The Nineteenth Byte

Aaron Miller

02:00

how join does group?

emanresu A

Wait until next round

I made this one too short anyway

exedraj

Central Park, Cowdenbeath → Fife → John McDouall Stuart → New South Wales → Queensland → Q150

Jo King

oh, it's number of clicks not time

Aaron Miller

but how do I join the group?

exedraj

@AaronMiller thewikigame.com/group

you'll see a Join Group box

enter code 342445

Jo King

02:01

and then refresh

emanresu A

Start+end?

Aaron Miller

am join

emanresu A

Ok

exedraj

@emanresuA The Ambassador (TV series)

to Free Radio Coventry & Warwickshire

(generated by the random article button)

emanresu A

Ok, everyone ready?

exedraj

02:03

I'm ready

Aaron Miller

i think so?

Jo King

sure

emanresu A

@BrowncatPrograms

Browncat Programs

What's the ping or

emanresu A

Are you ready?

exedraj

02:03

wiki racing next round

Browncat Programs

Oh, I'm not playing again

emanresu A

Oh ok

GO

Aaron Miller

dang it, I refreshed the page, but it still just had the results from the last game. I had to click the button that said "click when admin starts new round" in order to even see that there was a new round, and by that point it was too late. :/

Browncat Programs

I am extremely confused by how SE's formatting works

It just magically...does

emanresu A

Oh sorrt

Browncat Programs

02:06

And I can't get mine to

emanresu A

I'll make the lobby longer next tiem

Aaron Miller

I think I just needed to figure out the jankness of the game, so I think I'll be good to actually play next round.

Jo King

kinda annoying you can't click on the destination to check the page

emanresu A

I've set it to 10s lobby

so it should be good

exedraj

@JoKing yeah

emanresu A

02:07

@JoKing Yes

exedraj

that's why I have wikipedia open in a different ab

*tab

and when the round starts, I quickly get the target open

emanresu A

Ok

exedraj

who's choosing the start and end?

emanresu A

Friday Rock Show > Rushanara Ali

exedraj

sounds good

emanresu A

02:08

Provided by the random page button

Everyone ready?

exedraj

ready.

Aaron Miller

its still showing the results of last game

emanresu A

Yeah

that's what it does

exedraj

it hasn't started

emanresu A

new stuff will show up when I start

Aaron Miller

02:09

ah, ok

then im ready

emanresu A

@user Join us?

user

Nah, on mobile, sorry

emanresu A

OH

@JoKing Ready?

Jo King

i'm so confused how scoring works, but sure

exedraj

I'll explain after this round

emanresu A

02:11

Go!

Aaron Miller

what the crap. this thing refuses to work

Browncat Programs

Ugh SE had actually nice front-end code that worked properly and was easy to modify, and now it's replaced with garbage that's awful to work with :/

@Dudecoinheringaahing I don't know if I'll be able to fix New Posts. I can get it technically working, but the UI is broken and I really don't want to have to fix it

exedraj

I was pretty close

emanresu A

I got to Polynesia

Should I increase the time limit?

exedraj

If it loaded, I would have been on 2001 general UK election, bethnal green and bow and then target

Jo King

02:15

i kept cycling around "UK labour party"

exedraj

Alright scoring explanation time.

It seems that fewest clicks = better

emanresu A

Yes

'

exedraj

but also, getting to the target more than once also gets you more points

Jo King

... can you just do the same path over and over?

exedraj

no

unique paths

but variations count

Central Park, Cowdenbeath → Fife → John McDouall Stuart → New South Wales → Queensland → Q150 and Central Park, Cowdenbeath → Fife → Australian rules football → Australian rules football in Queensland → Queensland → Q150 are unique

even though they share some common pages

@emanresuA new pages?

emanresu A

02:18

I've just been adding new ones while y'all were chatting

whenever y'all ready

exedraj

I'm good to go

Aaron Miller

for some reason, when a round starts, for me it says that it's already over. I tried joining a public game, as well as made my own group, and it did the same thing for both. Even as the admin, with a 30 second pre-round, I hit start, and it says it's over.

emanresu A

That is glitched

exedraj

what browser?

Aaron Miller

chrome

emanresu A

02:19

hm

exedraj

doesn't happen to me

Aaron Miller

ill try it on edge

emanresu A

CMC: Write JS that runs in IE as expected.

exedraj

VTC as impossible ;p

emanresu A

You can't do that

we has had impossible challenges before

mostly caird's faut

Jo King

02:22

a proof of impossibility is still an answer

emanresu A

Tru dat

Aaron Miller

@emanresuA JS, 17 bytes: FJAFJKLDSKF7JKFDJ It's expected to not work.

emanresu A

@AaronMiller Have you got it open in Edge?

