The Nineteenth Byte

caird coinheringaahing

21:00

Well worth a read, both the first and second ones

Why did our primary chatroom get nuked?

hyper-neutrino

i suppose there isn't much worth reading through in the room itself?

StackMeter

@cairdcoinheringaahing perma-banned

caird coinheringaahing

Not unless you're a mod, I can't see much of the history

> @[REDACTED] and @[REDACTED], you are no longer welcome in Stack Exchange chat.

StackMeter

they got BANNED??

caird coinheringaahing

From the nuked room. Names redacted because I don't need to bring that up for them. 10k+ users are welcome to see for themselves

@StackMeter I think so

This is on the starboard there:

> Threats of death or violence, whether towards other SE users or public figures such as politicians, are not appropriate here.

StackMeter

21:03

sorry to use caps, but HOW DO YOU GET BANNED FROM THE CHAT PERMANENTLY, AND AS A HIGH-REP USER? SHOULDN'T THEY KNOW BETTER?

Redwolf Programs

Reputation is about your answers and your questions, not your political opinions or behavior in chat.

StackMeter

ok

caird coinheringaahing

It's all detailed in the meta discussions (at least, all that should be shared). I won't bother rehashing it here

StackMeter

but why would they do that?

@cairdcoinheringaahing oh ok

thanks

caird coinheringaahing

@cairdcoinheringaahing Correction: "there were 37000+ users inside it" from here

StackMeter

21:06

This is why TNB will always be home

we may not be much, but at least we treat people with rrespect and dignity

caird coinheringaahing

A good metric of how "controversial" a chat room is is how many times it's been placed in timeout. Its happened 4 times in the 10+ years for TNB, which is pretty good going

rak1507

what were the 4 reasons for tnb

StackMeter

@cairdcoinheringaahing only 4

not bad

caird coinheringaahing

@rak1507 chat.stackexchange.com/…

StackMeter

oh okay, that's actually pretty good for an active room

hyper-neutrino

21:16

We have a decent amount of trash but not a high amount of timeouts. That suggests to me that this room likes to have fun but is good with keeping things chill when requested of them, which is pretty accurate I'd say.

StackMeter

accurate

The people here are actually decent

this is why having 10-20 dedicated users is good

hyper-neutrino

I am quite happy with the state of our current community (always will miss the old users and the activity, but I've mentioned that in excess); you guys are a comparably respectful and nice group of people and moderating here doesn't feel like as much of a chore as it seems like it is on some other sites (from talking with people in TL) :P

well, doesn't feel like a chore until there are 150 outstanding feature requests / bugs that have not been tagged appropriately

caird coinheringaahing

Plus we get just enough spam to keep you on your toes :P

@hyper-neutrino I'm doing my part to remove things from that list :P

hyper-neutrino

@cairdcoinheringaahing when I have some time I will go sort them into a few categories and figure out what to do with them :p

wonder how team's gonna feel when I pop into TL and ask if anyone can schedule some time to sort out 50 meta posts :D (/s, I don't intend to contact team for things unless I absolutely cannot deal with it with my tools)

StackMeter

@hyper-neutrino make me mod

then I can sort out 1-3% of them

Redwolf Programs

21:45

Sure, just nominate yourself at the next election :p

That should only be maybe five years from now

StackMeter

/k

well, I'm posting my chall now

last chance for feedback

Redwolf Programs

This is the most british thing I've seen in a while

@StackMeter A link to the sandbox post would be nice, so we don't have to go hunt it down to give you feedback

StackMeter

Already linked it above, but here it is again

Wezl

@RedwolfPrograms there should be a rickroll tax

hmmm... for the rickrollers or the rickrolled?

next time I rickroll you I'm demanding payment

StackMeter

@Wezl rickrolled

Redwolf Programs

21:53

@StackMeter No need to specify random inputs. Answers are required to do the task, they can't hardcode the outputs.

I'd definitely add more test cases.

caird coinheringaahing

@hyper-neutrino I was gonna do the same thing over a weekend at some point :P

StackMeter

@RedwolfPrograms I know, but the output format seemed weird so I chose some test-cases

ok

I'll add those in

caird coinheringaahing

@RedwolfPrograms What's amazing is that the Jaffa cake case mentioned it in basically set legal precedent for the difference between cake and biscuit. Because that was necessary

Redwolf Programs

No wonder we won the revolutionary war, y'all must have been too busy arguing about cakes/biscuits/cookies :p

Sandbox Posts

0

A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

I'm Lazy: Close my Parens stringcode-golfparsing Picolisp has a feature called "super parentheses": Brackets ('[' and ']') can be used as super parentheses. A closing bracket will match the innermost opening bracket, or all currently open parentheses. src Taking a string containing only the cha...

