The Nineteenth Byte

12:37 AM

Idea for a challenge, worth posting? This is a list of classes of natural numbers. Take a natural number n as input. Output one or more of m distinct consistent values that indicates which of those classes n is part of. You may choose m (i.e. how many classes you handle) but highest m wins

Redwolf Programs

With a restriction on code size, I'm guessing?

Bubbler

I guess I can support infinitely many classes that fall under "figurate numbers"

which obviously breaks the challenge

caird coinheringaahing

@RedwolfPrograms If I post to sandbox, scoring is some relation between bytes and m

@Bubbler Assuming that you can only support those listed, you can't

There is a finite number of classes listed, therefore your score is finite

Bubbler

Well then it's not a game-breaker, but still I think they're the largest group of closely related classes on that page

caird coinheringaahing

Let me change it slightly: that's a list of classes. That challenge, but where I removed classes that overlap/are too similar to trivialise. Worth posting?

Bubbler

12:45 AM

Also, I think I saw a similar challenge before, where you're supposed to implement multiple number classes with very little similarity. IIRC the reaction was not very great

I'd rather focus on more closely related ones

caird coinheringaahing

Hmm. I posted this question back in 2017, but that required checking for each, rather than allowing answers to choose which categories to support

Bubbler

That's a super-duplicate :P

caird coinheringaahing

Yep :P

First time I saw a question as a multiple dupe target :P

Razetime

1:55 AM

@cairdcoinheringaahing never seen this many links on a dupe

Lyxal

2:08 AM

Peter Taylor really do be using multiple links tho

oh hey red's here

Hi redwolf!

Redwolf Programs

I've lost 40 rep from users being removed in the last two days :/

Oh hi Lyxal

Lyxal

you should try answering in a particular esolang

you might get 50 rep

no promises

Redwolf Programs

I just printed on cardstock, with a printer that says it doesn't work with cardstock, and it worked. I'm such a madlad 😎

Which esolang would you be referring to?

Lyxal

Hmm

I wonder which one

I wonder which esolang I want people using.

Razetime

MAWP abviously

Redwolf Programs

2:18 AM

Vyxal?

caird coinheringaahing

@RedwolfPrograms I lost 80 :/

Lyxal

@RedwolfPrograms and we have a winner

@Razetime clearly ;p

caird coinheringaahing

@Lyxal Jelly?

Lyxal

@cairdcoinheringaahing yesn't

Redwolf Programs

Clearly they're referring to the original golfing language, Java

caird coinheringaahing

2:19 AM

The issue I have with Vyxal, 05AB1E, Stax etc is that they’re boring

Redwolf Programs

In what way?

Stack based?

caird coinheringaahing

Stack based languages are easy to golf in, compared to tacit style

Redwolf Programs

Ash is going to be prefix, which is basically tacit

Razetime

I'm not a fan of stack based, but I like cheating more lol

Redwolf Programs

Plus Ash will have some ~~awful unreadable~~ interesting function operators

caird coinheringaahing

2:21 AM

Don’t get me wrong, there’s some answers that have solid insight that win a challenge, but I’ve never seen a stack based language win because it’s stack based, but I have seen tacit languages win because their tacit structure allows them to win

Razetime

stack based languages do win because they have stack based structure tho

caird coinheringaahing

@Razetime But not really. Stacks allow you to store a bunch of information, which tacit languages don’t. Beyond that, they aren’t that interesting

Redwolf Programs

If the operators are implemented properly, stack based is more capable than (non pre-/post- fix) tacit IMO

caird coinheringaahing

Most submissions in a stack based language have the form “Do X. Do Y. Do Z. Do A. Do B”, which leaves basically no room for creative golfing

Razetime

@cairdcoinheringaahing not interesting? I agree.

golfy? very much so.

