The Nineteenth Byte

Wzl

00:00

@RedwolfPrograms definitely get rid of this (just adds syntactic bloat when var = ... -> ... is shorter anyway)

DLosc

I like the look of λ, but it is harder to type unless you have a Greek keybinding.

user

And Haskell's \ confuses me

DLosc

@user Good luck :p

user

With escaping? I gave up and added a space :P

Redwolf Programs

I know how to do that but I can't tell you because I can't escape it

``\``

There

\

DLosc

00:03

Ah, the double backticks

`` `\` ``

Redwolf Programs

Starting with a backtick is impossible I think, don't attempt it or you'll go insane

DLosc

ok

A username

@RedwolfPrograms _>

hyper-neutrino

@RedwolfPrograms <-

write your functions like x * 2 <- x

Redwolf Programs

We're not starting this again lol

DLosc

00:05

@hyper-neutrino Nah, that's the assignment operator

hyper-neutrino

no you assign your variables like x <- x * 2

one side must be a valid assignable identifier and the other an expression

A username

DLosc

What does x <- y do, assignment or function?

Redwolf Programs

Both

A username

Um....

hyper-neutrino

00:06

@DLosc that's ambiguous, so it has a 25% chance to do both, 25% to do neither, 25% to return a function, and 25% to assign

DLosc

Ah, I see. So this is the JavaScript-flavored version of INTERCAL.

Redwolf Programs

Wait, ` works

(\`)

A username

@DLosc ?

DLosc

@Ausername Let me introduce you to the Compiler Language With No Pronounceable Acronym (INTERCAL) ^_^

hyper-neutrino

INTERCAL is the language that uses COME FROM rather than goto right?

Wzl

00:09

I think it might have both

DLosc

@hyper-neutrino Yes, and also requires a certain amount (but not too many!) of the commands to be prefixed with PLEASE.

hyper-neutrino

nice

A username

And the manual has a 'tonsil' because other manuals have appendices.

Redwolf Programs

Introducing: Generic Review Tool!

3

Install it, go to codegolf.stackexchange.com/review, and wait for the reviews!

It'll open them in a new tab, and updates every 0:40 by default.

hyper-neutrino

wait, does this delete RSR?

wait nvm

i just don't have RSR installed on windows

Redwolf Programs

00:15

No, but you should probably disable it or bad things will happen

hyper-neutrino

i'm smart

Redwolf Programs

I don't imagine running both at the same time would result in a favorable outcome

hyper-neutrino

probably not :p

anyway i will probably not snipe 100% of reviews just to be nice to y'all :p

or like wait for one review first so i don't reduce the number of available tasks overall

Redwolf Programs

Because GRT doesn't actually reload the page (it just loads the reviews in the background), it results in significantly less overhead so it can handle refreshing much more often than RSR without bugs or being overly rude to SE's servers.

hyper-neutrino

oh nice :P are you going to publish this to stackapps (now or eventually)?

Wzl

00:17

@hyper-neutrino I love how we're putting bumping our numbers up over the health of the site :P

Redwolf Programs

@hyper-neutrino Probably

A username

@hyper-neutrino I have 3 :P

hyper-neutrino

@Wzl honestly our reviews get cleared so fast anyway :p and if i notice a task has been up for a while without attention i'll just clear it

our site's moderation load is probably pretty small relative to size/activity, comparatively

idk the stats

Redwolf Programs

Can I pin the GRT announcement?

hyper-neutrino

no

Redwolf Programs

00:19

Thanks :p

hyper-neutrino

:P

A username

CMC: Calculate the last digit of pi. (code-trolling)

hyper-neutrino

VTC as off-topic /s

@Ausername no base specified, so i will assume base pi: the last digit is 1

A username

@hyper-neutrino Dammit.

Wzl

@hyper-neutrino nonsense it's 0 (1.000)

or if it's the last integer digit, 3 in base ten

A username

00:22

In base 1 it's 0.

ngn

in base 10 it's 4.5, on average :)

A username

@hyper-neutrino It's day 18

hyper-neutrino

hmmmm. maybe i'll extend

A username

I have 1/3 of the answers on there

It makes up a substantial fraction of all my answers.

