The Nineteenth Byte

12:01 AM

0

Q: AoCG2021 Day 8: Delivery Corrections

Part of Advent of Code Golf 2021 event. See the linked meta post for details. The story continues from AoC2015 Day 3, Part 2. This challenge was kindly contributed by Wheat Wizard (Grain Ghost). Santa is delivering presents to an infinite two-dimensional grid of houses. The delivery begins deliv...

rues

12:22 AM

@DLosc ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ (assuming Unicode is allowed)

lyxal

12:34 AM

@rues how do you like windows 11 so far?

rues

It's going good

lyxal

asking because I'm considering updating

would you recommend?

rues

I had a terminal in a remote window in VS Code crash on me once, but idk if it's a Windows 11 thing

@lyxal I don't want to recommend it to you because I've only been using it for a few days at this point and I have no idea if Windows 11 explodes in rare cases :P

lyxal

fair enough

I'll wait till you know more

rues

I haven't encountered anything bad yet, though, so I guess you could go ahead and update if you really want. You have 10 days to downgrade to Windows 10

Do you use GrabCAD? Some people I know were having problems with that on Windows 11

lyxal

12:37 AM

no, I don't have anything CAD lol

Neil

(fyi I lost 70 rep from that user removal; I only just got around to checking)

rues

This is what the home screen or whatever it's called looks like for me (I just chose a solid color but there are nicer themes if you want)

lyxal

@Neil fixed

rues

Oh, and even apps such as snipping tool and control panel look nicer now

File explorer

lyxal

ooh that does look nice

rues

12:42 AM

It looks very Mac-y, all the windows, buttons, etc. are rounded

OldSandboxPosts

1:00 AM

Sandbox posts last active a week ago: Silly Sentence Generator, Implement a BrainFlump interpreter

lyxal

@OldSandboxPosts sensible paragraph destroyer, deconstruct a skullflump(?) compiler

rues

A paragraph is the opposite of a sentence?

lyxal

it doesn't have to be the exact antonym

just relatively opposite

rues

@OldSandboxPosts Sensible Pardon List, Specify the HeartBlint babbler

Wezl - a cautionary tale

1:35 AM

lol

but the opposite of generator is consumer

lyxal

So it should be sensible pardon consumer

New Posts

1:51 AM

0

Q: Choose the best colors to re-color an image

Given some set of pixels large set of pixels (R,G,B, no alpha), a cost function, and a number n, I would like this algorithm to return n different colors such that the number of pixels that map to each color has minimal variance. I will explain what that means: Mapping: A pixel 'maps' to the colo...

color

caird coinheringaahing

2:11 AM

@lyxal Just so you know, I get an email every week with these :P

lyxal

@cairdcoinheringaahing I know :)

rues

@lyxal caird, it’s me, rues, from one week in the past. If you’re getting this, it means Earth’s screwed. If you’ve invented time travel yet, please come back into the past to get me

Aaargh wrong msg

I’m not gonna bother editing that

Aaroneous Miller

@NewPosts well that challenge changed a bit

rues

Wow how did that happen

caird coinheringaahing

@rues If I ever invent time travel, my first act will be to create so many paradoxes :P

Physics is only fun if you break everything involved :P

Bubbler

2:23 AM

@NewPosts I don't know how to explain what's wrong here

Aaroneous Miller

Since nobody else has posted the LYAL message, I guess I will

Welcome to the eighth Learn You A Lang For Great Good! Today, we'll be learning Lost, a non-deterministic 2D language made by Grain Ghost. Feel free to ask questions about Lost, post CMCs ("LMC"s) related to the language, and just discuss the language in general. Try it online!

4

Wezl - a cautionary tale

yay

CMC: write the program that does nothing, then ends

or ends and then does nothing, the order doesn't matter

Razetime

oh boy this is insane

Unrelated String

tbf in lost it's not entirely straightforward since you need to hit the safety before you can actually terminate

Wezl - a cautionary tale

...that's why it's a CMC

Unrelated String

2:39 AM

wonder if it's actually possible in less than 5 bytes

feels like it should be but then i actually think about it and the answer looks more like no lmao

