The Nineteenth Byte

PyGamer0

07:07

@emanresuA oh no HOW much

emanresu A

@PyGamer0 What do you mean?

PyGamer0

how much more remaining

emanresu A

No clue

Depends on what exedraj does...

The last two have been trivial modifications of #11

exedraj

@emanresuA I was out when you posted that

emanresu A

Oh

Well you're back now, so go play!

exedraj

07:12

@emanresuA but you gave me back char

Adám

emanresu A

In exchange for ascii, and you still don't have add.

exedraj

So?

Unrelated String

you do have replace

PyGamer0

wow TNB is almost empty

emanresu A

07:15

almost empty?

PyGamer0

generallyit is 2 and more rows of peop,e

exedraj

@emanresuA ez clap

PyGamer0

rn it is 1 and half

exedraj

107 char 100 char 115 char 109 char 117 char 106 char 118 char 102 char 98 char wrap 1 repeat "," "" replace

sussy baka

emanresu A

That is nice

Goodbye w

Unrelated String

07:17

i didn't even think of wrap

emanresu A

And , just in case

Wait no even that doesn't help

Unrelated String

yeah

PyGamer0

also @tjjfvi are you participlating in langjam?

emanresu A

spamming pair

user41805

@ngn 'aleph could indicate a vowel afaik' i was thinking of this again, sure the case can be easily seen with alef (/la:/ != /la?/), but can the same be said of yod and waw? does /fij/ equal /fi:/ or are they different?

maybe @Adám knows

Adám

07:24

@user41805 In Hebrew, Alef, Hey, and Yud, are never vowels by themselves, but Hey and Yud can be silent in combination with a vowel. Waw can represent two different vowels. Furthermore, Yud can represent the second half of a diphthong, like ay and oy, and according to some, even ey. What would become iy is simply a long "ee".

emanresu A

@exedraj Alright, I admit defeat. You have won.

exedraj

w...what? you're trolling me

surely you are

emanresu A

I've tried everything, and you've beaten everything

user41805

@Adám alef isn't a vowel in lamedh+alef?

Adám

@WheatWizard Can you give chat.stackexchange.com/users/412643/user7089017 explicit write access in chat.stackexchange.com/rooms/52405/the-apl-orchard?

Unrelated String

07:26

@emanresuA can also just

"123456789" 49 char 107 char replace 50 char 100 char replace 51 char 115 char replace 52 char 109 char replace 53 char 117 char replace 54 char 106 char replace 55 char 118 char replace 56 char 102 char replace 57 char 98 char replace

Adám

@user41805 No, it is just a silent final consonant.

emanresu A

Typing up explanations now that the gig is up.

exedraj

B...but you can just add new features can't you?

user41805

@Adám do you mean it's silent only in modern hebrew, but used to be pronounced as a glottal stop before?

Adám

@user41805 No, it is always a glottal stop, both in ancient and modern speech, but a glottal stop at the end of a word (after the final vowel) or at the beginning of a word (before the first vowel) is entirely silent.

user41805

07:30

ah i see

emanresu A

@exedraj That gets boring quickly, and I want to focus on the language itself now. There's a ton of stuff I wanted to add but couldn't've because it would break open everything here.

exedraj

So that's it then?

Adám

@user41805 Actually, the Orthodox Jews that stem from Northern Europe tend to pronounce a word-internal stop (Aleph or Ayin) as a y-diphthong of the previous vowel, so for example, maʾamar maʿamad become maimar and maimad.

emanresu A

@exedraj For this, yes.

PyGamer0

^ editing html is funny sometimes

user41805

07:35

@Adám interesting

emanresu A

Sus

Unrelated String

that's really interesting

emanresu A

07:50

@exedraj I published my explanation

PyGamer0

doggy in the window

oy that was my brother

argfgggh

emanresu A

To little brother: Click here for free candy!

