The Nineteenth Byte

00:02

> Jelly, 1 byte: l Licks the nearest plane according to your geographical coordinates when run

I like when I paste a Sandbox draft into the "Ask question" page and it suggests 3 of my own challenges as duplicates :/

Bubbler

It happens to me too, though most of the time they're only superficially similar

caird coinheringaahing

00:20

0

Q: Reconstruct a recursively prime-encoded integer

Recursively prime-encoded integers Consider \$11681169775023850 = 2 \times 5 \times 5 \times 42239 \times 5530987843\$. This isn't a nice prime factorisation, as \$42239\$ and \$5530987843\$ make it difficult to store this factorisation in a small manner. Being primes, we can't then factorise the...

As it appears the bots are down (@RedwolfPrograms, @hyper-neutrino)

hyper-neutrino

well this is concerning

the bots are responding to status requests correctly

okay so I'm running my iteration of the bots right now, if there's double posting just ping me and trash the messages or smth

caird coinheringaahing

This could do with a final close vote

hyper-neutrino

i'm busy so I can't guarantee i'm here 100% of the time to babysit the bots

if you check the sandbox, there are two instances running, but since redwolf's isn't posting messages here, i'm assuming its sockets are broken and it'll just stay non-functional

caird coinheringaahing

0

Q: Pointers/help for hosting my own programming language (with an interpreter written in Python)

I recently released my own programming language, Rattle, and now I'm looking to find somewhere to host it. It's already on the TIO waiting list but I don't think it'll get added any time in the near future (it's already been a year or so). Rattle's interpreter is written in Python as of right now...

discussion

New meta post - VTC as not on topic?

I've voted to close this as off topic as this isn't about Code Golf and Coding Challenges or it's main site. Feel free to ask for help on Stack Overflow or in chat, but meta isn't the appropriate place for such help questions — caird coinheringaahing 23 secs ago

hyper-neutrino

@cairdcoinheringaahing any target for the new challenge for jelly

caird coinheringaahing

00:32

@hyper-neutrino No, I didn't bother to solve it

lyxal

@cairdcoinheringaahing VTD as Dupe

caird coinheringaahing

00:42

@hyper-neutrino Correction: 9 bytes

hyper-neutrino

sadge

caird coinheringaahing

Spoiler: there's a 2 byte way of checking if an element is a list or not

hyper-neutrino

done :p

caird coinheringaahing

Otherwise, mine's the same except for µ -> $ :P

hyper-neutrino

ah yeah i had extra stuff earlier and didn't want to have to re-copy the combinator so i just put a link separator down :P

caird coinheringaahing

00:47

@hyper-neutrino Your explanation seems to be off a bit :P

hyper-neutrino

fixed? i think? :p

i have a 7-byter in yuno (some features were implemented after this challenge but they are pretty standard) but it's the same as my jelly approach

should i just add it to my jelly one or post it

OldSandboxPosts

Sandbox posts last active a week ago: Build a raw string

lyxal

01:15

@hyper-neutrino you might want to make the links from yuno not go to localhost...

exhibit A and exhibit B

hyper-neutrino

01:55

bruh

i thought i switched to the prod server to generate the permalinks lol

lyxal

gamer

Sandbox Posts

02:24

0

A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

Number of distinct shadow transforms code-golf sequence math number-theory Background Shadow transform of a 0-based integer sequence \$a(n)\$ is another 0-based integer sequence \$s(n)\$ defined with the following equation: $$ s(n) = \sum_{i=0}^{n-1}{(1 \text{ if } n \text{ divides } a(i), 0 \tex...

A username

04:52

:<)

hyper-neutrino

→ 16 messages moved to The Nineteenth Bakery

A username

Pounds of flour please?

Or ounces of sugar?

Wasif

hey why Nineteenth Bakery attempts to translate from Indonesian????

A username

That's kinda obvious.

smarnav

Wait, did one of my posts get started?