Wezl - a cautionary tale

yeah it needs %, @, and another dimension to catch IPs

Unrelated String

yeah

i'm more thinking of some kind of arrangement of
X
XX
with one `%`, one `@`, and one control flow op, but the control flow op can't be both of the bits that sticks out so no matter what you have a trivial infinite loop

Razetime

hm why won't a single @ just work

Unrelated String

the safety starts on

Bubbler

tio.run/##y8kvLvn/30GVS9Xh////uoEA

5 bytes

likely optimal

Unrelated String

2:45 AM

@ only terminates the program if the safety is off (i.e. the ip has hit a % more recently than a #), because making deterministic programs would be a hell of a lot harder if the ip could randomly start on top of @ and end execution instantly

Wezl - a cautionary tale

so I have \/,%@

Jo King

oh lol, i took it seriously when someone said earlier that the language was "Loss"

Unrelated String

i have what bubbler has; didn't occur to me that you actually can do it in one dimension lol

lmao

Wezl - a cautionary tale

sorry I can't use TIO, but I'm sure Bubbler's solution is correct

@UnrelatedString if you mean my solution, the comma means newline sry

Unrelated String

i'm just running everything with the -QA flags

oh that makes sense

Bubbler

2:46 AM

No, you can't do in 1D because the IP might start vertically on a non-mirror

Unrelated String

yeah because you literally can't do it in 1d

Bubbler

@% halts with probability 1/2

Jo King

are there any lost solutions that use #? i don't remember ever using it

Wezl - a cautionary tale

rats, I can't even exit by erroring because I can't find a way to error

Unrelated String

good question

i can sort of see how it could come up in a very carefully golfed layout

but that doesn't mean it actually has happened

Wezl - a cautionary tale

2:52 AM

CMC: produce an error (out of memory errors give only half credit)

Jo King

print -1 as ASCII tio.run/##y8kvLvn/31BX1cGOyw4I4v7//68b6AgA

Razetime

so i assume the "scope stack" is the only thing that's printed?

Unrelated String

i think it's just the main stack that's printed

scope stack is handy extra storage

Jo King

yup. be careful of pushing unwanted zeroes though

Aaroneous Miller

@JoKing that’s not deterministic tho, since the IP can start on the safety and go right to the halt

Unrelated String

2:58 AM

^

Jo King

i mean, i wasn't aiming for deterministic, just that it produces an error. i'm already relying on the -A flag, so why not on the -Q. But fine, i can move the % to the start: Try it online!

Unrelated String

oh yeah true you can just consider it as specifically a flagged submission lol

Aaroneous Miller

@JoKing oic

Razetime

what are the flags in this language

ah -h

Aaroneous Miller

> Klein Interpreter

🤔

emanresu A

3:06 AM

CMC: add two numbers

Bubbler

Probably doable because extra addition is noop, but multiplication will be frick

Razetime

i;m trying to do this random number challenge

tio.run/##y8kvLvn/385QGydSdeCKs7HBg/7//68bCAA

why's this pushing an extra zero sometimes

emanresu A

What if it spawns on the safety going towards the halt?

Razetime

aha

wraparound i guess

getting this to display exactly one number is.. something

Unrelated String

when all else fails you can make a padded to hell latin square
it won't ever even be close to shortest but it does work

Jo King

3:25 AM

how do you even take input??

the flags say it is after the Source, but i guess you can't do that on TIO

Razetime

cli args

looks like it's automatically added to stack

this one: tio.run/##y8kvLvn/v8zGxobLTlXb4f///4YG/40M/@uGAQA

Jo King

oh, you have to do it before the other args

Razetime

luckily wheat wizard has a few answers in this lang

Jo King

@emanresuA 9 bytes. I feel like there should be a byte that can be removed, but i can't find it

Razetime

CMC: get the sign of a number (-1,0,1)

Jo King

3:37 AM

input is really hard

emanresu A

'cos you have to be careful not to delete it?

Jo King

or do something like - and invert the output

Razetime

i mean

lost allows inputting any int

right

Jo King

sure

4

PyGamer0

3:52 AM

is rn lyal?

