The Nineteenth Byte

hyper-neutrino

00:00

Though, since they disabled the badges for mods anyway, I guess that suggests it's not a big deal to give myself helpful flags :P

caird coinheringaahing

Can you not mark your own flags helpful?

hyper-neutrino

i can

but that gives me a ton of free helpful flags to my count

and I'm mostly using these flags to mark posts for me to do changes to later, rather than actually to indicate a problem to another mod or something

caird coinheringaahing

I think that so long as they are helpful flags (i.e. you'd mark them helpful if I flagged them as such), then its fine

hyper-neutrino

the thing is some of them just say "[status-declined]" xD but yeah I think ^ makes sense

New Posts

0

Q: Simplify K combinatory logic expression

Background Combinatory logic is a system where a term is written using a finite set of combinators and function application between terms, and reduction rules are defined for each combinator. The well-known S and K combinators have the following reduction rules: $$ \begin{aligned} S\;x\;y\;z & \o...

user

00:05

@hyper-neutrino How'd you do it so fast?

caird coinheringaahing

It took me a few hours to do my notes, then another few to raise the flags. From what hyper said, they just went through the list and raised a flag on each, which would be much quicker

Wezl

Jun 1 at 22:18, by hyper-neutrino

@cairdcoinheringaahing I have no life

user

Both of those make it make sense :P

hyper-neutrino

@user keep in mind that unlike you guys flagging, I don't have to really justify my flag

i expect y'all's flags to include an explanation, even if just "look at the answer", as to why your tag decision is correct, but i am the one who looked through the context to determine the right tag so future me can trust flags raised by myself without explanation

caird coinheringaahing

If I wanted to, I could probably raise a bunch of them as [status-whatever] and HN would trust me, but that feels cheap and I know I can raise actually useful flags :p

Mainly because flags are permanently recorded, and it helps provide an actual justification if/when I go back over my flags, or a mod decided to audit some

hyper-neutrino

00:09

a lot of posts i considered in terms of "do i want to raise these to the community or push it up to the team" lol, so instead of justifying the flag type based on the existing answers/comments/other discussions i just think "oh i want team to see this and decide what to do so i'll just review"

@cairdcoinheringaahing TBH it would've been better for me to include some justification on mine too, just in case another mod wants to know why i picked a tag or it should be audited

but then again, they can contact me personally at any time anyway :P

there is one problem with using flags as a marker

i didn't realize we had flags on main because i got too used to seeing the blue thing there and just subconsciously ignored it

granted the flags are only half an hour old but still :P

caird coinheringaahing

Those should probably be handled :P

hyper-neutrino

they're just invalid answer flags, i'll get to that in a bit :p

pppery

Remember, of course, that there was once a time when flags took months to be handled

Bubbler

Yeah, we're living in a good time now

caird coinheringaahing

And when we had 100+ pending flags

Bubbler

00:18

except in real life

5

pppery

... thus, there's no need to rush to handle flags in minutes

caird coinheringaahing

No, but so long as they're handled correctly, there's no reason to not handle them quickly

pppery

especially since (if you are talking about flags I raised), I found posts to flag by using SEDE to search for old "this answer is invalid" comments, so the underlying problems are years old

hyper-neutrino

oh, that's how you find so many invalid answers, lol

pppery

yes

I have a few other techniques, but that's what I've been doing most recently

Redwolf Programs

00:43

Idea: Have the Guild of Reviewers bot detect comments formatted similarly to "Feedback please" under sandbox posts and post them in the room

This also lets new users request feedback without being able to talk in chat

And because it's tied to comments, abusing it can be caught by the same measures that prevent spamming comments

caird coinheringaahing

That's a good idea. We can add a notice to the Sandbox question once implemented

Redwolf Programs

I'm working on a section right now which discusses suggesting and receiving feedback, which is what gave me the idea :p

1. Finish chat bot library
2. Update NP/SP
3. Build guild bot

(^ My to-do list)

lyxal

Can you add new Elo method to that list?

Redwolf Programs

I want to, but until I get my new laptop that's not going to be possible :/

Same with Hunter-Gatherer

lyxal

Wanna see something nostalgic?

Redwolf Programs

00:57

Added section to the sandbox post on giving and received feedback, feel free to make any edits y'all think would be appropriate.

user

@lyxal Stale memes?

lyxal

@user even better

OldSandboxPosts

Sandbox posts last active a week ago: Demonstrate some advanced abstract algebra

lyxal

caird coinheringaahing

@OldSandboxPosts I feel called out

user

01:00

Joke's on you, I never played pinball

@cairdcoinheringaahing It's your bot, tell it to shut up :P

caird coinheringaahing

@OldSandboxPosts Shut up, you're making me feel bad :P

lyxal

@lyxal if you don't know what this is, then you've never lived

user

~~I think, therefore I am~~ I don't know what this is, therefore I am not *disappears*

@lyxal What is it, if not pinball?

