The Nineteenth Byte

12:00 AM

@cairdcoinheringaahing also you have like 10 operators to change the stack positions whereas with tacit you just write your code to do what you intend lol

rak1507

@cairdcoinheringaahing depends, in jelly I find it quite hard to get stuff to do what I want often, and end up having to put in a bunch of things to get around that

hyper-neutrino

@user oh, now we know who to blame for Ash's death

rak1507

although a more experienced jelly-er could probably do it

hyper-neutrino

@rak1507 I used to use the argument nilads a lot (and I think totallyhuman used $ a lot, or maybe it was the other way around) and while it works, the thing about tacit is there is often a much more elegant way of restructuring it to avoid needing all of those extra things

it comes with experience though; it's by no means easy and I've been doing jelly over 4 years and I still frequently miss ways to optimize my code not by picking different builtins but by restructuring to avoid redundancy and things like argument nilads

rak1507

I need to do more jelly :P

hyper-neutrino

12:04 AM

friendly reminder that JHT exists, yes this is an advertisement, deal with it

user

@rak1507 Don't do jelly, kids! Do meth instead, it's a lot more healthy

rak1507

lol

user

Obligatory for legal reasons, that's a joke

caird coinheringaahing

@hyper-neutrino Honestly, take a look at some of Erik's and Leaky's answers, especially when they first started learning. They used a lot of superscripts, and niladic chains, and massive amounts of $

user

Americans.

caird coinheringaahing

12:12 AM

Neither of them are American :P

hyper-neutrino

@cairdcoinheringaahing I think the only person who started out with Jelly the "right" way is Dennis :P

caird coinheringaahing

Lynn

user

lol, just trying to make a (poor) joke :P

New Posts

0

Q: NP-complete reduction: (grid-)Hamiltonian circuit

Background Hamiltonian circuit problem is a decision problem which asks whether a given graph has a Hamiltonian circuit, i.e. a cycle that visits every vertex exactly once. This problem is one of the well-known NP-complete problems. It is also known that it remains so when restricted to grid grap...

user

@hyper-neutrino I doubt Dennis started out with M the "right" way, though

caird coinheringaahing

12:13 AM

Lynn basically had a couple of days of intense discussion with Dennis about how Jelly worked, back when it first began, and then became a master with it

hyper-neutrino

Oh wow, lol :P

actually then again I haven't looked at like nick or jonathan's earlier answers so idk if they were just that good to begin with

caird coinheringaahing

As an indicator: Lynn started the tips page while learning how Jelly worked, and immediately wrote the tutorial

hyper-neutrino

o lol

Bubbler

And his answer to the Elevator sequence is the smartest Jelly in the recent few months I believe

caird coinheringaahing

@hyper-neutrino Jonathan had a pretty solid understanding from what I've seen, but has gradually improved his understanding of some key tricks ({ and } etc.)

@Bubbler ... woah

That's some Dennis level of algorithmic black magic

hyper-neutrino

12:18 AM

I wish you could bookmark answers

I need to take a better look at this like 4 times :P

caird coinheringaahing

Following works

hyper-neutrino

true

caird coinheringaahing

@hyper-neutrino Same, I've reread it twice and I get how it works, but not why it works

rak1507

@cairdcoinheringaahing lynn is surprisingly good at everything

caird coinheringaahing

It looks like ⁴pLṚ¤ also works, but that obscures the fact that the final entries don't have to be pairs, and I'm holding out for some Jelly pro to tell me how to forgo ⁴ and ¤ entirely. — Lynn 10 hours ago

Unless Lynn expects Dennis to come back, I want to know who they think a "Jelly pro" better than them is :P

hyper-neutrino

12:21 AM

that answer may very well inspire me to return to hardcore training on actually getting good at jelly cuz i haven't had any good answers in a while tbh .-.

caird coinheringaahing

@hyper-neutrino I don't think I've had a Jelly answer I'm especially proud of since my answer to "Jam don't add like that" :/

And really, that was only because the challenge said "Jelly is banned because it's trivial" and I went "Watch me make it not trivial", the answer itself isn't too impressive

user

Lynn has been summoned :P

Lynn

I suddenly got a bunch of rep for that answer and figured I should pop in here so someone can explain ɓ to me!!

oh, I just realized the footer Unrelated String added to my answer has a @ in it which was vastly magnifying my confusion about ɓ

caird coinheringaahing

It's basically ð but with the arguments reversed right?

