The Nineteenth Byte

Browncat Programs

15:00

Okay there's no two byter in Ash AFAICT

Plenty of three byte ones though

Likely upward of a couple dozen

Dude coinheringaahing

I can get 3 bytes in Jelly as well, but not 2

Aaron Miller

I can get 3 bytes in Vyxal as well, but not 2

Wezl

what's the point of programming languages if they can't do such a simple task :P

Anush

what is the minimum for 65536?

@user41805 how do you do it in sed?

Wezl

a or i command

Aaron Miller

15:06

@Anush 2 bytes in Vyxal: k₴

user41805

@Wezl a and i give extra newlines, how do you do it without?

Wezl

um

pxeger

c?

user41805

yes

Anush

@Wezl could you show the sed line?

Dude coinheringaahing

15:07

@Anush 2 bytes in Jelly: ⁹²

pxeger

@Anush c65535

Anush

@pxeger got you

pxeger

@Dudecoinheringaahing how on earth does that work?

Wezl

gnu sed ig

Anush

@pxeger what is the full command line?

sed c65535 doesn't work

pxeger

15:09

@Anush echo | sed c65535

Anush

@Dudecoinheringaahing nice

Dude coinheringaahing

@pxeger If you make 92 smaller and higher, it's equal to 65536 :P

pxeger

@Anush sed doesn't do anything unless it has at least one line of input

Anush

@pxeger thanks

Dude coinheringaahing

(⁹ = 256, ² = squared)

Anush

15:09

@pxeger fussy tool :)

pxeger

@Dudecoinheringaahing that's 65536

Dude coinheringaahing

Yes

Anush

@pxeger yes it was an answer to my question

Aaron Miller

@Dudecoinheringaahing In Vyxal, 8^2 is 65536: Try it Online!

pxeger

oh I'm dumb

Anush

15:11

does anyone have any suggestions for my CMQ?

ngn

@Anush "if I give you one million.." - such a good start :)

Anush

@ngn :)

depends on the currency

Wezl

introducing my new currency, USD (US debt). Each USD is worth exactly -1 US Dollars.

Browncat Programs

VTC as dupe

I already asked about that in detail on worldbuilding :p

18

Q: A land where money is negative

For a story I'm writing, there will be an industrial-revolution type city, with mildly powerful technology. They will be just discovering electricity, using steam power, and making all of their currency coins. However, this is a supposedly "Backwards" place, since their money is Negative. As an e...

currency

Anush

@ngn there are BK-trees... who knows if they would help

blog.notdot.net/2007/4/Damn-Cool-Algorithms-Part-1-BK-Trees

Dude coinheringaahing

15:16

> 26 Answers

pxeger

> +27/-9

Dude coinheringaahing

I thought I was sorting by votes, saw that there were 26 answers and that the top answer had a score of 1 and went "Oh boy". Turns out I was sorting by active :P

Browncat Programs

The downvotes were from a land where downvotes are negative

4

Dude coinheringaahing

...so here? Downvotes are negative :P

pxeger

good point lol

Dude coinheringaahing

15:18

Do you mean a land where upvotes are negative? :P

> You can't build an economic system based on "Everyone's gonna be totally nice",

Welp, there go my plans for social revolution

pxeger

lmao

Browncat Programs

Communism-minus-the-authoritarianism, basically

pxeger

~~so, communism?~~ sorry I won't go there

Browncat Programs

To show colleges I can be a good leader, I conquered half the world and ruled it as an authoritarian leader, killing anyone who disagreed

Dude coinheringaahing

Sorry, we're going to have to reject you, that's not original enough of a portfolio, at least 20 other applicants have done the same

Browncat Programs

15:28

"Negative money" of sorts could actually work if all transactions occured through a computer

Aaron Miller

The blog post told me to come here and say hi.

Hi

Anush

@ngn do you think my CMQ could make a good challenge?

I would provide a list of 1 million binary strings in a gist and you score is the Hamming distance between the pair you find

lower score the better

ngn

@Anush i can't spend time on this but yeah, i think this would be one of the better challenges on cgcc

Dude coinheringaahing

@AaronMiller Well, emanresuA's been doing it so much, I figured that was the norm from now on :P

Anush

15:43

@ngn cool that you think that but sad you won't be able to try it

New Posts

0

Q: Find me vowels near you (not a hotel booking app)

Write a function that takes in a string and for each character, returns the distance to the nearest vowel in the string. If the character is a vowel itself, return 0. Vowels are : aeiou AEIOU For our case y is not a vowel Edge cases : You will be tested for empty string so : '' is a valid test t...

code-golf string math algorithm

the default.

@Anush but you can brute force it in a few minutes?