PyGamer0

ik rickrolls

also i hate candy

emanresu A

It's a chatroll

Where you link to TNB from TNB

Which is a thing I just made up

exedraj

@emanresuA the most cursed part is that JavaScript turns a deeply nested list into a single list when using repeat

Meaning that my approach still works

PyGamer0

07:52

uuh my brother typed the last 2 messages

he has got hold of the tablet

he is doing classes and trying to chat here

emanresu A

@exedraj Yeah I know

PyGamer0

jshd

exedraj

@PyGamer0 tell your brother I said hi

PyGamer0

oy stop

@exedraj he has the chat open

emanresu A

@PyGamerBrother Hi

PyGamer0

07:54

bruh

can someone change the notification noise plz

exedraj

@PyGamerBrother what is your favourite colour?

PyGamer0

@emanresuA hi

idk

ok i am off talk with my lil brother

exedraj

@PyGamerBrother do you have full control now?

PyGamer0

ok bye

@exedraj i leave

exedraj

@PyGamer0 why?

PyGamer0

07:56

ok he left

exedraj

Who left?

PyGamer0

i wnt up to him and he said a single word "Doggy"

exedraj

Big pg0 or little pg0?

PyGamer0

@exedraj little

exedraj

So big pg0 is talking now?

Is that a yes or no?

Eh, doesn't matter

PyGamer0

07:57

@exedraj Yes its me

@exedraj Bruh

exedraj

@PyGamer0 I gotta go is what I meant

PyGamer0

@exedraj Oh.

emanresu A

What's the command for exclusive range in 51AC8?

PyGamer0

My little brother invaded

8 mins ago, 8 minutes total – 42 messages, 3 users, 0 stars

Bookmarked 10 secs ago by PyGamer0

@emanresuA 1..n? or 0..n-1

1..n is r

emanresu A

Ok

Just checking if it was you

PyGamer0

07:59

0..n-1 is R

emanresu A

The second is what I meant

Bubbler

Announcement: TIB 2.0 is live! If you have problems or feature requests, please open an issue here.

5

PyGamer0

ok

emanresu A

But I thought your brother might be impersonating you

Ik it's you now - your brother wouldn't know how to bookmark a conversation

PyGamer0

@emanresuA TIO!

emanresu A

08:01

@Bubbler What is up with your deadfish?

@PyGamer0 Your printing is slightly sus

Bubbler

Lol, that overflowed

emanresu A

[ 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10]

PyGamer0

@emanresuA bug report to numpy

emanresu A

Oh ok

PyGamer0

not me

emanresu A

08:02

@Bubbler Oh lol

PyGamer0

@Bubbler is there only 2 languages?

i wont impersonate my elder bro

Bubbler

But it must be an unsigned variable, I wonder how it managed to format into a negative number

@PyGamer0 Yes, as of now

PyGamer0

oy my bro came back

bruh

i will go log out of the other device

emanresu A

I have no clue

@PyGamer0 Oh

that explains a lot

Bubbler

Oh, I actually forgot to make it unsigned and Rust silently defaulted to i32

Big brain moment

emanresu A

08:05

Good job

PyGamer0

lol my brother doesnt know Markdown links

[m.youtube.com/watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ](hi)

lol nice try

:(

how to markdown

emanresu A

@PyGamer0 Sus

PyGamer0

^ thats my bro

@emanresuA ඞ

he takes long to type

emanresu A

I have no idea which of you I'm speaking to right now

This is great

PyGamer0

lol

exedraj

08:07

@PyGamer0 what is my usual username?

PyGamer0

@exedraj he is online rn

lyxal

emanresu A

It won't help

They're on two separate devices

on the same account

PyGamer0

yes

exedraj

@PyGamer0 well we know big pg0 said that one

PyGamer0

funi

doggy in the window

ok bye

emanresu A

08:08

Oh great

exedraj

«ŀ|Ḟ∑ḣꜝqo¥∵꘍ẋ¨ḟÞ½•9T⇧‡XøĿ¥×YD«

PyGamer0

My little bro invades Part 2

6 mins ago, 5 minutes total – 36 messages, 4 users, 0 stars

Bookmarked 8 secs ago by PyGamer0

exedraj

1 min ago, by exedraj

«ŀ|Ḟ∑ḣꜝqo¥∵꘍ẋ¨ḟÞ½•9T⇧‡XøĿ¥×YD«

@PyGamer0 what do you think of ^

emanresu A

`H…Ḟ he'll ∨⋎ °† λ⟇ λ₅ - ʁṁ ƛ∪ Þµ ¬λ λ¤ ₴ŀ?`

PyGamer0

confusing -the litill bro

exedraj

08:12

@emanresuA `€₀ λ†`

PyGamer0

hehe

did my bro just come again?