Lynn

12:39 AM

well, picture my confusion when I didn't see that @, and it looked like it was reversing the arguments everywhere but the chain it introduces

Codidact Posts

New Posts - Challenges - Code Golf: Versatile self-printer

posted on June 30, 2021 by AndrewTheCodegolfer

Using your languages of choice, golf a quine - a non-empty program taking no input and only outputting its source. Here, the win condition is your quine working in the most languages. It...

Lynn

Anyway, I haven't Jelly'd in a long time, but I looked at the problem statement and immediately thought “oh man. I'm going to create a weird list and grade it up” and I don't know what that says about me

`Ụ` is self-inverse on permutations of [1..n], so the first thing I did was run `Ụ` on the (7,5) test case's output, to get an idea of the shape of the list I'd have to create:
> [6, 7, 4, 5, 2, 3, 13, 14, 11, 12, 9, 10, 20, 21, 18, 19, 16, 17, 27, 28, 25, 26, 23, 24, 34, 35, 32, 33, 30, 31, 29, 22, 15, 8, 1]

A 1 in this list means "the smallest element has to go here", and a 35 in this list mean "the largest element has to go here". I figured, if I create any list that's sorted that, and grade it up again, I'll have my answer

Then I noticed 6, 7, 4, 5, 2, 3 is [7..2] xor 1 because I've done this stuff for too long

hyper-neutrino

that ^1 trick is really smart but that's like the only part I've gotten so far; the rest of it is way too smart and I still need to look through it a few times lol

Lynn

Then I noticed that it's basically 5 "rows" of 6 numbers that all jaggily descend like that [7..2] xor 1, and the 5 numbers at the end [29,22,15,8,1] fit in between those rows… like
```
(there's a 1 at the end)
6, 7, 4, 5, 2, 3
(there's an 8 at the end)
13, 14, 11, 12, 9, 10
(there's a 15 at the end)
20, 21, 18, 19, 16, 17
...
```

caird coinheringaahing

12:55 AM

SE should be going down in 5 or so minutes, just in case y'all have missed it

Lynn

OK wow, that makes no sense if I try to explain it, but, that's how I realized I could use p and then have something like [n] or [n,1] or [n,0] at the end that "fits between the rows" of the product, lexicographically. (takes a bow)

Aaron Miller

How learn Jelly?

caird coinheringaahing

JHT and a lot of agonizing :P

Aaron Miller

Cool, I’m down for that :p

rak1507

@Lynn lmao I thought that too bit with APL, couldn't find a way to generate the inverse-gradeup though

Lynn

12:59 AM

I cleaned up the explanation of how Ụ yields the right result, while trying not to make it seem like less of a magic trick

OldSandboxPosts

Sandbox posts last active a week ago: Reverse RegEx

hyper-neutrino

1:31 AM

@NewPosts if I'm reading this right, converting a graph directly into a grid graph that "looks" the same (and therefore has the same structure) should work right? although IDK if that's fast enough complexity

att

that's not necessarily possible

e.g. K5 can't be drawn on a plane without edges intersecting

hyper-neutrino

oh true

AviFS

2:12 AM

I don't see a simple "reverse the list" question, do you guys? Only some more complex variations of it

codegolf.stackexchange.com/search?q=reverse+list

caird coinheringaahing

2:24 AM

@AviFS Yes, we do have that, let me find it for you :)

-18

Q: Reverse a 1-dimensional array

Note: This challenge is not the same. Challenge Believe it or not, we haven't got ONE challenge for reversing one-dimensional arrays (although we've got one for n-dimensional ones)! This should operate only on the 1st dimension, not on all dimensions of an array. Rules Standard loopholes are den...

code-golf string array-manipulation

I have a feeling that a large number of those downvotes were initially prompted by the originally strict I/O format, then stuck around as it's a very trivial challenge

Razetime

that's the most i've seen on an open post

hyper-neutrino

oh it's tied for 9th most downvoted question lol

Unrelated String

2:44 AM

@hyper-neutrino I tried using ^1in my solution but it didn't quite work out so it was really nice to see it sneak back in lol

hyper-neutrino

lol, nice

Redwolf Programs

@cairdcoinheringaahing Controversialness of 6.23 lol

Redwolf Programs

3:12 AM

Took a brief look at Fortran, I actually kind of like it. Reminds me of TI-BASIC.

