The Nineteenth Byte

AviFS

10:00

Right!

A mindblowing way to see it with array syntax

Razetime

weird

but it's cool

AviFS

Run 1,2,3 to get:

1
2
3

So can you guess what running [1,2,3] gives you ;)

@Razetime Anything else?!

Razetime

i'm trying to get a cartesian product

AviFS

10:36

CENSORED

@Razetime Wait, were you doing that CGCC problem?

Or just for fun?

Razetime

nope

just for fun

it's a general subproblem in a billion questions anyway

AviFS

Ah okay

Well I should probably post this as an answer then

Wonder how to golf it more

jq -cn '{x:(1,2,3), y:(4,5,6)}|[.[]]'

But def feel free to use it for any subproblems!

TIO

Razetime

wow, that is great

rak1507

@AviFS remove the space :P

AviFS

It's actually trivial to map this to arbitrary dimensions, which is pretty cool!

Eg 3 dimensional TIO

Razetime

10:43

this is weird: Try it online!

AviFS

This also means you can use it to generate binary combos

@Razetime That's a bummer, but it does make sense!

0|{x:.,y:.,z:.}|[.[]] → [0,0,0]

1|{x:.,y:.,z:.}|[.[]] → [1,1,1]

2|{x:.,y:.,z:.}|[.[]] → [2,2,2]

And so, by the way mapping works in this lang:

0,1,2|{x:.,y:.,z:.}|[.[]] → output you see

And therefore

range(3)|{x:.,y:.,z:.}|[.[]] → output you see

@Razetime Make sense?

Razetime

that is annoying.

how would we make it work then

aha foudn it

[range(3)]|{x:.[],y:.[],z:.[]}|[.[]]

so wordy

AviFS

In this case, {x:(0,1,2),y:(0,1,2),z:(0,1,2)}|[.[]] might be shorter, not sure

There is something very wrong with this language though

It's like the opposite of Haskell, it's so mathematically inelegant

[x] & x[] are supposed to be inverses

@Razetime So as far as I can see, this shouldn't change anything

Razetime

yeah lmao

but it does

AviFS

To really spell out the silliness and make it obvious

[range(3)] | . | {a:.[],b:.[]}

DOES NOT EQUAL

[range(3)] | .[] | {a:.,b:.}

Which it absolutely is supposed to. The . should be the identity operator

But it seems like it's doing weird things in the context of the dictionary

pxeger

11:03

@AviFS .[] triggers an implicit loop. In the first one, you're triggering two nested loops, both over the range, and assigning to a and b separately, which creates a cartesian product. With the second, you're only looping over the range once, and assigning the same value to a and b

. is the identity operator; [range(3)] | {a:.[],b:.[]} == [range(3)] | . | {a:.[],b:.[]}

it's the position of .[] that's different

AviFS

@pxeger Maybe I sort-of-not-really get it?

Mind elaborating?

Here's a cleaner example to work with:

0,1|{a:.,b:.}

vs

{a:(0,1),b:(0,1)}

And now we're rid of the .[] issue. Just a simple stream

But it's the same problem

@pxeger

I was starting to think that maybe it had to with the fact that everything is passed by copy. Nothing is passed by reference. I remember reading something like that in the manual/wiki

So that in the second example you have two different objects, vs the first one you have two of the same object?

Or maybe that'd be a reference issue. I don't know, but that's where my head was going, bc I remember that the part of the lang looked a bit odd

> Assignment works a little differently in jq than in most programming languages. jq doesn't distinguish between references to and copies of something - two objects or arrays are either equal or not equal, without any further notion of being "the same object" or "not the same object".

So maybe that's not it

AviFS

Oh yes, of course!

@AviFS It's what I explained to Raze up here

And back then, I thought it was so obvious, haha

10 minutes later, and I was utterly perplexed by the same thing, lol

I really ought to go to bed

Thanks and good night all!

rak1507

goodnight

AviFS

I still do wonder if there's a more elegant way to set up [x] and x[] in the language so they can more reasonably act as inverses

Eg, what if streams looped over every reference to .