Wasif

04:58

where?

hyper-neutrino

@smarnav yes, these two

assuming you meant "starred", based on you getting the Talkative badge

Wasif

plus why all messages in 19th bakery is starred?

hyper-neutrino

because someone felt like star-spamming

and it's the trash room, so I don't care

PyGamer0

05:23

CMQ: Is sinh, cosh and tanh useful (in code golfing of course)?

Adám

I don't think I've ever used them in coding at all, even though APL has them as easily available as sin/cos/tan.

hyper-neutrino

i can't even remember if i've used them in my uni math courses so far lol

and i'm quite confident i've never used them in coding much less golfing before

A username

tanh was used in ash's flost division

tsh is a genius

AviFS

05:39

@PyGamer0 I also vote definitely not, given the things you can add instead

hyper-neutrino

if you're making a golfing language it probably wouldn't hurt to add them as digraphs

PyGamer0

i have sin cos tan and their inverses done

Razetime

wooo

Adám

@PyGamer0 What are their symbols?

PyGamer0

ms for sin mc for cos mt for tan and mS for arcsin and so on

Adám

05:46

@PyGamer0 Would something like this be an idea? A single symbol for all of them, and a number as a selector. Gives you plenty of functions with just two chars.

Razetime

in a stack based language, taking two number arguments oftentimes involves a space

hyper-neutrino

you don't need to take two arguments tho

although, unless you have more than 256, i think a digraph would probably work better for most applications

though you might have situations where being able to take some input as a numerical representation and get a corresponding function can be golfy ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Adám

Well, numeric selectors have the benefit of allowing you to e.g. map over them, so in APL you can get the "area" of an angle A (sin A×cos A) with ×/1 2○A or even 1 2×.○A

Razetime

hm, making that sounds complex,but it's pretty neat

Unrelated String

@Razetime isn't that only if you're writing out both of them

Razetime

05:53

yep

Unrelated String

...so that's the rationale for apl doing trig that way

because the kind of thing you might need one of those functions for you're just as likely to need multiple of them for

Adám

Try e.g. a trig table with ¯9 1 2 3∘.○.1×⍳31

Unrelated String

i feel like borrowing that seems like a great idea for stack languages

PyGamer0

what does ⊤ and ⊥ mean?

Wasif

@PyGamer0 not much

cos, sin tan and their inverse co. sometimes useful

But the hyperbolic ones not sp much

@Ausername wasn't that invented by Delfad0r

A username

06:04

Oh maybe

Idk

Bubbler

06:16

Any feedback?

A username

They all look good.

Bubbler

Thanks.

AviFS

Does anyone know how to 'escape' in V, the vim-golf lang?

@Bubbler I think the first one could benefit from an example of actually generating the first few terms

But the others look great!

PyGamer0

how to convert my language to use SBCS

Wasif

@PyGamer0 define a SBCS first

while parsing, only execute token if it is in SBCS

otherwise error or do nothing

do nothing is best

PyGamer0

06:31

ok

Wasif

when writing byte counter, count 1 byte for each token in SBCS, for other tokens count more bytes

PyGamer0

@Wasif hmmm ok then

i will add that later

Wasif

nice

be sure to choose beautiful glyphs

and of course include printable ASCII in your SBCS

lyxal

@Wasif the idea of a SBCS is that if you gave it raw bytes, it would still work. The fancy glyphs are just a convenient representation

Hence why it's only 256 chars

Wasif

yeah

I meant choosing such characters that are easy to remember

lyxal

06:39

@PyGamer0 github.com/Lyxal/Vyxal/blob/master/encoding.py

Here's how

Sandbox Posts

06:59

0

A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

Min/max unique characters code-challenge Write a program which maximises the amount of unique characters in its input while minimising the number of unique characters in its source. The program must halt. Functions for converting a character code to its character in any encoding is disallowed. Yo...

StackMeter

07:28

@PyGamer0 yeah, I don't think you need to know those

like, at all

as a math fanatic, they don't come up very often, if at all

lyxal

@wasif new profile picture?