Jo King

@JoKing ...why did i get stars for this

@PyGamer0 get lost

6

PyGamer0

oh ok

Jo King

i can't find any previous lost answers that take input apart from this, which is basically the same as my previous answer

Jo King

4:10 AM

CMC: Add one to the input (restriction: only positive)

... is deterministic Lost even Turing Complete? If you're taking input you can't use ?, since that might discard the first number, therefore there's no branching

emanresu A

@GrainGhost ^

Redwolf Programs

@cairdcoinheringaahing Imagine not configuring your bot to auto-ack pings :p

Bubbler

CMC: Multiply two numbers

I have an idea for this one

Uh no

Jo King

i don't think it's possible

caird coinheringaahing

@JoKing Next LYAL: I II Ii I_

Bubbler

4:25 AM

it mostly works but I can't remove exactly four paths that halt immediately

I had this

lyxal

@cairdcoinheringaahing ~~.:|:;~~

ftfy

caird coinheringaahing

@RedwolfPrograms The key reasoning behind not doing that is that I don't know how, and can't be bothered :P

Redwolf Programs

As good a reason as any lol

caird coinheringaahing

Why learn something when you can not? :P

3

@cairdcoinheringaahing She says, while at university, specifically to learn things :P

Razetime

signum looks possible in deterministic lost

caird coinheringaahing

4:33 AM

In case anyone was wondering why their /activity page looks different, the new responsive redesign has been officially rolled out to all sites

Jo King

ha, i was scared of bringing that up in case it had happened forever ago and i had missed it

PyGamer0

> 500
up votes

Jo King

not a fan, the padding and size is stupidly large

PyGamer0

CMQ: remove LCT (LCC in Jelly) from flax?

caird coinheringaahing

@JoKing Keeping an eye on MSE has its perks :P

PyGamer0

4:36 AM

@JoKing i agree

caird coinheringaahing

@PyGamer0 Lowest Common Tractor?

PyGamer0

@cairdcoinheringaahing no: Largest Commercial Train

that rammed into the dataserver

caird coinheringaahing

@JoKing Everything's larger, but I don't mind the fact that the new info is available

I dislike the fact that the "next badge" and "next tag badge" bits are crammed together

lyxal

hey guys what are articles?

codegolf.stackexchange.com/users/78850/lyxal?tab=articles

it 404s but it's on the profile pages

caird coinheringaahing

It's for collectives on SO

emanresu A

4:40 AM

Yeah, it's big and ugly

caird coinheringaahing

I think they basically standardised profiles across the network, which includes articles on non-SO accounts

emanresu A

CMC: Golf down an answer you posted at least six months ago

Jo King

How is there no info on the reputation section on the summary page? like no dates, no numbers, literally just green rectangles

Razetime

impossible CMC, all my answers are perfect

PyGamer0

@emanresuA people who joined <6 months ago: o_O

emanresu A

4:43 AM

Bubbler

Lost CMC: Print 1 half of the time and nothing otherwise

PyGamer0

@emanresuA yeah i know

caird coinheringaahing

@JoKing mmmm, love me some green rectangles

28

Q: Articles on MSE?

I noted the "Articles" tab here on my MSE profile: Does this mean that articles are coming to MSE as well (which wouldn't really serve a purpose IMHO), or is this a bug and should this only be visible on SO?

bug status-planned profile-page article collectives

@JoKing FWIW, you can hover over the green rectangles to get more info

Jo King

ah ok, i was trying to click on them, and the tooltip doesn't show up after you do so

i guess someone's already reported it: meta.stackexchange.com/a/372603/381197

Niko

Is SE updated?

PyGamer0

4:46 AM

yes

Niko

my rep changed yet again

1135 => 1121, minus 14

i think the quantum boolean thingy just got yeeted

lol

caird coinheringaahing

That's an interesting change

Redwolf Programs

Three downvotes and an upvote I guess

Niko

wait

it's +2/-3

but my rep was 1135

hold up

nvm

caird coinheringaahing

+20/-6

Niko

4:48 AM

lol

Razetime

@Bubbler First attempt: tio.run/##y8kvLvn/307VQdXGTsNQ1YHLDgji4myA4P///7phAA

caird coinheringaahing

@Niko Yep, Community deleted it an hour ago

Niko

my math just went back to elementry school for a moment

caird coinheringaahing

It's understandable, math with numbers is the worst kind of math

Niko

I have a idea of fixing that quantum question

I think doing that transpiler thingy only will make most language possible to solve

Jo King

4:59 AM

@Bubbler 9 bytes

Bubbler

Nice

Jo King

that was more randomly rearranging the code than it was actual thought

Niko

5:17 AM

if i remember, did lyxal setup a part of his web to allowed vpn-alike website view?

like using one site that embedded another site?