That would make 0,1|{a:.,b:.} equiv to {a:(0,1),b:(0,1)}

In turn 0,1|{a:.,b:.} equiv to [0,1]|{a:.[],b:.[]}

So in that respect at least, it'd be much cleaner

I wonder if there'd be any downsides elsewhere

Perhaps a different syntax to refer to . which would set up a loop, vs one which wouldn't

So maybe _ (or other) would do what I'm suggesting, whereas . would stay as is

Actually, I like that idea a lot!

No no, . should change, and _ should be the old dot, methinks

The inverse property is important

Oh wait, but the inverse property is already not preserved

Eg. [d[]] != d when d is a json object. Instead it returns the list of values in the json object

I give up. Back to bed!

pxeger

12:43

@AviFS sorry, I left lol

Browncat Programs

Is this jq?

Razetime

yes

Browncat Programs

Looks kinda cursed ngl :p

The syntax is very different from what I'd expect for a JSON-related language

Although I guess the syntax is probably more intended to feel sensible for people used to things like sed or awk

WHich I am not :p

exedraj

@BrowncatPrograms how are you? I don't think I've ever actually asked before

Aaron Miller

13:05

Apr 16 at 0:08, by Redwolf Programs

Why's everyone being so critical of Vyxal

exedraj

13:16

That gives me an idea

CMC: Talk using only your previous messages (i.e. transcript links)

rak1507

Aug 7 at 1:32, by rak1507

ok

exedraj

May 19 at 4:59, by lyxal

i'm just vibing to windows alert noises rn

rak1507

Jan 15 at 23:36, by rak1507

ok boomer

exedraj

Jul 23 at 23:28, by lyxal

Commit frick

Aaron Miller

May 26 at 0:21, by Aaron Miller

Lol. Priorities, right?

exedraj

13:23

Apr 12 at 5:22, by Lyxal

ikr

Browncat Programs

Jul 13 at 16:18, by Redwolf Programs

Wh...why

exedraj

Aug 29 at 9:22, by exedraj

Why not?

Browncat Programs

Aug 3 at 0:05, by Redwolf Programs

Good point

exedraj

13 hours ago, by exedraj

exactly

Aug 26 at 13:29, by exedraj

and with that, it's sleep tim

Aaron Miller

in Vyxal, Aug 20 at 13:04, by Aaron Miller

o/

exedraj

13:30

Apr 30 at 11:26, by Lyxal

o/ bye for now!

Browncat Programs

yesterday, by Browncat Programs

o/

Aug 2 at 2:36, by Redwolf Programs

Who classified 05AB1E as a legacy language lol

Jun 16 at 20:44, by Redwolf Programs

Moist random downvoters don't

Aaron Miller

in Vyxal, 2 days ago, by Aaron Miller

4 hours ago, by exedraj

Since when do we care about practicality?

pxeger

13:52

in Sandbox, 5 secs ago, by pxeger

Fools! I've found a way to say anything I like without searching!

Browncat Programs

May 1 at 20:12, by Redwolf Programs

Cheater :p

Aaron Miller

in ＴｈｅＭｏｓｔＣｕｒｓｅｄＲｏｏｍ, Aug 9 at 15:42, by Aaron Miller

That sounds like a horrible idea.

pxeger

in ＴｈｅＭｏｓｔＣｕｒｓｅｄＲｏｏｍ, Aug 9 at 15:42, by Aaron Miller

Let's do it.

Browncat Programs

Aug 1 at 16:51, by Redwolf Programs

I hate you now too :p

Wheat Wizard

Jul 15 at 16:11, by Wheat Wizard

@pxeger What is it? I'm dying to know.

pxeger

13:58

in Sandbox, 5 secs ago, by pxeger

I can't find that word anywhere in the transcript, so I can't tell you now :Þ

Aaron Miller

Aug 6 at 20:40, by Aaron Miller

beautiful.

