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00:00 - 22:0022:00 - 00:00

00:00
Cooking: 5
Christianity: 17
Code Review: 30
Writing: 44
Puzzling: 73
Judaism: 75
SciFi: 161
RPG: 314
Worldbuilding: 354
Stack Overflow: 1,554
Code Golf: 2,257
Interesting, we have the highest number of occurrences, but it's also a religious and scifi thing...
As before, it's a single English word
This one's interesting because 2257 is a lot of results for something on CGCC
@DLosc I tried words liker higher and above and got more than 2.2k results for both
It also isn't pencil, book or power
Want results for any SE sites I haven't included?
00:06
Software Engineering
Islam and Ask Ubuntu
Maybe Politics too because why not
@RedwolfProgrammed 87
In the same vein, Physics, Math, and Astronomy
Oh, CS and Theoretical CS
@user 12 and 20, respectively
@user 184
@RedwolfProgrammed 6
Dang, and I have to leave now :/
Can we have a word hint?
I was gonna go with "free" because it comes close on CGCC, but too many results on SO
Well, it's something politically charged, possibly magical in nature, religious, and golfy. lol
00:09
I find it interesting that SO has only a thousand or so results
@user 276, 17, and 2, respectively
@RedwolfProgrammed Probably not golfy, but somethg that comes up often in challenges
@lyxal It is 8 letters
Ooh, physics is pretty high
@DLosc meta cg
00:10
@user 12 and 4 respectively
@lyxal 801
Wow
That's a lot
It's possible ours is also high because of a famous user with an 8-letter name
@DLosc a second hint?
@lyxal Hint: This result is very significant
Second hint: It's not anyone's username
By "this result", do you mean the word?
Or is your hint a cryptic clue?
00:15
Answer: LOOPHOLE
Bingo!
Nice
Nice one!
This is a fun game, anyone want to bring up another word? (in a different room, probly)
Religion has loopholes, physics has loopholes, code golf has loopholes :P
@DLosc I'm a bit puzzled by Cooking and Judaism having "loophole"
00:17
@Bubbler And RPG and Worldbuilding have lots of loopholes
Yeah :P
When in doubt, handwave everything away :P
CG Meta was a big hint really
@user TBH, I wasn't surprised that Judaism had a lot more hits than Christianity or Islam.
Anyone want to continue?
@DLosc Really, why?
00:20
@user Adám is more qualified to speak to this than I am, but I get the impression that Judaism focuses a lot on whether things are allowable or not, based on a close reading of the Tanakh, Mishnah, and other important writings (and opinions of various Rabbis).
Ah
I can do another round if anyone wants?
Bubbler's doing one right now, feel free to join!
01:00
Sandbox posts last active a week ago: Scrabble Word Finder, Play RPS with 3 bits of memory
01:13
@Bubbler I knew it!!!
I thought of that a second after I stepped away
01:27
You can proof a theorem by covering it with a damp towel and putting it in an oven set to 85℉ (302½K), or just leave the oven lamp on with the door closed, until volume is doubled. — JDługosz 10 hours ago
Protip: Can't prove that challenging theorem? Proof it instead ^ :P
01:53
why is this called the nineteenth byte?
48
A: Let's think of a creative name for our chatroom

dmckee --- ex-moderator kittenWell, the traditional generic name for the country club bar is "the nineteenth hole", which suggests The Nineteenth Byte or something like that.

