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00:00 - 10:0010:00 - 00:00

10:03
@Adám Try it online! there
That's much less readable than the Python or JS
i recently got back to learning c++ lol
may not be as idiomatic as what an expert(like the host) would write
Thanks!
@emanresuA the 2| can just be d after the lambda
Because multiplying a function by a number sets the arity of that function to that number
stax cannot physically curry
10:15
I know
Any other mainstream languages I should include besides for Python, JS, and C++?
Scala
ruby pretty much the same as JS, not much change
@lyxal Go for it!
@Razetime Wanna show me?
@Adám java?
10:16
@PyGamer0 Ugh, yes.
@Adám PHP /s
isnt java an esolang though /s
i hate my computer classes
alright just a bit
@emanresuA BF is a good one, i heard the other day
lol
@emanresuA I suppose it could be done. Should it, though…?
10:18
Did you notice the /s?
Yes :-)
I want to see some industrial strength BF. How do y'all write unit tests in BF?
@emanresuA JS: /s/ regex
Should totally ask "How to import modules in BF" on SO.
5
@Adám Daniel Cristofani may unironically have an idea about this
@Adám since its TC its possible /s
10:23
@Razetime That's not so similar. Will include.
Idea: Meta challenge golf, design challenges that are really hard for some langs and really easy for other
@emanresuA Jelly/C: Jelly vectorized addition, increment a value at specific memory address
easy/frick, frick/easy
LOL, my ISP blocks brainfuck.org as not "child safe".
2
10:53
Well, caird just succeeded at this for Vyxal vs basically everything else
11:03
o/, slepp
11:44
I did something very bad today
I screenshotted nfts
Because I live life on the edge /s
12:36
bacc
on
13:03
@Adám Polyglot with Funky 1 & 2!
OK, but I'm looking for mainstream languages.
@Adám what does it do?
@Adám lmao
@grandBagel apl.wiki/Hook – the next episode of arraycast.com is mostly about that.
14:01
Hello all!
Is there an open source graph drawing package that can add the useful line labels on the right like this? twitter.com/ScienceShared/status/1473652731772641280?s=20
That's nice. Gives colour blind people a fighting chance.
I can't imagine how to do it in matplotlib easily/elegantly but maybe it is possible
@Adám that is me! Hence why I am interested
14:05
People (designers, programmers, etc.) tend to underestimate how many people are colour blind. Like 1 out of 15 programmers or so are Red-Green colour blind!
i'm not color/colour blind
Good for you. But remember to keep colour blind people in mind when designing things.
@Adám What?
Whenever you produce graphs, software with warnings, charts, etc. make sure to keep in mind that lots of people cannot clearly distinguish anything in the red-brown-green spectrum.
@Adám hmmm i should put rainbow colored error to make others understand lol.
14:10
:-)
@Adám or raise ERROR INVALID SYNTAXC, IG YOU ARE CLOLR BLIND THEB TJIS US ERORR
14:50
@Adám OK, i will do
I just got an idea that might just be worse than my idea to interpret Malbolge in Vim.
2
@Adám suprising!
@AaroneousMiller interpreting python in vim?
Nope. Part of the idea is learning Hexagony, and then there's another part that's even worse.
Does anybody here know Hexagony?
Wait, so Hexagony is basically just hexagonal Befunge with a hexagonal memory space? neat
15:17
@emanresuA wait, what did I do?
presumably
5 hours ago, by emanresu A
Idea: Meta challenge golf, design challenges that are really hard for some langs and really easy for other
Dec 12 at 10:40, by lyxal
Can't believe I'm being beaten by 3 tacit languages in terms of code quality by a single rank.
@lyxal whats the rank for vyxal now?
@UnrelatedString I don't remember ever doing this...
Aside from me just normally posting challenges I guess
16:03
boo
what exactly is LYAL
14
Q: Language nominations for the "Learn You a Lang for Great Good" chat event

caird coinheringaahingWe've decided we'd like to give the "Learn You a Lang for Great Good" chat event \${}^*\$ a go. As a brief overview, this event would be: For around an hour (or as long as participants want) every two weeks, discussion in The Nineteenth Byte is primarily about a specific programming language. Th...