Browncat Programs

Apr 16 at 2:11, by Redwolf Programs

Sandbox was a small part of it

Mar 17 at 23:02, by Redwolf Programs

You can always use the sandbox

pxeger

Jul 15 at 16:13, by pxeger

@WheatWizard Well if you'd scrounged better I'd have told you it already, but I guess you'll have to wait :þ

Nov 18 '15 at 19:28, by flawr

Nudge Nudge Wink Wink

Leaky Nun

Jul 13 at 9:27, by PyGamer0

CMC: Given x, y as inputs, calculate x^2 + y^2 + 2*x*y.

pxeger

2 days ago, by Browncat Programs

VTC as dupe

Aaron Miller

14:00

in Vyxal, Jul 12 at 19:43, by Aaron Miller

but this is too off-topic for the sandbox /s

Browncat Programs

May 10 at 20:39, by Redwolf Programs

Stolen :p

Wheat Wizard

Mar 2 '18 at 21:11, by Wheat Wizard

This is why I don't like the sandbox

Browncat Programs

Feb 25 at 1:00, by Redwolf Programs

All unallocated RAM belongs to Lyxal

Jun 1 at 4:20, by Redwolf Programs

Was there context? Or was it just...that?

pxeger

in Sandbox, 2 mins ago, by pxeger

(context: https://chat.stackexchange.com/transcript/message/59045660#59045660)

Aug 30 at 6:18, by pxeger

Could we unpin https://chat.stackexchange.com/transcript/message/58962070#58962070?

Aaron Miller

Aug 12 at 16:12, by Aaron Miller

@user bruh

Browncat Programs

14:05

Apr 27 at 22:51, by Redwolf Programs

Wow, I had no idea chat search was that bad

Aaron Miller

Jul 28 at 3:23, by Aaron Miller

lmao yeah

pxeger

Aug 28 at 18:51, by user

(/s no offence, creators of chat and JS)

Browncat Programs

5 mins ago, by Browncat Programs

May 10 at 20:39, by Redwolf Programs

Stolen :p

pxeger

May 10 at 20:39, by Redwolf Programs

Stolen :p

Browncat Programs

35 secs ago, by Browncat Programs

49 mins ago, by exedraj

CMC: Talk using only your previous messages (i.e. transcript links)

pxeger

14:06

May 10 at 20:39, by Redwolf Programs

Stolen :p

May 10 at 20:39, by Redwolf Programs

Stolen :p

Aug 22 at 20:03, by Dude coinheringaahing

I thought that was lyxal?

Browncat Programs

May 9 at 20:27, by Redwolf Programs

I don't anymore

pxeger

yesterday, by exedraj

well what does it mean?

Browncat Programs

Jun 1 at 4:10, by Redwolf Programs

Stop stealing my entire life

pxeger

Aug 24 '18 at 2:43, by ASCII-only

~~you have no life~~

Anush

hi @rak1507

Browncat Programs

14:09

Jun 27 at 21:11, by Redwolf Programs

Quick reminder, btw: Don't click "not sure" for chat flags in languages you don't know, because it counts as a fraction of an "invalid" response

pxeger

Apr 21 at 1:04, by Redwolf Programs

Aw, you ruined it :(

Browncat Programs

@pxeger No, you did

You've been using other people's messages >:|

pxeger

lol

I am everyone

They're all me

They're all my messages

@NewPosts can we get some VTC's?

Aaron Miller

@NewPosts y code-bowling tho?

pxeger

who knows

because you can't post a question without at least one tag, so they just clicked the first one that was suggested?

Aaron Miller

14:13

makes sense

Anush

@pxeger thanks for the python code! I think there is a problem though because f("foo", "foooo") returns an error.

I have now lost the original so I can't test if that does the same thing

pxeger

@Anush no error here

Anush

@pxeger sorry print(f("foo", "fooooo"))

I missed out an o

pxeger

It might have been supposed to be ato.pxeger.com/…

but I'm not sure if that's right

Browncat Programs

Lol now it's in the reopen queue

m90

14:20

@pxeger Yes, that is the correct change. (This is a result of it having been translated from JavaScript, which was more lenient.)

Anush

@pxeger that looks good. Curiously rak1507's code has the same problem so I was wondering if it was also a problem with the original code

pxeger

CMC: given a list of integers, find the first point in the list at which the cumulative sum is the greatest, and output the index of that point. E.g. (0-indexed) [3, 0, 1, -1] -> 2

Edge cases:

[] -> 0
[0] -> 0
[-1, -2, -3] -> 0
[1, 6, 0] -> 1

m90

@Anush Yes, that flaw was present in my first otherwise-working version.

Anush

@m90 interesting. Do you blame the original code?

m90

@Anush No -- it was correct in the original code, because that was in JavaScript, where out-of-range indexing yields undefined; I missed that that was possible in that specific part when converting to Python.