Anyone else here subjected to TI-BASIC as their first programming language?

Bubbler

3:25 AM

Not really TI, but I think Casio calculators had something similar, and I once made a little textual game in it before I was exposed to C

Redwolf Programs

3:55 AM

I think I'm addicted to shopping for relays on digikey now lol

lyxal

4:06 AM

I saw a number plate on a car that was 69YEET

Now I'm envious of them

Redwolf Programs

You should be

A username

According to my AI, Lyxal is "in violent shocks of his watches of an one huge slabs of land in his nose to hear that school of the while some fresh fare fit out of it completely to take to ahab would be sensible conclusion that sort of the lonely castaway creatures".

I really shouldn't've trained it on Moby-Dick.

Redwolf Programs

All of the interesting contact forms for reed relays (SPST-NC, DPST-NO/NC, SPST×2, etc.) are super expensive because they're meant for insanely high voltage applications :(

I don't need my (imaginary) relay computer to handle 5 KV

Razetime

@RedwolfPrograms worse, my first language was C

Redwolf Programs

That's not as bad

Not nearly

A username

4:24 AM

When some noob beats Arnauld, and together with my golfs beats tsh

Razetime

@Ausername don't assume that people are noobs, it can be an alt

A username

Sorry. It's a really good answer tho.

Idk why no one thought of that.

Redwolf Programs

Arnauld is so 8 dimensional they overlook solutions mere mortals would find :p

Underslash

was going through downvoted threads and whatnot, and this comment reminded me a lot of this copypasta lol

A username

@RedwolfPrograms And tsh is 9-dimensional.

@RedwolfPrograms According to my AI, you are "not".

Question: Why is this question #4244 even though it's the first?

Redwolf Programs

4:34 AM

Might've been migrated or something

hyper-neutrino

it was

A username

From where?

Razetime

Stack overflow

SO used to have many code golf questions

A username

Oh

Razetime

and then people demanded a code golf site which also extended into other recreational programming contests

so those were moved here since they would be more on-topic

A username

4:36 AM

Would you like my AI to tell you what you are?

Razetime

no thanks

A username

4:49 AM

@lyxal kv is broken

lyxal

6:53 AM

@Ausername now it isn't

it was quite an interesting bug

here's the explanation: so the parser groups the digraph before actually doing the parsing (there's nothing wrong with this). It then loops through each "character" in the code (with strings and digraphs being treated as a single character - once again, nothing wrong with this), parsing one character at a time. One of the checks it does is to see if the character is a prefix operator - these characters are stored in a string (also nothing wrong with this) -- the check is char in ONE_CHAR.

The funny thing here was that the k and the v were next to each other in the ONE_CHAR

so "kv" in ONE_CHAR would evaluate as truthy

hence thinking it was a prefix operator

hence not parsing correctly

and hence why postfix operators make life way easier

because there's no need to do any looking ahead

you just pop from the end of the token stack

Anush

7:44 AM

Hello!

