The Nineteenth Byte

user

00:02

So many of the challenges migrated here (sorry, I think it's 10k+ only) are deleted. The ones with high scores are mostly old ones from SO, and then there's some random challenge posted on CR, of all places, that got 5 votes

It looks like most of the questions migrated away were either to meta or SO

emanresu A

00:21

Hello! It's been a while...

Redwolf Programs

01:08

@user None of those appear to be from more recent than 2017

So I guess the problem has fixed itself :p

user

Oh good

Aaroneous Miller

02:01

@lyxal have you tried using GPT-generated text as a prompt?

emanresu A

I've left it for half an hour and it's still "Processing my creation"

Redwolf Programs

Can you tell how great Latin II is going? :p

That's an email I sent in response to an assistant principal asking us all how Latin II's going

emanresu A

Is the It's not going well :( accurate?

> Please help.

Oh wait

I thought it was AI-generated

Redwolf Programs

No, wish it was

emanresu A

No offence meant

Redwolf Programs

02:12

I do write like an AI :p

emanresu A

Then I realised you don't have access to GPT-3

Two more years...

Redwolf Programs

@emanresuA Wait, what part of that could I even take offense from :p

emanresu A

Idk

Redwolf Programs

I should have a tag wiki edit in the suggested edit queue, it's been there for like 2h

Can anyone see it there?

Adám

@RedwolfPrograms Approved.

Redwolf Programs

02:19

Hmm, odd. It (presumably) only showed user the wiki, and it (presumably) only showed you the excerpt.

Adám

It showed me both, and I approved both.

Redwolf Programs

Oh

Interesting, I wonder if /history just categorizes them both under the same review or if it's caching

Oh it's caching

Gotta love caching

Redwolf Programs

02:49

Do any mods (or CMs) know what a triple kick mute looks like? I know it alerts mods in some way, but have any of you seen it happen?

hyper-neutrino

it's just a flag that says that some user has been kicked from some room three times in a row

i forget who flags it (probably feeds) but it is just a normal mod flag

Redwolf Programs

Oh huh

hyper-neutrino

i also don't know what gets flagged

Redwolf Programs

I'd be really interested to look at the format of the event that gets sent when that happens, but unfortunately I don't think testing it would make people very happy :p

hyper-neutrino

i mean we could test it and i can just get rid of the flag right away; i wouldn't personally endorse it tho cuz someone still might see the flag in time

Redwolf Programs

02:56

I wonder what would happen if I send myself an event that looks like a mod flag

Aaroneous Miller

@emanresuA everyone’s 18 on the internet :P

(For legal reasons that’s a joke)

Redwolf Programs

Odd...I can't seem to get the flag indicator thing to appear when I send myself flags

Oh interesting

It makes a request to a /counters page that returns an updated flag count, which is of course 0

Considering trying to deobfuscate chat's source...it'd take ages, but could be somewhat fun and it'd be pretty useful for future projects to be able to analyze how chat works

And it's only 8708 lines when prettified...just a small number...

3

pVC aecidiospore adduced

04:04

CMC: Make Windows 10 Open Source

Sep 18 at 4:47, by pVC aecidiospore adduced

"When something is closed source, you disassemble it and you make it open source"
                                                                              - Newton, 1989

emanresu A

Well it's called "Windows", so just open it!

pVC aecidiospore adduced

ok done

pVC aecidiospore adduced

04:22

0

A: Im having a hard time trying to implent subscripts in python since im a bit newer

Assuming a and b are >0 ints. This is how you would do it for a. def nth_a(n): if n <= 0: return 10 return nth_a(n - 1) + 10 Try it online! For b do the same thing: def nth_b(n): if n < 2: return 1 return nth_b(n - 1) * 10 Try it online! If you have noticed, a...