Anush

14:29

ah good catch. Thanks!

do you agree with the ato.pxeger.com/… as an accurate translation?

@m90 ^^

Aaron Miller

@pxeger Vyxal, 4 bytes: ¦:Gḟ

m90

@Anush Yes, that looks right.

Anush

@m90 excellent!

now to understand it... :)

pxeger

@NewPosts The more I look at this, the more it looks like plain spam

There's no question being asked, and as far as I can tell, there isn't even any problem

I think they're either just saving their code here for some reason, or trying to subtly advertise the website they're working on

Anush

@pxeger the li() function is weird. It takes a string as its first argument in li(b, i + j - 2) and a list of integers in li(t, len(b) - len(a) + 2)

pxeger

14:43

it takes any container

for a string, it gets the character at the given index; for a list of integers, it gets an integer

Anush

yes :)

pxeger

what's weird about that then?

Anush

@pxeger I guess it could be two different functions

do you understand the role that [4, 4, 1, 2, 3] is playing?

or do you @m90 ?

pxeger

haven't a clue on that, no sorry

Anush

no. I am working on it :)

I meant "no problem"

pxeger

15:06

@NewPosts ??

DLosc

@JoKing I had 50 :)

Also: I was surprised to find out that a Quipu factorial program overflows on larger inputs, since the Esolangs page claims that Quipu has "two simple data types: big integer numbers and strings." But sure enough, the reference implementation uses Int, not BigInt. I wonder whether the Esoteric IDE implementation uses unbounded integers.

Aaron Miller

15:24

@DLosc ~~It only supports big ints, not bigints~~

hyper-neutrino

→ 1 message moved to The Nineteenth Bakery

what ingredients do we still need

Browncat Programs

Chocolate chips, sugar, milk, probably some more flour to compensate for the massive amounts of butter we've put in

Aaron Miller

Who doesn't love a buttery cake?

pxeger

Depends what we're actually making

We could make brownies so caird can use them for points

Browncat Programs

Ooh let's do that

We need lots of chocolate, then

pxeger

15:38

Good brownies have lots of butter

And ideally, walnuts

Browncat Programs

@pxeger Luckily we have plenty of that

(glares at IGS)

Adám

@hyper-neutrino cinnamon

pxeger

in brownies?

hyper-neutrino

what on earth are we even making in the first place

pxeger

I suggested brownies

Aaron Miller

15:46

20 hours ago, by Dude coinheringaahing

I'm restarting my cake :P

@hyper-neutrino its a cake

pxeger

brownies are cake

Anush

@pxeger This part "li(t, j + 1) or 4" is confusing me

is that a logical "or" ?

pxeger

short-circuiting logical or, yes

the li function returns None if the index is out of range; None is falsey, so if the index is out of range, or 4 gives 4 as a default value

Anush

ah

Dude coinheringaahing

And I've only added 100g of butter and 250g of flour, so anyone can work from there :P

Anush

15:47

otherwise what does it equal?

Aaron Miller

> Brownies are not classified as cakes.

source

Anush

chocalate brownies are really easy to make taste fantastic

pxeger

@Dudecoinheringaahing can we make brownies, so you can distribute brownie points?

Dude coinheringaahing

→ Crack 6 eggs into the mixing bowl, mix in well

pxeger

@Anush the texture is the difficult part

Anush

15:49

@pxeger of brownies? I disagree. The oven does it for you. You just have to time it correctly

pxeger

@Dudecoinheringaahing my family recipe calls for 6 eggs, do you want to edit that in?

Adám

@pxeger How is your username pronounced?

pxeger

@Anush the timing is the hard part lol

you need to know your oven well

Anush

@pxeger no..25 minutes :)

you can always use a thermometer if your oven might be broken

METRICCUPS
375 grams soft unsalted butter
375 grams best-quality dark chocolate
6 large eggs
1 tablespoon vanilla extract
500 grams caster sugar
225 grams plain flour
1 teaspoon salt

Dude coinheringaahing

@Adám @pxeger We need answers, we kept referring to you as "orange lightbulb" because neither of us could pronounce it :P

pxeger

15:50

@Adám /pʰə̆ɡsɛˈgə/ if you read IPA

Adám

Peggsger, got it.