That name is perfect; it is exactly 19 bytes in size — Justin Feb 15 '14 at 19:32
CMQ: How do you respond to someone who asks you what you're doing when you're code golfing/what you do for fun if that's code golf?
I always have trouble explaining what it is, especially to non-programs
You were a programs
"I just code for fun"
People don't understand me but don't ask much more about it. If someone asks more, they're also a programmer
02:06
^ pretty much
@RedwolfProgrammed solving problems as short as possible
And if you think explaining code golf is difficult, imagine how much harder it is explaining that you created and maintain a programming language specifically for code golf
One person once thought that meant that the language does things faster
And then there's the question "oh so what can it do can it be used for <task x that it really isnt made for at all>"
i need a hilarious example
"Can vyxal be used to make websites/apps?"
Granted it's a perfectly legitimate question
It's having to answer "no" that's a marginally bit awkward
lmao
granted it *can* because of python eval
it just *shouldn't*
And then the follow up question is "so what can it be used for"
To which the answer is "solving challenges tersely"
Which doesn't make it sound that important lol
Luckily I don't have many social interactions, so the question isn't really an issue
7
Call it something like "competitive programming", that makes it sound much more official and cool
yeah that sounds agood
@RedwolfProgrammed dang where were you when I needed that response? :p
@lyxal We need server hosting capabilities
02:24
@emanresuA I was going to make a joke about writing a crappy flask wrapper but then I realised that could work
My steps for social interactions:
1. Somebody says something to you
2. Not pay attention and don't know what they said
3. Mumble something that vaguely answers the most likely things they could have asked
4. They were just being nice and didn't actually care about the answer and since it was a non-answer it's kinda awkward now
5. Nobody wants to socialize with you anyway
¨S - (fun<str,fun<str>,fun<int>,fun<>>,int) -> host server on port a with callback b, a quadradic function taking a string (request), a write function, a send HTTP code function and an end transmission function
My steps for social interactions:
1. I don't have a social account
@emanresuA oh boy that looks horrible :p
The vectorisation for that would be absolute pain :p
Why'd you want to vectorise server creation?
Example code:
02:29
Just in case you're given a list of servers to host as input :p
@emanresuA often you have a client and server in the same program
@hostserver:request:write:sendhttp:end|
  ←sendhttp 200 †
  ←write `Hello, world!` †
  ←end †
;
°hostserver; 8080 ¨S
At that point you might want to use a readable name for the built-in anyway :P
03:14
@RedwolfProgrammed I generally work up to it by multiple stages of explanations, stopping wherever they start looking confused: programming, programming challenges, solving programming challenges with a program as short as possible, making a new programming language that's designed to have short programs
That's if I'm talking to close friends who actually care about hearing the answer. If some random person just asked "What do you do for fun?" I'd probably say something about programming hobby projects.
And then go on to talk about the other things I do for fun, one of which might be more likely to get the "nod of recognition"
(inb4 someone says "imagine having other hobbies")
I've got all sorts of hobbies! Code golf, uh... golfing language design, um... progamming language design, uh... programming, erm... uh...
03:47
So uh...my model for which languages will be most useful to learn based on people's opinions on them in the 2020 SO dev survey has basically predicted that all of programming will die out.
Fun
Oh wait, Rust will grow hugely it seems, along with a few others like Node and Go
i assume it's just a downward trend in every individual language on there?
lol figures
I think it's because a lot of people said they didn't want to continue using languages that they'll actually still end up having to use
E.g. I doubt 40% of JS users are going to stop using it in the next year
Lol, JS is horrible but basically everyone is stuck with it in some way
03:50
yeah
Okay I think it's slightly more accurate now, it's still predicting most languages going down in usage quite a little, but I suppose that's probably accurate anyway
boy i can't wait to maintain this 50 year old cobol codebase next year
And the ranking of the languages is much more important than their actual values
It predicts Typescript will be used almost as much as JS itself lol
Well, by using JS you're technically already using TS
03:57
I made an interesting ranking. It ranks languages by how much people who already use them want to continue using them, vs. how many people who don't use them want to do so.
So sort of like the most cult-like languages :p
The ones at the bottom are a mix of ones that people tend to use a lot or learn first, like JS and Python, as well as ones like Rust that lots of people are wanting to learn
I expect APL near the top
It's second place, yeah
I wonder which language is more unknown and more addictive than APL
04:01
Oh.
One of the long-running Project Euler mods is a Delphi-er
Here's the list. I flipped it upside down and titled it "Most Desired", to fit with the theme of "Most Loved", "Most Wanted", etc. from the survey
> Basically, a rating of how likely it is that you'll want to pick up a language if you don't know it, compared to wanting to stick with it if you already know it. Languages higher on this list will be ones people tend to learn first but move away from quicker (lots of the more typical languages like JS, Python, Java, and C), and/or newer languages that people are rushing to learn (like Rust and Go).