^ when you use TIO for SO answers

and i wanted to know if thats correct

Jo King

The person probably wants an array

emanresu A

@pVCaecidiosporeadduced Did you even notice that the code doesn't work

int(input('enter a value:')

Look at the parentheses

pVC aecidiospore adduced

@emanresuA oh lol

ok hyper answered

emanresu A

Hyper's a nice person, although it's probably ggoing to get VTC'd :p

hyper-neutrino

oh SO is having an election coming up very soon

i'm... kind of tempted to run but it's probably way above my experience level especially given my low rep lol

Redwolf Programs

04:36

I feel like moderating on SO would be a lot less fun (not sure that's the right word) compared to CGCC

emanresu A

^

Huỳnh Trần Khanh

lol tbh I don't really like SO and SO has been less and less useful to me

emanresu A

^

pVC aecidiospore adduced

^

Redwolf Programs

Honestly I kind of think SO has answered most of the questions there are to ask

Beyond quirks of specific languages and weird compatbility issues, there's not much that debugging skills don't allow you to figure out on your own, so SO just ends up as 99% noise

hyper-neutrino

04:38

SO's moderation is definitely more janitorial and less community focused than here

pVC aecidiospore adduced

soo

hyper-neutrino

it's a lot more workload and getting through flags alone is already not really possible (i hear the flag count is up in the hundreds or thousands)

emanresu A

That's probably (at least partially) related to how we have one of the most actively changing rulesets & tags etc

hyper-neutrino

and i've dealt with a couple of socks and voting fraud issues here and there over the past year but you have voting rings of up to a hundred accounts or more there

Huỳnh Trần Khanh

@emanresuA wait I don't understand what you're saying

hyper-neutrino

04:41

i mean if i do run it wouldn't be the craziest thing i've applied for; i did formally apply for mod on meta and obviously there were much more qualified candidates than me lol

Huỳnh Trần Khanh

lol

emanresu A

@HuỳnhTrầnKhanh CGCC's rules, tags, etc are constantly changing, so we have a really active meta, and mods participate a lot in that.

Huỳnh Trần Khanh

ah ok

Redwolf Programs

I'd vote for you, since I think you've been a really great mod here, but I doubt you'd win with 4k rep :p

emanresu A

I'd vote for you... If I had enough rep, which I don't.

Aside from anything, I think I'm about halfway to a Q-ban there :p

Huỳnh Trần Khanh

04:45

😂

Redwolf Programs

I'm very surprised I have 900 rep there

Most of that's from one (pretty mediocre) answer

What the heck how do I have 40 answers on SO

hyper-neutrino

@RedwolfPrograms thanks :p that means a lot. but yeah i agree with you; rep aside i just like, don't participate on SO really

the only thing i have going for me is my mod experience here and moderation skills between large and small sites isn't too transferable

emanresu A

^

pVC aecidiospore adduced

^

hyper-neutrino

i was talking to cody gray a while ago and it's definitely a really different situation there and unlike here where i try to diligently take a good look at every flag and test answers myself and find policy pages for each decision, you pretty much have to skim through flags and scripts are really useful there

like here i don't even bother with userscripts for mod stuff cuz i just don't do enough for it to actually really accomplish anything

emanresu A

04:51

(Well, the second half. I've never been a moderator, and can't be for a few years.)

hyper-neutrino

oh wait, i forgot, SO's base requirement is much higher

emanresu A

@hyper-neutrino How much?

hyper-neutrino

well i am missing all four of the required badges lol

emanresu A

What are they?

hyper-neutrino

civic duty (voting), strunk & white (editing), deputy (flagging), and convention (meta)

which, of course, none of which i have cuz i stopped participating on SO a few years ago, before which i hadn't been an active member of its community anyway, just pretty much answering random things and occasionally asking

emanresu A

04:55

But everywhere else, 300 rep and no badges?

hyper-neutrino

believe so

lyxal

@hyper-neutrino laughs in having civic duty on SO

hyper-neutrino

i only need 26 more votes but i'm not gonna go arbitrarily voting to get a badge for an election i won't be able to run in even if i get it that i wouldn't win anyway that i really should not consider anyway :P

lyxal

my only concern for you nominating for the SO moderacy is that you'd have less time to spend with us

which would be sad

because we like having you here

emanresu A

^

hyper-neutrino

04:59

really the only reason i'd consider it is cuz i want to help handle stuff there cuz i know their flag count is permanently high, i have time on my hands because i have very little moderation to do here when meta is quiet, and i have the experience with the tools themselves, but just not with SO and its site culture

Redwolf Programs

I just speedran a duolingo lesson in order to do it in the two minutes before midnight so I wouldn't lose my streak

4

hyper-neutrino

@lyxal dw i like being here with y'all too so i wouldn't sacrifice all of my time here :p but yeah you don't have to worry about that; i'm vastly underqualified

@RedwolfPrograms that's one of the things i don't like about duo

it doesn't exactly promote the best learning practices with its gamified system :P but still gj lol

Redwolf Programs

in CG&CC-gaming, Dec 21 '20 at 5:46, by Redwolf Programs

I forgot yesterday and an owl has been following me. I keep hearing screams and finding people who look like me dead on the ground, a look of terror on their face with threats scratched into nearby walls in perfect spanish.

emanresu A

11

Q: Why was 61,408 reputation required to run in the 2011 election?

