The Nineteenth Byte

gnibbler

03:09

oh cool. I was awarded a bronze code-golf badge :)

Chris Jester-Young

05:20

@gnibbler Congrats!!

gnibbler

05:51

@Chris, you need to answer more questions

Chris Jester-Young

06:02

@gnibbler I agree. I need more time first. :-(

George Edison

07:09

What do you guys think?

...it's just a start.

Omeid Herat

Nice!

i didn't knew about "Code GOlf"

@GeorgeEdison what its all about ?

George Edison

GOlf?

Omeid Herat

Golf*

George Edison

It's an attempt to expand my UserScript by injecting styling information into the page.

Omeid Herat

ok one more dumb questions

whhat is userscript ?

George Edison

07:15

Wikipedia:WikiProject User scripts

A user script is a piece of JavaScript code executed on Wikipedia pages. Scripts can make navigation easier and simplify common maintenance tasks. This was formed to help create, organize and share user scripts. __NOTOC__ Scripts Scripts – a library of user scripts. – a page for requests for new user scripts or updates to existing scripts. Development *Guide – on writing user scripts *Ajax guide – resources on using Ajax (outdated) */Tutorial/ – tutorial on how to start using or writing user scripts */Techniques/ – list of JavaScript techniques commonly used in scripts *Pil...

Omeid Herat

Something like Firefox greasemonkey monkey ?

George Edison

Yes.

My script runs in GreaseMonkey too.

Omeid Herat

Awesome!

George Edison

7

Q: Code Golf UserScript to help in navigating the site [v0.30 now available]

Current version: The current version of the script is 0.30. I was inspired by this Meta post to write a UserScript that would automatically tally up the size of code blocks and display the count underneath. The advantage provided by the script is that it brings uniformity in regards to line-...

discussion

^---- All of the information about the script.

Omeid Herat

is Code Golf all about Userscripts ?

@GeorgeEdison ?

Chris Jester-Young

07:27

@OmeidHerat No, it just enables you to use the site better.

The term code golf refers to a coding contest where people try to write the shortest code to solve a given problem.

@GeorgeEdison's user script counts the code size for you, so you don't have to. It will also tell you which entry is the winning entry, etc.

George Edison

Sorry, I missed your message :)

Ya, @Chris is dead-on.

That's what the script does.

...oh, and it can sort answers by code size too.

Chris Jester-Young

:-)

Omeid Herat

@ChrisJesterYoung thanks dude.

Chris Jester-Young

@OmeidHerat My pleasure. If you want to participate on the site, you can start by learning some languages that are optimised for short code, like GolfScript or J.

The top starred entry from @Nabb is a brief tutorial on GolfScript.

Omeid Herat

will i didn't knew the term Golf Script !

do the Jquery count as a kind of GolfScript ?

Cause its kinda more then a framework, its more like a short way of writing JavaScript.

Chris Jester-Young

07:36

@OmeidHerat GolfScript is a programming language. It's designed to be used in code golf contests. You can enter code golf contest using any language you like, including jQuery if you want.

Omeid Herat

Awesome!

Chris Jester-Young

You will find that programs written in GolfScript are often shorter than programs written in, say, JavaScript.

(Even if you're using jQuery. ;-))

Omeid Herat

hahaha, so what platform this GolfScript works on ?

Chris Jester-Young

@OmeidHerat GolfScript is a Ruby program.

Omeid Herat

oh thanks

found the website

Chris Jester-Young

07:39

Yep. :-)

Omeid Herat

just going to have a look

Chris Jester-Young

:-D

Omeid Herat

looks interesting !

how long it has been there ?

Chris Jester-Young

GolfScript the language has been around for 3 years or so.

Code golf contests have been around for over 10 years.

Omeid Herat

Woh!

Chris Jester-Young

07:40

The original golf contests, if I remember right, were conducted using Perl.

George Edison

@Chris:

Sorry, wrong post.

Omeid Herat

I am embarrassed that I didn't knew anything about it before.

Chris Jester-Young

@GeorgeEdison Hahahaha.

George Edison

31 mins ago, by George Edison

There.

What do you think of my initial design attempt?

Chris Jester-Young

@OmeidHerat It's fine. Lots of visitors to our site scratch their heads as to what is code golf, too. :-P

@GeorgeEdison Well, I'm not sure what to think. On the one hand, looking straight down to the ground like you have, makes me think of "six feet under".