Redwolf Programs

2:24 AM

Yeah. Boring, but sometimes effective.

caird coinheringaahing

Boo

Interesting memory models > short code

Example: Whispers

Redwolf Programs

Hey, I don't like stack based that much either. I switched Ash from stack based to prefix, which wasn't easy :p

Razetime

too bad there's only like, one tacit language that anybody uses

Lyxal

@cairdcoinheringaahing most stack based languages don't have functions. Are functions interesting?

caird coinheringaahing

@Lyxal Most stack based languages have functions

Lyxal

2:25 AM

but do they have functions as objects?

Redwolf Programs

Are we talking about practical ones or golfing ones?

Lyxal

@RedwolfPrograms golfing

caird coinheringaahing

{} in Golfscript/CJam, X} in 05AB1E, [] in Factor etc.

Redwolf Programs

Functions as objects are way easier with stack based than tacit

In terms of number of code points required, at least

caird coinheringaahing

@Lyxal Typically, stack based languages treat functions the same way they treat anything else. Tacit languages fully change their parsing depending on “quicks”

Lyxal

2:27 AM

@cairdcoinheringaahing i dont know which info.txt you're reading because functions aren't objects in 05ab1e

caird coinheringaahing

@Lyxal But they basically are. Short of actually being pushed to the stack, they can act 100% independently

Lyxal

I'm talking about actually having the function stored on the stack

caird coinheringaahing

They aren’t quite CJam levels of functions but they’re like 90% of the way there

@Lyxal Any sensible golfing stack based language should implement it that way. 05AB1E as hacked together over 5 years, so it didnt

Razetime

hmm stax has stored functions

Lyxal

@RedwolfPrograms my offer still stands

caird coinheringaahing

2:29 AM

@Razetime Boo. Everyone boo the compressed cheater :P

Razetime

most follow the golfscript model of storing functions as "blocks" on the stack

caird coinheringaahing

Compression and flags. 2 biggest cheats IMO

Redwolf Programs

@Lyxal I'll do it later, but I'm eating right now :p

@cairdcoinheringaahing Agreed

Razetime

@cairdcoinheringaahing still loses to 05AB1E :P

Lyxal

@Razetime and by extension Vyxal

Razetime

2:30 AM

Vyxal doesn't feel like a direct port

yet

Lyxal

I may have accidentally made too many commands similar to 05ab1e...

caird coinheringaahing

@Lyxal Aside from being a mod, there is nothing that can give me more power on the site, so I no longer care about rep (aside from the rep count badges) :P

Lyxal

@cairdcoinheringaahing that's why i ain't giving you the offer

Redwolf Programs

Every 100k should give you the ability to delete one user of your choice to keep it interesting :p

caird coinheringaahing

Can I delete A’_’ or whatever they’ve called themselves this time, on the conditions that they stop deleting their account?

Redwolf Programs

2:33 AM

Why do they keep doing that?

caird coinheringaahing

@RedwolfPrograms Jon Skeet would’ve deleted 12 users on Stack Overflow by now :P

Bubbler

Golfer's Theorem: All golfing languages' built-ins eventually converge

8

caird coinheringaahing

@RedwolfPrograms Something about being cursed whenever they get to 8k

@Bubbler 05AB1E and Husk having single byte builtins for power set and permutations, while Jelly has a whole byte dedicated to “Print the Jelly representation of the argument” never fails to annoy me :/

Redwolf Programs

@Bubbler I don't know...at some point they'll probably find some way to be different from each other.

Specialization, maybe, or a whole new way of writing the programs

caird coinheringaahing

Or the goddamn radians builtin. Never used that once, but I’ve written Œ! and ŒP more times than I can count

Razetime

2:37 AM

just fork it and change right

caird coinheringaahing

Done that, but it isn’t on TIO so it’s a hassle to answer with

Razetime

pythonanywhere then?

just make a barebones site to answer with

caird coinheringaahing

I do believe I’ve used all of Jelly’s single byte atoms at least once on this site tho

@Razetime That’s effort tho. I’m fine losing to Stax, Husk 05AB1E and Jonathan Allan for the moment

Razetime

Jonathan Allan HAH

although the "moment" doesn't sound that short

caird coinheringaahing

Idk how he does it, but if I have a Jelly answer, he can write one shorter

@Razetime Jelly’s got the highest ELO rating this month, so who knows?