16:22
time to do some research on Zourne again SHell
@Adám I know you mainly wanted practical languages, but here it is in Pip: {V\"{(\aa(\bb))}\"}
Of interest: Pip does not have lexical scope or closures. I got around this by constructing the function-to-be-returned as a string and then evaluating it.
I’m annoyed that the shortest Scala solution is the exact same as the js one
@lyxal Nah can’t do any underscore abuse here :(
CMC: Guess what _(_,_(_)) does in Scala
16:40
0
Q: When i Search “""” and go to page 3652449 the results change to 0 instead of millions

FmbalbuenaIf i search '""' then there millons of results, but there is [3652449] button, i clicked and the results changed to 0 and errors "We couldn't find anything for your search" but if we go to page 1 goes back to normal, the search is still the same, but [3652449] button exists. What happened?

@Adám ... And in tinylisp, another language without lexical scope or closures: Try it online!
I could have done it with just the builtins, but all the nested cons structures were getting confusing, and list is a really simple function to define.
@DLosc This doesn't seem the same. I was expecting the final arguments 10 and 5 and getting the result 10 11 12 13 14
17:01
Oh, sure--I just used different example functions so I wouldn't have to define anything extra. I can do those specific ones, one moment.
@DLosc it has been several moments
@GingerIndustries I didn't realize how tricky those functions would be to implement in tinylisp without using any library functions. :P
@GingerIndustries Moments around what?
@user Moments around this line
@DLosc Amazing. Thanks!
17:21
@DLosc The Pip version doesn't work at all on TIO, so here's what it looks like when run on Replit:
> ./pip.py
=== Welcome to Pip, version 1.0.1 ===
Enter command-line args, terminated by newline (-h for help):
-p
Enter your program, terminated by Ctrl-D or Ctrl-Z:
$hook : {V\"{(\aa(\bb))}\"}
$plus : _+B
$iota : ,_
(($hook $plus $iota) 10 5)
Executing...
[10;11;12;13;14]
17:50
@DLosc Are there other Lisps that would have more built-ins (like for range/iota) and maybe mapping plus so the code could be shorter?
Oh, definitely. In fact, tinylisp has range in its standard library--I just decided not to use it.
Unfortunately, I'm not very familiar with any Lisps besides the ones I've implemented, so I'd have to stumble through writing the code.
But I think most Lisps since Scheme came out have had lexical scope, so it'd also be a lot easier to implement the hook function.
@Adám I have a question about APL
oops
wrong room
@DLosc I can throw something together in Appleseed which will be similar to tinylisp (no lexical scope) but with more (and more readably-named) builtins...
It'd be nice to have a mainstream Lisp/Clojure/Racket/Scheme implementation.
18:18
@Neil If you insist "miniscule" is spelled as "minuscule", you're part of the problem
:p
It has nothing to do with "mini", it's just that "miniscule" is a much more reasonable spelling. I'd read "minuscule" as "minus-cyool"
Instead of "min-iss-cyool"
And insisting that words have a "correct" spelling is like, the least productive thing imaginable
Ooh, here's another word I hope ends up like minuscule: pronunciation
There should totally be an "o" before that "u"
"pronounciation"
You don't "pronunce" stuff
