The Nineteenth Byte

Redwolf Programs

15:04

I'd added mouse aiming at one point since I figured it'd be better...and then people got mad and said the original controls were better >:|

I did attempt rewriting the game a few times:

2

I found an old version of the game without the ammo limit or terrain generation/weird background

No HP bars either, and only 4 weapons

Aaroneous Miller

I'm messing with the flipbit interpreter to try and figure out what is causing the strange behavior with loops, and I have no idea what's going on, so I think it may be better to just rewrite it.

Is it strange that I can't decide if it would be easier to do it in Python or in Vim?

Redwolf Programs

It is

This makes it sound like the birds are capable of having opinions on them

Aaroneous Miller

lol

Redwolf Programs

If anyone was worried, the bird community has responded positively to filter strips in Maryland.

It's pretty tight knit community though, they don't often let outsiders in

Slate

I'm bird, and I'm community. Do I count?

7

thejonymyster

15:17

We asked this bird for his thoughts on the matter...
*sound of microphone clipping from being pecked at repeatedly*
Needless to say, he was not happy.

Redwolf Programs

Oh neat, I found a prototype with improved graphics

Actually this prototype is pretty fun...it has a lot of the problems with the old one fixed

pxeger

15:45

Tor (network)

Tor, short for The Onion Router, is free and open-source software for enabling anonymous communication. It directs Internet traffic through a free, worldwide, volunteer overlay network, consisting of more than six thousand relays, for concealing a user's location and usage from anyone conducting network surveillance or traffic analysis. Using Tor makes it more difficult to trace the Internet activity to the user. Tor's intended use is to protect the personal privacy of its users, as well as their freedom and ability to conduct confidential communication by keeping their Internet activities ...

or any old vpn

or just a proxy

but tor is fun!

Redwolf Programs

16:23

CMQ: Curly braces, significant whitespace, or if .. fi? Or something else?

Aaroneous Miller

End every structure (if, for, while, etc.) with done. /s

while (1)
    if (a == 5)
        ...
    done
done

Redwolf Programs

...I'm currently doing that

D:

Adám

@RedwolfPrograms keywords with matching (not reversed!) ending keywords: if … endif

Aaroneous Miller

16:40

@RedwolfPrograms lol

@Adám That's how Vim does it: if ... endif, while ... endwhile, for ... endfor

Redwolf Programs

Would y'all consider ; to be acceptable for starting comments?

If it's not used for anything else

That's how assembly does it, and I dislike using # for it

And // has another meaning

Aaroneous Miller

Use " at the beginning of a line like Vim does

Adám

Use ⍝ at the beginning of a line like APL does

Aaroneous Miller

Use ghosts at the beginning of a line like Vyxal does

Adám

👻︎?

Aaroneous Miller

16:47

in Vyxal, Aug 11 at 20:27, by Aaron Miller

Ghost strings

in Vyxal, Sep 29 at 17:04, by Aaron Miller

I just realized that making a ghost string with #` is essentially Vyxal's version of a block comment

I think I've been codegolfing for too long. I keep thinking of ways to implement some little thing for Flipbit in Python and then going "nah, that's too long," forgetting that it's not a golfing challenge.

user

17:01

@pxeger Won’t work on school Chromebooks, I’m afraid

Kamila Szewczyk

@RedwolfPrograms i remember my course materials translating if .. fi as jeżeli .. ileżej

the reversing thing is kind of ridiculous and i probably wouldn't use it. i think it originates from bourne shell, and bourne was a madman anyways.

Redwolf Programs

Cursed language feature: You can use arbitrary strings as variable names, but it redefines the meaning of those string literals

E.g., var "xy z": 10 would make "xy z" into an identifier

So print("xy " + "z" + "xy z") would be xy z10

Aaroneous Miller

Too late, we're already planning on doing that

It'll work for numbers as well

Redwolf Programs

I meant in general, not specifically for capital-C-Cursed

Aaroneous Miller

oh

Redwolf Programs

17:15

But yeah, it'd fit in with the rest of that language :p

Aaroneous Miller

lol

Redwolf Programs

17:36

Is there a name for a complex number where the real and imaginary parts are both rational?

Sort of like a...gaussian rational? idk

Oh wait that's actually a real thing

Gaussian rationals

pxeger

18:12

Well shit

I have lost the entire contents of my hard drive

Redwolf Programs

:(

pxeger

Does anyone know any reason the first 17 megabytes of a drive might spontaneously turn to null bytes

And does anyone know why it couldn't have just been the first 16mb so that my FDE key wasn't destroyed?