PyGamer0

looks like it

StackMeter

def

@lyxal what if I have 257+ commands?

lyxal

@StackMeter digraphs

256 chars doesn't necessarily mean 256 commands max

you can have overloads too

wasif

@lyxal yeah

lyxal

07:34

epic

wasif

@StackMeter you can have them too

you need to count two byte per all if you need non diagraphs

@lyxal thx

StackMeter

eh, I'll take the 2 byter's

PyGamer0

is whitespace counted as SBCS

Bubbler

and many of the chars should have some form of "syntactic effect", which means they may be not quite "commands". Simple concatenation of flat commands can only get so far

PyGamer0

like should i add that in my codepage

wasif

07:36

@PyGamer0 yes

Bubbler

If you intend to use whitespace in the source code, it should definitely be in the codepage

wasif

you need to add whitespace in codepage

but don't set whitespace to any command

that will be irritating

Bubbler

Not having space in the SBCS means your code is not allowed to have spaces. Same goes for newlines

StackMeter

just make space and newline

PyGamer0

ok

StackMeter

07:37

do nothing

lyxal

Is δ (double vectorise) just outer product in 05AB1E?

Bubbler

Sounds like one of zipwith or outer product

wasif

bye for now

lyxal

@Bubbler turns out it's zipwith

Sandbox Posts

07:57

0

A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

The Great Betting Game code-golf game Your task is to create either a console "app" or a function which allows the user to bet on certain numbers or retract a bet. Bets Your program or function will prompt for a command after an action, and the bet is the most important, crucial to the operatio...

Unrelated String

depending on how your syntax works newline should probably do something
space doing nothing is conventional but (again depending on how your syntax works) you could consider making it more than a token separating nop--could be as simple as being the actual identity function which you can then apply your adverbs to, or maybe it could do whatever the hell it does in japt

i'm personally considering space being equivalent to jelly's µ

PyGamer0

08:14

no space does nothing; (except in strings where it acts as a ... space). Newline termintates comments.

Unrelated String

are you entirely sure you even want comments

2

they can be handy (if occasionally a bit lame) for source layout stuff but :/

i guess there's no real reason not to have a digraph for comments but i would recommend against spending an entire codepoint on them

lyxal

Comments are cool

I have a dedicated comment character

You totally should too

Razetime

i say if you're making a golfing language don't bother with comments

vyxal's main shtick is being readable and having normal language things

Bubbler

J, one of the 1st gen "golflangs", has a trigraph for line comment

Razetime

wouldn't recommend it for other langs

Bubbler

08:28

NB.

AviFS

Never noticed that was three charas

rak1507

apl uses ~~amogus~~ lamp, ⍝

lyxal

@AviFS "Charas"

That has a whole totally different meaning for undertale fans

@rak1507 sussy 😳😳😳😳🤣

Unrelated String

have some real fun and make your comment dodecagraph PLEASE DON'T

Razetime

@lyxal Adám Genocide route?!?!?!?!

PyGamer0

08:37

well; i am at a good stage for my lang.
here is an answer to https://codegolf.stackexchange.com/questions/228953/create-an-ascii-line-given-a-length

lyxal

@Razetime snanms ungertanil

rak1507

:58408214 that's a lot more bytes than ＼ :P

PyGamer0

ī;©(;®-⊢p `×p\`+ṭ-1), 20 chars (SBCS)

rak1507

is it meant to be a golfing lang?

PyGamer0

maybe

rak1507

08:39

not very short

PyGamer0

wow my answer beat julia

Razetime

they probably need to golf it more

Adám

@Razetime ?