I was just going through old election pages, and noticed something weird in the sidebar of the 2011 moderator election: This number only seems to show up in the 2011 election; in later elections, the correct, expected value of 3,000 shows up. Why was 61,408 reputation required to run in the fi...

caird coinheringaahing

@RedwolfPrograms As an RO, I've seen it (in fact, I've been the third kick), but it doesn't do anything noticeable beyond a drop down saying "this user was kicked for the third time; a moderator flag has been raised" IIRC

It has been a few years tho, so my memory may be completely wrong :/

hyper-neutrino

05:08

yeah that sounds right

i saw a third kick recently and that sounds about right for the RO dropdown and i think it was just a normal mod flag but i can't remember what gets flagged

caird coinheringaahing

@hyper-neutrino There is also the fact that mods have a minimum daily activity requirement on SO

hyper-neutrino

ah, yes, that too

caird coinheringaahing

For anyone wondering, the fact that I'm up at 6am this time isn't entirely due to unhealthy sleep patterns :P

hyper-neutrino

who are you and what have you done with caird

caird coinheringaahing

It's mainly due to the fact that me and my flatmates decided to drink "a lot" tonight (a lot for them, about average for me) and so I had to care for them for the past 2 hours or so as they bemoaned drinking this much

It doesn''t help that all of them turned 18 (legal drinking age) in 2021, and I'm 19, so I've got a year's worth of experience/tolerance on them

@hyper-neutrino It's alcohol based, I'm still normal caird :P

hyper-neutrino

05:12

of course it has to do with drinking

:P

caird coinheringaahing

For once tho, it wasn't me who drank too much :P

Shaggy'd be disappointed with me

I'm sat here mostly tipsy (think 3 beers in) and my flat is all fully passed out drunk :P

Tho, I do have a question I've been meaning to fix the mathjax/math formatting on for the past couple of days, so I should probably go do that

Redwolf Programs

It's kind of late here, I'll see y'all tomorrow! o/

caird coinheringaahing

\o

emanresu A

(My head and arms were stolen)

Wait, how did you get yours back?

lyxal

@emanresuA oh just trade deals

hyper-neutrino

05:24

7 hours ago, by lyxal

@user if I give you a 30% share of my stolen limbs will you stop your revolution?

lyxal

That deal is over

caird coinheringaahing

The trick is to not live in france, as Lyxal, being in Australia, cannot do trade deals with france unless they involve environmentally friendly submarines

hyper-neutrino

user needed the limbs to be able to stop himself from spinning

emanresu A

05:45

CMQ: Has there ever been an election where the winner won by 1 vote?

hyper-neutrino

there's been even closer than that

New Posts

0

Q: Lean golf: List Game (rev_rev)

The title is an homage of the Natural Number Game, which is a nice interactive tutorial into proving certain properties of natural numbers in Lean. Given that the previous two were slightly too involved (either mathematically or technically) for newcomers to Lean (i.e. the vast majority of CGCC c...

code-golf lean

Bubbler

@NewPosts Going through about half of the nat game is enough to solve this challenge

Huỳnh Trần Khanh

07:45

👀

lol

emanresu A

08:53

@hyper-neutrino ?

How can it be closer than 1 vote?

Oh tie/

pxeger

09:18

@emanresuA Bush v. Gore?

emanresu A

I meant SE election... nevermin

pVC aecidiospore adduced

CmC: Given a list of 2 inputs as position of a particle, every second (for 10 seconds), output the new position. The particle is only affected by gravity -0.01 in the y direction and wind towards left -0.05.

Wheat Witch

Those numbers don't have any units?