Most Worthwhile: The languages that are predicted to be most worth learning, based on current usage, as well as on whether or not current users plan to stick with it, and whether or not non-users plan to learn it.
yeah, I'm not surprised Python is at the top of the list
it's a really popular and really attractive entry point to programming because it looks innocent and friendly and stabs you in your sleep when you least expect it
4
It's at the top of both lists, which means that it's a language that's both very worthwhile to learn, and least likely to be the one you'll want to stick with for a long time
JS is also in that position
Any "easy-to-learn" programming language will stab you at some point
i don't think the stats reflect that python is a language you won't want to stick with tho
04:10
@RedwolfProgrammed Although actually the two lists seem to have a lot of overlap
just that it's a language a lot of people will pick up or learn as a first language or for fun and then will end up either switching to something else or just ditching programming after doing a bit of python
@hyper-neutrino Yeah, I'm still not really sure how to interpret the first list
It's a bit ambiguous whether a given language is there because it's easy to learn and often used as a first language, or because it's a newer or quickly growing language and lots of people are planning on learning it
i think it's a combination of being easy to learn, extremely popular and thus a language that immediately comes to people's minds when they think about programming, and having a lot of availability in terms of tutorials, classes, etc.
If something is low on the first list and high on the second, like HTML/CSS or SQL, that seems to indicate it's a more narrowly focused language you'll pick up and use from time to time for a while
I've been meaning to try Rust again for a while
That 87% loved statistic makes it pretty tempting
As always, a quick way to learn the basics of some language is to solve problems on Codewars or some other OJ sites
CMQ: Should I take arguments from stdin or command line args?
Use a flag for that
@RedwolfProgrammed which is better to keep as default?
No clue
Probably args
@RedwolfProgrammed why? it is better than stdin?
04:24
It's easier to test stuff, but really nobody's going to be using the downloaded one if there's an online interpreter available
Args are well-separated from each other, stdin not quite
The low level details of this sort of thing rarely matter for code golf though, so if this is intended to be a golfing language it's not a big deal
Especially since online interpreters are a thing
For solely CGCC usage, it's mostly a matter of taste
ok then stdin
For stdin you have to consider that abc\ndef is somewhat ambiguous: is it two args abc and def, or a single arg abc\ndef?
04:30
2 args
stdin splitted by newlines
Then you can't take "single string which may contain newlines" as input
so to take input containing newlines, you'd need to escape them, which opens a whole other can of worms
er yeah strictly speaking you couldn't for program submissions lol
True
I just realized I'm subscribed to two completely different swedish YTers named Mattias
i mean
not an uncommon name
04:35
Yeah but like...something like 1 in 10k people are swedish and named mattias
And out of my 100 or so subscriptions two are swedish and named Mattias
are they similar in terms of their content?
No
One modifies guitars/pianos in really stupid ways, like putting guitar strings on a piano. The other is an animator whose grandfather is responsible for the law banning pet monkeys in sweden.
responsible in the sense of pushed for it or responsible in the sense of caused an incident that prompted it
The second one
The monkey nearly killed him
04:46
Ok, so I am new here, and since I was curious, I searched for results of 'programming' on this site, and there are exactly 500 results.
Wow.
that would be because search results are capped if you aren't signed in
there are actually 22,019 results
Ahhh, gotcha
@hyper-neutrino I just did
Yay, I guess? shrugs
Welcome to CGCC :D
@Bubbler Thanks, though I won't be too active here because coding isn't really my thing, so half-yay? :P
i found out: discord sends 2 post requests when sending a message, first:typing, then:sending
05:02
well that's not really 2 posts per send
i can edit requests and resend them
that's just 1 post for type and 1 post for send
my brother came
@hyper-neutrino oh
yeah it sends only the message POST when i type and quickly send
@lyxal my brother always calls you iksal
Well that's something we have to change.
he is calling you iskall?
05:05
Correct
That's unacceptable
oh he thought the l was I lol
ok he prounces it the same way i do now
@PyGamer0 iksal or iskall?
One's a swedish minecraft youtuber and one is not
@RedwolfProgrammed both
hello guys
05:06
@PyGamer0 show him that image
licks-all sounds like a proper function
Oh huh, three swedish yters. Too bad iskall's (presumably) not named mattias
I think I know of another more technical minecraft YTer with a swedish accent but I can't confirm they're swedish...lots of swedish yters for some reason
Anyway, 'night o/
O/
Whoa your head is suddenly large
Yes, we've been experimenting with limb enlargement
It's going well
05:12
Unfortunately you can't advertise your services because that'd get caught by every spam filter ever
But won't people want to know how to get larger arms?
05:28
@RedwolfProgrammed ./
05:52
def bitnot(α):
    return U.vectorise1(lambda a: ~a, α)
vs
def bitnot(⍺):
    return U.vectorise1(lambda a: ~a, ⍺)
CMQ: which errors?
what's the difference
@hyper-neutrino thats what you have to find
it's clearly two different alphas
so probably for some reason one of them doesn't count as a valid character for identifiers
but which one is the question
First is Greek alpha (which is valid ident), second is APL alpha (which is not)
05:56
appears so
greek considered lowercase, apl considered symbol
yeah i wanted to use apl's ⍺⍵ for var names
turns out only letter-like symbols are allowed
 