Wezl

21:57

lol it posted ^ before the page had even loaded after clicking

DJMcMayhem

@SandboxPosts Please somebody answer that in brain-flak

caird coinheringaahing

@SandboxPosts @DJMcMayhem I'll offer +500 for a brainflak answer

DJMcMayhem

for a brainflak answer or the shortest?

Wezl

@cairdcoinheringaahing hey, I was about to bounty it

DJMcMayhem

Because I'm confident I could do that in bflak, but I guarantee WW would outgolf me if he tried to

caird coinheringaahing

21:59

I'd probably start it at the first brainflak answer, then award it to the shortest after a week

hyper-neutrino

the time of the next mod election is impossible to predict :p it's been biannual so far (2016, 2018, 2020) but it entirely depends on the needs of the community

there's neither a required fixed schedule nor a required number of mods, it's all variable

DJMcMayhem

False. It's actually required that there are exactly 4. If another election were to happen, there would be a battle royal until only 4 moderators survive.

caird coinheringaahing

My prediction (barring anything crazy) will be mid/end of 2022, probably because either: 1) A mod steps down (I have a guess who it would be), and/or 2) the site gets active enough to require 5

We have had 5 mods before, back when DJ and Mego had diamonds

user

Let's hope it's 2

caird coinheringaahing

Yeah, 2 is the "best case" of the two

hyper-neutrino

22:09

@DJMcMayhem Oh, so how come none of you five died during 2018-2020? (wait...)

The site would have to get a lot more activity to need 5... our average flag handling time this month is 42 minutes

user

You don't need people to die during a battle royal, the losers just merge into one entity

caird coinheringaahing

Is this the hivemind origin story?

StackMeter

@RedwolfPrograms done - picked some with bigger numbers to test the entries.

user

@cairdcoinheringaahing idk if it's canon, we really need to publish a verified book

hyper-neutrino

You know how the avatar (from ATLA) is just a spirit passing between hosts and they can call on the wisdom of avatars before them?

caird coinheringaahing

22:12

No, but continue :P

StackMeter

@hyper-neutrino I'm somehow invested

user

The 100 had something similar to this (terrible show, do not watch)

@hyper-neutrino Don't leave us hanging

hyper-neutrino

shh i'm typing

well the avatar is basically a spirit (it's the "good" spirit out of the two good/bad spirits) that passes between hosts, and the host, known as the "Avatar", is responsible for maintaining balance. They are exclusively able to use all four elements

(some people can use one element out of fire, water, earth, air, but the Avatar is supposed to master all four) and can enter the Avatar state to basically temporarily fuse with the spirit to be more powerful (though dying like this will kill the spirit itself).

Since it's a spirit that doesn't die when the host does (assuming they were in a normal state), it passes on to another person when the current Avatar dies, and so each Avatar can talk to their previous hosts for wisdom (notable exceptions exist but that's a huge spoiler).

So a part of each avatar lives in each of the next. Now extend that to moderators - we moderate to resolve what the regular community cannot (to "maintain balance"), and we can talk to other/previous/older/more experienced/whatever moderators (like in TL, or otherwise, ~~or through seances~~) for wisdom.

DJMcMayhem

Or just through me posting bad ideas in TNB :P

New Posts

0

Q: Prime Factorization - but on the exponents too

Though there is a prime factorization challenge and it's here, this, I feel, will be a bit more interesting than that one. To understand this, let's have an example; I will use 5,184 for this. \$5184 = 2^6 \times 3^4\$. However, for this challenge, such a factorization is insufficient - the reaso...

StackMeter

22:17

it's live

user

That was wonderfully fast

caird coinheringaahing

@hyper-neutrino TBH I'm surprised that it's still that low. Flagging speed typically decreases as mods spend more time in the role

hyper-neutrino

@cairdcoinheringaahing I have no life

5

user

@hyper-neutrino I don't understand it, but I support control of all the elements 100%

This will do wonders for physics

Wezl

lol

flawr

22:19

@StackMeter that's a fun idea for a challenge:)

you know, I was about to go to bed...

caird coinheringaahing

The golf is calling you, you must answer :P

hyper-neutrino

May 28 at 16:57, by caird coinheringaahing

@hyper-neutrino The diamond does that in fewer bytes :P

relevant :p

caird coinheringaahing

How to get stars, a hyper-neutrino guide: Say that you don't have a life, sit back and wait :P

user

*How to get stars: Duel 4 other moderators to get the diamond, say you don't have a life, sit back and wait

hyper-neutrino

Hey, people get stars all the time for bullying me (exhibit A above) so why not do it myself and steal the profits? :D

user

22:29

I guess that's one way to look at it :P

yesterday, by user

@hyper-neutrino I just want to let you know that if you ever need to talk to someone about what seem like self-esteem issues, you can contact my therapist.