Anush

@thedefault. not (10^6*50)^2

unless you have a magic computer

if only we had mathjax here

@thedefault. are you thinking of a method other than comparing all pairs?

the default.

popcnt(a^b) should only take a few clock ticks, and my computer has multiple threads

Anush

@thedefault. sure... it's still a very large number. (What is a^b)?

the default.

15:47

bitwise xor (and no, it's not a large number; after doing a bit of math, I still think 'a few minutes' is a good estimate)

Anush

it's about 2^40 comparisons

maybe 2^39

the default.

one core can probably do 2^29 in a second

Anush

@thedefault. which language is this in?

I could change it to Levenshtein distance to make it harder

or 10 million strings

@thedefault. ^ is really overloaded

the default.

16:01

timed it, took 51 seconds. 100 times as much time still isn't a lot, and this was done on a CPU. The Levenshtein distance is painful to compute and probably even less likely to lead to any fast non-bruteforce approaches.

Anush

@thedefault. thanks for timing it! Was this 10^6 binary strings of length 50?

the default.

10^6 binary strings of length 64 (I didn't mask them)

Anush

@thedefault. when you say painful to compute, what do you mean?

the default.

requires more complicated code and is harder to reason about

Anush

@thedefault. the code isn't too complicated but it is slower

51 seconds is faster than I thought though so that is really helpful

which language?

here it is in 107 languages :) rosettacode.org/wiki/Levenshtein_distance

the default.

16:09

C++ with OpenMP (also, my CPU doesn't have AVX512, which seems to have vectorized popcnt, which would make this even faster)

Anush

is back the only word made up of a,b,c and k?

@thedefault. very nice

Browncat Programs

All four of those letters or just a subset?

aback uses them all

Anush

I meant the only four letter word. you can use a subset

@thedefault. the C++ version rosettacode.org/wiki/Levenshtein_distance#C.2B.2B

Browncat Programs

Yeah. That's significantly more complicated.

Anush

@BrowncatPrograms the back question or the C++ code?

Browncat Programs

16:13

The levenshetein distance code

Anush

got you

it's at the freshman level I think

Browncat Programs

"count the ones in the bitwise xor" vs. "28 sloc of loops and conditions"

Anush

@BrowncatPrograms yes that is true

Browncat Programs

We're not saying it's difficult to understand, it's just way more complex of an operation

Anush

but still simple

sure

Browncat Programs

16:14

Define "simple"

Anush

easy for a programmer to understand

and quick to implement

Browncat Programs

That doesn't look very quick to implement, and I probably wouldn't instantly recognize levenshtein distance

Anush

@BrowncatPrograms we could have a timed coding competition for it :)

Browncat Programs

That sounds boring, and probably already exists

Anush

you mean the competition already exists?

Browncat Programs

16:17

13

Q: Can you calculate the average Levenshtein distance exactly?

The Levenshtein distance between two strings is the minimum number of single character insertions, deletions, or substitutions to convert one string into the other one. The challenge is to compute the average Levenshtein distance between two independent and uniformly random chosen binary strings...

string math combinatorics fastest-code

Anush

in fact, I think we don't have a jelly implementation

can anyone fix that?

@BrowncatPrograms that's a very different question

Browncat Programs

How?

It's levenshtein distance of binary strings, right?

Anush

@BrowncatPrograms it is asking about the average distance

which is a much harder question

the default.

in fact there's a faster-than-bruteforce solution for it

Anush

"The challenge is to compute the average Levenshtein distance between two independent and uniformly random chosen binary strings of length n each. "

Browncat Programs

16:19

Didn't notice that, yeah

Anush

@thedefault. yes. Its very clever and a little hard to understand

Browncat Programs

A challenge is not interesting just because the task is hard to understand

Anush

@BrowncatPrograms that is a fact

did anyone suggest otherwise?

Browncat Programs

Idk. I just don't think levenshtein distance is that interesting, especially for fastest code.

Anush

@BrowncatPrograms I think the opposite :)

Browncat Programs

16:28

CMQ: Other names for a generator function?

Dude coinheringaahing

I like "iterator"

Browncat Programs

I'm looking for one without the letter "e" in it :p

Aaron Miller

gnrator function

Codidact Posts

16:42

New Posts - Challenges - Code Golf: Make my value binary

posted on August 30, 2021 by Mark Giraffe

This challenge is currently in the beta. If given enough positivity, this challenge will remain here. If not, feel free to make changes and clear out misinformation in the

Dude coinheringaahing

@CodidactPosts Is the "This challenge is currently in beta..." message an automated part when moving from the sandbox on codidact?

tjjfvi

17:02

@BrowncatPrograms multi-val function

Or multi-output

Wheat Wizard

@BrowncatPrograms List.

pxeger

@BrowncatPrograms do you mean generator, or generator function?

Browncat Programs

Either

pxeger

so you just want to replace the word generator in those two phrases?