2 hours later…
07:36
What do the wise people of TNB do for an android mail client now we all have to use oauth2?
For Linux, mutt, thunderbird and evolution all work but for android?
use mutt in termux?
@PyGamer0 I wonder if that could work
 
3 hours later…
11:07
@RedwolfProgrammed I just skip to step 5
Holy frick are we all really that antisocial sans this online chat room?
@isthisnameinvisibleforyounowpl I only see "isthisnameinvisiblef"
I am on 120% zoom though
I can see up to "foryou" on 100%
@pxeger yes exactly
11:34
answer: yes
TIL you can drag and drop links into text fields to copy their URLs
11:57
100% and I see "isthisnameinvi"
12:24
@lyxal See, I haven't starred that, cause I was out partying when it was posted
I have now starred it, cause I'm now sat in my room alone on my computer :P
@cairdcoinheringaahing yeah okay you don't have to flex the fact that you have a life on us
@UnrelatedString reminds me of desmos, you can paste/type in the Product/Sum Over A Set Of Terms symbols (symbols that look like big pi and big sigma) but you cant type in Actual big pi and big sigma, it just doesnt recognize them
@lyxal Tbf, I say "partying" but I mean "Attending a really interesting tour of a brewery and then having a few pints with some friends after" :P
@thejonymyster for a very short period of time phi stopped being supported as a variable and i was like "uhh i was using that for the golden ratio"
@cairdcoinheringaahing that's still a flex that you have a life ;p
12:26
@lyxal In that case, I'm fine with flexing :P
12:55
@lyxal antisocial sans? :O
13:07
@thejonymyster yeah, he gives you a bad time, but he's introverted at the same time
"You're about to have a tad bime-dammit! I meant bad time. Sorry I'm not good at public speaking >.<"
5
"S....so that's why p...people never use their s...strongest attack first"
0
Q: Triangle of triangles

LynnGiven an integer \$n \geq 2\$, print a triangle of height \$n\$ of (triangles of height \$n\$ of asterisks), as in this SO question. For \$n=2\$, print: * *** * * * ********* For \$n=3\$, print: * *** ***** * * * *** *** *** **...