Redwolf Programs

It's a windows pinball game I think

user

Oh ok

lyxal

01:05

@RedwolfPrograms correct

caird coinheringaahing

I very much dislike the fact that clicking anywhere outside the flag pop-up closes the popup :/

Sandbox Posts

0

A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

Make 2048 Your challenge is to code a version of the game 2048. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2048_(video_game) The wiki page has more information on the game mechanics than I can put here. The game must take input from the arrow keys, each turn, and must output in a grid as such: NNNN NNNN NNNN ...

Wezl

time to spend another hour learning how to scrape youtube so I can watch lyxal's video without messing up my highly tuned yt recommendations (that I never actually use) because the invidious instance I use is down wow someone cares enough to read my complaints :/

user

@cairdcoinheringaahing I very much dislike ~~the fact that c~~ licking anywhere ~~outside the flag pop-up closes the popup :/~~

@Wezl Why not use incognito?

caird coinheringaahing

@Wezl incognito mode?

user

01:07

Hi @Jeremy, welcome to TNB!

Redwolf Programs

I very much ~~dis~~ like ~~the fact that c~~ licking ~~outside the flag~~ pop up ~~close~~ s ~~the popup~~

user

You very much like licking s? Edit: Yeah, me too, leaves a bitter flavor in your mouth

Wezl

@user @cairdcoinheringaahing because youtube is slow and .... other reasons

Redwolf Programs

> I very much like licking pop ups

user

@Wezl If you don't mind my asking, is it a school-controlled Chromebook?

Wezl

01:09

lickings ~= whippings :P

caird coinheringaahing

@user Jeremy hangs out here from time to time, there's no need to ping them :)

Wezl

@RedwolfPrograms my cat detector beeped, but then edits :/

user

@cairdcoinheringaahing Oh ok, I thought they were a new CGCC user

@cairdcoinheringaahing I can sense a speed of lobsters-y phrase here that'll net someone a lot of stars, but I can't find it :P

Redwolf Programs

The two instances of pop up let you spell something a bit...less tasty?

Wezl

@cairdcoinheringaahing same for the bounty pop-up :/

user

01:12

I haven't tasted either, so I can't say which is tastier :P

caird coinheringaahing

@Wezl Well, I flag a lot more than I bounty :P

Wezl

@RedwolfPrograms >:|

user

@RedwolfPrograms I'm sure pups are tastier than popups, though, especially dog and (red) wolf pups >:)

caird coinheringaahing

Plus, if I flag something wrong, I just get a declined flag. If I bounty something wrong, I lose rep, so I triple check my bounties :P

pppery

You have 37K rep. Losing rep won't have any adverse affects other than a number going down, in the same way as getting a declined flag won't have any adverse affects other than a number going up.

hyper-neutrino

01:15

if you do make some serious issue with bountying i think i'm authorized to cancel it for you lol. idk the policy on that

Redwolf Programs

Just don't start another one then forget to award that one too ;p

caird coinheringaahing

@pppery Yeah, I know. But it's a hassle if I say I'm awarding 200 rep, and I misclick to start either 500 or 100

hyper-neutrino

oh if you forget to award and it expires then rip

caird coinheringaahing

Besides, I like the number going up rather than down :P

hyper-neutrino

i asked, those refunds only happen in edge cases, if you forget then unfortunately you just lose the rep

caird coinheringaahing

01:18

That only happens if there's no answers

Otherwise, half of it gets auto-awarded to (I think) the top voted answer

Speaking of me giving out bounties: for anyone who wants rep, I literally want to give these bounties away

hyper-neutrino

oh maybe. i forget what happened last time someone forgot a bounty

lyxal

@user ~~I very much di~~ s ~~like~~ t ~~he f~~ a ~~ct that clicking anywhe~~ r ~~e outside the flag~~ p ~~opup c~~ l o s ~~es the popup :/~~

caird coinheringaahing

@hyper-neutrino status-completed. I now have 19 pending flags on Meta :P

Only 13 questions (by my searching) are applicable to help-center, but that's a lot more than a decent number of meta tags

hyper-neutrino

okay, thanks!

