Keeping them doesn't disadvantage anyone though, save beginners who try to use ^ for exponentiation or something

@BrowncatPrograms It looks like they might be somewhat active on other sites, but they don't have any new posts here even if there are recent-ish comments: stackexchange.com/users/1970066/nathan-merrill?tab=activity

I like the principle of using something different like &&& ||| ^^^ (Elixir), but what exact syntax do you think is best?

('cause it's certainly not those)

Different Unicode chars maybe

CMC: best portmanteau of parser and type checker? (I will also accept two-word phrases with a similar effect)

@user I think it's important to keep everything on a standard keyboard

Look at Scala, Julia, Raku - noone uses the Unicode symbols; they all use ASCII equivalents

@pxeger parchecker

Julia has Unicode but I see what you mean

@user par is an added golf pun lol

I'll use that!

:)

@pxeger Parker

Charser

Charker

@BrowncatPrograms I thought of that too, but it's not as good as user's suggestion

@BrowncatPrograms that word has a bad... mouth feel

typarsker

@user sounds like a west country person asking about types lol

lol

CMC: logical xnor e.g. [3,4] -> 1 [0,0] -> 1 [0,4] -> 0

@AaronMiller Extended Dyalog APL, 3: =⍥≠

~_^_ in Scala afaict?

@Adám does = not work?

oh nvm

@rak1507 No, it'd give 0 for 3 and 4

yeah

@pxeger pecker?

@pxeger parster?

@AaronMiller x=>y=>x?y:!y

@ngn needs more "parser"

@Adám needs more "type check"

@pxeger pasta checker

lmao

arse type checker

Change it back, I was going to star it >:|

@pxeger pity. it would have been nice to be able to say "would you like to see my pecker?" :)

hmm

@pxeger tarcker?

@BrowncatPrograms arse checker

Not starring it now :p

I feel like, to be the most easily understandable, it needs to contain "par", "ty", and {"ch" or "ck"}

@AaronMiller I have 2 bytes in Vyxal

@pxeger ch party

czech party!!

@pxeger partyck/partych?

@Adám that just sounds like "Patrick" bastardised :Þ

@pxeger partychecker?

@BrowncatPrograms :(

@pxeger "Patrick" actually isn't a bad option

@pxeger party chick

@user yes, why thank you, I am a party chick

@BrowncatPrograms and since I (will have) invented it, it's not too pretentious a name either

how about parsy mctypecheckerface?

lol

good idea: I'll put it to a poll amongst the general public

let 4chan do their thing

Oh no

indeed

@ngn … McTypeCheck would be enough.

@Adám melodic whistle

Nice

Fuck Google Classroom, All My Homies Hate Google Classroom

Moodle >>>

F*ck Canvas, all my homies hate Canvas

Zoom

At least Google Classroom has good integration with Google Docs, Sheets, Slides (for obvious reasons)

@JohnDvorak Webex is way worse

no, I'm saying Zoom is good

F*ck the pandemic, all my homies hate the pandemic

@JohnDvorak Oh okay

@user I definitely didn't read that with an extra letter in it

???

websex

Webex is a horse?

Oh

Not sure what that is, but judging from its name, it probably is worse :P

I bet it makes learning engaging

eSTDs :O

Ahem, they're called STIs now :P

CMP: Worst software you've had to use?

The thing we're using to submit assignments in AP CS A is pretty bad

It considers all spaces to be indentation, even in strings, and if you have it set to use hard tabs it ruins everything

Taking the test is pretty bad too, they don't use a monospace font (or maybe they do, I can't remember), you can't indent with Tab (at least afaik), and copy-pasting is messed up

@user The software that is critical to the functioning of the company I work for. There's been a problem for a while that they haven't fixed, and they recently released a new hotfix that not only didn't fix the problem, it broke most of the core functionality of the software, and makes it pretty much impossible for us to do our jobs.

There's a reason I'm here as often as I am. :p

lmao

If it didn't fix the problem, couldn't it be reverted?