I mean half are deadfish.

DLosc

Tips for golfing in INTERCAL

A username

00:30

Are you serious

DLosc

Maybe

> Also remember that you can overpunch characters to save space.

hyper-neutrino

i just don't find english compression KCs personally too interesting :P

maybe i should make a golfing language that's specifically to solve KCs that can't be done by smart solutions using charcoal

DLosc

You mean Bubblegum?

hyper-neutrino

well no like things with a good amount of repetition

liek the song challenge thus far

though beating bubblegum will be difficult

rak1507

codegolf.stackexchange.com/a/225721/95516 this answer is beautiful

10/10

DLosc

00:37

True dat

Redwolf Programs

Oh wait, GRT only works on CGCC at the moment

I'll delay posting on Stack Apps until I take the time to make it work network wide

hyper-neutrino

lol nice

Redwolf Programs

I'll post it on CGCC meta though

DLosc

@rak1507 26 bytes when ported to Pip. Not bad.

rak1507

neat

Redwolf Programs

00:45

New Posts is so fast lol

I heard the ping immediately when I clicked Post your question

New Meta Posts

1

Q: Introducing Generic Review Tool

Generic Review Tool is a small script designed to detect review tasks on CGCC, and open them in a new tab. It is similar in function to Review Stalker Reloaded, probably the most widely used script for this purpose, but with much simpler functionality. RSR is no longer maintained and has quite a ...

OldSandboxPosts

Sandbox posts last active a week ago: Count my sheep [code-golf] [matrix]

hyper-neutrino

02:20

after spending a good part of two days thinking about how i'd implement TCO properly into a tacit golfing language i've decided the best answer is "don't"

A username

Working on a graph of compose a song.

A username

02:37

Finally!

hyper-neutrino

o.O

rak1507

cool

A username

(that took a while)

I'm adding this to my latest answer.

Fingers crossed someone does day 18.

@StackMeter @Neil It's day 18!

Any feedback?

hyper-neutrino

02:52

is there any point in making it a grid rather than just having it be a flat array so the access index is just a single index number?

A username

Nice idea! Will change.c

hyper-neutrino

oh

i was suggesting to turn both into a flat array

lol

A username

Oops

hyper-neutrino

i guess it doesn't matter too much, since it's not a golf, but i think it isn't necessary to have a 2D index

A username

Ok, will unchange.

New Sandboxed Posts

03:20

0

A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

Make a "proof" generator How to prove that 1 = 2: 1 = 2 2 = 4 -1 = 1 1 = 1 You can just multiply both sides by 0, but that's cheating. This is just bending the rules a little bit. Your challenge: Write a program/function that, when given two integers, outputs a "proof" that the two are equal. Ru...

hyper-neutrino

03:43

i'm glad i took a second look at that edit suggest

looked like a golf edit to me at first

what i am wondering is how redwolf reviewed it 5 minutes before me even though i did it within a minute of the tab opening

which should be max 1:40 delay, shouldn't it? or are the queues themselves just slow lol

@RedwolfPrograms potential bug: GRT opened a new tab for Suggested Edits even though the queue has been empty for a few minutes and it opened to the "this queue has been cleared" page (forgot to check console, sorry. if this happens again i'll remember to see if there's anything)

no console output on the queues page i have pinned itself

Redwolf Programs

04:08

@hyper-neutrino I don't think I can control that if CGCC reports that there's a review task

Might be caching

Also it should be 0:40 not 1:40, right?

Oh wait I'm dumb

Ignore that

hyper-neutrino

@RedwolfPrograms uh, i meant like 40s for the queue + 1m for me to actually review it

oh

ah. yeah this is probably an issue with SE itself now that i think about it

it was refusing to show me a review task even though i could clearly see the suggested edit on the main page :P

Redwolf Programs

I got kind of worried when you said that was happening because there used to be an awful bug that would make it do that every time :p

hyper-neutrino

oh, oof :P

yeah hopefully just SE doing SE things ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Redwolf Programs

It was because I forgot the review queues with tasks in them get moved to the top, and was relying on them to be in the normal order

So it'd always try to open close votes lol

hyper-neutrino

TIL, tbh :P that sounds annoying though lol

lyxal

04:33

CMQ: did you fully read this CMQ?