i wonder how many tag badges this is going to award

caird coinheringaahing

If they haven't been awarded by now, none. Tags need 100 questions to have a badge, and the closest is bug at 77

hyper-neutrino

01:28

right, but tagging more things with status-completed might increase some people's score enough to get it

highly doubt though

caird coinheringaahing

status-declined has 23, so unless you have 77 status-declined tags lined up, I doubt any badges will be awarded

@hyper-neutrino No one has 20 answers in it

You'd have to tag 8 questions that Doorknob has answered for him to get it

hyper-neutrino

ah. and i don't think i have that many things to complete

most things from this round are declined

i only have 48 new posts to decline

caird coinheringaahing

> only

hyper-neutrino

well compared to the needed 77 :P

which questions will need rebumping? i will probably do the edits later tonight

caird coinheringaahing

02:09

@hyper-neutrino Sandbox, bounties, Red LotM, this and this

The LotM nominations might be worth rebumping again

hyper-neutrino

okay, thanks

Redwolf Programs

03:34

How do sheep play violins...Duolingo won't tell me

lyxal

04:00

@RedwolfPrograms This is an old joke. The joke is that a sheep in a symphony orchestra will crowd the stage with its neighbors and clop around and do herding tricks. It is a joke because of its implausibility.

@RedwolfPrograms alternatively, They have their violin lessons from a cello teacher.

Here's another fun joke: Why do you never see a bull in a karate movie?

-Because every time he tries to kick, the horse would knock him out.

Redwolf Programs

GPT? :p

lyxal

;p

because that's how addition works

Redwolf Programs

I'd heard that GPT-3 was really good at addition but...I guess I heard wrong lol

lyxal

> Note that a composite number can be verified in the same way as a prime number. An integer greater than one is always a prime number.

^ GPT-3 when talking about number theory

After performing testing, Ada and Babbage are not capable of addition, while Curie and Davinci are

CMJQ: Why did the boy throw the clock out the window?

(CMJQ here means "Chat Mini Joke Question")

Redwolf Programs

@lyxal Why?

lyxal

04:11

Because it was two ticks to twelve.

Redwolf Programs

I'm overthinking that (lack-of-a-)joke so much

Unrelated String

maybe my brain is a bit fried from golfing python but i cannot tell what the joke is at all

lyxal

the fact y'all are trying to make sense of an AI generated joke is hilarious

Unrelated String

i can see how that would get generated

because it sounds like it should be a pun of some sort

but it's just not

lyxal

it made both the question and punchline from "Why did the chicken cross the road?"

Unrelated String

04:15

i would be shocked if it didn't

Redwolf Programs

Can someone enter the sandbox, post a message, edit it twice, then click leave?

Wasif

hello everyone

lyxal

This is what I'm getting:

$ php -r '$sandbox = new Sandbox();$sandbox->post("hello");echo $sandbox->getLastEdited();' ERROR: Uncaught exception 'Exception' with message 'Sandbox::getLastEdited() cannot be called on

Redwolf Programs

If possible, make the first edit ping me, and the second edit a reply to someone else's message

Actually I'll need to be doing lots of testing, so I'm just going to use a sock for this

Redwolf Programs

04:45

Unfortunately I can't reverse engineer things like flagging :/

lyxal

@RedwolfPrograms you can't reverse engineer me either

Sandbox Posts

0

A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

Smallest number of actions to change reputation by [x] points 8: Upvote + downvote 75: Bounty + upvote + accepted answer Draft

Redwolf Programs

^ Very rough drafy, ignore

Too tired to actually write a spec

Wasif

can we post incomplete drafts in Sandbox?

hyper-neutrino

I see no reason to disallow it.

Wasif

04:57

the challenge is quite good

hyper-neutrino

Also probably can be considered a dupe.

lyxal

I've posted unfinished drafts before

hyper-neutrino

Although, depending on the spec, it might be easier (i.e. different)

lyxal

Potentially a dupe of this. Stoopid. — lyxal 2 mins ago

hyper-neutrino

@lyxal yes that's why I thought it might be a dupe :P

Redwolf Programs

04:58

It's a superset of the related challenge though

hyper-neutrino

although given that it was my challenge, the concept seemed vaguely familiar

Redwolf Programs

Not sure if it's close enough to be a dupe

lyxal

@RedwolfPrograms maybe you are a superset of the related challenge though

hyper-neutrino

thing is that one only requires downward rep change

and disallows you from going below 1 rep

and you need to consider privilege levels

Wasif

Invitation - let's downvote HN to the death!!

Redwolf Programs

04:59

This one's much more general

hyper-neutrino

if this one is just "change rep by this amount given these operations with no restraints" then it should be different enough

@Wasif encouraging voting fraud, even if humorously, is strongly discouraged

Wasif

@hyper-neutrino y'know the fraud is never gonna happen....