exedraj

@PyGamer0 `«ṁ ¬₃ ⁋⟑ ẋǎ λ¬ we'll ¬λ it's λ•`

PyGamer0

@exedraj ok

@emanresuA no he dosnt know about this

exedraj

@PyGamer0 `do λ• ¬λ λ₴ to æ‡ •⅛⟑Ŀ ₌ǒ?`

PyGamer0

@exedraj `I ∧½ λ₅`

ok stop he is not here

he is playing games

exedraj

08:21

@PyGamer0 `λ₴ do I ¬λ λ× ⋏°'t ⟑ġ Þµ ½□ to ¦Ṡ us?`

Bubbler

Ṡ us

PyGamer0

@exedraj `Ok he is λ† λḞ STOP`

exedraj

Oh ok

Cool

PyGamer0

@exedraj you live in sydney?

lol

exedraj

@PyGamer0 no that's JoKing

I live further north

In the Hunter Region

PyGamer0

08:33

@exedraj Hunter?

anyways

what overload should I do for × if both args are string

Bubbler

Multiply charcodes

ez

PyGamer0

done

exedraj

08:52

Hunter Region

The Hunter Region, also commonly known as the Hunter Valley, is a region of New South Wales, Australia, extending from approximately 120 km (75 mi) to 310 km (193 mi) north of Sydney. It contains the Hunter River and its tributaries with highland areas to the north and south. Situated at the northern end of the Sydney Basin bioregion, the Hunter Valley is one of the largest river valleys on the NSW coast, and is most commonly known for its wineries and coal industry. Most of the population of the Hunter Region lives within 25 km (16 mi) of the coast, with 55% of the entire population living in...

Unrelated String

it's weird how half the time new south wales seems like a perfectly normal placename to me and the other half of the time it's just too funny

exedraj

Yass

Unrelated String

looking into it, there was also new north wales in canada paired with a new south wales in canada, but there doesn't seem to have been a new north wales in australia, and in the canadian case why isn't it north/south new wales

AviFS

@exedraj Is Vyxal running on a paid account of PythonAnywhere?

PyGamer0

^ ms paint font (took me 10 minures)

^ python program (took me 10 minuets)

conclusion: making fonts is very hard (i failed 4 times before this)

have any of you met each other irl?

exedraj

09:10

@AviFS free account

@PyGamer0 no

Well maybe Adam and a few others

But I haven't

emanresu A

I've been here for six months, what do you thonk?

PyGamer0

@emanresuA i dont thonk i think

emanresu A

Too bad

Adám

@PyGamer0 The only one in the room right now that I've meet IRL is LeakyNun. He visited me at home a couple of times.

PyGamer0

@Adám oh what about people who are not jn the room?

Adám

09:23

@PyGamer0 One more, I think.

Dude coinheringaahing

10:15

> (638) The Nineteenth Byte

Damn you guys are chatty :P

Also, MSE just had it's 33000th discussion question O.o

emanresu A

@Dudecoinheringaahing We has chatted

We also got invaded by @PyGamerBrother...

PyGamer0

thrice

but i forgot to bookmark the third time

emanresu A

@Dudecoinheringaahing We chatted lots while you coinheringaahed. (Is that a word? It is now...)

PyGamer0

what does coinheringaahed mean

he waz gone?

Dude coinheringaahing

I am caird, who coinheringaahings. Yesterday, I coinheringaahed, and tomorrow I will coinheringaahing

5

PyGamer0

10:23

@Dudecoinheringaahing arent you Dude?