PyGamer0

CMP: Youtube to .mp3 converters?

caird coinheringaahing

This change makes we want vomit. It's absolutely horrible. I would rather remove my teeth with a screwdriver then look at it. Please revert and throw this garbage change into the trash bin. I wish I had something nice to say, about the change, but the simple fact is I actually hate it. — Ramhound 4 hours ago

6

See, I prefer the old activity page, mainly cause I get more info at a glance. But this is such an overreaction that I understand why SE is hesitant to post feedback posts on MSE

Redwolf Programs

Should interleaving a string and an array return a string or an array?

emanresu A

5:35 AM

array

PyGamer0

^

lyxal

6:24 AM

@Niko that was indeed me

It was just embedding OEIS sequences

e.g. lyxal.pythonanywhere.com/oeis?seq=1,2,3,4,5

that's the equivalent of just searching the OEIS for sequence 1,2,3,4,5

Unrelated String

6:40 AM

@PyGamer0 just pip install youtube-dl

PyGamer0

Try it online!

^ any way to make that loop O(n) or it cannot be O(n)?

technically its not O(n²) as it recurs

pxeger

@AaroneousMiller looks like it's been decided anyway, but I was gonna suggest we do Lost thiis time anyway

Unrelated String

i think you actually can construct a quadratic worst case
or actually i guess we need to define what the input size actually is

but yeah it won't do too hot on something that's just one longish list nested super deep because it'll keep traversing the whole thing repeatedly

@PyGamer0 i think this is an all around improvement by just making it a generator

you could also pass the list you're building around

PyGamer0

6:58 AM

Is this better? (your method but its in a func)

^ is that an improvement

i strictly want a list

att

can just put a wrapper around the generator function then

Unrelated String

should be

^

Bubbler

I thought of this but wrapping the generator should also work

Both are O(n) where n is the length of the resulting list

Unrelated String

@Bubbler the non-generator solution i was thinking of was pretty much that except with an optional argument instead of an inner helper

Bubbler

def flatten(L,buf=[]) doesn't work btw

Unrelated String

7:03 AM

yeah

att

wrapper would be like this

Unrelated String

can use buf=None then just substitute manually

PyGamer0

i never knew about yield from

what does it do?

PyGamer0

7:16 AM

ah my github token expired

Razetime

just set it to never expire

hyper-neutrino

@PyGamer0 it's sort of like just looping through the thing you yield from and yielding each of those

PyGamer0

@Razetime i set to expire on 1st december 2022

hyper-neutrino

however, that's only for very elementary applications. yield from does way more than for x in a: yield x could ever hope to do

PyGamer0

cause if i switch computers i would need to make a new one

hyper-neutrino

7:20 AM

see this SO post for more info

PyGamer0

@hyper-neutrino ok thx

caird coinheringaahing

8:07 AM

@cairdcoinheringaahing Wow, the announcement is now at +51/-51 O.o

Jo King

> After receiving and incorporating feedback [from] the community

Press X to doubt

i really dislike chat markdown

PyGamer0

@cairdcoinheringaahing net: ¯2

caird coinheringaahing

*All info was correct at time of posting :P

@JoKing One thing to note is that the feedback before earlier today was based on the video, not the actual deployed product

Jo King

they look very different from each other

Most upvoted post on the linked mobile view deprecation question: "Can we increase information density on the responsive site on mobile?". I think they took this to mean "Can we decrease information density on the responsive site on desktop?"

pxeger

I really cannot understand why you would do anything other than start with the current design and only modify it to be responsive. — pxeger 5 mins ago

Why was it necessary to start from scratch?