Gravity is an acceleration and wind is ...?

pVC aecidiospore adduced

are acceleration

@WheatWitch both ^

Wheat Witch

A little odd for wind to be acceleration seeing as the particle probably won't go faster than the wind.

This is just having gravity but mostly towards the left.

pxeger

09:24

@WheatWitch youtube.com/watch?v=jyQwgBAaBag

not necessarily!

Wheat Witch

That doesn't look like a particle.

pxeger

eehhh

Wheat Witch

And it acts by pushing off the ground.

pajonk

10:25

Looking for feedback on: codegolf.meta.stackexchange.com/a/23940/55372

emanresu A

Looks fine to me!

'night

Sandbox Posts

12:17

0

A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

Newton Polynomial A newton polynomial is a interpolation polynomial where the coefficients are found using the Newton's divided differences method. The relevant Wiki is here. Your task has two parts: Given a set of inputs and outputs to find and display the polynomial that describes the series. ...

lyxal

12:31

Unfortunately, I won't be stealing any limbs tonight due to the fact that my limb stealing organisation is under investigation by the authorities

I won't go into too much detail, but we noticed IRS agents snooping around our office waiting room

They must have finally caught onto our tax evasion strategies :p

o/

Sandbox Posts

12:44

0

A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

Lean golf: List Game Lv2 (suffix_is_in_tails) (will expand text later) theorem suffix_is_in_tails : ∀ (l1 l2 : list A), suffix l1 l2 ↔ is_in l1 (tails l2)

pxeger

13:05

@lyxal I was once in a similar situation, albeit with butter rather than limbs, and I found a great workaround. Simply start c- oh god what was that noise

they're here

I don't have much time

You need to tell everyone you're-

shit

no, this can't be happening

AAAAAAAAA

NOT THE WHEY, IT-

4

caird coinheringaahing

13:17

@emanresuA Code Review's most recent election was decided by 0.27 votes, or 0.04% of the total votes cast

Aaroneous Miller

14:36

Idk why y’all complain so much when lyxal steals your limbs. Just regrow them like I do smh.

user

You have limbs? I thought you were plat

Huỳnh Trần Khanh

lol

Aaroneous Miller

I have detachable limbs to allow me to codegolf

4

user

Good idea

Huỳnh Trần Khanh

last i checked you don't need limbs to write code

user

14:45

Only my eyes and fingers are detachable, I should get an upgrade soon

@HuỳnhTrầnKhanh It makes life a lot easier, though. Voice commands and eye movements are inefficient and telepathy is tiring

Aaroneous Miller

^

pxeger

@user do plats also have larynges, eyes, and brains?

user

idk, ask Aaron or emanresu

pxeger

@AaroneousMiller ^

user

I think plats communicate mainly through zlorking rather than voice commands or eye movements. Aaron seems to be more sophisticated than most if he has limbs too

user

15:47

I never thought an SO answer would ever mention CGCC :o (scroll to the bottom)

caird coinheringaahing

16:08

@user We get the odd mention from time to time over there :P

pxeger

@user Not to be confused with GCC, which is mentioned at the top of the answer

caird coinheringaahing

Especially from either Cody Gray or Peter Cordes, as they hang out here and post the odd machine code answer

user

Yes, machine code answers are very odd :P

@pxeger What, you mean CGCC isn't a version of GCC?!

pxeger

@user GCC already does C, so we should call it CGCC anyway!

user

+1

Let's petition to do that for even more confusion when people come to this site

caird coinheringaahing

16:12

I say we change the site acronym to C (GCC) :P

5

pxeger

Petition to rename the site to Code GNU Golf and Compiler Coding Collection Challenges

Adám

16:41

Did I miss any?

pxeger

Yes

caird coinheringaahing

Dyalog?

pxeger

99% of programming languages ever created are not in that table

caird coinheringaahing

But how many of them have logos? :P

pxeger

also, C++ has title="C+#+#" not title="C++"

hyper-neutrino

16:45

@emanresuA no, partial votes from redistribution

user

@Adám A lot :P

pxeger

3 mins ago, by pxeger

99% of programming languages ever created are not in that table

user

People are always telling me I should get better at smalltalk, so I was doing some "research" on it and came upon this video. I am now convinced that I should learn it