You'd think so, wouldn't you?

Welp, I guess it can't be too bad if you can golf instead of doing work (unless you're not even being paid) :P

Oh, I still get paid :P

I just get a lot of free time

This is better than Adám's job, then :P

lol

I set out to make a subtly cursed language but it turns out I actually really like what I have so far

Help

The JS has poisoned me

@BrowncatPrograms It was only a matter of time. I'm showing symptoms myself.

On the plus side, though, I now understand async/await about 80% of the way, which is enough to successfully use them in code. So that's nice.

@JohnDvorak Neither: you don't know you're poisoned until far too late

It's way easier if you just use async/await as syntactic sugar for promises, which they are

Python's async/await never made sense to me until I used JS's callback system, extended to promises and .then, and extended to async/await there

You can analogise all the far-too-confusing things in Python to simple pieces of JS

Imagine using sugar

This post made by diabetes gang

(I'm not diabetic, just making a joke)

you prefer syntax salt?

that makes all your syntax hashes harder to reverse

so it's really hard to remove the # comments

I salt my code so that you can't use rainbow tables to understand it

hey, that's my joke but better! stop improving my execution!!

@pxeger Joke's on you, I use C so the # stuff is unreadable anyway

@BrowncatPrograms Uhh... no, sorry, I still don't understand promises.

@user Since the C preprocessor removes all the # lines, could you say that CPP is in fact, salt?

My reaction anytime I ran across an async/await tutorial that said, "It's just syntactic sugar for promises" :P

You need to start with promises :p

@BrowncatPrograms False. I didn't, and my code works. :P

I solved the problem by not being a developer at all. Take that, callback hell!

How to async/await: Start with sync code, and put async in front of every function definition that does something, and await in front of every function call that does something

Promise: A thing that can be resolved, which calls a function when that happens. Async: A function that returns a promise that is resolved with the return value. Await: An operator that waits for a promise to resolve, and then returns that value.

Let libuv handle the rest

libuv?

(I did use one promise, but I wrapped it in a function that could be awaited so I wouldn't have to think about it.)

@user it's the event loop in NodeJS

Any time you use async you are using a promise

Await is just a shorthand for .then

What if I am prone to breaking my promises?

@user You need a .catch :p

@BrowncatPrograms Async: a function that doesn't have to finish before JavaScript can do other stuff. Await: when calling an async function from inside another async function, wait for the called function to finish before continuing with the calling function's code.

That's the wrong way to think about it imo

I think that's a perfectly reasonable way to think about it

But it works for me, and trying to think about promises twists my brain in knots and prevents me from implementing anything. So... :)

Are async functions functions that can be "paused"?

Not really

await X means "go do X; in the mean time, go do some other things; once you've finished doing X, come back to me"

@pxeger But it makes it seem like await only works with function calls

I mean, you very rarely use it with anything else

I don't

@BrowncatPrograms pxeger's ^^^^ message now covers normal promises too

@BrowncatPrograms You, not you

One (English); on (French); man (German)

??

One very rarely uses it

> I mean, people very rarely use it with anything else

most

There, ya happy :p

@DLosc One-on-man? Sounds like a basketball term :P

I probably use await more often without an async function than with one

@BrowncatPrograms Anytime TNB turns into a linguistics discussion, I'm happy :D

@BrowncatPrograms You're an anomaly anyway

92% of statistics including Redwolf and other JS lovers discard them because they're outliers and just plain weird :P

I don't get why async/await is something people struggle with, tbh

@BrowncatPrograms That's fair. It is something I struggle with, but I can see how it might be intuitive to some people.

> I don't get why flying is something fish struggle with - Redbird programs

@BrowncatPrograms Because its confusing

> If you judge a fish by its ability to use async/await, it will live its whole life believing it is stupid — Albert Einstein

I just think the whole "an async function is one that can let JS do other things in the background" is a really bad way to think about it, since async/await/promises could still be meaningful and useful even without that

@BrowncatPrograms can you give me an example of when else you'd use it then?