@RedwolfPrograms it's not too bad, everything important exists in other places

Redwolf Programs

Well, you're smarter than me I guess

pxeger

But I don't have a proper one-click restore backup

It's all scattered

Redwolf Programs

My backup strategy somewhat resembles horcruxes

In that I have like seven of them and they each take a part of my soul in order to maintain

And one of them is a snake

thejonymyster

18:57

Thought you didn't like getting cuddly with snakes :O

Aaroneous Miller

19:07

@pxeger Don't play with magnets, kids!

emanresu A

An actual piece of CSS I found:

.no-select {
            -webkit-touch-callout: none; /* iOS Safari */
            -webkit-user-select: none; /* Safari */
            -khtml-user-select: none; /* Konqueror HTML */
            -moz-user-select: none; /* Old versions of Firefox */
            -ms-user-select: none; /* Internet Explorer/Edge */
            user-select: none; /* Non-prefixed version, currently supported by Chrome, Edge, Opera and Firefox */
            }

CSS, consistent? Nah.

Redwolf Programs

I've used that exact CSS before

Not exact, but close

The class name was different and I didn't have khtml

emanresu A

19:37

CMQ: Plural of Befunge?

thejonymyster

befungi

easily

Adám

20:06

@emanresuA Befungen, for sure. It is Germanic.

thejonymyster

yeah that is better

just googled what cmq stands for;
my actual answer is "befunges", for the record

for a quine, what counts as reading your own source code? if, for example, you defined a function F, and then did something like print(F) and it printed the contents of the function, would that be the program reading its own source code?

Adám

36

Q: What are our specific abbreviations and terms?

Newcomers to codegolf.SE are often compelled to ask what many of our abbreviations and terms mean. Let us list them here so this information always will be easily available. Return to FAQ index

thejonymyster

yay ! thank u

Adám

@thejonymyster No, it'd be the REPL doing it, unless the print(F) appears inside the program F.

thejonymyster

i meant the latter yeah

wait

program

Define function F( do nothing )
Print (F)

output when run: "do nothing"

Adám

20:14

@thejonymyster Put your code in a separate message and press Ctrl+K before posting. ``` doesn't work.

emanresu A

@thejonymyster Well, it's a valid quine - that's where the JS f=_=>'f='+f comse from

thejonymyster

@Adám gotcha

the formatting didnt matter so much here so im not gonna mess with it too much but noted

@emanresuA right ok, ty

:D

emanresu A

Why I asked

thejonymyster

ah lol

thats a clever challenge haha

Aaroneous Miller

@emanresuA talk about befungiesen

Sandbox Posts

20:25

0

A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

Unicode Calendar Generator Given a valid date as year, month and day, returns a fancy unicode calendar as such: For october ╔════════════════════╗ ║ October ░░░░░ 2021 ║ ╟──┬──┬──┬──┬──┬──┬──╢ ║░░│░░│░░│░░│01│02│03║ ╟──┼──┼──┼──┼──┼──┼──╢ ║03│04│05│06│07│08│09║ ╟──┼──┼──┼──┼──┼──┼──╢ ║10│11│12│13...

DLosc

@pxeger Hmm, seems about right

DLosc

20:59

@RedwolfPrograms Curly braces, significant whitespace, end each block with end, or matching non-reversed delimiters like Adám suggested. Don't do if ... fi, please. :P

thejonymyster

why not if ... fi it sounds fun

makes for more interesting reversed programs

DLosc

It's overly "clever" and just adds the overhead of having to think every time "now how do I spell that backwards...?"

Especially when the keywords get longer than 2 letters

(I'm assuming Redwolf is interested in a non-esoteric language. If it's esoteric, then by all means, make the syntax whatever you want.)

Adám

repeat … taeper

DLosc

while ... elihw

Catija

The Sheriff badge page should be fixed now. :)

hyper-neutrino

21:08

wait was there something wrong with it? didn't even notice lol

DLosc

@RedwolfPrograms Of course ;)

Wezl

@RedwolfPrograms if ... then ... else ... without a terminator

(sry Dlosc)

user

@RedwolfPrograms I quite like significant whitespace, but it really depends on what kind of language you have too

DLosc

^

Wezl

ideally, if/while will not be built into the language

user

21:22

If it's a language which usually has short statements, whitespace is amazing. But it would actually be more difficult to understand in a language like Java where expressions can and often do go on for multiple lines

DLosc

@Wezl QBasic has that, but only for single-line if statements

user

@Wezl Why not?