@Adám Wait...ISPs censoring stuff? Where in the world are you right now?
I pronounce ("noun") stuff according to its pronunciation ("nun")...
@Adám Here's a (probably very unidiomatic) implementation in Common Lisp: Try it online!
One of the StackOverflow posts I ran across had this to say about Common Lisp: "Note also that while CL does have functional elements, idiomatic code is much less functional in CL than in Scheme. So probably I woudn't write something like this at all :)"
18:35
@Neil But that's just pointless irregularity. As a speaker of the english language, you have the power to contribute to the language, and fix tiny inconsistencies a little at a time.
There's a whole bunch of similar vowel shifts between related parts of speech, tho. Do you also want to pronounce "invitation" as "invite-ation"?
@Adám scheme: (lambda (f g) (lambda (x y) (f x (g y))))
That's a pretty common change, tho'. "inviteation" looks clearly wrong to me, whereas "pronounciation" does not.
It might help that "pronounciation" is how I've always pronunced it.
Yeah, it might be a regional pronunciation. I say it like it's spelled.
I'm gonna inviteate you >:P
I'm gonna pronunciate you >:P
18:42
@DLosc Is the fubcall necessary? Doesn’t (g y) do the job?
the funcall is necessary
common lisp has a distinction between the function namespace and the variable namespace
@RedwolfPrograms Her Majesty's United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland.
so to access a function as a value, you use #'fun (sugar for (function fun)), and to call an arbitrary expression (anything other than ((lambda (...) ...) args) or (function-from-function-namespace args)) you use (funcall value-expression args)
I didn't know any of this, I just tried stuff from StackOverflow answers until something worked :P
(That is to say, I was aware of the separate namespaces, but I didn't know about funcall)
18:47
@Wezl-acautionarytale Would it be possible to give me a TIO link with the mapping plus and the range functions included so we can call the final function on 10 and 5 to get 10 11 12 13 14?
I can't access TIO, but I can hand you the code
the iota implementation depends on the scheme used
Any is fine. It is just for demo purposes.
for most schemes, you can use srfi-1 which includes iota, but IIRC TIO doesn't have any schemes (nvm I'm wrong)
@RedwolfPrograms It's actually the same exact phonological process, as it turns out. In Middle English, the "ou" represented a long "u" sound, corresponding to the short "u" of "pronunciation" the same way the long "i" of "invite" corresponds to the short "i" of "invitation." The Great Vowel Shift obscured the connection by turning the long "u" from "oo" into "ow".
Interesting
Still doesn't mean we should stick with pronunciation for historical reasons tho' :p
18:51
@Wezl-acautionarytale It has Chez Scheme, Chicken Scheme, and Gambit Scheme (also Racket if you count that as a Scheme)
wait does it have guile?
Yes
@RedwolfPrograms I suppose. My love for historical linguistics and for keeping patterns intact wants to disagree with you, but it is true that languages sometimes change the pronunciation of words in ahistorical ways because it matches some other perceived pattern.
(use-modules (srfi srfi-1)) ;; iota
(define (plus n l) (map (lambda (m) (+ n m)) l))
(define (hook f g) (lambda (x y) (f x (g y))))