What other things can they do?

@Dudecoinheringaahing Out of interest, what about it is confusing?

Ninja'd

@BrowncatPrograms I don't know what it does

So: "everything"

@pxeger I don't know how to do that

@pxeger Error handling is a pretty good one

And I guess it does fall under "letting JS do things in the background", but turning stuff like event listeners into promises and awaiting them is nice

Just because JS's try, catch expressions are dogshit doesn't mean async/await are good :P

@Dudecoinheringaahing Go to the repo's Settings -> Options -> Features and enable Issues

How are they dogshit?

> expressions

that exactly is the problem lol

@Dudecoinheringaahing What's wrong with try/catch? I didn't think they were different from other languages'

Is it because they don't have types?

^^

@pxeger What is? JS's try/catch aren't expressions

exactly

I think pxeger means that they should be edit: aaaaaaaah ninja'd

Ah

one of the problems is that they should be expressions (as should every control structure)

@BrowncatPrograms I suppose it's not really the try/catch that's the issue, more like the entire language, and that just covers try/catch :P

@pxeger Learn you a Scala for great good!

@user Ruby did it first!

@pxeger But it's very common to have them be statements, so it's hardly a fault with JS specifically

@Dudecoinheringaahing But there's nothing specifically bad about try/catch, right?

@pxeger status-completed

@Dudecoinheringaahing The fundamental issue with async/await is this: journal.stuffwithstuff.com/2015/02/01/…

@pxeger I really should learn Ruby but it's too pearly :(

@Dudecoinheringaahing thanks

@user Well, it implies the existence of errors, and we all know those are bad because they aren't golfy :P

lol

Ooh, a practical, verbose language which cannot have syntax errors would actually be really cool

Just rebrand them as "naughty word" errors :P

It would be the opposite of cool

It would be...warm

Or, "wtf are you doing?" errors :P

CMC: Set things up so your language throws a "wtf are you doing?" error instead of any syntax error.

def run(code):
  try: eval(code)
  except SyntaxError as e: print("wtf are you doing?")

@Adám ato.pxeger.com/…

@BrowncatPrograms Well actually... [pushes glasses up nose] Errors are a very good thing for practical languages to have. If you make a typo and your program crashes, you know something must be wrong and you go fix it. If you make a typo and your program silently does the wrong thing, you may never realize anything's wrong until your application is in use and it causes real-world problems.

@user Doesn't that simply print the message rather than throwing an actual "wtf are you doing?" error?

> If you make a typo and your program silently does the wrong thing

*happy PHP sounds*

@DLosc Nonsense, errors are bad and thus less of them is good

:p

@Adám Eh, it's trivial to make it throw an error

@BrowncatPrograms I.e. "What we don't know won't hurt us"

@pxeger ato.pxeger.com/…?

This is the best I can do:

@Adám Here's a better one: ato.pxeger.com/…

@DLosc (I'm not serious about that, I know it'd be a really bad idea I just think it'd be neat)

@DLosc Why is Gale after Java and why are Dogs so low?

Also, frick Superman and Batman, they go below Tabs imho

@DLosc Cats ≈ Dogs

What no

@BrowncatPrograms (Take the "practical" out of your original comment and I agree with you)

Dogs >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cats

@user AssertionError

@DLosc (I meant "practical" as in "having aspects similar to practical languages", rather than golfy or esoteric ones)

Try it online!

@user I suppose Dogs could go above Peeta. Dogs are below JavaScript because my reaction to JS is "It has some weird behaviors that I don't like, but overall it's kinda cool and useful" and my reaction to dogs is "They have some weird behaviors that I don't like, but overall some of them are kinda cool."

@pxeger scastie.scala-lang.org/vGmnQ6miSr2mMp1qL2mlgw

@DLosc lol

@user My opinion of Java is "It has several features that I don't like, but I guess it's overall a decent language, and it's useful." My opinion of Gale is "Meh."