Razetime

2:43 AM

idk if i trust that query

it doesn't even show vyxal

caird coinheringaahing

Yeah, it is kinda sus. But until someone fixes it, I guess we’re stuck with it

Razetime

it also doesn't have rating decay

caird coinheringaahing

> But until someone fixes it, I guess we’re stuck with it

- Us, whenever something that requires SE intervention to fix happens

Jo King

speaking of which, the h flag doesn't work on the online Vyxal interpreter

Razetime

@cairdcoinheringaahing when the SEDE query is sus 😳

caird coinheringaahing

2:45 AM

@JoKing Speaking of, it’s been 7 months since new users can post in the Sandbox

Is it possible to re-escalate in the Teacher’s Lounge, or wherever relevant?

Redwolf Programs

Have we asked about it on Mother Meta?

Lyxal

@cairdcoinheringaahing yesnt.

@RedwolfPrograms you do not question the deletions

caird coinheringaahing

@RedwolfPrograms Kind of

Lyxal

@cairdcoinheringaahing that rationality is now long gone

Jo King

i'll poke around, but no guarantee

caird coinheringaahing

2:47 AM

It turns out it also applies to multiple other sites, so someone opened a Mother Meta question about it. However, it’s gone all but unanswered

Lyxal

@JoKing I'll work on fixing that

caird coinheringaahing

@JoKing Just one thing: it got marked status-review in the recent events to deal with outstanding bug reports. I tried to talk to a CM about how important it is here, but didn’t get a response. I’d recommend suggesting/emphasising just how important it is here

It’s more than just a bug; it’s actively making the site quality worse

4

2

A: Lowered reputation threshold for meta participation on some sites is not working

I've been able to reproduce this with a sock puppet account. I agree this shouldn't be happening and we should see what checks are in place and causing the inconsistent behavior. This issue has been added to our backlog and once we address it, will have the team update here. Adding status-deferre...

Go annoy that CM, see if we can get an important bug fixed

Redwolf Programs

I can't imagine it taking too much effort to fix, although I'm sure they'd gladly kill of a few small sites if it means they can use dev time for the profitable sites

caird coinheringaahing

I can understand not doing much if it only affects one site; however, when it affects 2 of the most active sites (judging by HNQ posts) on the network, and it’s about new users, which SE has made priority #1, I don’t get how this is still a bug

caird coinheringaahing

3:13 AM

@NewMainPosts CMC: This (print 1 to 100), but without the restricted-source

I’d be surprised if many languages are substantially different to the main post

Bubbler

@cairdcoinheringaahing The main is to print 0 to 100, not 1 to 100

Lyxal

@cairdcoinheringaahing Vyxal, still 1 byte

Bubbler

Anyway, APL: ⍳100 (⍳101 if 0 to 100), too lazy to find if there's any answer there

I guess 1 being allowed or not will make some differences

Factor: 100 [0,b] [ . ] map

With restriction, 100 should be CHAR: d or 0xa sq instead

Redwolf Programs

@cairdcoinheringaahing Ash, 3 bytes: ∴i⁽ (two bytes if 1 to 100)

Lyxal

@cairdcoinheringaahing 05ab1e, 2 bytes

Bubbler

3:25 AM

Rust: ||for i in 0..101{print!("{} ",i)}, 34 bytes

With restriction: change 101 to b'e'

Okay, I guess it doesn't make big difference

Lyxal

Flagless, vyxal is two bytes regardless of the needed range.

Redwolf Programs

Do you have separate operators for 0 to n and 0 to n - 1?

Lyxal

Yes

I have [0, n], [0, n), [1, n] and [1, n)

Redwolf Programs

No [n, N) or [n, N]?

Lyxal

I've got those too

If you need a range between numbers I've got you covered.