(display ((hook plus iota) 10 5))
(newline)
Which Scheme?
^ works for guile
18:55
I mean, I'm sure doughnut and plough and yoghurt and minuscule were all spelled that way for a good historical reason as well :p
@cairdcoinheringaahing Your most recent challenge has 11 bytes for Vyxal and 4 for Jelly
@Wezl-acautionarytale Noice.
Would you also support changing to "announciation," "denounciation," and "renounciation"?
I've never heard any of those words before, but probably yes
@DLosc why would racket not be counted as a scheme?
18:56
I support getting rid of the second n in environment
And turning the r into y
Let's just make up a whole new word to replace "environment", it kinda sucks
wait what
"government" → "govvermed", anyone?
18:58
gov't
Best spelling
@user IDK, I think it has a bunch of extra stuff beyond the core idea of Scheme, doesn't it? Domain-specific languages and stuff
i just wrote try: something except: raise in real prod code lol
@emanresuA Uh... I pronounce that as "en-vie-urn-ment." Definitely needs all the n's, even tho it's not pronounced the way it's spelled.
Here's a real contentious one: February
19:00
depending on how i'm feeling i think i say one of environment (rarely), enviurnment, or enviurment
also the ment is pronounced mint cuz why not
demintia
@hyper-neutrino Interesting--Wikipedia says the pin-pen merger is most characteristic of the US South
@Wezl-acautionarytale rain-1.github.io/scheme-srfi-1.html for other schemes could help
I pronounce the "i"/"e" in "pin"/"pen" just differently enough I can tell the two apart, but in the "ment" of "environment" I can't tell which I'm using (probably a mix of both)
@DLosc idk maybe i do pronounce it still as e but not as e-like as like pen
19:04
Actually, on further thought... maybe pin-pen doesn't apply to the -ment ending. It's in an unstressed syllable, which means (for me, anyway) it's more of a schwa pronunciation than a short e.
@Wezl-acautionarytale Chez scheme is easiest. It doesn't even need the import
@DLosc oh yeah true
out of curiosity have you watched the Tom Scott video on schwa
@Wezl-acautionarytale Everything else the same?
yes
I should probably be ashamed of how many schemes I have installed...
@hyper-neutrino I think so--can't remember for sure which of his videos I have and haven't watched, but I think I have a recollection of him pronouncing a schwa
... and YouTube helpfully tells me that yes, I have watched that video
19:07
nice
@Wezl-acautionarytale I can't make it work on TIO, but Guile is fine. Thank you so much!
CMQ: How do you pronounce "omicron"?
Is that a short or a long I in "mi"?
19:14
@DLosc imagine having a mouth that exists IRL
long o like coat, mi like miss, cron
ah-my-cron (with a long o in cron)
I say a short o
Like u in umpire.
19:16
... That's a short u.
English is short on non-diphthongs.
i'd say short o is like operate
Yeah, that.
Which is distinct from short u as in upper (or umpire)
The short o in optical and the short u in umpire are two very different sounds for me
19:21
IPA is supposed to make conversations like these not happen
Oh, I think I pronounce them the same.
but I like conversations. KEP TAKIN
@Wezl-acautionarytale I agree, but first we need to force everyone to learn IPA :P
wait, is it ip-pa or eye-pay :P
Indian Pale Ale?
19:23
I've always said "omicron" with two short o's (as in "operate" or "con") and a short i (as in "miss"). When the COVID variant first came out, I was shocked at how many newscasters pronounced it with a long o like caird does.
I pronounce it as though it's omicron persei 8
And then I was even more shocked at the number of different pronunciations listed on Wiktionary: four for US English and seven for UK English!
Disappointed none have a long I
@DLosc International purple apples?
@RedwolfPrograms Two of the British ones do
19:28
Wait really? lol
@DLosc I don't think I've ever heard anyone say any of the last 4 of the UK ones
Wait, yeah, s/Two/Four/
"Oh, micron."
The first and third are really the only ones I've heard people actually say
If we were interested in matching the modern Greek pronunciation, it'd sound something like the English words "oh me crone" which is actually pretty hilarious if you spell it like that :P
So "small o" is actually big. Ugh.
19:40
If you're referring to the Greek pronunciation, the letters omicron and omega are pronounced the same way. Modern Greek has a LOT of vowel mergers. (Actually, it started in the Byzantine period IIRC.)
20:03
0
Q: Twins' complements