Welp I'm bed for night
o/////////////////////////////////////////////
@lyxal hi bed I'm rak1507
13:27
wh ois @isthisnameinvisibleforyounowpl ruse or user?
@lyxal damn aussie, you always leave right as I join :P
@Mayube aussie?
Australian?
yes
@NewPosts i should learn charcoal, this would be interesting lol
13:46
0
A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

MayubeSpoonerize my text! code-golf A spoonerism is an error in speech in which the first letter or syllable of words are swapped. For the purposes of this challenge, to 'spoonerize' text is to swap the first letters of each word such that no word has its original first letter. The rest of the word, ca...

14:16
i think i got an amazing challenge idea
but i can't post it to the sandbox now
14:28
@PyGamer0 why not?
15:04
tmw the backtrace printer is erroring but you can't find out where from because the backtrace printer is erroring
ouch
Ugh, I got new glasses yesterday, and they have this really distracting chromatic abberation-like effect in my peripheral vision that makes using multiple monitors really frustrating
15:21
@lyxal No... well, not intentionally... well, ideally I would spend more time with real people but COVID put a hitch in that and it's hard to reach out and... sigh
I socialize with my wife and housemate every day, does that count? :P
Definitely. It sure beats not socializing with your wife and housemate :P
I don't think my housemate would mind, but my wife definitely would
@hyper-neutrino Don't listen to them, Python! I still love you <3
@RedwolfProgrammed I've watched a video by the first guy before
I'm trying to find a balance in PoilerBlate between taking the joke too far and making the language too serious
15:31
I just need two more answers to get a bronze badge. Now I just have to find two non-closed pop-cons to answer...
@Mayube Sounds tricky. Although, most joke languages I've seen really don't worry about going "too far" :P
@DLosc Yeah, but I want the real joke of the language to be that it's actually entirely usable as a practical language
Anything’s usable as a practical language if you’re kooky enough
Like I already scrapped the idea of having to import a SetEntryPoint function to set the entry point, because it's completely redundant, and i'm thinking of toning down the namespace stuff a bit
@Mayube Yeah, that sounds like a tough challenge. Honestly I think what you had at first, plus the namespaces, was probably pretty close to the optimal balance
Man, actually putting thought into a language instead of just throwing in 1-char builtins is so much work
3
15:45
Anyone want to do another Guess a Word?
16:34
the "infamous" internal Google video has been published
what did I just watch
16:54
0
Q: Branchless (MIPS) assembly code for median of 3

M AI was trying to write a short MIPS32 code for computing the median of three registers. The rules: Assume that some values are pre-loaded into $t0, $t1, $t2. The median of the three values should be placed in $t0. No branches are allowed, but otherwise any instruction is okay. You may arbitrarily...