Redwolf Programs

3:31 AM

Hmm, maybe I should add some more range related operators given that I've got so many available number code points

Bubbler

(Unrelated: Factor has [0,b], [0,b), [1,b], [1,b), [a,b], [a,b), (a,b], (a,b), which are all the actual names of the respective functions)

Razetime

@Bubbler lmao

Idea: Whispers-based golflang

Redwolf Programs

I'm disappointed there are no [b,0], (b,0], [b,1], (b,1], or [0,1] functions :p

Bubbler

3:46 AM

7 hours ago, by Redwolf Programs

Since a rep requirement to ask would require major changes from SE anyway, I'd suggest making the sandbox special in some way so that upvotes in the sandbox count for something like +2 or +5 rep, then add the rep minimum and replace the "ask question" button with "visit sandbox"

I was just imagining how funny it would be if the "ask question" button is replaced with "visit sandbox" but new users are not allowed to write a sandbox post until they get 5 rep

That would improve the site quality a lot

Lyxal

4:04 AM

@JoKing the h flag now works online

Razetime

h

Lyxal

yes, h

guys how to reduce list by function in java?

internet says use streams, but I'm looking for the code golf way

Bubbler

4:24 AM

It is wrong to golf in java

Lyxal

I'm not using java for golf im using java for education

but i like short code

and education does not teach short code

Bubbler

If you don't want streams, you might have to do the usual for loop

Lyxal

What are streams?

actually no i'll google it

Bubbler

This

it's basically iterator for java

Bubbler

5:11 AM

Any feedback?

New Main Posts

5:50 AM

0

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I don't know if deadlines are a thing with these coding challenges, but... Deadline: March 31, 2021 In this coding challenge you need to make the fastest multi-dimensional array sorting algorithm. I will choose the fastest one on March 31, so get yours in before then! Here are the rules: You...

Bubbler

6:15 AM

@NewMainPosts Can we close this?

Redwolf Programs

As what? Needs clarity?

Or should we just close it as a dupe of a more general sorting one

Lyxal

6:30 AM

@Bubbler worked well, got the job done nicely

user202729

10:31 AM

Now we're having weird close voters. That post just have the word homeomorphism and it's unclear (I guess) already?

10

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Razetime

this one's fine, they're interpreting unclear as "something for which I am too dumb to click on links, read and understand" rather than "something that's poorly specified and unexplained"

user202729

While SO doesn't like it, we can start mandating leaving comment on unclear vote.

No comment on down vote is okay. (although in such cases there are usually comments anyway)

codegolf.meta.stackexchange.com/questions/13751/… huh?

Ok... codegolf.meta.stackexchange.com/questions/16959/…

user202729

10:50 AM

Last time I did put it in the sandbox for a very long time, however.

Weird idea: post a main post to ask people to review the sandbox post.

That fold-and-cut challenge is actually pretty nice, except that it's terribly hard to implement. Especially for code golf...

It can be defined in terms of non-stretched continuous deformation...

user202729

I really want to prove that any homeomorphism is a sequence of "obvious" transformations + rotation and reflection, but the homeomorphism is so abstract.

All non-square corners are adjacent to at least 3 and at most 4 edges. And the number doesn't change after the transformation.

user202729

11:06 AM

Regarding the sandbox for 1-rep user thing, perhaps someone can maintain an external service to collect those and post...

Might be easier to just switch to other site entirely.

user202729

Obviously connected components stay connected.

And different sides of an edge stays different.

Therefore the planar map stays the same.

user202729

11:24 AM

Perhaps Euler's formula will be useful here...

I think I found a nontrivial homeomorphism.

user202729

1:24 PM

codegolf.stackexchange.com/questions/220053/… <-- goto the comment to see the nontrivial homeomorphism. MathJax doesn't work here.

But seriously, MathJax can create some weird pictures. Someone even used that to cover the down vote button on the answer.