cjquinesConsider a length-\$n\$ array of positive integers. The complement of the element with index \$i\$ is the element with index \$n - i\$. The twin of an element \$a\$ is its complement after removing all elements not equal to \$a\$. For example, in the array [1, 2, 3, 4, 2, 1, 3, 2], the compleme...

20:34
Well, everybody already knows [citation needed] that worst practices can slow your application down :P
Short code can give you O(N↑↑↑↑N) complexity
20:50
Who cares. Straying from best practices can save bytes!
21:13
@AaroneousMiller That explains the amount of bugs featured throughout the network...
looks pretty good to me
Thanks :P
Should I move it to the main sandbox or leave it where it is?
21:32
TFW you recognize someone linked in a wikipedia article as an SE user
was it ais?
No, Anders Sandberg (from physics.se)
ah
@emanresuA Lol I was looking at the pythonanywhere logs earlier and saw the reference implementation, and I was just like "wtf is this monstrosity?" Now it makes sense
I'm posting it on CR lol
21:37
@RedwolfPrograms Don't look at the users on Math Overflow then, there are a lot of the most well-known modern mathematicians active there :P
@emanresuA RIP CH :(
Terry Tao and Noam Elkies both have over 50k rep there IIRC
@Adám Haskell: flip.((.).)
@flawr Why do you need the flip?
And how would you write all of this?
@Adám it's kinda hard to explain:) flip takes a function that has at least two arguments and returns a new function where the order of the arguments are flipped
21:46
Right, that's what I thought. (It is in APL.)
So you flip the root function so that you can preprocess the other argument? But you could just take the arguments in reversed order (and either rely on the root function being commutative, or use a flipped root function rather than flipping it in the combinator).
presumably flawr was keeping consistent with the order you took them in=)
That's fair enough. I just wanted to understand.
@Riker ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ They posted it there for others to take on
@Riker no, because it's flip., not flip - it flips the second and third arguments (g and x)
Here's an explanation
oh, that makes sense. neat
21:51
waves
@Adám like this - sorry it took me a while
waves back
waves, then realizes they were waving at the other guy
@flawr Nice. Going into show notes. Maybe I'll split it into an explicit and a tacit edition.
@Riker exactly, we could write f x g y = f x (g y) (x and g flipped) as h = ((.) .)
21:53
stands confused, cause some stranger I don't know just waved at me
waves at @cairdcoinheringaahing for reasons
@pxeger 1. very good explanation 2. did you build that on the TIO code or is this a completely independent project?
it's my own project which competes with TIO
(not that there are any market forces for that competition, what with both being totally FOSS)
21:57
It's super nice!
thanks!
it's still missing features though
There've been a lot of online interpreters recently, with ATO being the most fleshed out
Bubbler has one that's entirely run with JS/Wasm which is super cool
@pxeger Time to arbitrarily divide CGCC users into two camps, depending on whether they use TIO or ATO more :P
@Adám what kind of show?:)
0
Q: Diagonal square spiral pattern in Vyxal

emanresu AI wrote this code as a reference implementation for this challenge. How can I make it more readable and/or efficient? The goal is to take an integer and create patterns like the following: /\ \/ /\ \/\ \/ /\ /\/\ \ \/ \/ /\ / \ \ /\ \/\/\ \ \/ \/ For n=1,2,3,4 respectively. Code: ...

Longest Vyxal I've ever written :)
21:58
well I think riju.codes is more fleshed out but it's not designed for code golf in the same way
And of course, obligatory self promotion, I'm working on one called RTO
@cairdcoinheringaahing I already have mental Naughty and Nice lists with that decision ;)
@pxeger I just read your comment about docker, did you attempt to run it in docker?
I'm not an expert but I've used it before, so maybe I could give it an attempt.
@flawr yes; it doesn't work because you can't really spawn more containers inside a docker container
unless you give it --privileged which more or less defeats the point of Docker, don't you think?
21:59
what do you need that for?
@pxeger If you need to spawn more things, just lower the light level
@flawr that's how the user code is sandboxed, with more containers
ooh I see
ok that is definitely above my level of knowledge
RTO uses Docker itself for the sandboxing, since users will be able to submit their own languages
So that might play better with nesting that within Docker
Idk much about that sort of stuff though
but RTO doesn't use ephemeral containers, right? It keeps them running, listening for code execution requests, IIRC
22:01
@Adám oh that sounds cool, I need to give those podcasts a listen!
Only for popular languages
22:42
@DLosc Huh, I always thought Racket was an extension of Scheme, but it looks like it's kinda sorta but not really a superset of R5RS that's not entirely compatible with both R5RS and R6RS (so question)
23:39
oh no the title must be 15 char long
why
it is what it is
0
Q: Remove question title length limitation

okieThe reason title length exist Because it's useful to prevent spam on most of the other site, you would not like to see bunch of 1 character question flooding. But... I already meet the situation a few time before, that I named the question properly, but it's still under 15 character, for example:...

and there isn't a meta post about it
<del>so Ima put it up and get alot of downvote <\del>
Title golf go brr
23:52
people help me learn markdown
i forget it again
You could maybe use zero width spaces
;-;
New questiontion: E
lol it works
i can imagine me getting banned because of this
23:54
Nah I'm sure it's fine
also the meta site congrats me with you posted your first question :D
lets hope hyper protect me from being nuked because of 0 width space
0
Q: Repeat average‎

okieBackground It was a normal presentation that I were in as a audience, until the presenter gave a math problem about repeat taking 2 number out of a list a replacing them with average, claiming that there will be something special about it, and our math teacher, sitting at the end of classroom, ex...

super easy question, and the story is real
@NewPosts It's a nice thought, but this is almost a guarenteed
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