Dude coinheringaahing

@Anush Pff, I'm not following a recipe with this baked good :P

Anush

@Dudecoinheringaahing which baked good??

pxeger

@Adám but the px bit is really short, like the pol in police (but with gz not l)

Dude coinheringaahing

@Anush The one I'm making with trashed messages :P

pxeger

15:52

@Adám more like pg[z|s]egger

Anush

@Dudecoinheringaahing :)

my recipe above is perfect and unless you have a terrible oven will make perfect brownies

Adám

@pxeger Uh, not sure my mouth can handle that consonant cluster.

Anush

but you must whisk by hand!! No machine please

Adám

@pxeger Is that emphasis on the last syllable?

pxeger

@Adám from a Danish speaker? wow I must have made it hard

@Adám for me, the middle syllable (pgs-EGG-er)

Adám

15:54

@pxeger Heh, we just slur everything together.

@pxeger Hm, I'd write p'GSEGG-er.

pxeger

I'm someone who eggs pugs

Adám

@Dudecoinheringaahing Then again, how do you say coinheringaahing?

pxeger

@Adám that might be what you're finding difficult; try saying just "pg" on its own with little to no vowel in between, and add "zegger"

Adám

(I think that has been discussed previously.)

pxeger

@Adám co-in-hear-ing-aah-ing

20

A: The many users of CGCC

"caird coinheringaahing" comes from this Jelly answer. Given that the answer is written in Jelly (my primary language on the site), and the challenge is very much about the site, I thought that it'd be a fun, unique username that references the site. And it should be pronounced "cared co-in-hear-...

hyper-neutrino

15:57

iirc i confirmed with caird that coin-herring-aa-hing is valid? or am i dumb

Adám

@pxeger Oh. Thanks.

Dude coinheringaahing

@Adám I say "coin-herring-aah-hing", but that's canonically wrong

@hyper-neutrino That's how I say it, but it's wrong :P

pxeger

in my head, I actually say "co-in-mumble..."

Dude coinheringaahing

I say "caird" :P

Or rather "cared" :P

Which I'll be going back to tomorrow, along with Patch as my pfp :P

pxeger

@Dudecoinheringaahing bin juice?

Dude coinheringaahing

16:00

Yes, I'm making a bin juice cake :P

Aaron Miller

tfw you golf something that works, and it stops working, so you Ctrl+z it back to how it was, and it still doesn't work.

Dude coinheringaahing

s/golf/code :P

pxeger

@Dudecoinheringaahing youtu.be/rP9hn3PsHuw?t=102

Dude coinheringaahing

Got to love TM :P

Anush

how can I convert this to an image file? wikimedia.org/api/rest_v1/media/math/render/svg/…

Adám

16:08

@Anush Easiest is to take a screenshot.

Anush

@Adám thanks

pxeger

@Anush with rsvg-convert; I'll do it for you:

i.sstatic.net/0GFzG.png

Anush

@pxeger ah thanks

pxeger

if you need higher resolution I can do that too

Anush

@pxeger that's perfect, thank you

Adám

16:11

@Anush Do you have Microsoft Word, by any chance?

Anush

@Adám sadly no

@pxeger the li() function takes negative values and returns letters from string 2. That's quite odd too :)

because s[-2] will give a value from s

Shaggy

@Anush You could run it through convertio.co, or similar.

Anush

@Shaggy nice link, thanks

DLosc

@AaronMiller I like BigInts and I cannot lie

5

pxeger

16:30

@Anush that's just Python indexing; negative numbers count from the end of the string

"abcdef"[-2]" is "e"

@DLosc You other brothers can't deny

Anush

@pxeger yes but why is that ok for this code?

pxeger

@Anush hmm, at a guess I'd say it's not actually

try this: ato.pxeger.com/…

Anyone here seen SPWN, a programming language that "compiles" to... Geometry Dash levels?

Aaron Miller

16:51

Jul 24 at 0:04, by Aaron Miller

How I made Brainfu▓▓ in Geometry Dash

►

Wezl

CMC: Set your pfp to a qr code.

disregard the fact that this will make everyone hard to distinguish

Aaron Miller

17:16

does python3 on TIO not support the walrus operator? I can get it to work on my machine, but then the same code breaks on TIO, saying bad syntax

DLosc

@AaronMiller This version does.