@hyper-neutrino ^ btw

hyper-neutrino

your therapist seems like a very kind person

Wezl

@hyper-neutrino "profits"

@hyper-neutrino are they the one who never gives up on your self-esteem?

user

@hyper-neutrino Yes, he makes himself available to everyone around the world and is there even when you don't expect him

hyper-neutrino

lol

user

I'm very happy you clicked on it, though, gotta love link shorteners

Redwolf Programs

22:33

If we have a 2022 mod election, I'll run :p

user

Aren't you tired running from Texans already? :P

Wezl

@RedwolfPrograms yeah I'll run away too, I'm no good at fencing

rats, user ninja'd my joke

caird coinheringaahing

@RedwolfPrograms I might make another run, depends on how active I am at the next one

Redwolf Programs

Doubt we'll need an election until roughly 2024 though

caird coinheringaahing

CMQ: If there was a mod election tomorrow, would you run?

user

22:35

@cairdcoinheringaahing Definitely not, for obvious reasons

flawr

I would walk at most.

Redwolf Programs

I probably would in theory (I'm definitely much more qualified than I was in 2020), although I couldn't because I'm 15

caird coinheringaahing

Oh yeah, there's the age requirement :/

Redwolf Programs

I really wish they could have found a better way to handle that

user

It's probably a legal thing - mods have access to extra info, right?

Redwolf Programs

22:40

Yeah

user

CMQ: If there was a mod election in a year, would you run? (ignoring whether or not you'd be on CGCC until then or if you're not old enough)

Redwolf Programs

I would if this year was 2023 :p

hyper-neutrino

@cairdcoinheringaahing probably not

caird coinheringaahing

> probably

Redwolf Programs

@hyper-neutrino ...

hyper-neutrino

22:43

see the thing is you don't know if i mean "assuming i'm not a mod" (in which case that's concerning because that implies i want to resign) or if i mean "assuming mods can't rerun" (in which case i'm making a stupid joke)

anyway, i gotta go eat dinner now. have fun determining which one i meant o/

Redwolf Programs

o/

caird coinheringaahing

@hyper-neutrino Pretty sure you mean that by running again, you can get 2 diamonds and become a modmoderatorerator

user

@cairdcoinheringaahing One diamond on each side of their name: ♦ hyper-neutrino ♦

Sandbox Posts

0

A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

I'm Lazy*: Top-left align my text * and don't have a word processor code-golfstringarray-manipulation Take several lines of input. Squash it upwards, then squash it left. Output this, with any amount of trailing newlines and spaces. To squash upwards For any non-space character "below" a space, s...

Redwolf Programs

@SandboxPosts My conclusion: Wezl is quite lazy

user

22:46

That's why they should try Haskell

@SandboxPosts I'm afraid this is probably trivial in APL

Wezl

in a language with array capabilities, input an array, transpose padding with spaces, remove spaces, transpose padding with spaces, remove spaces

@user tbf so is everything else :P

Bubbler

Not very trivial, though I did find a solution in ten seconds after loading the page

6

user

In Scala, that'd be 1.to(2)./:(_)((a,_)=>a.transpose.map(_.filter(_!=' '))), which may look long, but is extremely simple

@Wezl ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

caird coinheringaahing

@Wezl 8 bytes in Jelly

Wezl

lol y'all are taking my challenges as CMCs

user

22:54

(sorry)

Wezl

I'm not taking any offense but it does make FGITW easy

OTOH maybe that's a good reward for reviewing sandbox posts ;)

caird coinheringaahing

Just wait a couple of days, people will have forgotten and will have to reremember

Bubbler

Actually, people being able to jump right away and solve it means it is pretty well-defined

Wezl

yeah that's true ig

user

@cairdcoinheringaahing Ha, I don't need to wait whole days to forget things, I can forget them in mere minutes!

Oh wait...

Wezl

22:58

@cairdcoinheringaahing oh sorry I'll have to post to your solution in the question then :D

caird coinheringaahing

¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Go ahead

Wezl

does it actually violate the CoC to rickroll people?

caird coinheringaahing

I don't think so, so long as it isn't done "maliciously"

Wezl

aw rats

flawr

@StackMeter Haven't answered your challenge yet, but I managed to shave off a byte while doing some yak shaving.

proof that yaks == bytes

caird coinheringaahing

23:05

@hyper-neutrino +1 for the illegible hand-drawn diagram :D

Unrelated String

i feel like it can probably be explained with heavy use of indentation as well

Sandbox Posts

0

A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

Optimize imnotdeadfish Fluff After taking a look at deadfish, I decided it sucked, so I came up with a new (and easier) variant of it: imnotdeadfish. As with its predecessor, there are 4 commands and an accumulator which begins at 0: + # increment the accumulator - # decrement the accumulator s #...