Razetime

@Adám sans

lyxal

@Adám Sans from undertale, who you only fight if you do a genocide route

Also, dang, I just got out golfed in my own language. I went to do pygamer's challenge in Vyxal and got 10 bytes with 3 flags, only to see that hyper has 4 bytes with 2 flags and that a stone arachnid has 6 bytes with 1 flag. Amazing

Razetime

08:46

@lyxal boo explaining it

lyxal

@Razetime Adam doesn't seem like the kind of person who knows what undertale is

PyGamer0

well here is the explaination of the thing:

ī      # Input (STDIN) and push to stack
;      # Dup the top of the stack
©(     # Copy the top into registor and start while loop
  ;    # Dup the top of the stack
  ®    # Push the registor on the stack
  -    # Subtract
  ⊢    # Get the absolute value
  p `  # Push ' ' to the stack
  ×    # Multiply the top 2 elements on the stack
  p\`  # Push '\'
  +    # Add top 2 elements
  ṭ    # Pop and print top of stack
  -1   # Subtract from top of the stack
)      # End of while loop

Adám

@lyxal I think someone mentioned it before in connection with Sans, but I forgot already.

I'm not a very well-educated person when it comes to modern culture. The other kids made fun of me in high school, for not knowing about pop music etc.

PyGamer0

@UnrelatedString codegolf.stackexchange.com/a/230269/103854 <- i can use for explaining

A username

09:02

@lyxal I honestly had that exact answer, then saw hyper's.

StackMeter

how does one make nested bullet point lists when writing a question

A username

 - something
    - something else

I think

StackMeter

so you add a tab or four spaces

A username

Or possibly three.

Btw any feedback?

StackMeter

do KoTHs normally have walls of text

A username

09:11

wdym?

StackMeter

I'm writing my KoTH and I just realised the wall of text I put in

I'll send you the link once I finis

h

A username

Ok

Razetime

@lyxal let him do da important research

StackMeter

@Adám welcome to the club

Adám

I was only into classical music at the time.

Razetime

09:26

kparc writer absolutely destroys the imitation game

lyxal

@Razetime oof

A username

An yfinal feedback?

I was very surprised it didn't exist...

caird coinheringaahing

@UnrelatedString Hatred uses IGNORE THIS PLEASE as comment delimiters :P

Recursive Co.

Well his avatar does look like someone who ate too much butter

@Ausername no feedback, looks ready

StackMeter

@UnrelatedString just use #

A username

09:37

Ok

StackMeter

no-one has hashtag as anything but a comment, or a wall in 2D langs

caird coinheringaahing

Lots of languages use # to mean things other than a comment

New Posts

0

Q: What's missing (aka the vanilla set difference challenge)

Write a program which takes two arrays of positive integers as input. One of them (your choice which) will have one item missing compared to the other. Your program must figure out what is missing. Rules You can choose which array has one missing: You can take ordinary then missing or vice versa....

code-golf array-manipulation

A username

@StackMeter Javascript: Excuse me...

StackMeter

@Ausername no I don't get it

A username

09:43

JS uses # for private fields for some reason

Recursive Co.

it's proposed

but not finalized yet

StackMeter

did it

PyGamer0

10:01

CMC: Common array operators? (for esolangs)

A username

I've said it before and I'll say it again: tsh is a genius.

StackMeter

any feedback

lyxal

10:40

@PyGamer0 take a look at this and this and see what you think

Razetime

10:52

@StackMeter why are the weights random

is everyone's weight the same

also if you're making a python controller, feel free to host your base code on github @StackMeter

PyGamer0

11:12

@lyxal what is vectorised?

lyxal

@PyGamer0 that just means that the element is applied to every item if the given argument(s) are list(s)

wasif

Hi everyone

@PyGamer0 vectorise everything

A username

Hi

Recursive Co.

@Ausername Easy to figure out how it works. That the XOR of two equal numbers is zero

wasif

But not easy to think of that idea in once

A username

11:17

Yes,but ingenious to think of

Ninjad

Recursive Co.

@wasif Are you the same Wasif?

wasif

@RecursiveCo. yes

I am the same wasif

Recursive Co.

Wow, nice pfp!

PyGamer0

@wasif other than that

wasif

@RecursiveCo. thx

Had to search for a lot of time

lyxal

11:19

where is the picture from?

wasif

Detective conan

lyxal

nice

wasif

@PyGamer0 flatten, wrap (combine few elements in stack as a single list), unwrap (opposite of wrap)

Head/tail extract

Wait does Vyxal have unwrap?