A username

@Wasif Yes it is!

hyper-neutrino

@Wasif i mean, yeah. i've been flagged for it before so i just encourage the same idea. i didn't 11 your message because i don't really care though, lol.

Wasif

@Ausername will you downvote?

A username

05:02

No, just joking

lyxal

@Ausername Wouldn't that be mod abuse though?

Wasif

@Ausername You are not joking, you are AUsername

lyxal

@Wasif ah, but they never made the claim

@Wasif they claimed that JoKing would do the downvoting

Wasif

lol

A username

That joke is so old.

lyxal

05:03

@Ausername you just don't have a sense of humour

A username

And JoKing's tired of this.

lyxal

hyper-neutrino

the joke is quite old though. in the old days you'd probably get 11'd for how much you make the joke (or at least 12'd), but times have changed, and I just don't care much.

Wasif

Related Vyxal Program

lyxal

@Ausername how do you know?

Wasif

05:05

necessary for the joke

lyxal

@hyper-neutrino hey did you 11 my userscripts?

hyper-neutrino

?

Redwolf Programs

Not sure what events 7 (debug message), 11 (file added), 12 (moderator flag), 13 (user settings changed), 14 (global notification), or 21 (time break) do :/

lyxal

Redwolf Programs

And 9, 12, 29, and 30 require stuff that's not allowed for testing

lyxal

05:07

@lyxal as you can see, it's reporting that it's 11

Wasif

Shouldn't 11 report moderator flag?

why 12?

hyper-neutrino

ಠ_ಠ

lyxal

@hyper-neutrino is that at my joke or at Wasif's joke

hyper-neutrino

yours

lyxal

Because I really hope it's at mine

@hyper-neutrino wonderful

hyper-neutrino

05:08

12 is moderator flag???

come on... we were so close to greatness

Redwolf Programs

I guess I just need to set up a socket to log things for a testing account in an active room, and store anything with an event type in one of those unknown categories. Problem is, some are rare or situational enough I doubt they'd ever happen, and some are probably user triggered (like mod flag maybe?)

hyper-neutrino

I'd be willing to help you catch the 12 event. You won't be able to log what that looks like (unless you get elected on some site o.O)

might take a while though. mod flags aren't extremely common (neither are normal flags, really, fortunately)

Redwolf Programs

Oh, is that like when a mod gets notified about a mod flag?

hyper-neutrino

presumably

idk if outgoing flag would trigger an event

Wasif

what is outgoing flag?

hyper-neutrino

05:12

a flag that is outgoing

like one that you raise, not one that you are getting a chat event for

Wasif

I see

lyxal

@hyper-neutrino very helpful

hyper-neutrino

like always

Redwolf Programs

Presumable global notification has to do with events in some way, maybe?

Not sure

I'll have to find an upcoming event in some random room to register for

hyper-neutrino

soonest event is the hinduism one "Discussion on Upanishads" tmr

Redwolf Programs

05:15

Well I've registered for an event on Hinduism on thursday at 11:30 lol

hyper-neutrino

lol

Wasif

Do we must have to participate if we register for event?

hyper-neutrino

no you can just not show up (like a good amount of the people for this BMG)

Wasif

oh

Luckily yesterday I got in time

Redwolf Programs

Anyway that's probably enough testing for tonight, I probably don't want to make flagging and flag handling something automatable with my library anyway

hyper-neutrino

05:18

well you might want to know what received flags look like

but yeah automating raising flags is a pretty bad idea (and also probably isn't a chat event anyway)

Redwolf Programs

Once I have the more important parts of the library working, I can use that to make a bot to log unknown events. Within 48h or so I'd expect to get a flag. Mod flags and user suspensions or merges are probably so unlikely to need to be handled that I can get away with ignoring them altogether.

See y'all tomorrow o/

lyxal

o/

Wasif

@RedwolfPrograms bye

o/

Jo King

@Ausername ~70% of the time i lurk here i see that joke

i mean, just try searching for my username, and you see it all

A username

05:51

@lyxal See?

lyxal

@Ausername JoKing never stated their opinions on the joke

hence, your argument is still currently invalid

A username

Also GEORGE is broken

They added embedding protection

lyxal

@Ausername I'll let them know

@Ausername do you mean the webring or the ads?

A username

Webring

lyxal

@Ausername no, the web ring is working

check the other sites

A username

05:58

Hmm that's weird, I'm getting "To protect your security, george.gh0.pw will not allow Firefox to display the page if another site has embedded it. To see this page, you need to open it in a new window."

lyxal

Sounds like a firefox problem

A username

Idk

lyxal

does it show on razetime's site?