@ngn my lack of skills and time essentially

I also have no interest in esolangs

StackMeter

print("YO".lower())

wasif

8:08 AM

hi everyone

@StackMeter why lower

@Ausername As A full JS newbie I once beat Arnauld without absolutely no effort

StackMeter

@wasif to make it lowercase

PyGamer0

ah yes time to rewrite my whole neovim config

Anush

I am confused by -flto. Should I just be able to add that to my CFLAGS and have it work (in gcc)?

wasif

raku seems to be the only general purpose language which uses Unicode characters (Except APL family). are there any other Unicode using general purpose langs

Anush

julia?

depends what you mean exactly

PyGamer0

8:21 AM

@wasif julia

Anush

@PyGamer0 snap :)

wasif

oh Julia

Unrelated String

@lyxal i feel like it's easier to talk about tokenization as the first step of parsing than it is to talk about grouping digraphs before parsing and treating strings as single characters

Anush

only 4 days left... codegolf.stackexchange.com/questions/230353/…

wasif

@Anush yes I meant non ASCII chars

Anush

8:22 AM

@wasif python can handle unicode by default I think but there are no unicode commands

wasif

I meant unicode commands

many languages can handle unicode chars in strings

Anush

docs.python.org/3/reference/lexical_analysis.html#identifiers

and as identifiers

wasif

oh nice

xash

8:40 AM

@Bubbler I hadn't any coffein and didn't read the full paper yet– but doesn't the graph need to be planar at least so it can fit the grid? The paper has the constraints of being bipartite, planar and maximum degree of 3. And reducing the graph to these properties while maintaining the Hamiltonian circuit answer seems more than polynomial (fe IIRC finding K5 wouldn't work in that time).

Bubbler

@xash The direct conversion probably wouldn't work well. The only thing I can say is that it is theoretically 100% solvable just because both problems are NP-complete (unless the linked paper is totally wrong).

You'd probably need to go through 3SAT, for instance

xash

8:56 AM

Ahh, I see. Interesting challange, I hope someone manages to find a solution. :-)

Bubbler

I hope so too, though I can imagine it'll go unsolved for very long. It's intended to be extremely hard after all :P

Spam flags please

New Posts

0

Q: The worst ever phone number entry screen

Challenge prompted by this GIF. Your challenge today is to input a number guaranteed to be 2<=n<=100 and output a sequence of x and - characters. The output for a number N represents a sequence of operations applied to 1 where x means "multiply by 2" and - means "subtract 1". Starting from 1, rea...

math code-challenge

Adám

@NewPosts I have a feeling this is a dupe

math

Has anyone noticed this, with the CGCC graduation extension?

that's great for new users

Adám

Except that new users never use the graduation script.

math

9:10 AM

@new users okay, now i'm recommending it to new users

Adám

How will you reach them?

the default.

'please install this extension so that it always warns you to read the same page every time you make a sandbox post'?

math

okay, it's not that helpfull

math

9:24 AM

@Adám regarding my challenge, do you write eg. (2+5)a?

or (2+5)*a?

Adám

@math I wouldn't normally, but I wouldn't consider it wrong.

math

i'll search some formulas out

i didn't find any in andlearning.org/math-formula, so i'll say it's "wrong"

A username

@Bubbler Gosh, I never thought they'd start answering.

math

9:42 AM

@Bubbler it translates to this

what's this nonsense and link?

Razetime

10:04 AM

@math indonesian gambling spam

math

gambling?

Razetime

yeah.

Bubbler

Slots is one of very well known forms of gambling

PyGamer0

10:23 AM

why do people post IGS

this isnt a gambling website nor a spamming website

nor an Indonesian website

A username

10:46 AM

idk

A username

11:00 AM

I don;t know, I'm not the challenge author. But, if I were, I'd just count the filename as part of the length, as we do in most cases where this comes up — caird coinheringaahing Mar 29 at 23:01

So I;m not the first one...

New Posts

0

Q: Traverse N-size array to construct sequence from 1 to N

Challenge Given N - size array with all elements are 1, When you step on a element, that element increments by one. Find the shortest path to sort array in ascending order from 1 to N. For example if N = 5, make the array from 1-1-1-1-1 to 1-2-3-4-5. Rules If an element contains highest number (...

programming-puzzle algorithm

A username

CMQ: Sites that are different from the regular SE Q&A format?

I can think of three:

Here (obviously)
Puzzling - similar to us in that questions are created, not as help
WB in that the answers are people's ideas

math

stack apps?

A username

11:15 AM

@math Isn't it still Q&A, just about the stackapps API?

math

oh, ok, i thought you post apps there

A username

Oh true

Actually I think it's half-and-half

PyGamer0

12:22 PM

@NewPosts the most downvotes??