Wezl

@DLosc down with if statements!

user

Languages with a small syntax are really cool but that doesn't matter too much for a practical language

hyper-neutrino

make it so the next x tokens belong to the if block, and x is decided by a flag

Wezl

21:23

@user I meant built into the syntax

user

Yes, why not build them into the syntax?

Wezl

down with practicality! up with really cool!

user

@hyper-neutrino CMP: Should we banish hyper for this, should we exile him, or should we ban him?

@Wezl The really cool languages are the ones that are both cool and practical :P

Wezl

@user how about promote him to mod

user

But you now what they say: You can't have your cake and tea too

@Wezl Good idea, permanently ruin any chance he has at getting a life :P

Wezl

21:27

I mean it's already permanently ruined

user

@RedwolfPrograms You might have an unintentionally created eighth one hanging around :P

I almost feel sorry for hyper now :(

Wezl

what's the point of diamonds you can't mine obsidian with

hyper-neutrino

@user keyword is almost

Wezl

@user bc they depend on a specific kind of boolean, but say the user wants to change to a different kind of boolean or name a function if

Adám

@DLosc How about both if … endif and if … end being valid?

DLosc

21:39

Yeah, that's fine too. I have a slight preference for end if over endif, but I guess that might cause parsing issues unless you also have some rules about whitespace.

My syntax preferences are often QBasic-flavored.

But being able to define multiline anonymous functions using curly braces (e.g. JavaScript, Scala) is really nice, and I'm not sure there's a good-looking syntax for doing that without some kind of symbolic delimiters.

Adám

"But"?

DLosc

QBasic-flavored = delimit blocks using keywords, not curly braces; but, here's a good reason to use curly braces

Adám

I don't see a problem with using braces for anonymous functions but keywords for control flow. That's in fact how Dyalog APL does it.

DLosc

Hmm

Neil

@emanresuA well, that's assuming you consider it to be a valid quine, which I don't

Wezl

21:46

I like braces

DLosc

They're uncomfortable, but they do give you straighter teeth eventually

Wezl

I meant the shape

DLosc

;)

Wezl

I mean braces the objects are cool too, but I've never tried them

I've tried "Stalin braces": remove all crooked teeth => straight teeth

Adám

I was supposed to have braces, but never got them. And now people frequently comment on how nice my teeth are.

thejonymyster

21:49

@Neil thats kinda how i feel too, im wondering where the site stands though

Adám

@Wezl Isn't it try than in an empty ~~set~~ mouth of teeth, all the teeth are crooked ?

DLosc

Yes, but it's also true that all the teeth are straight. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Wheat Witch

My teeth are pretty messed up but my dentists have always insisted that I don't need braces.

Wezl

A python dentist? I'm surprised that a constrictor would become a dentist

yes I know that that is a horrible squashed mess of a joke

If you're smart enough to understand my stupidity, come collect your FREE PRIZE

DLosc

TIL: Peter the Great of Russia put a tax on beards

user

22:20

@Wezl I don't really see how often you would need a different kind of boolean. Besides, it'd be easier to use an interface or typeclass to convert to booleans instead

@Adám I mean, all of the teeth would also be flatulent 5-dimensional 10 mile tall unicorns ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

@DLosc Perhaps fn param1, param2 to ...multiline body... end?

Redwolf Programs

@Adám Who goes around commenting on other people's teeth lol

@emanresuA I wouldn't consider that valid personally

Stringifying a function is basically reading its source. To the point where you can write programs that behave differently depending on what comments it includes.

user

@RedwolfPrograms Adám must be one of those people in toothpaste commercials with teeth so white and shiny they look backlit :P

DLosc

22:37

@user I can't decide if I hate it or not :P

map(fn (n)
  if n mod 2 = 0
    return n / 2
  else
    return 3 * n + 1
  end if
end fn, range(1, 100))

user

I definitely hate it now lol

Using multiline structures that depend on whitespace inside parentheses does not look nice at all

Redwolf Programs

@DLosc A reverse beard tax managed to sneak its way into that article, too

> In 1936, the Kingdom of Yemen introduced a "no-beard tax," allowed men with clean-shaven faces to pay a tax in lieu of growing a beard.