A username

Yes, just not on yours :p

lyxal

odd.

it's showing on mine

A username

06:01

Oh well

lyxal

you do know I don't control GEORGE right?

and you never told me if you have discord

hyper-neutrino

06:16

bleh. i should've left handling the meta edit backlog til tomorrow. now i'm up at 2 on a work night again. :(

StackMeter

07:29

I see the site is back for you all

StackMeter

07:59

has the ticker feed shown up yrt

Adám

09:03

Time-travel releases using GitHub:

rak1507

lol

Bubbler

> v16 is released in 16 seconds

Adám

That's a coincidence. I was pressing F5, watching the number get smaller and smaller. Eventually, it hit "now".

StackMeter

09:25

nice

Wasif

hello everyone

StackMeter

hello @Wasif

Wasif

@Adám v16 of what

@StackMeter hi

Can someone explain me how the language convey works?

StackMeter

I posted a new challenge, here

Wasif

I am unable to learn it from its documentation

Adám

09:28

@Wasif github.com/abrudz/Kbd

Wasif

@Adám oo nice

StackMeter

nice

Jo King

@Wasif think of each instruction as a function that has a specific amount of inputs/outputs

and they are all puzzle pieces that have to fit together

Wasif

@StackMeter how much progress has been made into Anti-Alpha

StackMeter

I actually started writing the interpreter, so some decent headway has been made

Wasif

09:34

did you intended it to be an APL derivative?

Will you make it open Source?

StackMeter

it will be open source, and I'm adding some more builtins to make it worthwhile

Wasif

Can you share its source code before development?

StackMeter

ok

I have

the github is open source

Wasif

in which github repo we can see it?

I'm very interested in trying it

Jo King

@Wasif which part is confusing you?

Wasif

09:40

@JoKing its main program structure

2D languages are kinda new topic for me

And I want to begin learning one

Do you have recommendations which will be easier to start with

Jo King

think of it as a series of conveyor belts delivering numbers/characters around

Wasif

What exactly is a conveyor belt? The instruction pointer's moving chain?

Jo King

@Wasif ><> or Befunge-93 are the usual starter languages

A username

I made the mistake of starting with Convey

Wasif

@Ausername but you have solved few big challenges with it

@xash and your answers inspired me to begin with

Jo King

09:43

yeah, convey is like the Haskell of 2d languages

StackMeter

wdym? Haskell isn't bad

Wasif

@StackMeter Haskell is very hard

especially for newbies to programming

like me

A username

And for some reason popular

Jo King

most people don't start with it until they have a solid foundation, otherwise they get a bit lost

Bubbler

I thought the Haskell analogy meant "a new paradigm"

Jo King

09:45

that too

StackMeter

oh o

Jo King

i very much like both Haskell and convey

A username

Good idea, but a pain to use. Fun tho

Wasif

whenever you google if learning a language is hard or easy, it always says that language is very right choice for beginners, regardless what the language is

Jo King

convey is basically Factorio transport belts, the language

A username

09:47

Not Jelly

I'm going to learn it at some point

Wasif

I'm currently trying to digest APL
And succeeding
If i can learn it I would be able to digest J and Jelly too

A username

But for now I'm sticking with Vyxal

Wasif

@Ausername go on

Bubbler

Stack-based golflangs are for cowards :P

Wasif

But I have to admit Python, Vyxal and 05AB1E are the easiest languages in world

Bubbler

09:49

@Wasif You're following exactly what I frequently advertise: APL, then J, then Jelly :P

Wasif

They take absolutely no big effort to get used to them

@Bubbler I respectfully disagree :P

A username

I started with HTML/CSS/Javascript, then tried PHP when I was experimenting with webservers. Had a look at Ruby, figured out Node.js, then messed around with Electron for a while. At some point I tried Java, but gave up. In all that time, I never tried Python, but with all that brackgrounf I found it very easy to learn. Javascript's still my first language.

Wasif

@Ausername what is Electron?

(Not talking about chemistry)

A username

Javascript framework that lets you make apps

Wasif

@Ausername I see

Bubbler

09:53

Electron is kind of an app building framework in JS

ninjad

A username

Its pretty cool, and I made a horrible text editor thing with it

Bugs galore

Wasif

nice

when did you make that

A username

A few months ago.

Bubbler

-1 for not using monospace font

A username

The textarea uses monospace

Bubbler

09:55

I demand monospace for everything :P

A username

@Bubbler No

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