Browncat Programs

Mostly, yeah

pxeger

17:07

Why does it need to not contain e? lol

Browncat Programs

I don't like e

pxeger

uh ok

function*?

(à la JS)

Wheat Wizard

What do you mean by generator?

Is it not just a lazy list?

pxeger

kind of

Browncat Programs

Basically, yeah

pxeger

17:09

but in languages where list is an existing separate type with non-lazy semantics (e.g .Python), relating it too strongly to a list might be confusing

Wheat Wizard

I think function* has a worse version of this problem.

Dude coinheringaahing

@BrowncatPrograms Synesthesia?

pxeger

@WheatWizard well function* is, on its own, a terrible name in many ways

Browncat Programs

@Dudecoinheringaahing Yep :p

pxeger

but since JS already uses it, it might be a good suggestion

Browncat Programs

17:12

@pxeger The intended syntax isn't function* name, it's function *name. It's not much better, but still.

pxeger

> Yeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeep

FTFY

Wheat Wizard

I'd say by default if JS does something it's probably a bad idea.

Browncat Programs

I was about to reply to that but I'm actually struggling to find a good counterexample

pxeger

@BrowncatPrograms why on earth? That makes no sense to me lol

@BrowncatPrograms JS exists, but I wouldn't say existing is necessarily a bad idea (unless you have to coexist with JS)

Dude coinheringaahing

@WheatWizard JS allows you to add 1+1 :P

Browncat Programs

17:14

There's a lot of obvious things JS has that are good, it's bad wherever it tries to be unique

Dude coinheringaahing

I think that's the only counterexample, everything goes downhill from there :P

Wheat Wizard

JS is sort of a nice example of a prototyping language.

Browncat Programs

I like how new Boolean(false) is truthy but still == false, that's a good thing about it :p

Why does Array have .keys but not Object...

Why would you need the .keys of an Array

pxeger

for tersely constructing a range in code golf? lol

Browncat Programs

That's like the only use for it lol

Array.prototype[Symbol.iterator] = Array.prototype.keys; is fun

[...[].values.call({0: "a", 1: "b", 2: "c", length: 3})] is very cool

x => [...[].values.call(x)] takes an object with a length and turns it into an array

Wheat Wizard

17:20

You've reminded me of my favorite python code:

a=[1,2,3]
a[-1]+=a.pop()
print(a)

tjjfvi

That's [1,5], right?

...

Browncat Programs

I could see it being [1, 2, 6]

tjjfvi

Can you spoiler tag in chat?

Wheat Wizard

You cannot.

tjjfvi

Boo. It's [1, 6]

Browncat Programs

17:24

...

tjjfvi

Which makes sense if it's evaluated as a[-1] = a[-1] + a.pop()

Browncat Programs

Hmm, true

tjjfvi

In JS (with a[a.length - 1]) it's [1, 2, 6]

@BrowncatPrograms I think it's for parity with Set and Map, which both have .keys(), .values(), and .entries()

@WheatWizard Generators can often also have values piped back into them

Dude coinheringaahing

18:30

Ooh nice, it looks like the mod/staff badges have a darker border now

Browncat Programs

Nice

Wheat Wizard

I feel ambivolent about this.

Dude coinheringaahing

It fixes this bug report of mine, so I'm happy :P

DLosc

18:58

@emanresuA :(

Browncat Programs

19:09

Rule 104 makes some pretty cool shapes

Aaron Miller

19:23

@Dudecoinheringaahing I was really confused about what you were talking about, then I remembered that I replaced the badges via userscript. Then I was still really confused what you were talking about, then I remembered that I was using dark mode, which made the borders lighter instead of darker. :P

Neil

19:35

ugh, that answer took far too long to write :-(

emanresu A

Well, good job, and it's probably going to amass +5 within a few days.

Adám

20:27

Looks really messy imo, but ¯\_(⍨)/¯

Dude coinheringaahing

Personally, I think the best design is to just have diamonds and some icon that means "employee", rather than these text markers. But, if you're going to stick with those style markers, I think the current design works well

Adám

Three different contrasts between background and outline, though.

Aaron Miller

@Dudecoinheringaahing *cough*

Adám

Somehow, it looks as if there's less horizontal margin on "Staff" than OP.

emanresu A

⬢_⬢

Adám

20:31

Mod has more air too, so Staff looks super squished.