Dude coinheringaahing

@PyGamer0 Only in name, in spirit I am caird :P

exedraj

@Dudecoinheringaahing that also includes my HTML renderer that is a polyglot in Vyxal, Jelly, 05ab1e and a whole bunch of other languages

emanresu A

6 hours ago, by exedraj

so my HTML renderer ignores all tags and displays the HTML as is

Also works for CSS

JS is also just a suggestion of what the browser should do. My JS implementation always outputs 42.

exedraj

Gotta love web technology specifications making things simple for web browser designers :p

emanresu A

10:43

'night

exedraj

12:07

oh hey aaron

Aaron Miller

tfw you have a big project you've been wanting to start, and you tell everyone that you'll start it over the weekend, but then saturday morning your body says "hey, you know what would be more fun? feeling like garbage for two days straight!"

exedraj

that sounds like procrastination but without the part where you actually experience momentary fun

Aaron Miller

essentially, yes

user

12:38

You alright?

exedraj

> lol you good my epic gamer?

FTFY

user

*u

Also, idk if amiller is a slave, but in any case, i don’t own him, so “my” doesn’t work

Aaron Miller

I'm good now, but I couldn't do anything all weekend.

user

Yeah i hate it when aliens abduct me too. At least these ones were considerate enough to do it over the weekend and not during thr week

Aaron Miller

yeah, that was nice of them

Dude coinheringaahing

12:48

The week is so boring for me, I'd enjoy being abducted by aliens on a Thursday tbh

6

Wezl

Storage A: I sometimes delete your files
Storage B: I'm inconvenient to access
me: chooses storage B
Storage B: deletes my files

also, good morning

PyGamer0

@Wezl good evening

exedraj

@Dudecoinheringaahing we'll gladly oblige your request

Wezl

tbf Storage B deleted my files because I shut down when it said keep your computer on

exedraj

@Dudecoinheringaahing what time suits you?

Dude coinheringaahing

12:53

@exedraj I enjoy a lie-in, so 11am?

pxeger

@Dudecoinheringaahing BST?

exedraj

Is that 11am UTC?

Dude coinheringaahing

Do you provide free coffee to abductees?

exedraj

tea, coffee, whatever

you want it, we (probably) have it

just not pickle juice

if you request that we'll throw you back out

Dude coinheringaahing

@exedraj I'd prefer 10am UTC (11am BST) but that also works for me

Jo King

12:55

did you know caffeine suppositories exist? bringing it up for no reason

exedraj

@Dudecoinheringaahing no no, 10am UTC is good

see you then ;)

Dude coinheringaahing

I look forward to being abducted :)

exedraj

we look forward to having you :)

@JoKing this, and other search queries I'll probably regret making

Adám

13:11

@JoKing Can you give stackoverflow.com/users/7089017/user7089017 write access to chat.stackexchange.com/rooms/52405?

pxeger

13:42

CMC: most niche CPython builtin type (as measured by bytes of code needed to obtain an instance)

my favourite has to be UnraisableHookArgs

user

Java: Look what they need to mimic a fraction of our verbosity

pxeger

ato.pxeger.com/…

PyGamer0

13:57

umm i think i should say hi

Aaron Miller

yo

user

Hi @Slate, welcome to TNB!

Slate

Hello hello!

user

Are you here because of all the complaints CGCC has on meta? :P

Slate

Hahah, of course, of course :P

(Nah, I just have this chat starred :)

Dude coinheringaahing

14:19

I'm sure you just had to check us out after all of Catija's horror stories about us :P

Aaron Miller

14:37

in ＴｈｅＭｏｓｔＣｕｒｓｅｄＲｏｏｍ, 2 mins ago, by Aaron Miller

Hmm... How are we going to implement goto in JavaScript?

That's not a cursed sentence at all

Dude coinheringaahing

Do goto_eval("<program as string>"), and implement it yourself :P

Aaron Miller

:thonk:

Dude coinheringaahing

15:17

Oh wow, didn't even realise that today's XKCD is the 2500th one: xkcd.com/2500

Aaron Miller

> I somehow graduate despite spending most of my time playing Mario Kart

Dude coinheringaahing

> I get very into Star Wars and Animorphs

..am I Randall Monroe but 20 years younger? :P

user

Someone must've cloned Randall Munroe and sent that clone into the future as Dude

:P

tjjfvi

@PyGamer0 Probably, why?

ngn

15:41

@Adám @user41805 aleph is never a vowel in native semitic words, but could be in loanwords like "bug": beth-aleph-gimmel rather than beth-gimmel

Adám

15:51

@ngn No, even then, it isn't a vowel, but a kind of placeholder.

ngn

@Adám "used as" / "placeholder for" - what's the difference..