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2:21 PM

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For today's task, we have two programs, P and Q, both in the same language. Each of them receives a single-character input. If P receives character K, P says how many times K appeared in Q. (You can use any output format for P or Q; they need not be the same, the only requirement is that your for...

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user

2:46 PM

@Lyxal list.stream().reduce(f)

There's an overload that folds from the left, and another that can do it in parallel. The Stream API's still pretty primitive, but it's very useful

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sorting

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Adám

5:16 PM

Announcement: Dyalog APL Seeds ― A free online event aimed at new and prospective users of APL

3

rak1507

5:32 PM

tmw people can get rep just by spamming answers, quantity over quality :(

caird coinheringaahing

Jul 25 '17 at 15:16, by Mr. Xcoder

New verb: to Leaky – FGITW a challenge and answer it in 10 different languages.

Leaky Nun was known for that back in the day :P

rak1507

at least his answers were decent

rak1507

6:19 PM

Downvoting costs rep? :( what

rak1507

6:38 PM

how can I get a link to someone's profile in a SEDE query

Redwolf Programs

You can just get their ID and paste it into https://codegolf.stackexchange.com/users/[id], right?

rak1507

how come the 'OwnerDisplayName' column only works sometimes?

Redwolf Programs

Deleted users, maybe?

rak1507

nope

Redwolf Programs

What's the query?

Are you filtering the PostTypeId?

rak1507

6:43 PM

data.stackexchange.com/codegolf/query/1380700

average scores

Neil

8:02 PM

@rak1507 <-- Proud spammer of over 3,800 answers

oh, that doesn't work how I meant, sorry

Unrelated String

8:46 PM

did this windows insider update just completely break my inverted scrolling

user

0

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Your friend has been caught sleeping in class again! As punishment, his computer science teacher has assigned him homework, knowing that he will not be able to solve it due to not having paid any attention. The assignment seems deceiving simple at first; all that is required is to output the stri...

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Doesn't seem particularly interesting to me

New Main Posts

0

Q: “Simple” Programming Homework

Your friend has been caught sleeping in class again! As punishment, his computer science teacher has assigned him homework, knowing that he will not be able to solve it due to not having paid any attention. The assignment seems deceiving simple at first; all that is required is to output the stri...

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user

@NewMainPosts Ha! Beat you to it

rak1507

@Neil I'd hardly call your answers spam

Unrelated String

non inverted scrolling is actually driving me insane

how do people live with this

and why isn't this just in settings

rak1507

9:01 PM

inverted scrolling is when you scroll up to go up right

Unrelated String

it's when moving the wheel up scrolls down

like if you're using touchpad gestures, or a scroll bar

rak1507

I think that's what I use on my laptop at the moment

Unrelated String

i think it's default on macs

and as a former mac user i am completely reliant on it lmao

in a sane world inverted scrolling would be what we call the windows default

rak1507

it's probably default on windows as well I don't think I've ever changed it

Unrelated String

huh

i have to use the registry editor to enable it on windows

and it doesn't seem like that works anymore either

this is specifically for a mouse scroll wheel because ofc all touch pads work that way

Lyxal

9:10 PM

@NewMainPosts you know it's a bad challenge when Keg can just submit a cheating quine.

Redwolf Programs

~~and you know it's a bad answer when Keg just submits a cheating quine~~

rak1507

@UnrelatedString what

lol, windows is ... weird

Lyxal

@RedwolfPrograms hey I barely find an opportunity for my poor language to win.

I take opportunities when I can.

Unrelated String

yeah lmao
the best part is it's not even an overall system setting, you have to do it for the individual device based on multiple id numbers you have to dredge out from driver update logs

Lyxal

@UnrelatedString wait you invert scrolling too?

Unrelated String

9:15 PM

@Lyxal had a mac for 6 years so yeah

rak1507

@UnrelatedString what the unholy hell

lmao

Lyxal

@UnrelatedString And here's me thinking I was the only one

rak1507

why don't they just make it as easy as they make it to change touchpad scrolling