CMC: Given a string double each character. Ex: "hi" -> "hhii"

CMC: Given a string double each vowel. Ex: "bye" -> "byee"

Adám

@PyGamer0 APL: 2∘/

lyxal

@cairdcoinheringaahing I know you said that advertisements aren't something you like, but what about this

Adám

@PyGamer0 All lowercase?

lyxal

@PyGamer0 Vyxal, 2•

PyGamer0

@Adám yes

lyxal

12:27 PM

@PyGamer0 Vyxal sr, 6 bytes: ƛk∨cß+

Adám

@PyGamer0 QuadR, 10 bytes: [aeiou] && Try it online!

user

@NewPosts can’t this be deleted?

Adám

@PyGamer0 APL, 16: {⍵/⍨1+⍵∊'aeiou'} Try it online!

New Posts

0

Q: Odds that a string of N digits contains two or more of the same

I have to fill in 2fa codes all day. They're 6-digit numbers. One day I noticed that not once did any of these codes contain 6 unique digits, like 198532 There was always at least one double, like 198539 (here it's 9). For any given random number of N digits, what is the odds for this happening? ...

probability-theory

0

Q: How many bead arrangements on the abacus?

Your toy in this challenge is a special abacus of 4 rows and 8 positions per row. There's one bead on the first row, 2 beads on the 2nd row, 3 beads on the 3rd row and 4 beads on the 4th row. Beads on a same row are glued together, which means that they can only be moved as a block. Below is a va...

code-golf array-manipulation

Leaky Nun

12:52 PM

@PyGamer0 Jelly, 7 bytes: ØcċⱮ‘x@

@PyGamer0 Jelly, 1 byte: Ḥ

lyxal

@PyGamer0 Vyxal, 1 byte: Y

math

@lyxal doesn't look like there's a command to find vowels in a string

or is it?

Unrelated String

1:52 PM

@NewPosts to be honest, when i saw the title ccdsdadassssssssssssssssssssssssssssd and the abstract algebra tag, my first thought was "yeah checks out"

caird coinheringaahing

→ 1 message moved to The Nineteenth Bakery

@user status-completed (HN spam-nuked it)

@Ausername Not really. Stack Apps is mainly for presenting userscripts and applications about SE. It also allows questions about itself when tagged with meta, and questions about the API are on topic there

Sandbox Posts

0

A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

Find out what type of adjective it is There are 3 types of adjectives: absolute, comparative, and superlative adjectives. Your program should print what type of adjective it is. Notes Input will be a string, (not always 1 word), it'll be an adjective Output must be either of these (the form of t...

caird coinheringaahing

New Posts, you seem to have missed one?

@NewPosts status

New Posts

RUNNING: [1] 1 1

[13:59:21] request: chat.stackexchange.com/chats/240/messages/new
[14:00:21] 202-question-2140
[14:02:09] status: 240

hyper-neutrino

stackapps is the place to post apps/scripts/extensions relating to SE usage and its own help/Q+A, sandbox, and meta :P

0

Q: Calculate the ISO week of Gregorian Easter

As in this question, your task – should you choose to accept it – is to calculate the date of Easter Sunday according to the Gregorian Computus (as used in the Catholic Church and most others) when provided with only a year number as input, in as few characters as possible without relying on East...

code-golf date

Shaggy

2:02 PM

@PyGamer0 Japt -m, 1 byte: ²

caird coinheringaahing

Weird (cc @RedwolfPrograms)

Shaggy

@PyGamer0 Japt v2.0a0, 5 bytes: r\v_²

hyper-neutrino

seems like a decent amount of date challenges recently - not sure if it's any higher than usual, but it feels like it

user

2:18 PM

Subway Surfers review

math

spam?

user

No, just a ridiculous review. A lot of them are angry about the game "adding the pride" (apparently, they added a level or something for Pride Month)

caird coinheringaahing

2:34 PM

@hyper-neutrino So this was "inspired" by (quoting OP) the linked question, which asks answerers to find the date of Easter. The only difference is that this one just wants to week of the year, rather than the full date. I suspect most answers would just calculate the date, then get the week, but it might be possible to use the week fact to find a shorter approach

Dupe hammer?