This has resulted in a large number of obvious bugs (which should've been caught before going live) but wouldn't have happened at all if you started with the current one

caird coinheringaahing

8:16 AM

It's been fun to watch this go from score 16, 3 answers to -7 with 74 answers, all within 12 hours :P

pxeger

The old design was already perfect on desktop, so no changes should have been made to it!

caird coinheringaahing

yeah, making the old design work on phones would've been a better approach

Jo King

i dunno about everyone else, but it still looks pretty bad on mobile. seems like the page width is still too wide

caird coinheringaahing

There's too much empty space on mobile, but its nicer than the old "just give them a zoomed out desktop view"

Jo King

uhhh, i mean, it still is the zoomed out desktop view

caird coinheringaahing

8:25 AM

Its more of a zoomed-in desktop view

The mobile version (for me at least) needs a bit of tweaking to remove all the empty space, but is otherwise better than it used to be

Jo King

don't judge my navigation bar

oh, looks better on chrome, maybe it's just the browser

emanresu A

@JoKing Better than on desktop, cos you can actually see stuff.

Jo King

i mean, i can't read the words, but sure

@cairdcoinheringaahing ah got it working. dunno why it was broken. i mostly agree with this

PyGamer0

whats the use of attrdict in jelly souce, it is just for storing the arity and call of atoms?

caird coinheringaahing

8:41 AM

It's a type that allows object.method to be syntax sugar for object["method"]

PyGamer0

thats it?

and what does it store, just the info about atoms (their arity/method to call)?

caird coinheringaahing

It stores whatever you want, but it's typically used as attrdict(arity = n, call = function, ldepth = l, rdepth = r)

PyGamer0

whats ldepth and rdepth?

caird coinheringaahing

The depth that the function vectorises to on the left and right

PyGamer0

oh

left and right, the arguments?

caird coinheringaahing

8:45 AM

Yeah

If you have e.g. f that has ldepth = 1, rdepth = 0 with [[1,2],[2,3]] f [[3,4],[5,6]] you get [[1,2] f [[3,4],[5,6]], [2,3] f [[3,4],[5,6]]]

PyGamer0

hm what if ldepth = 2, rdepth = 1?

caird coinheringaahing

[[1 f [3,4], 2 f [3,4]], [2 f [5,6], 3 f [5,6]]] I believe

PyGamer0

so are ldepth and rdepth constant for a certain atom?

caird coinheringaahing

Yeah, if they're not given, it vectorises to full depth, as in this question

@cairdcoinheringaahing Nope, if not given they default to not vectorising, and a depth of zero indicates full depth vectorisation

PyGamer0

9:04 AM

am I doing my commands right?

Grain Ghost

9:20 AM

@JoKing If by deterministic Lost you mean a subset of list programs that are deterministic you are mostly correct, there is no way to take input outside of a few specific functions. But TC does not require input, it requires a mapping between programs that preserves halting behavior. It is my belief that Lost is in fact TC.

Multiplying inputs is provably not possible.

I have been considering a modified version of lost in which types of input are possible.

You can also give very weird input formats.

emanresu A

@GrainGhost Might be possible if you can encode both into one number and take that multiple times

decoding would be the tricky bit though

Grain Ghost

Or just some padding on the input would even do it I think.

emanresu A

Is there any meta consensus that allows taking an input multiple times?

Grain Ghost

No, that would be weird imo. But for lost specific CMCs / challenges I would say that using odd formats is fine. Esp. for learning how to do things.

Unrelated String

i think convoluted input formats tend to only be prohibited to the extent that they encode extra computation
so it's probably fine for a lost program to require some large-but-constant amount of padding

but actual redundancy would sort of have to reflect something deeper so it's probably out

Grain Ghost

9:28 AM

CMC: Multiply two numbers in lost with the least amount of padding.

Jo King

9:38 AM

is there a term for a language that can map all possible inputs to outputs?

Grain Ghost

What do you mean by that?

Jo King

like, you can write a program for any mapping of a set of inputs to a set of outputs

Grain Ghost

If I'm understanding it's not possible, there are more output input combinations than there are finite strings.

Jo King

uhhh, what if the input/output is finite?

Grain Ghost

Ah ok, doable. Idk if there's a name for that.

Neil

9:45 AM

yay I managed to golf my efficient sum powers solver down to less than my brute force solver

Jo King

this is usually what i really mean when i think TC (i know i'm wrong)

Grain Ghost

10:03 AM

In terms of the normal hierarchy it's normal, but it has this extra restriction, which is basically just a encoding restriction. I think for theoretical computer science that stuff is just usually ignored.

Razetime

Made a userscript which makes BQN submissions easier.