Aaron Miller

yep

Jo King

@AaronMiller did you test that? it's summoning cthulu in ~edge~ IE for me

Aaron Miller

02:23

@JoKing But what about in IE?

status-norepro

Jo King

what's strikeout in SE chat formatting?

exedraj

~~this~~

Aaron Miller

~~like this~~

emanresu A

---text---

exedraj

---this---

Aaron Miller

02:24

ninja'd

exedraj

are we ready for next round?

Aaron Miller

hopefully

Jo King

go for it

emanresu A

GO!

Aaron Miller

Yeah, I refreshed as you said go, and yet it still immediately said that the round was over, so I'm just going to go do something less cursed, like work on the Ｃｕｒｓｅｄ interpreter or something :p

2

why is .lang not an available TLD?

exedraj

02:29

@emanresuA how didn't you win?

Also @JoKing we got the exact same path in the exact same time

emanresu A

Because I tried to get to NZ via the Australian football team, couldn't find a biodiversity link, and got lost several times.

Jo King

okay, so going back to the old page still gives you points??

exedraj

@emanresuA stoopid. There was a link to NZ on the start page

@JoKing unique paths

emanresu A

Ik

exedraj

just gotta milk it

emanresu A

02:30

now

Anyway, Go!

Aaron Miller

Hmm... I could get the domain cursed-lang.biz for only $15/year.

user

liol

Do you relly need it tho

Gh pages is good enough and the lang isn’t worth spending money

Unrelated String

.biz is a whole new dimension of cursed to explore

Aaron Miller

^

exedraj

dang it

all I needed was shrew or hedgehog

emanresu A

02:34

Were you close?

exedraj

no

emanresu A

I was circling around the atlantic...

exedraj

kept going around in circles to do with life

Jo King

got to fauna of indonesia, but it wasn't there :(

emanresu A

nowhere links to the pacific

exedraj

02:34

@JoKing same

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:WhatLinksHere/Sunda_shrew

user

This sounds so weird out of ctxt lol

emanresu A

Next one

go

Sorry mesage timed out

@JoKing Next round started

Aaron Miller

I'm going to go for the night, but tomorrow I'm going to make johnvertisements randomly pop up on the site.

Why is it that making the site cursed is about twice as difficult as making it good?

Jo King

uh oh, i'm on the wrong football

Aaron Miller

I spent like an hour and a half just getting the rainbow overflow text to work right. :/

Browncat Programs

02:37

"Hello" - very offensive :p

exedraj

I just went in circles on FIFA

emanresu A

I got to the english football team

exedraj

oh dang it

wrong football

wait does FIFA do the right football here?

@emanresuA @JoKing next round?

emanresu A

Noo clue

@exedraj Sure

@JoKing Go!

Sandbox Posts

0

A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

"-rot" transform code-golf array-manipulation integer sequence Background -rot transform (read as "minus-rot transform") is a sequence transformation I just invented. This transform is done by viewing the sequence as a stack in Forth or Factor (first term on the top) and repeatedly applying -rot ...

Jo King

02:40

@AaronMiller reminds me of a review for Cruelty Squad: "The dev put an incredible amount of thought and effort into every aspect of this game and then put twice as much thought and effort into making it look like they didn't"

i accidentally clicked on "investment banking" oops

exedraj

I got pranked by the "what links here"

emanresu A

Oh that was very big brian

I got stuck on Santa Barbara

exedraj

because it said "Red" links to the target

and it does

in the references

And wiki game doesn't show references

emanresu A

and there was no university

I got scammed

exedraj

next round?

Jo King

02:45

it really should just give points for shortest, not for all paths

emanresu A

@JoKing Go

exedraj

I gtg now

emanresu A

Oh

Bye

user

@AaronMiller It takes skill to combine badness in just the right way

Also takes skill to make it good but there are libraries to help with that

emanresu A

I was close

Jo King

02:48

alright, i'm out too

emanresu A

I got to 'list of cities in China'

Bye

I'll leave this open for noow

Jo King

bangkok is not a city in china btw

4

emanresu A

Oh

That's what I was doing wrong

user

😂

user

03:09

@JoKing just looked it up, looks like china is a city in bangkok

PyGamer0

03:50

@Dudecoinheringaahing are there any answers in tpt?

Razetime

tpt?