Adám

Semantic, mostly, but people will be confused if you refer to them as vowels – other than when used in non-Semitic Jewish languages.

Wheat Wizard

16:08

Does Yiddish use them as vowels then?

Adám

Yes. Yiddish basically uses the Assyrian abjad as (lossy) transliteration of German.

Wheat Wizard

Yeah makes sense. It has always seemed a bit curious about how a Germanic language, a family known for gratuitous vowel distinctions, could be written in an abjad.

I guess the answer is that you don't quite use it as an abjad.

Adám

No, not at all. It is definitely an alphabet.

So ayin stands for e and ö and ä, aleph stands for a and o (and that's often vowel-marked to disambiguate), Waw stands for u, Yud stands for i and ü.

Wheat Wizard

I should read up on this. It seems very interesting.

Adám

In addition, Waw-Yud stands for various German diphthongs, typically au.

Yud-Yud stands for ai and ei.

And then as an orthographic decoration, Aleph is prepended to words that would otherwise begin with Waw, and according to some, Yud.

So German Jüdisch becomes Yud-Yud-Daleth-Yud-Shin, but some replace the first Yud with an Aleph.

Since i and ü collapse into an i sound, the Jüdisch Deutsch is called Yiddish [Taitsh].

Wheat Wizard

16:18

@Adám This was really confusing me because I was expecting an rtl. :)

Adám

:-) Got you!

Wheat Wizard

Although Shin-Yud-Daleth-Yud-Yud would have been really confusing to read.

Adám

Btw, now that I've got you, can you give chat.stackexchange.com/users/412643/user7089017 write access to chat.stackexchange.com/rooms/52405/the-apl-orchard?

Wheat Wizard

Is this the same user?

I thought I already gave them access.

Adám

Didn't seem to have worked.

Wheat Wizard

16:22

I tried again.

This whole process is very confusing to me.

Adám

I don't see them on the access list.

Don't worry, it is confusing to everyone.

Wheat Wizard

I tried again I think?

I see them on the list.

Adám

Yes, now I do too. Thanks!

PyGamer0

@tjjfvi nahjustasking

ngn

17:03

@WheatWizard yeah, some languages suffer from using the wrong alphabet. reminds of polish or farsi.

Wheat Wizard

Irish is a good one.

Irish has more distinct consonant sounds than the Latin alphabet has letters.

ngn

right

Adám

English! English, for goodness sake!

Wheat Wizard

English has bad orthography but for the most part it doesn't have to do with the Latin Alphabet.

ngn

well, a germanic language using the alphabet of a romance language :)

Wheat Wizard

17:08

English has a couple of consonants not in Latin and altogether too many vowels, but it mostly fits.

Adám

The vowel situation is completely out of control.

Wheat Wizard

Take as many guesses as you would like on how thabharfainn is pronounced.

Adám

Danish isn't much better either. The letter u can officially (according to the Danish language council) take on 20 distinct vowel sounds, not counting situations when it is directly affected by surrounding letters, not part of a diphthong. And 20 is approximately the number of vowels in Danish.

Wheat Wizard

It is really a shame because Old Irish did have it's own writing system which made sense for it, but it's stuck with Latin now.

Adám

However, it isn't just the fault of mismatched language-vs-writing; languages also evolve away from their previously well-matched writ.

Wheat Wizard

17:13

At least Danish doesn't have r colored vowels thrown into the mess.

Aaron Miller

spoken/written language is wack and we should all switch to Vyxal. /s

ngn

@WheatWizard is that the same as (irish) gaelic? do many people speak that as their native language?

Adám

@WheatWizard More like r being so soft that it often becomes close to a vowel, but then it can appear after k and become /x/…

And then of course Danish has the all-important (meaning-bearing) stød which isn't, and cannot be, written at all.

Wheat Wizard

Danish has the uvular aproximant right? That's a lot nicer a sound than English's indescribable rhotic.

@ngn I'm not sure what you are asking. Old Irish is sometimes called Gaelic and is the parent tongue of Scottish Gaelic, Irish and Manx. Noone speaks Old Irish natively as far as I know.