2

rak1507

yes

lyxal

05:55

TIL you can't switch on Integers in java

very sad.

context

hyper-neutrino

06:21

wait you can't? does it not compile or give type errors or just not match the cases

also this looks like something you should be using enums for but i'm not sure

lyxal

@hyper-neutrino it's a simple experiment to learn inheritance properly

@hyper-neutrino it compiles but errors at runtime

hyper-neutrino

huh. errors, not even just doesn't match? strange lol

Razetime

06:56

why can't all switches be like ruby's

hyper-neutrino

07:11

reloading fixes this easily and this is probably because something on the tab was cached since it automatically opened when i opened chrome after restarting from linux back into windows but uh

wack

Neil

@Ausername I only did day 14 because I needed a 4000th answer

Wasif

07:45

Today I thought it was the high time to make my first review(s) here
But How sad I found every queue cleared :-(
However, That shows how efficient community CGCC is

lyxal

The queues are rarely full anyway lol

Wasif

@lyxal but the late answers queue should be filled isn't it

there are a lot of late answers everyday

lyxal

@Wasif no not really. That's only late answers from new users

Wasif

shrug

A username

08:07

Hello

Wasif

@Ausername howdy

Neil

ugh my mouse is playing up, it just clicked my browser's close button for me :-(

A username

Sorry about the homepage, everone had been spelling Emigna wrong.

lyxal

@Neil I think it just pressed the back button on my phone's Web browser too.

Because it was pressed, and I didn't press it

A username

Maybe your mouse is haunted.

Wasif

08:12

closing web browser on mobile is not a big disaster
because if you reopen your browser you get the tabs again
but in computer you don't get the tabs :-(

A username

Btw how do you reply to yourself?

Wasif

@Wasif like this

A username

@Ausername Nvm I figured it out

Huh I ping myself.

Wasif

@Wasif test

not like that @Ausername

A username

When I reply to myself, I get a notification.

Wasif

08:17

oh then you're correct

A username

@Ausername It will happen again when I create the [minecraft] tag.

Wasif

If you post with Deadfish~ do you get a captcha?
I just got, I saw there is a yellow mark on the header

A username

Yes, but my online interpreter just adds a random comment to the bottom of the template, so no captcha.

Wasif

well what is "Functional Deadfish~"?

any new derivative of Deadfish~ you made @Ausername?

A username

A combination of deadfish~ and functional deadfish

Functional deadfish is a lot more concise than ordinary. It might even be Turing-complete, although it's unlikely as someone would've noticed by now.

Wasif

08:23

oh then it would reduce tons of bytes

why did you not add it it to the language list?

It is hard to find it for people

A username

What language list?

Wasif

esolangs.org language list

A username

I'll have to create a page for it first...

Razetime

08:45

@Wasif usually this means a lot of work

Wasif

@Razetime yeah I know

Razetime

which is why tons of languages aren't on esolangs wiki

A username

09:15

Oh well I added it...

Wasif

@Ausername what is it named as?

A username

Functional_deadfish~

esolangs.org/wiki/Functional_deadfish~

Wasif

Nice

A username

Thx

Any final feedback?

A username

10:04

Bye, going to overthrow the redwolf hivemind!

Why is Lyxal in over half the bookmarked conversations here?

lyxal

10:26

Because I did the bookmarking

A username

How do you bookmark?

I do actually have a conversation I want to boookmark.

lyxal

Room info -> bookmark conversation -> select messages

Iirc

A username

I can't find the button - screenshot plz?

CMC: There are a bunch of posts here that are terribly golfed, help them!

lyxal

A username

Oh, there, thanks!

Bye

Adám

11:18

Announcement: A new podcast series, The Array Cast, has launched with its first episode, Why We Like Array Languages. Expect an episode every 2 weeks.

2

Note that a lot of golfing languages are actually array languages.

lyxal

12:14

@Adám so does that mean you will be discussing such golfing languages?