Bubbler

@PyGamer0 search when in doubt

PyGamer0

@Bubbler ty

@Razetime the powder toy

emanresu A

Yes

Razetime

looks insane

PyGamer0

03:56

yeah people build many things

including computer and compact computers and even more compact computers

(like 2d minecraft but not quite it)

Bubbler

Whenever a game has TC elements people rush to build a computer in it, apparently

PyGamer0

@Bubbler pretty sure saw a 2 core computer in MC

i am currently makin a computer in minecraft

emanresu A

Learn to use /clone

You'll need it

hyper-neutrino

or just use like mcedit lol

PyGamer0

@hyper-neutrino rip me i am not in minecraft java

i am playing bedrock

Bubbler

03:59

Unfortunately all powdertoy golf answers have a 404 link

except for programming language quiz, which just links to official site

and wiki is part of the official site, which is blocked here (frick firewall)

PyGamer0

@PyGamer0 i have made the 4 bit alu for it as well as their registors. also i have hooked the output of the alu to one of the registors via a switch (and it took me 6 months because i forgot about the thing)

@Bubbler tpt is open source

github.com/The-Powder-Toy/The-Powder-Toy

hyper-neutrino

i am wondering if shapez.io is turing complete

BCT would probably be easier to implement to demonstrate it than brainfuck would be

emanresu A

Yes

BCT is easy to doo

PyGamer0

why isnt powder-toy a tag?

emanresu A

Because the only question is tips

If someone creates a TPT-related question, the tag's creation can be justified

PyGamer0

04:06

also tpt has a minecraft java server

emanresu A

Similar to vyxal

PyGamer0

@emanresuA Make a simplified version of TPT.

emanresu A

Very simplified

PyGamer0

Only simulate sand and air pressure

emanresu A

beriberi simplified

PyGamer0

04:12

how would the input be taken?

Catija

Maybe y'all already saw this but I thought I'd point it out -

> making it possible to label individual answers with technology versions — for example, [python-v2] vs. [python-v3].

32

Q: Outdated Answers: results from flagging exercise and next steps

As part of our Outdated Answers initiative, we shipped a temporary data-collection exercise in May. Unfortunately, the results were inconclusive and didn't lead to any big aha moments. After I briefly recap what we did (and didn't) learn, I'll update you on what we're doing next: sorting and labe...

... If we actually make that possible, I don't know why y'all couldn't label answers with languages outright... which I think is kinda something you've wanted?

emanresu A

Yes...

And if we're talking about modifying the default sort...

hyper-neutrino

@Catija wait, this would actually be really good for so many reasons, lol

Catija

It's unclear whether the answers would be searchable by those tags, to be clear. I'm guessing there's still a lot of work to do there.

hyper-neutrino

hm. being able to search would definitely be nice, but one of the main uses that's harder for us to do without this feature right now is parse answers for the language name for analysing various things

emanresu A

04:21

So if SEDE / the API support requests that get the language tag from an answer, that's fine.

Catija

Don't y'all add the language at the top of the answer?

emanresu A

Yes, but there are lots of different names for the same thing

hyper-neutrino

yes but a) not everyone is consistent with how it's formatted b) SE keeps changing the formatting on us and breaking things

emanresu A

Javascript => JS, ES6, ES2020, Node.JS, etc

Catija

Ah. Gotcha. But if it's just a tag, it'd be easier.

hyper-neutrino

04:22

yeah

being able to represent a byte count on an answer would also be nice but like... it would be moderately impractical to create like 5000 tags that are just byte count numbers

Catija

... yeah. particularly if they're going to be standard tags.

I guess you could put them in ranges and only do single numbers for very low counts?

hyper-neutrino

although this would take an enormous amount of collaborative effort if we want to retroactively tag all of our answers, but i feel like we have enough people here with more than enough time if it is so desired :p

emanresu A

Although we do have to consider versions... We currently only have python but people answer in Python 2, Python 3, Python 3.8 , Python 1, CPython, etc

Catija

That's a lot of edits. :D

And bumps.

hyper-neutrino

oh wait right that would bump stuff

well. guess that's out of the picture then

emanresu A

04:24

Pretty soon everyone on the site would have Copy Editor

Catija

Question tags, at least, don't count. Not sure whether answer tags would.

hyper-neutrino

@Catija that's a possibility. collecting the byte count is not nearly as bad though because we can just search for like \d+\s*(byte|character|whatever)s? lol. answer names aren't always nice because like... we have languages named ,,, and uh

√ å ı ¥ ® Ï Ø ¿

still somewhat wish there were some way to mark minor edits to avoid bumping, which would make clean-up actually possible :P

emanresu A

We'd also have to create x86-assembly, arm-assembly, com-assembly - in the end it's probably better to have a completely separate system