A username

`Yes

÷

lyxal

^

wasif

11:23

Nice

Is it newly added

lyxal

(the division symbol, not the caret)

@wasif nope

been around since Keg

wasif

Will be helpful

Anush

hi all

lyxal

howdy!

Anush

trying to implement fractional knapsack in python is hurting my head

A username

11:32

So I've got a version of a program that works for even inputs, and a version that works for odd inputs. Time to merge them...

wasif

@Anush o/

@Ausername which program

A username

You'll see in a minute or two.

lyxal

inb4 vyxal answer that i ez golf \s ;p

StackMeter

@Razetime the weights are random but in the same range.

A username

It works weirdly because I'm expanding from the center

It's weird that a simplish challenge like that only has 4 (5 now) answers

lyxal

11:44

if it works, it works

that's all that matters

A username

Who cares that it will run out of memory for any testcase greater than 0.1.

wasif

Nice

You are still putting inhuman efforts in vyxal answers

I want to put some too

A username

Go ahead

wasif

Fork this query to get unsolved challenges in any language

Razetime

@StackMeter fair playing field would be nice for weights

StackMeter

12:12

ok I'll change it

Also message for JS fans

J J J
a a a
v v v
a a a
S S S
c c c
r r r
i i i
p p p
t t t
s s s
u u u
c c c
kkk
JavaScriptsuckskcustpircSavaJ
kkk
c c c
u u u
s s s
t t t
p p p
i i i
r r r
c c c
S S S
a a a
v v v
a a a
J J J

wasif

???

EliteDaMyth

A cancerous way of saying Javascript Sucks

wasif

Let's form this into a CGCC challegne

Given a text

EliteDaMyth

eh not interesting enough i would say

maybe a CMC

wasif

Output it in @StackMeter 's way

network connection sucks

@EliteDaMyth why?

EliteDaMyth

12:27

idk

maybe post it to the sandbox and see what others say

StackMeter

12:39

@wasif already done

Recursive Co.

@StackMeter "Programming Language Police Reform" to stop racial attacks against JavaScript would be appreciated.

PyGamer0

CMC: Implement bubble sort.

EliteDaMyth

would it be racial?

Recursive Co.

It's a joke

EliteDaMyth

i know

but we need to come up with a better word for it

@PyGamer0 codegolf.stackexchange.com/questions/92753/… related?

Anush

12:50

@PyGamer0 nooooooo

:)

user

> racial attacks against JavaScript

PyGamer0

@EliteDaMyth i dont think; i am telling to implement bubble sort

without any quirks / restrictions

user

CMM: I want to do this challenge again, but with 95% accuracy, Indonesian and English instead of Spanish and English, and any method instead of just regex. Would that still be a repost?

2

Razetime

the question is still open with a higher accuracy threshold

but what does "any method" mean

PyGamer0

@Razetime any form of detection?

user

12:58

Just making it a normal code golf challenge open to all languages instead of restricting it to regex

PyGamer0

other than regex

Recursive Co.

IMO no because I know the language, and Indonesian words are quite predictable. Prefix ke- as an example, and also since a lot of words end with u, it would be quite interesting.

Razetime

so make a function or anything

that'd be alright

Recursive Co.

Also note -an or -in (makanan)

user

:(

Razetime

12:58

our indonesian expressjs enjoyer has spoken

Anush

@user no one has done it with 90% accuracy yet it seems

Razetime

but you can select indonesian words with none of those attributes and it might work

needs a ton of segregation and files tbh

Anush

I would like to see answers!

Recursive Co.

@Razetime Not an enjoyer because I'm from there

I mean I enjoy the language but it's kind of my mother tongue...

user

Honestly, the only reason I wanted to write that challenge is so that I could name it something from one of the IGS posts

Recursive Co.