Adám

13:26

@lyxal Possibly.

pxeger

14:10

@ngn do you have a working link for your APL implementation? What happened to gitlab.com/n9n/apl?

user

14:30

@Ausername I imagine they think the same of us - "There are so many inefficient and hard-to-understand posts on CGCC, we need to civilize those poor people!"

@Razetime Ooh, those let you check if stuff is in a range or list!

Kotlin's are pretty nice too

Adám

@pxeger abrudz.github.io/ngn-apl/web/index.html

user

I hear Java's going to add some basic pattern-matching to its own switch, so I'm looking forward to that

Razetime

@user that sounds great, and I suppose scala will follow

user

@Razetime Follow? Scala's pattern matching's pretty nice already

It can't check if something's in a range/collection like Ruby and Kotlin can (well, it can, but it's not baked into the syntax), but it's not a huge deal

ngn

@pxeger i killed that project. adam's fork can serve as backup if it's of any historical interest.

hyper-neutrino

14:47

so I left my browser and computer on overnight to download something

@Adám huh, I'd never thought about that but I guess Jelly is an array language? (J is too, right? in which case that'd make sense)

I've always just classified Jelly as "tacit" and not considered anything past that

Razetime

@user lol scala already has it

i see

pxeger

@Adám thanks!

@ngn That's a shame. You could have left it archived somewhere, though :(

Razetime

well, it was announced in advance that the project was going to be nuked, so a bunch of people forked it

user

@Razetime Yeah, extractors are very cool. Guards are helpful too

ngn

@pxeger i didn't want to give the impression that i'm recommending apl

pxeger

15:00

@ngn ok (?)

user

@ngn You don't like APL anymore?

ngn

@user i like the original notation

user

The original APL or math notation?

Adám

@hyper-neutrino apl.wiki/Jelly

hyper-neutrino

ooh, nice

ngn

15:05

@user well, both. the executable notation (apl) evolved from iverson's notation for teaching maths.

but some of the later extensions made by dyalog were crap (e.g. .net namespaces)

pxeger

Adám is biting his lip right now, I can feel it

ngn

many problems of apl are deliberately not addressed, and probably never will be, because dyalog are abusing their monopoly, unwilling to fix anything

under the guise of "backwards compatibility"

@pxeger unlikely. i've been saying this for ages.

user

@ngn Oh, was your APL similar to Dyalog?

Ah, I found Adám's fork, it's a shame it's an archive :(

ngn

@user in what sense? most squiggles did the same or similar things. of course i had fewer than them. mine was considerably slower (js..) but could run in a browser.

user

15:25

I mean, why didn't you like it? Did it have the same issues you think Dyalog has?

ngn

@user no, i just discovered k and fell in love with it - a modern, functional array language, like a cleaned up version of apl that has been purified through many iterations of redesign and rewriting, under great pressure for simplification and improving performance

user

Oh, interesting

ngn

but don't expect me to promote it like adam does with dyalog apl

rak1507

k is hard to get into when it's advertised as something so great and then k9 segfaults when you look at it the wrong way and it's not even that fast

ngn

@rak1507 afaik, k9 isn't out yet

rak1507

15:38

is k9 not shakti?

ngn

and it's the least k-like k :)

@rak1507 it is

rak1507

or is that different

well there are binaries on the website

ngn

@rak1507 yes, for language geeks like us

rak1507

so are those binaries not k9?

ngn

@ngn to provide free testing, sort of :)

@rak1507 they are an early not-yet-released version of k9 (at least last time i looked)

rak1507

15:41

ahh ok got it

ngn

15:52

btw, unrelated: i got my old PE account back, yay!

rak1507

oh, nice!

you'll probably flag some sort of automated cheat detection when you start submitting the new solutions on your new account lol

ngn

@rak1507 that's exactly what happened :) i created a new account and started submitting my surviving backed up solutions too quickly, i got flagged and delisted, then complained to the PE team, and they asked me for evidence that i had indeed owned the old account

rak1507

oh, so then they managed to give you the old account back?