7 minutes of Pharo Smalltalk for Rubyists

►

caird coinheringaahing

@emanresuA Despite the fact that there must have been over 300 mod elections on the network, no election has ever ended in a tie

hyper-neutrino

this is one of the closest elections

user

16:50

@Adám Coq, Squeak, Fantom, Wax, etc. I think you must've gotten most of the more commonly used ones, though

caird coinheringaahing

CR's last election was closer:

4 hours ago, by caird coinheringaahing

@emanresuA Code Review's most recent election was decided by 0.27 votes, or 0.04% of the total votes cast

pxeger

@user Coq is there

hyper-neutrino

ah right

user

Oh, didn't see it

hyper-neutrino

yeah i only just remembered it was the CR one that people were talking about

Mast did later get added as a mod though lol

user

16:51

@Adám May I suggest putting them in alphabetical order (if you're presenting them or something)

Adám

@pxeger Fixed.

user

nvm

Adám

Fixed that as well.

caird coinheringaahing

@hyper-neutrino Yeah, and Tony Chan (on BH.SE) didn't :/

user

If you're making this as a resource, could you also link to the languages' pages? That'd be really cool

caird coinheringaahing

16:54

@hyper-neutrino BH has an election starting tomorrow, fingers crossed it won't be as tight this time :P

user

17:07

Why? Do you want our rivals, Code Review, to win the really-close-election competition? :P

pxeger

let's have a referendum to choose which site has the best election

caird coinheringaahing

@user Because each site only gets one close election, to be fair to the network as a whole :P

user

lol

We could engineer our own close election by having only me and ruse as candidates :P

caird coinheringaahing

ಠ_ಠ I'm writing an SEDE query to look for posts that need mathjax-updating, and it keeps bricking my browser for a few seconds whenever I click "Run"

> 6431 rows returned in 4520 ms

It's not even an especially large or complex query as well :/

Adám

18:10

@user They are in hue-order.

@user Done.

rak1507

18:51

I would use commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Kotlin_Icon.png for kotlin

why is purescript in the blue row? it looks black to me

Wheat Witch

@Adám I really like the Fish logo.

Adám

@WheatWitch Where do I find it?

@rak1507 That's the old logo.

Wheat Witch

Adám

@rak1507 Yeah, I guess I should move it. It is technically slightly bluish: #14161A

Wheat Witch

It says image not found but it you click on it it will take you there.

Adám

19:01

Right, got it.

@WheatWitch Wait, Fish isn't really a programming language, is it?

Wheat Witch

It is, just like bash or any other shell.

It's most divergent from other shells in its scripting features.

Adám

I've not included any shells.

Wheat Witch

Maybe ATS?

What is the bar for inclusion here?

Adám

Has a logo and not being completely dead, I think.

Wheat Witch

Well ATS clears those easily.

F* and Matita are pretty experimental and niche, but not dead.

rak1507

19:06

ats isn't completely dead? :P

matita is really pushing it

Wheat Witch

Yeah.

Adám

Matita isn't a programming language, afaict.

Wheat Witch

Hm?

rak1507

if matita isn't coq isn't either

Adám

Right, I was much in doubt about Coq and Agda.

But F* and ATS look good.

Wheat Witch

19:09

Oh wait you don't have the SWI Prolog nightmare owl! How did I miss that.

Adám

Hm, why isn't it on Wikipedia?

Wheat Witch

I don't know.

Lean also has a logo, but it's really boring.

It is on SWI's site, and if I hover over it it calls it a logo.

rak1507

raw.githubusercontent.com/danlm/QNial7/master/NialLogo.jpg lol

Adám

Ugh, no.

NARS2000 has one too.

rak1507

wdym, it's beautiful

Adám

19:13

@WheatWitch Yeah, I've avoided logos that are basically just lettering.

rak1507

Wheat Witch

I've never seen that before. I usually just see a portrait of ada lovelace used.

rak1507

it was what came up when I googled 'ada logo'

Wheat Witch

Well it's not like I spend a lot of time where I might see an ada logo.

Oh Swift!

That's a popular language.

Oh wait it's there.