Adám

@WheatWizard In principle, yes, but the exceptions, oh the exceptions:

> Most often an approximant when initial. In other positions, it can be either a fricative (also described as voiceless [χ]) or an approximant. Also described as pharyngeal [ʕ̞]. It can be a fricative trill in word-initial positions when emphasizing a word.

ngn

17:18

@WheatWizard that answers whatever i was asking, thanks :)

Wheat Wizard

That sounds pretty normal. Approximants often get transformed into vowels or fricatives in speech. German does similar with it's Uvular approximant.

Adám

Finnish is great, though. Its spelling is basically phonetic with one letter per phoneme, except that doubled vowels are long versions of their short single versions.

@WheatWizard I generally tell people to pronounce r as a weak u, or if that is too hard, simply make it silent :-)

Wheat Wizard

u? I might not be understanding but that seems wrong to me.

I would say it is closes to a which is like the most different a vowel can be from u.

Adám

Oh, I mean as an English "you".

ngn

what is even "u" and "a" without ipa

Adám

17:26

IPA doesn't even work well for Danish.

Wheat Wizard

English "you" is [juː], which is the vowel I thought you meant. It still seems odd to me, but I don't know.

Yeah there are some languages for which the ipa is not very good.

This is especially true for languages outside of Europe, but still some European languages have issues.

Adám

@WheatWizard Like "rød" I'd say "(y)uoeð"

ngn

@WheatWizard still, ipa can describe sounds more precisely than latin letters in isolation

Wheat Wizard

Yeah. ipa is nice. It could be nicer but it is nice.

Adám

I think that technically IPA can describe Danish accurately, but only if using loads of those strange ⊤ and ⊥ thingies under the letters.

Wheat Wizard

17:33

Well yeah, that's sort of the importance of having broad vs. narrow transcriptions.

The r in my dialect of English is not describable by the standard of IPA, however if I use /r/ or /ɹ/ context is enough to communicate what sound I am talking about.

A big problem in like Irish is that Irish distingushes between velar and palatal secondary articulation so even in broad transcriptions you have a million superscripts because you can't leave them out.

ngn

@WheatWizard from the point of view of broad transcription, the question is not whether you can leave them out, but whether they play a role for distinguishing meaning

if there's a minimal pair - two words that are pronounced the same except for the feature in question - then it matters and should be included in the broad transcription

Wheat Wizard

Yeah, that's my point. Irish distinguishes between velar and palatal secondary articulation, /mˠ/ and /mʲ/ are different phonemes so you can't just write /m/ in Irish.

ngn

@WheatWizard but do they carry meaning?

Wheat Wizard

Yes, they belong to different phonemes

Adám

@WheatWizard But are there pairs of words where that is the only difference?

Wheat Wizard

17:46

I can't think of a minimal pair off the top of my head, but they are very much different phonemes.

ngn

ok, fair enough

Adám

In Danish "Hunden gør" and "Hunden gør" (with and without stød on "gør"; Hund always has stød) makes the difference between "the dog is barking" and "the dog is defecating".

Wheat Wizard

Irish makes this same distinction across all it's consonants.

user

@Adám Those look the same to me?

Adám

Yes, they are spelled the same. But there's an invisible "letter" that makes all the difference".

ngn

17:51

lol

Adám

Also "den næste dør" and "den næste dør", without and with stød on "dør" makes the difference between "[use] the next door" and "the next [patient] dies".

Wheat Wizard

Here's a minimal pair for a different letter "leon", (/lʲoːn̪ˠ/ lion) and "lón" (/l̪ˠoːn̪ˠ/ lunch).

Adám

You'd rather be the lion than the lunch!

user

Given the right circumstances, you can be both

Adám

@WheatWizard How many human languages do you know?

ngn

17:56

@WheatWizard nice! what does the thing below "n" and the second "l" mean?

Wheat Wizard

Ok here's a minimal pair for the /m/: "mín" (/mʲiːnʲ/, smooth) and "maoin" ([mˠiːnʲ], property, assets)

My little brother invaded

My little bro invades Part 2

Transcript for