my knowledge of time/date stuff that won't ever matter because we'll all be dead long before 2300
And because if even Microsoft Excel got it wrong, enough people don't know about the 1900 thing that I feel I need to spread the pain to others
@RedwolfPrograms Whoa, that got dark there
Why specifically 2300?
Because that's when the next leap year is skipped :p
20:56
Oh ok
I hate time so much
Agreed, let's get rid of it and just experience the entirety of the universe at once as a single 4d object
I wish we could turn refashion years, days, hours, minutes, and seconds into reasonable units that didn't require leap years and pretending there are 24 full hours and whatnot
@user "got dark", I kinda want to be dead in 2300
@RedwolfPrograms I mean that's fine too
@user Metric time FTW
20:57
@cairdcoinheringaahing You don't have much of a choice
@RedwolfPrograms YES!!!
Also no more daylight savings and a.m./p.m. nonsense
Honestly, I think we should just stop trying to make our calendars make sense with the sun/moon. Years are like...200 days now. Fricking deal with it.
Military time is confusing to me because I'm not used to it, but it makes so much more sense than having the time be ambiguous unless accompanied by a sign bit
@RedwolfPrograms Let's just not measure years
@user I've trained myself to be more used to it than 12-hour
Who cares when the earth completes a revolution around the sun? Who cares about "months"? /srs
When I was 10 I just decided to set all my clocks to 24-hour, and after a while I just got used to it
20:59
The only downside of this is not having New Year's anymore, or April Fools' :P
April Fools' can still exist
No more months, remember?
It's just whatever day we want
Months are just arbitrary
00:00 - 21:0021:00 - 00:00

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