Adám

19:35

@rak1507 But it doesn't seem official in any way.

emanresu A

@cairdcoinheringaahing Although later Mast got added so ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

hyper-neutrino

idk about BH but mast mostly got added cuz the newly elected mods and many people from the community asked the CM team to add mast in even though he technically lost by 0.27 votes

and since he wasn't last place and CR could use the extra help and he was definitely suitable for the task they accepted that

emanresu A

Can someone write a SEDE query to search for posts with score 68 / 419 / 6968 ?

hyper-neutrino

yeah it shouldn't be that hard

pxeger

but if you're planning to make them 69 / 420 / 6969, you'll be breaking the rules on voting

emanresu A

19:49

:(

@Adám You miseed Acc!!

user

@WheatWitch Does that count as a separate language from Prolog?

Wheat Witch

Dunno.

emanresu A

gtg, byte

pxeger

byte!

Adám

@user Not on my list.

user

19:57

@Adám Since SWI Prolog seems to be more an implementation/dialect of Prolog than a separate language itself, I was going to suggest adding Prolog, but there's no logo for that ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

You seem to have the Pharo Smalltalk logo already where Pharo seems to be a dialect of Smalltalk, so there's "precedent" for adding the SWI logo

Adám

@user Right. I general, I've tried to avoid implementations vs languages, but it is hard. I also have PicoLisp and Common Lisp.

Wheat Witch

SWI is also like the biggest implementation of Prolog.

user

True

Ooh, Crystal looks like a very interesting language: it's got Ruby-like syntax, supposedly performance close to C, macros, and an okay-looking type system

pxeger

I'm not a huge fan of Crystal's macro system

user

Any big flaws in it or just a matter of taste?

pxeger

20:02

It's not much of a flaw, but I think it fails to improve much on CPP

The way you write a macro is a very separate DSL from the language proper, which I don't like

user

So the macros are "dynamically typed"?

Oh. That's not a deal-breaker though

pxeger

ah, just looked at it again; it's not as bad as I remember

user

It's got null reference checks too, perhaps it has flow typing too

Wheat Witch

macros and type systems are hard to mix.

Hackett is the best attempt I've seen.

But I haven't gotten that deep into Hackett.

user

Racket dialect/extension/whatever it's called?

pxeger

20:06

it seems to be a properly separate language, but related, yeah

user

Ah

Looks like they just used Racket to make it

Adám

@user Done.

DLosc

@Adám Here's some more: Visual Basic, QB64 (QBasic itself doesn't appear to have a logo), Scratch; also a few Scheme implementations: Chicken, Kawa, MIT/GNU

Wheat Witch

Kotlin is still broken.

user

I wouldn't call it broken, I've seen that logo before, but the other one seems to be more official?

You can see the same one here

Wheat Witch

20:11

Oh, I figured it was an svg error.

DLosc

@DLosc Oh, and also SCM

Adám

@DLosc VB: I don't do MS's generic logos. QB64: Yes, I'll add that. Scratch: I don't do letterings. Kawa: Sure. MIT/GNU Scheme: Uh, that looks like more of an MIT logo than indicating Scheme.

DLosc

@Adám Scratch: I hesitated because I saw you'd said that, but then how it it different from awk? MIT/GNU Scheme: True, but it definitely indicates "functional programming" (I don't think I've seen a recursive logo before).

Adám

@DLosc Awk is an ellipse.

DLosc

@Adám Oh wow, I didn't even notice that! It's very pale.

@emanresuA Ha! Well, Bill is technically a mascot rather than a logo. He's also a copyrighted character, so my using him is a bit legally fuzzy (just like Bill himself).

@user I've got a Scala question that I asked in the Scala room.

Adám

20:41

@DLosc That's very boring. (I may be biased by 7×10 being 70.) I've added the others for now.

Thank you so much to everyone here for your contributions to my programming language logos list!

DLosc

You're welcome :)

CMQ for everyone: Which of those logos is your favorite?

Adám

A+ /s

DLosc

I think for me it's one of Racket, Clojure, or Swift

Adám

I like Elixir and Ruby because they manage to convey their name without any letters.

@DLosc Which one of the APL logo proposals do you think is best?

DLosc

20:58

@AaroneousMiller Super late, but I figured this out: it's because a jump knot is supposed to merge with the previous two knots. There is one previous knot (because each thread starts with an implicit self knot), but the attempt to reference a second previous knot results in an IndexOutOfBoundsException, which isn't caught until the main function, which believes that it was caused by something else (thus the weird error message).

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