Catija

@hyper-neutrino So... we'll have a bit of issue there because y'all would likely need to have actual tags and I'm ... not sure those characters are valid in tags.

hyper-neutrino

well, we can come up with aliases. we can just remap it to the real name when doing like analysis or whatever

like, ,,, is also known as commata for the purposes of being able make sense in urls or whatever

emanresu A

04:28

unprintable-name

etc

Catija

Anyway, my guess is, y'all will need to assume that they'll be the same tags used for questions, just something people can add to answers. It's possible they'll be separate tags but this was actually the first thing I've heard about it.

hyper-neutrino

wait, they'd just repurpose question tags and add them to answers? not gonna lie, i don't really see how this makes all that much sense but maybe i'm missing something

like even outside of code golf, i feel like categorizing answers with answer-related tags like "outdated", "bad practice" (for coding), etc would make more sense, cuz if a question is tagged python, then obviously its answers are gonna be in python (except weird edge cases)

Catija

Dunno... SO already has tags for the different versions of python, for example...

Bubbler

Also we have like hundreds of different languages, if not thousands, and it will 100% clutter the entire tag list if they're not separated from question tags

Catija

It won't necessarily clutter the tag pages if the tags are still in order by number of uses on questions.

But... I don't know. Like I said, this is the first I'm hearing about it - feel free to ask for more details and stuff on the MSO post where Anita mentions it. :D

Bubbler

04:32

And we don't recommend using language tags on questions (especially challenges) but the existence of all those tags may suggest otherwise

hyper-neutrino

tags can be blacklisted right?

Bubbler

But usage in tips questions is still relevant, so I don't think blacklisting is a good option either

emanresu A

On a more general note (site-wide) why not just give high-rep users the ability to propose / review reaccepts, where the accepted answer gets changed?

hyper-neutrino

because the purpose of accepted answers isn't to indicate which answer is the best, it's to indicate which answer the question asker was helped most by

which means it also doesn't make sense that the accepted answer is pinned for a resource site oriented around helping the general viewer, but ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Bubbler

^

emanresu A

04:37

Ok

Sandbox Posts

05:31

0

A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

Unfudge my terminal! Intro Today I fiddled around with termios for a program. The only thing I managed to do so far is fundging my terminal... can you help me out? Challenge Given a terminal input that contains fudged special chars, output the string that should be displayed if the terminal worke...

Bubbler

06:20

1

Q: (Mega-) feature request: Answer labeling

A recent post on SO Meta mentioned this: [...] we are in the early exploration phase of: [...] making it possible to label individual answers with technology versions — for example, [python-v2] vs. [python-v3]. I think this feature could be beneficial to other sites on SE. As a Code Golf regu...

discussion feature-request answers

Wheat Wizard

@Dudecoinheringaahing it has summoned me it just took a while since I was asleep. :P

PyGamer0

i think the most used emoticon in TNB is :P / :p

Razetime

@Bubbler this would be good to try on codidact

emanresu A

08:13

@PyGamer0 O_o really?

>o<

PyGamer0

@emanresuA yes :P

PyGamer0

11:51

CQ: Favourite colorscheme?

Adám

@PyGamer0 I use Nord for APL.

Adám

12:27

→ 27 messages moved to The APL Orchard

Browncat Programs

12:44

@PyGamer0 I made a custom theme for Text

Which isn't fun :p

Since Text has no official way to add custom themes or modify its code/install packages

exedraj

Bruh just use the SE answer box as a text editor

it has syntax highlighting in the preview, it saves drafts and also has built-in markdown support

user

lol

PyGamer0

@BrowncatPrograms cool cause even i made a colorscheme (for a different editor)

@exedraj hmm but: can it run doom?

exedraj

@PyGamer0 if JS can, then you can use an embedded script

PyGamer0

@exedraj but can it run: (n)vim?

Aaron Miller

12:57

@PyGamer0 Frick you, now I feel like I need to port Doom over to Vim, but I really don't want to.

exedraj

js-dos.com/DOOM

PyGamer0

@AaronMiller hmmm nice idea

people have ported snake and tetris

doom doesnt seem hard

exedraj

see, Doom in the SE editor

5

Aaron Miller

> Age rating +0

:thonk:

PyGamer0

@exedraj wow thats cool

also how are 2d langs parsed??

exedraj

12:59

that's the neat part: they aren't

Dude coinheringaahing

They aren't

exedraj

get ninja'd

PyGamer0

wat

Transcript for