Adám

DLosc

@user I mean, it doesn't have to depend on whitespace. Though if it doesn't, I guess the block-end keyword needs to be just end.

user

True

DLosc

22:41

map(func (n) => if n mod 2 = 0 return n / 2 else return 3 * n + 1 end end, range(1, 100))

Nah, end end looks far sillier than }}

user

end by itself feels useless to me, but I like it when you can write end name_of_big_thing, because braces are kinda indistinguishable, even if IDEs help out a bit

DLosc

Very true.

I also like in QBasic how you can (optionally) write the name of the FOR loop variable at the end, as in FOR i = 1 TO 10: NEXT i

I've sometimes seen people doing the same thing with comments in C-like languages.

user

@Wezl Here's an example of what it might look like if you simply had a typeclass to convert to Booleans. (Pretend myif (...) {...} myelse {...} is a normal Scala construct)

@DLosc I think clang-format can do that automatically too, which is very nice

range(1, 100) map do n
  if n mod 2 = 0 then n / 2
  else 3 * n + 1
  end if
end map

@DLosc ^ Looks terrible but slightly more pleasing imo

(I removed the return statements because I just prefer implicit returns)

DLosc

Basically adding map as syntax, rather than it being a higher-order function

user

No, just letting users make two-argument functions infix

DLosc

22:55

Then it should be end do rather than end map, no?

user

Nim and D let you do foo bar baz instead of foo.bar(baz), this would be an extension of that

@DLosc But the do belongs to the map, and end do is less informative

Redwolf Programs

lol y'all made my script play lyxal's fridge sound in tune to the music I was listening to

user

???

Redwolf Programs

I have a user script that makes pinging play a sound clip of lyxal's fridge instead of the normal one

And I have pings on for every message

user

Why do you hurt yourself so?

Redwolf Programs

22:57

And the fridge sounds played at just the right moments that it sounded like it was part of the song

@user f r i d g e

DLosc

@user Is there also going to be end filter, end fold, end takeWhile, end sort, etc?

user

Yeah

DLosc

... Not a fan, TBH

user

The x in end x wouldn't be special, it'd just be the name of whatever function you were calling using a do black or the class/method you were defining

Would end do be better?

DLosc

I'd still prefer fn ... end fn (or func maybe)

do sounds like it should be a loop

user

22:59

What about named functions? fn func_name (params) ... end func_name?

Adám

@user What if the user wants to write their own higher-order function?

user

@DLosc True, was borrowing it from Haskell (and Ruby, I think?)

@Adám wdym? map would be a user-defined higher-order function

DLosc

@user I could get used to that. I think my instinct if I were designing the syntax would be end fn func_name with func_name being optional, like the next i loop terminator. But that is a little wordier.

user

I'm thinking ! or some other symbol could be used instead of end to make it look less verbose

One side effect might be that people would start naming their functions short names to avoid typing :P

Adám

@user Huh, didn't you want to make map built-in syntax?

user

23:05

No?

That would just be really annoying lol

thejonymyster

@RedwolfPrograms just make a script that makes the ping harmonize w/ whatevers playing

Adám

11 mins ago, by user

No, just letting users make two-argument functions infix

Ah, I see now.

DLosc

@user So, a symbol like... } perhaps? :P

user

@user Actually, how annoying would it be?

@DLosc :P

That'd be annoying without an opening curly brace..oh

lyxal

@RedwolfPrograms give script

Redwolf Programs

23:09

Wrong one

Sorry

yesterday, by Redwolf Programs

https://gist.github.com/RedwolfPrograms/285c1159032440d21745e9e852cad91e

user

\foo | param1 param2 param3 |
  ? bob | param1 == param2
    | param3
    | param1
  ? bob
\foo

That looks horrible, actually. It was supposed to be:

lyxal

@RedwolfPrograms this will go nicely with the plethora of other chat userscripts

user

fn foo(param1, param2, param3) => if (param1 == param2) param3 else param1

CMC: Play a fridge symphony for Redwolf using pings :P

lyxal

@RedwolfPrograms ^

DLosc

@user ... Who's Bob?

user

23:15

That's the name of the if block :P

I found it distasteful to say end bob, so I used ? bob instead

lyxal

@DLosc Bob mama!

Lmao gotem

DLosc

@user It's best not to name your code. Sooner or later, you'll have to execute it.

11

user

Not if you're lazy enough :P

lyxal

@DLosc of course you aren't a fan

You're DLosc

user

Back to your dad jokes, are you?

You'd stopped making them for a while

Are you expecting another child?

lyxal

23:34

@user I'm expecting many child nodes in my binary search tree

hyper-neutrino

fridge

►

Bubbler

23:48

Any feedback?

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