3

emanresu A

\\\/\
/////
\\o\\
/\///
/\/\\

(Don't ask whether those are my arms, legs, tentacles or all three)

Leaky Nun

10:26 AM

i'm lost

lyxal

@LeakyNun no, you're Leaky Nun

PyGamer0

i am bored

/s

2 hours ago, by PyGamer0

am I doing my commands right?

6 hours ago, by PyGamer0

CMQ: remove LCT (LCC in Jelly) from flax?

Jo King

10:53 AM

@GrainGhost 2 padded 1s. I can't quite figure out a single padding (yet)

Grain Ghost

Nice.

Adám

11:26 AM

@Razetime Nice. Installed. You may want to add none to the fence so SE doesn't try to guess the language.

lyxal

11:47 AM

holy crap I just found a reference to ais523 on a TAS run of a brain age game

TASBot plays Brain Age by micro500, xy2_ in 20:06 - Awesome Games Done Quick 2016 - Part 154

►

at around 17:17

here

Jo King

@GrainGhost 42 bytes, one padding (though it doesn't work when multiplying a zero)

i had to download the interpreter to debug this, did you know there is a single space at the beginning of line 23 of interpreter.py?? fun

Grain Ghost

The interpreter is ... bad.

Razetime

12:20 PM

@lyxal wow what the hell

i've seen thsi twice and i didn't notice

Fmbalbuena

CMC: print "Lost" in Lost without trailing newlines

Grain Ghost

That's not going to happen if you use the python interpreter.

Fmbalbuena

Is possible?

Grain Ghost

No the python interpreter always prints a trailing newline.

Fmbalbuena

uhhh i never learned Lost

What is paddings in Lost?

Grain Ghost

12:32 PM

We just mean that you put some junk on top of the input before executing.

It's to prevent accidental damage to the input.

Fmbalbuena

ok so

When the IP moves randomly?

Grain Ghost

Well it doesn't so much move randomly as it starts in a random place.

The first instruction it executes could be something that just eats the input like ?.

Fmbalbuena

@GrainGhost oh sorry

Razetime

@Adám will do

update coming up soon-ish

Fmbalbuena

what does -A Flag do?

Grain Ghost

12:35 PM

It toggles whether the output is printed as a string or as integers.

Razetime

-Ascii

Fmbalbuena

-Int?

Grain Ghost

The default is integers.

Fmbalbuena

sry

Razetime

space separated

Grain Ghost

12:37 PM

Yeah.

Fmbalbuena

@GrainGhost Is there program with infinite output?

Grain Ghost

No output is done at the end.

So it's not possible.

If there were a "output now" command it wouldn't actually be very useful since you can't undo output. It would almost always have a chance to output stuff you don't want near the start of the program.

Fmbalbuena

so... the IP Wraps?

Grain Ghost

Yes, like a torus.

Although ... you could link output to safety ... then you would be able to control it a bit ...

Fmbalbuena

ok so i'm making a program that outputs 9

Grain Ghost

12:41 PM

Yeah that's a nice starting point.

Fmbalbuena

without -A flag

Grain Ghost

Yeah, definitely easier.

Fmbalbuena

Try it online!

oh no

sometimes outputs 9 9

i'm fixing that

Grain Ghost

if you add the -V flag it will run all the outputs.

Fmbalbuena

*give up*

Grain Ghost

12:46 PM

( will let you get rid of the extra 9.

Fmbalbuena

@GrainGhost yeah but i still can't

Try it online!

Grain Ghost

hm. Well first putting % next to @ is risky since it can start on % and then immediately exit.

PyGamer0

Try it online!

Grain Ghost

So your initial program where you had stuff in between them had the right idea.

Fmbalbuena

ok so i give up

Grain Ghost

12:48 PM

Well pygamer posted a working solution.

It's very close to what you started with.

PyGamer0

the -V flag is very useful

Fmbalbuena

but i still can't

Grain Ghost

Try and imagine % as the start of the program. It can do a lot of nonsense first, but once it gets to % then your just need to clean up and actually start the program.

PyGamer0

LostCMC: Print the factorial of input

Fmbalbuena

@PyGamer0 oh no

Grain Ghost

12:52 PM

Going to need some padding for that.

Fmbalbuena

@GrainGhost can i do first in ><>?

then transpile to Lost?

PyGamer0

LostCMC: Compute input - 1