Unrelated String

also yeah i think ß breaking is an arity issue since it doesn't directly copy it, it just uses -1

caird coinheringaahing

Yeah, it creates a variadic atom, which is so weird because those shouldn't exist

Unrelated String

yep

Bubbler

23:11

@cairdcoinheringaahing Apparently I'm the third user to reach 1000 upvotes, counting APL answers only

caird coinheringaahing

Line 2859 should be

quicklink = lambda links, outmost_links, index: [create_chain(outmost_links[index], outmost_links[index].arity, outmost_links[index].isForward)]

(I think)

hyper-neutrino

@cairdcoinheringaahing I will become truly unstoppable :D

@cairdcoinheringaahing thanks, glad you enjoyed it :P

caird coinheringaahing

@cairdcoinheringaahing Nope, that's wrong. Actually, it looks as though a variadic quick which determines its arity at runtime is impossible, based on the current way Jelly parses its code

Unrelated String

:|

Bubbler

Any feedbacks on these?

caird coinheringaahing

23:21

for link in chain:
    if link.arity < 0:
        link.arity = 1

lyxal

@pxeger the benefit of having the acronym ATO is that you can help stop tax fraud

hyper-neutrino

added an explanation to my jelly sol

for anyone that wants to be able to actually read it

caird coinheringaahing

Oh, I think I know what it is. Jelly dynamically sets the arities of links with -1 arity (e.g. ß). The way it does this is, when it evaluates a chain with arity a, it sets the arity of every link in that chain to a if it was -1. However, hyper's program has ßṭ¥, meaning that, when it evaluates it monadically at the start, it doesn't set the arity of ß to 1. Instead, it waits until it evaluates the ßṭ¥ link as a dyadic link, setting the arity of ß to 2, which changes the chain

user

@hyper-neutrino Thanks btw

hyper-neutrino

@cairdcoinheringaahing ew. that's really weird, lol.

Redwolf Programs

23:26

caird's message could have been generated by a markov chain trained on JHT and I would have no idea lol

caird coinheringaahing

So what it should do is recursively search for any atom in any chain with a -1 arity and replace it

user

Now I still have no idea what's going on, but that's more because my brain is messy :P

@Bubbler For the S combinator one, writing the reduction rule for S in plain English might help a bit

Looks like a really cool challenge btw

caird coinheringaahing

@Redwolf Let's say you have a command `X`, which means "recurse the current outmost function with the same number of arguments". Now, because you don't know if the current function takes 0, 1 or 2 arguments, you have to find out how many arguments `X` will take on the fly. However, in one example, rather than just have `X` in your main function body `f` (let's say `f` takes 1 argument), you've instead placed it inside a subfunction `g` which takes 2 arguments. Now, you'd expect `X` to recurse on `f` by its definition. However, because your dynamic parsing to determine the number of argument…

hyper-neutrino

if arnauld's output format is acceptable, i can scrape 3 bytes off and use ß since ß} is unambiguously supposed to use ß as a monad

Redwolf Programs

@cairdcoinheringaahing That sort of makes sense, yeah

Also I'm going to try to train a markov chain on (some of) TNB, be back in a little while :p

user

23:35

Given all the different users who speak here, it's probably not going to be super consistent

hyper-neutrino

can anyone reproduce this anymore?

caird coinheringaahing

I predict a high number of :Ps :P

@hyper-neutrino Yep, that's still a bug

hyper-neutrino

can you send a screenshot? I can't reproduce

caird coinheringaahing

Try this link while I grab a scrrenshot

hyper-neutrino

oh I see

i thought it was in the post/edit preview, lol

caird coinheringaahing

23:39

Added the search tag, as I think it only occurs in the search window

I don't think status-review is appropriate here. According to this 2013 post on Math.SE meta by Nick Carver, this isn't going to be fixed. status-reproduced might actually be the most relevant here

hyper-neutrino

oh :/ well. rip

caird coinheringaahing

That is currently the only use of that tag here :P

@hyper-neutrino At least you aren't a mod on SO trying to do this. It fully timed out when I tried running it without the top 1000

9811 with a score of 5 or more

Wait no, I'm stupid

I was running those on stackoverflow, not meta.stackoverflow. 4436 with a score of 5 or more on MSO

Redwolf Programs

The markov chain is going to have to wait, gotta get dinner o/

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