I added to this, but since it uses instructions should I change it to atomic code golf or code challenge?
atomic code golf would probably be the right tag
Personally I'd probably go with , since it's already language specific so tagging it as atomic doesn't mean much
ayo it's snowing lol
Oh nice!
It's actually kind of nice outside here, the temperature's down to around 20°
17:08
Not here it isn't :(
I think last year Texas got all the snow that was scheduled for it for the next century, so I'm not expecting any this year :p
You say that, but events like that are only going to get more common
Oh really? I would've thought it'd be the opposite.
that's 20 F?
No, C
@RedwolfProgrammed Does climate change do some sort of uno-reverse-card in the winter?
17:11
climate change results in more extreme weather
it isn't only warming - hence why "global warming" is being replaced with climate change by most people since it's not very accurate
climate change messes with critical meteorological components such as the jet streams and the Gulf Stream, which cause all manner of changes, both warmer and colder.
Ultimately it makes the climate more extreme in both directions
Some climate scientists predict that the end result of unchecked climate change is another ice age
I'm hoping it snows again this year, the first snow storm last year (not the bad one) was awesome
We'll probably get snow within the week
especially if it's already snowing for HN
I don't know where HN lives but his school is only 100km away from my city
oh you live in london? that's cool - i'm only like an hour and a half away then
@Mayube I live in Waterloo, lol. been here since I was like 3 years old :D
100km away but most of that distance is horizontal so i'm not much farther north than you
@hyper-neutrino yup, my wife went to UWO. Eventually we plan to move out west but that's still a few years out for now
@hyper-neutrino yeah I wouldn't be surprised if we got snow later today
17:20
@Mayube oh that's cool; what major?
@hyper-neutrino horizontal? I don't think there's much of an altitude difference at all lol
I've been to western once or twice for debate tournaments lol
(you meant longitude)
@hyper-neutrino English Lit & Creative Writing
Fun fact: Austin used to be named Waterloo, so if history had gone slightly differently, I'd also live in (a) Waterloo :p
17:20
@pxeger ... yes I did :P
@pxeger there's a 78m altitude difference
moving here from the UK was fun. I took a train to London, then a flight to Toronto, then a train to London :P
3
CMC: Given an array [x, y, z, ...], return another array [[x, x], [y, y], [z, z], ...]
I found a really neat JS solution
Unfortunately it's much longer than the naive solution, but still
the naïve solution is a=>a.map(x=>[x,x])
presumably
@Mayube I moved from the US to Toronto when I was really young and then to Waterloo when I was also really young so I don't remember any of that :P I moved a few years back but it was still within Waterloo so, not as fun or interesting as your move :P
17:30
@RedwolfProgrammed Pip, 3 bytes: gZg
Mine for JS was x=>[...new Set(x).entries()]
Huh. Is a Set basically a mapping x => x then?
I guess that makes sense.
@hyper-neutrino I mean the experience definitely wasn't fun. It ended up being ~24 hours of travelling, starting at 5am UK time. It was exhausting
 
2 hours later…
19:24
@pxeger If you make user a moderator with the magic of tthe console, it disappears
oh I get it
welcome to "SE chat is weird" episode 98
wait so normal users get their name cut even at non-word-boundaries and mods don't?
weird
19:51
CMQ: What is your all-time favourite answer from anyone on CGCC and why?
Oh wow
@Mayube someone find out how to juic an avocad and I'll tell you :P
@Wezlprogramsredwolf isn't avocado juice just guaq? :P
@Mayube that is avocad paste
@DLosc run it through a filter I guess
I mean how d'you think they make cloudy apple juice?
19:58
No I try for thirtee minut and no juic
oh no, so hard to mak juic
@RedwolfProgrammed Keep trying you need try for thirtie minut
anyway to answer my own question, Quest for Tetris is an absolute marvel of computer engineering, and one that I've talked to my programming friends so much about that they just avoid bringing up GoL entirely around me :P
I also need anana juic
@Mayube Yeah that.
Besides that, I've always found this Tweetable Math Art amazing, both for the results and for the golfing.
20:04
@DLosc that is indeed very cool
in fact most of the answers on there are really cool
I really love popcon-like challenges involving drawing things with interesting constraints
me too
That one and the images with all colors one are both really cool and have some great answers
I also just learned what a Buddhabrot is, and it's beautiful
20:09
This is pretty cool
I'm a big fan of generative art in general, so seeing what people can generate under constraints like this is awesome
glorfindel has his 7th diamond now xD
Which site?
board games
Wasn't it him who just got another like a month or two ago?
20:11
he got one on MM in june (it was that long ago??)
i can't remember if there was one between then and now
 
1 hour later…
21:31
Hi all
I really love that there is a MIPS assembly question that is being upvoted!
And not closed for being restricted to one language for example
We are very cool :)
00:00 - 22:0022:00 - 00:00

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