ngn

@rak1507 yep

i had to provide convincing evidence that i am ngn :)

rak1507

@rak1507 realised I said 'new account' here, I meant the old account

ngn

16:03

@rak1507 doesn't matter, i have only one now, and i can see we are friends with you there :)

rak1507

yeah, I can see all the problems you've solved which is cool

side note: even though 300 questions is a lot, it's crazy that it's still 'only' 40% of the site, there's so much

ngn

more will be coming up but at a slow rate to avoid trouble

rak1507

yeah don't want to get flagged again

ngn

@rak1507 when i reached 300 there were much fewer problems, so it must have been a greater %

rak1507

yeah, there are nearly 800 problems now

Wasif

16:11

sup

rak1507

hi

Wasif

@rak1507 hello!

does CJam have a github page?

hyper-neutrino

there's docs here: github.com/Sp3000/CJam

you can download the code from sourceforge though

^^ unofficial

the SF page has a wiki too

Wasif

thx

hyper-neutrino

16:36

do all functions in APL have two arities?

pxeger

@hyper-neutrino No

hyper-neutrino

i'm reading about trains and i can't seem to find anything about arity/adicity requirements for forks/atops even though for example ⍺ (f g h) ⍵ requires f and h to be dyadic

ngn

@hyper-neutrino all apl functions are ambivalent, i.e. can be applied either monadically or dyadically. tradfns can also be ~~niladic~~ medadic

@hyper-neutrino f and h will be applied the same way as you apply the whole fork (monadically/dyadically). g is always applied dyadically.

@Adám you've changed the way you pronounce your name?

hyper-neutrino

oh, okay, thanks

Adám

@ngn No.

ngn

16:43

@Adám i think i heard stress on the first syllable. ok, never mind.

Adám

@ngn You did. That's how I pronounce my name in English.

It's just that people tend to hear my name from others more than from me…

2

Razetime

16:58

@ngn nice to know

caird coinheringaahing

17:50

@RedwolfPrograms Does it also check meta?

Redwolf Programs

No, not yet

I'll add support for other sites and their metas in 1.1

But I promised to release this when I got proofreader :p

caird coinheringaahing

I guess I'm checking meta manually until then, like a chump :P

@hyper-neutrino SE shows different review tasks to different users, it's very weird

hyper-neutrino

wack ಠ_ಠ

> This question does not appear to be about $Topic within the scope defined in the [meta-help].

our meta close reason still uses our old site name

caird coinheringaahing

Isn't that only in the 10k+ tools?

hyper-neutrino

can 10k+ users see this? i thought this was mod-only

caird coinheringaahing

17:57

codegolf.meta.stackexchange.com/tools/…

10k+

hyper-neutrino

oh lol

well i'm on a different page (the page to manage/edit them)

caird coinheringaahing

I don't have the "edit" button like in your SS, but that's almost definitely mod-only :P

> I am closing this question because it turns out this isn't something we can do.

hyper-neutrino

tempted to just override it by saying CGCC instead of using $Topic

doubt our site name will ever change and if so someone can just change it again if they find out

caird coinheringaahing

Honestly, do it :P

hyper-neutrino

apparently either nobody's found out or nobody's cared to point it out until now :p

caird coinheringaahing

17:59

@hyper-neutrino Our current close reason on Main kinda does too:

> This question does not appear to be about programming puzzles or code golf within the scope defined in the help center.

hyper-neutrino

lol

> This question does not appear to be about Programming Puzzles & Code Golf Stack Exchange or the software that powers the Stack Exchange network within the scope defined in the help center.

the latter part of that looks more for general meta

does anyone have a list of magic links

IDK how i should be linking network in ^^^

caird coinheringaahing

@hyper-neutrino link

@hyper-neutrino network [network](http://stackexchange.com/sites)

hyper-neutrino

thanks

oh no magic link. :c

alright fixed, + main close reason

although the main default close reason doesn't matter

caird coinheringaahing

18:16

@Adám I've only listened to the first 10 minutes or so, but I gotta say that it's incredible the way you guys basically describe what I like so much about Jelly, while talking about APL/J/k

Obviously it makes sense given the "ancestry" there, but your point about the expressiveness of APL is exactly what I think with Jelly

Adám

18:40

Cool.

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