Dude coinheringaahing

@emanresuA How CMs look whenever we suggest some batsh*t crazy feature :P

Aaron Miller

I want to make a SEDE query to see if more of my Vyxal stuff is my own answers or golfs of other people's answers, but I spend my time Vyxaling instead of SQLing, so I don't know how. :/

emanresu A

Write a SQL query in Vyxal then

Dude coinheringaahing

ಠ_ಠ

@AaronMiller It's a shame there isn't an SO logo character in Unicode

Hexagons are a bit bleh

Aaron Miller

*Uses amogus character instead*

Browncat Programs

20:36

They need to just add a single character font, it can't seriously have more impact on the server than hundreds of kilobytes of CSS

Dude coinheringaahing

😳 when the CMs are sus

2

Browncat Programs

Just put the SO logo in a PUA

Adám

@Dudecoinheringaahing ≡̦_≡̦

Meh.

emanresu A

I think I've figured out why chat isn't being mantained

Adám

@Dudecoinheringaahing Turn your head 30 degrees clockwise: ⪜

Dude coinheringaahing

20:40

CMC: Golf the chat source code

@Adám About which axis?

Wheat Wizard

@emanresuA What is it?

emanresu A

@Dudecoinheringaahing caird.is_owner = false

@WheatWizard See above image

Wheat Wizard

What in the image?

Adám

@Dudecoinheringaahing The one going through head and centre of screen.

Dude coinheringaahing

@emanresuA -6 bytes: caird.is_owner=0 :P

emanresu A

20:42

caird.is_bad=1

caird[5]=1

Aaron Miller

CMQ: If I were to replace the "staff" character used in my userscript, what should I replace it with?

Wheat Wizard

@emanresuA It's basically impossible to see anything in minified output like that. Especially since a lot of it is cropped out.

Dude coinheringaahing

This SVG image

@WheatWizard I'd imagine that if that's the source code for chat, it'd be very difficult to maintain

Wheat Wizard

It is definitely not the source code.

emanresu A

master-chat.js

I'd say it's the source code

Wheat Wizard

20:45

It's a minified version.

If you were to actually use the source code it would drive up the load time for the page to an absurd level.

emanresu A

Oh

Anush

CMC compute the Levenshtein distance in Jelly

Adám

This isn't too shabby:

<span style="display:inline-block;transform:rotate(-30deg)skew(-30deg);font-size:1000%">⪜</span>

Dude coinheringaahing

Removing the -s makes it look better

Otherwise, it's upside down

Adám

No, I meant the SE logo.

Dude coinheringaahing

20:50

Hmm, not sure

Bit too "minimal" for me

Adám

SO's should be doable with ⚞ plus ⌴ and some CSS.

emanresu A

⚞?

Dude coinheringaahing

I still think this SVG image is better

emanresu A

Image of what that's meant to look like plz

Adám

emanresu A

20:53

System fonts :p

Aaron Miller

@Dudecoinheringaahing I like this too, so I think I'm going to change it to that.

user

21:11

@pxeger I'd say existing is a bad idea :P

@BrowncatPrograms Lazylist

(I promise you I'm not going to make a bunch of random replies)

@pxeger Found the Red! /s (isn't that socialism though)

@emanresuA Pretty sure it was simply minified using uglify or something

Ugh, I'm doing it again

DLosc

So our first LYAL4GG event is coming right up! Have we decided what language we'll be learning? (The voting is currently tied, BTW.)

user

Let it be known that I am removing my vote for Quipu (sorry, DLosc) so that it is now at 10

Actually, wait, Quipu looks more interesting, I'm removing my vote for ><> instead

DLosc

If it does end up being Quipu, I'll try to give myself a crash course in it tonight.

Also, does anyone here know Scala well enough to make the reference implementation runnable on TIO?

user

I can try

DLosc

21:26

Cool, thanks :)

Dude coinheringaahing

@DLosc I'd like it to be any of Quipu, ><> or BQN tbh

Cascade looks interesting, but those 3 more so

Maybe use a URL shortener? :P

user

Sure

Any free URL shorteners?

Dude coinheringaahing

bitly?

user

Bitly wants me to make an account :(

Dude coinheringaahing

Plus it fails on links that are too long :/

user

21:32

Odd, Bitly doesn't let me sign up

Imma just make a gist

Dude coinheringaahing

That works :P

user

Here's the gist of it

user

21:46

Here's a (much) shorter link, but it might be a bit uglier (and I think you'll need to escape backslashes)

DLosc

@user Hm. I'm getting errors:

.code.tio:1: error: ';' expected but 'catch' found.
object Main extends App{try{Interpreter(Parser(io.Source.stdin))catch{case pe: ParserException => println("Parser error: " + pe.getMessage)
                                                                ^
.code.tio:5: error: Missing closing brace `}' assumed here
}
^
two errors found
No such file or class on classpath: Main

Aha--adding a } before catch fixed it

user

Did you try the new TIO link?

I broke it while I was trying to golf it

DLosc

Yeah, that was probably the original link. Let me try the new one...

Nice :D

How do I give input to the Quipu program, since the program itself is read from stdin?

user

Hmm, I guess the Quipu program itself could be a variable in the code then

Gimme a minute

DLosc

Lol, the 99 Bottles of Beer example program has a typo in the output. ^_^ Should be an easy enough fix once I get home.

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