Which is the most up-to-date version of Python available on TIO.

Aaron Miller

noice, thx

DLosc

The version on Attempt This Online is currently 3.9.6, if you want something more recent

Browncat Programs

Once RTO's finished in a few decades it'll have a way to choose between a whole bunch of versions

And probably some sort of auto-updating for popular languages

DLosc

Cool, I'll look forward to running my Python 4 code there ;)

Browncat Programs

17:30

Although Python 1's the only one anyone really needs if you ask me :p

DLosc

Ah, a purist :p

Razetime

@Bubbler regarding constraint system #18762389

what's the system used for indicating positives and negatives

Aaron Miller

@BrowncatPrograms Real programmers use ~~butterflies~~ python 0

Razetime

@Bubbler it's said that the antidiagonals encode all the integers so I was thinking of something along the lines of {(⍴⍵) ⍴ binpat[⍋,+/↑⍳⍴⍵]}

Browncat Programs

If you have a list of tasks which start and end as specified times, is optimizing how many people you need in order to do them NP-complete?

E.g., if you have 2-to-4, 4-to-8, 3-to-6, 7-to-8, and 1-to-5, you'd optimally need three people: 2-to-4 and 4-to-8, 3-to-6 and 7-to-8, and 1-to-5

Actually the approach of just putting them in slots wherever they fit, in order of largest to smallest, is probably optimal

DLosc

18:01

You could model it as a graph-coloring problem, which is NP-complete in the general case, but I'm guessing the specifics of this scenario may make it not NP-complete.

Dude coinheringaahing

@BrowncatPrograms Imagine not having a flag in your language to indicate what version to use. Made by the Add++ --version= gang :P

DLosc

I don't have to imagine. Made by [every language I've made so far] gang. =P

Browncat Programs

@DLosc I'm pretty sure just filling them in from largest to smallest wherever there's room is either optimal or close enough to optimal that I don't care :p

This is for optimizations for a language I'm writing so it doesn't need to be perfect

DLosc

@BrowncatPrograms Pfff, pragmatism is no fun :P

Dude coinheringaahing

SE's plan for not abandoning FP review progress

Looks like people with Reviewer in FP will get 250 reviews carried over into FQ and FA (each? Not sure). If you're WW or DJ, it's slightly more complicated

DLosc

18:12

IDKWYM :P

Browncat Programs

Looks like, if you have under 250 FP reviews, they're just split into FQ and FA how you'd expect, which is what will happen for most people

Dude coinheringaahing

@DLosc FP = First Posts review queue (retired in favour of FA and FQ). FA = First Answers review queue. FQ = First Questions review queue

WW = Wheat Wizard. DJ = DJMcMayhem

DLosc

@Dudecoinheringaahing OIC :)

Browncat Programs

This is really strange...my laptop seems to slow down and have massive input lag (more than 10s sometimes), but only in my school cafeteria

pxeger

18:33

> In the recent post [...], we wrote that we did not plan on [...]. The initial decision was made based on an estimate of the amount and complexity of work that would be needed to make this happen. The response to this was overwhelmingly in protest of this decision. We realize now that this is an area that was deserving of another look and examination to see if/how we can find a solution that will be satisfactory
> As I begin to work on this, I would like to present the proposal here for feedback.

Who are you and what have you done with SE?

Dude coinheringaahing

I will say that Yaakov is probably one of the best members of the PubPlat team when it comes to listening to feedback and genuinely making changes based on that

That's not to say that the others don't, just that Yaakov is definitely the most visible

pxeger

Yeah, I realised after I posted that, that the answer is "because Yaakov" :)

pxeger

20:07

...the margin of this stack exchange question is not large enough to contain my proof of the Riemann... — neph 39 secs ago

haha

rak1507

@BrowncatPrograms some sort of weird interference?

emanresu A

20:44

Hi?

rak1507

hi

user

21:46

@BrowncatPrograms Perhaps the hub thingamajig in the cafeteria is connected to a different Internet tube thingamajig?

@Wezl Oh not this again

emanresu A

Yes (no) maybe

user

Jul 16 at 20:19, by user

dad

DLosc

May 6 at 3:09, by DLosc

Haha, fun ^__^

Transcript for