New Posts

0

Q: Will the Hydra finally die?

Background A Medusa have released a dangerous Hydra which is revived unless the exact number of heads it have is removed. The knights can remove a certain number of heads with each type of attack, and each attack causes a specific amount of heads to regrow. The knights have hired you to write a p...

code-golf number game

user

Lots of challenges in the past couple days

caird coinheringaahing

Especially today, I think that's the 8th?

user

@NewPosts My dupe senses are tingling

Codidact Posts

New Posts - Challenges - Code Golf: Recreate the Server Fault logo

posted on June 30, 2021 by Derrick Williams

Make the Server Fault logo using the following criteria:

hyper-neutrino

2:41 PM

graphical-output gets boring after a while when it's just the same concept spammed over and over

user

Creating Stack Exchange logos on Codidact lol

caird coinheringaahing

@CodidactPosts Why are the heights and gaps different, and by one pixel?

hyper-neutrino

and wouldn't it make more sense to draw Codidact site logos on Codidact?

Codidact isn't just "SE but over there"

user

@hyper-neutrino This user has more in the Sandbox

hyper-neutrino

@user I've seen

rak1507

2:42 PM

lol, relentless...

caird coinheringaahing

They also started posting them here, and I believe they've seen Codidact as a replacement place for their challenges

user

I guess they just really like the logos

@cairdcoinheringaahing Yes, they've expressed that they're going to Codidact for now and will return here when they're allowed to

rak1507

bit strange

user

They'll probably stop posting logo challenges soon, hopefully

hyper-neutrino

doubt

caird coinheringaahing

2:44 PM

I can't imagine there are any more especially interesting SE logos

Puzzling might work, but most of them are too complex to make good graphical-output challenges

hyper-neutrino

TBH IMO drawing logos often isn't an interesting challenge anyway

logos are made to look nice and having all of the lines line up often is counterproductive to that, so logos often are quite inconsistent and thus there aren't really any clever tricks when drawing many of them

flags tend to be more interesting IMO

caird coinheringaahing

I reckon they should go for the Physics.SE logo :P

user

@hyper-neutrino Vyxal has entered the chat

hyper-neutrino

@cairdcoinheringaahing o.O

@user ಠ_ಠ

user

/s, of course

Unrelated String

2:48 PM

why aren't all of the flags country flag emoji

user

Because then America would become Liberia

caird coinheringaahing

@user 6 today (UTC days), 2 yesterday, 0 the day before

user

6 is a lot for us

Btw, any feedback on this Codidact draft? It's caird's challenge but easier (imo). Any test cases I should add?

caird coinheringaahing

8 if we count the 2 deleted ones today

user

Why not? That was some quality spam

:P

caird coinheringaahing

2:51 PM

We've hit 8 questions in a day 9 times in the past 4 months

This will be the 10th

hyper-neutrino

it's unfortunate for us that qpd is such an important indicator for graduation

we did hit 10.6 qpd somehow though, during graduation

caird coinheringaahing

We hit it because there was a massive drive to do so :P

user

Did someone clog the Sandbox's tubes long enough for 70 questions to accumulate? :P

New Posts

0

Q: Distribute the additions!

Challenge: Given an expressions made of additions and multiplications, output an expression that is a sum of products. The output must be equivalent to the input modulo the law of distribution. For example, \$1 + ((2 + 5\times 6) \times(3+4))\$ becomes \$1 + 2 \times 3 + 2 \times 4 + 5\times6\tim...

code-golf arithmetic

hyper-neutrino

yet another one. wow

caird coinheringaahing

2:55 PM

7.9 questions a day means you all are getting close. I'm guessing (at this rate) you'll get an election later in the year and a design sometime later. Not much else to say, really. — Jon Ericson Jan 15 '16 at 4:11

rak1507

@NewPosts would be interesting in prolog

hyper-neutrino

seems annoying for jelly

caird coinheringaahing

It's parsing, of course it's annoying for Jelly :P

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