@user scastie.scala-lang.org/GwhQMaOuSGWYJj0WWNKgNQ

no bullshit required ;)

@DLosc what is Gale?

Some dude

DLosc just really doesn't like them :P

@user tio.run/##K8gs@P9fySU/vVhJwU5ByTmxpFjp/38A

@pxeger :( scastie.scala-lang.org/3SdoQcFcStyHEU31jhDmDg

@Dudecoinheringaahing s/really doesn't/doesn't really/

@DLosc Well of course Dogs > Cats is false, dogs aren't simply slightly better, they're waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay better

CMC: Print the number -2082844800000

@DLosc Try it online! :P

-2082844800000

@BrowncatPrograms Jelly, 11 bytes -20828448ȷ5

@Dudecoinheringaahing I thought you were going to do this, which would support your earlier assertion ;)

@DLosc Of course it supports that, I am correct in everything I say :P

Wait really?

@BrowncatPrograms from datetime import*;print(int(datetime.fromisoformat("1904-01-01T00:00:00").timestamp()))

What are the winning numbers for the lottery today? :P

@BrowncatPrograms Jelly, 9 bytes “¢ 3Ðİż’N

@user 1,2,3,4,5,6,7

JS: Date.UTC(4) :p

@Dudecoinheringaahing Didn't y'all hear? CGCC catboy/catgirl week is over :P

@Dudecoinheringaahing Interesting, Jelly's compressed numbers don't handle negative numbers

@pxeger wasn't it over last night?

Didn't y'all hear? It's CGCC catboy/catgirl month :P

@ngn no? 17th August + 7 days = 24th August

@pxeger One of the two potential love interests for the main character in The Hunger Games. Fans used to (maybe still do) have arguments about whether Gale or Peeta is better. I thought I'd throw every possible argument-generating opinion I have in one big list and see how much trouble I could stir up. ;)

@pxeger OTOH, only ROs can unpin that message, and we mostly support catgirl/catboy week :P

@Dudecoinheringaahing @hyper-neutrino please 11

@pxeger i must have misunderstood then. i think somebody mentioned it would be over in a couple of hours.

It has been just over one week, so yes, if it's a Week, then the Week is over.

@ngn I mentioned that, but I think I got the time right, idk

@pxeger Of course, the 17th was a Tuesday, and 1 week after a Tuesday could end on the Monday

it depends on how you define a week

168 hours

I define it as exactly 168 hours

and it's been about 168 hours and 5 minutes

ergo, it has just finished

Good, please end this demonic cat worshipping

It's time for dogboy/doggirl week!

@user Not accurate :P

What about sharkboy/lavagirl week?

@user oh no, I'll keep catgirl/catboy week forever if that's the alternative!

@user Okay, cool

I think it makes this sort of thing a lot less fun when people are trying to turn it into a fight

@Dudecoinheringaahing Fireboy/watergirl week would be better imo :P

@BrowncatPrograms :( fine, no more cat-hating

@user Spot the Zutara shipper /s

The whole cats vs. identicons thing almost made me want to switch back to a normal name/pfp

That was the point

@BrowncatPrograms I wonder how hard it would be to bruteforce an identicon that looked like a paw print

It's probably not possible

I mean does a rotationally symmetric pawprint look like a pawprint?

4 pawprints?

Obviously, you must sneak a bug into Gravatar that does it for you

@pxeger opinions on JavaScript

@user That's what you added, right?

well spotted

lol

I just went to your profile lol

(actually, I created the whole rules page)

Oh

@Dudecoinheringaahing Technically, you could remove steps 2 and 3 and it would still be accurate ;)

Depends on how well SE pays :P

@BrowncatPrograms So I did

"1. invest well 2. profit" is even better than "1. get hired 2. profit"

0. Be born rich 1. Profit

^ Speedrun to profit