12:59

Oh lol

user

@RecursiveCo. knowyourmeme.com/memes/average-fan-vs-average-enjoyer

@Anush Write some yourself :P

Anush

@user I am still fighting fractional knapsack! :)

Recursive Co.

and btw I no longer use expressjs

only http.createServer

user

@RecursiveCo. Why not? I remember it being pretty nice

Recursive Co.

Just personal taste, I guess

Ian H.

13:06

Are we allowed to ask for feedback on sandboxed challenges here?

Recursive Co.

Yes, it is encouraged to do so

user

Yes, it's encouraged

Recursive Co.

Let's see it!

Ian H.

Awesome! codegolf.meta.stackexchange.com/a/23594/72738

Razetime

@PyGamer0 true bubble sort in stax

Recursive Co.

13:07

> You haven't voted on questions in a while; questions need votes too!

Razetime

@IanH. how accurate should the output be

rounded to nearest .5 hour ?

Recursive Co.

Nice! Just one question, could we input day, hour and do we need the minutes/seconds?

Razetime

ah yeah right month and year are superfluous since we're only counting till weekend

you can remove those from the input format

Ian H.

@Razetime Mhh, that's a good question, since representing hours as decimals can get messy :p I'd say rounded to the nearest quarter of an hour, what do you think?

Razetime

ok, nearest quarter sounds fine

Ian H.

13:10

@Razetime I don't think they are superfluous, since they indicate which day of the week it is, right?

Razetime

@IanH. you can either remove month and year, or you can remove the name of the day before them

Ian H.

The name of the day in the test cases was just an example, resulting from JS automatically formatting it that way; input can be received in any reasonable format for date and time

Razetime

eitherway the most likely format people would want is day number(indexed from sunday or monday) and time during the day

Recursive Co.

Razetime's suggestion sounds reasonable

Would also like some feedback on this

Ian H.

Sounds reasonable, yeah

I'll check it in a second, just gonna rewrite my post then rq

Recursive Co.

13:14

It's a long one, good luck ;)

EliteDaMyth

@RecursiveCo. if we choose a function, can we take the bets as different arguments

instead of a string in the format bet n n

user

@DLosc Also How can I keep monsters out of my nether regions?

Recursive Co.

so like a(4, 9) for a range if a is the function?

EliteDaMyth

yes

Ian H.

Quick question, do you think day number should be indexed from Sun or Mon?

Hello, World!

13:16

0

A: "Hello, World!"

BrainCrash, 14 bytes. Note that this is NOT Braincrash; this is also a Brainfuck-variant, with these expansions: The first 13 cells are initially Hello, world!. Automatically implicit output. Four logical operators. Here is the program: >>>>>>^<<<<<<< What it does Move to space. ^ is mem[ptr+...

EliteDaMyth

or a(4) if only 1 number instead of range

Recursive Co.

Sorry, not sure I understand what the arguments are. Do you mean rest parameters?

So app([5,9],'retire',[4]) might be better=

EliteDaMyth

i was thinking something like app(5,9,'retire',4)

and change the 9 to 0 if there is no range

Recursive Co.

It looks like it would actually make things harder

EliteDaMyth

mmm

yea

probably

Recursive Co.

13:19

My post is still very new, so feedback is expected progressively.

I'll wait 4 days or something

EliteDaMyth

also, can we use "random" number through the (new Date%9)+1

or does it have to be Math.random()

Recursive Co.

I think "random" follows the consensus on meta

user

What in the world

StackMeter

@user what's CMM

Recursive Co.

Chat mini meta

EliteDaMyth

13:25

36

Q: What are our specific abbreviations and terms?

Newcomers to codegolf.SE are often compelled to ask what many of our abbreviations and terms mean. Let us list them here so this information always will be easily available. Return to FAQ index

discussion support faq new-users chat

Razetime

@user whats this

just a dk clone?

user

idk what dk is

Oh, donkey kong? Yeah

It was an April Fools thing

StackMeter

13:49

oh

I thought I could gain rep and badges from it

I'm sad now

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