On the other hand, if you do a golf course picture, that may be too distracting, and it's not as uniform (if that's the desired effect).

George Edison

07:42

Well, it's more of an experiment.

I was thinking of having a hole in one somewhere near the logo.

(The logo / title)

Chris Jester-Young

Sure. Make one of the Os a hole, and the other O a golf ball, I guess. :-P

George Edison

Yeah!

I like that idea!

Chris Jester-Young

:-P

George Edison

Eventually this site will graduate and need a style overhaul anyway.

...so I took the initiative.

Man... my script is almost 20kb now.

I'm spending some time reorganizing it.

Chris Jester-Young

@GeorgeEdison Nice.

I wish browsers supported more languages than JS.

Steve Yegge's opinions about the "Next Big Language" notwithstanding, I don't much care for JS.

George Edison

07:47

Hmmm... or wrote a JS interpreter for those other languages :P

I wonder if that's been done...

Chris Jester-Young

@GeorgeEdison That's...masochistic.

@GeorgeEdison My friend Cody has written a Python-to-JS compiler.

George Edison

It'd be kind-of hack-ish, though.

Chris Jester-Young

@GeorgeEdison Well yes, in that you're really using the browser object model, just using Python syntax. But still. If you despise JS, it's a nice way to get around it.

George Edison

Yeah.

I'm hoping 7Basic will catch on soon.

Chris Jester-Young

@GeorgeEdison Why so?

George Edison

07:50

launchpad.net/7basic

^---- 'Cuz I wrote it :P

It's come a long way, but still has a ways to go.

Chris Jester-Young

Call me a language snob, but I seriously don't care for anything that resembles BASIC. :-P

George Edison

It's intended to be a C-meets-BASIC-meets-C# kind of language.

It's going to have classes and maybe even pointers :)

It's a fun project regardless.

Chris Jester-Young

@GeorgeEdison Okay, but I don't care for C or C# either. :-P Again, I'm just being a snob; maybe it will have some appeal to mainstream programmers. :-P

George Edison

I'm hoping...

...and right now it can actually compile simple snippets directly to x86 assembly.

The goal is native machine code.

Chris Jester-Young

@GeorgeEdison I want to implement a Scheme system that JITs straight to assembly.

@GeorgeEdison But, it sounds fun, so go you!

George Edison

07:55

Thanks! It is more fun than anything else.

It will of course be aimed at beginners.

When I first started programming, I really longed for a BASIC compiler that could generate native Win32 executables.

...VisualBasic was too expensive.

Chris Jester-Young

Now you can get VB.NET Express for free! :-P

And as a bonus, it runs as managed code rather than unmanaged! :-P :-P :-P

(Yes, I'm well aware that VB.NET is a very different language from VB.)

George Edison

...I'm not a big .Net fan.

Chris Jester-Young

Hahahahaha.

George Edison

Actually, (and this will not make you happy) I'm a big C++ fan.

I love Qt.

Chris Jester-Young

I actually have a fair bit of C++ programming experience. I don't dislike C++ at all, especially when paired with Boost.

(Yes, Qt is nice too.)

However, C++ is still for unmanaged programming, and in my view, the days for unmanaged code are numbered.

The future belongs to managed programming, and rightfully so.

15

Q: For kernel/OS is C still it?

I like operating systems and would eventually like to become a OS developer mostly working on kernels. In the future will C still be the language of choice and what else should I be trying to learn?

operating-system kernel osdev

In that particular thread, there are two camps: the unmanaged camp, who thinks that OSs should be written in C or C++, and the managed camp, who thinks that OSs should be written in a fully-managed language.

(By OS, I mean the kernel. For the userland, using a managed language throughout is a no-brainer.)

George Edison

08:03

I would be in the former camp.

Chris Jester-Young

Well, that's obvious. :-)

George Edison

I'm not a big C fan though... I like my classes and references!

...and the STL!

Chris Jester-Young

Yes, I do like C++ a lot better than C.

I am thinking of writing a Scheme implementation in C++, just for fun.

George Edison

Well, go for it!

Chris Jester-Young

Mostly a way for me to experiment with implementation techniques, such as how to make a Scheme compiler that can compile itself, etc.

For many Scheme coders, and I'm no exception, writing a kernel fully in Scheme is the holy grail.

Have you heard of a processor architecture called MMIX?

My initial plan is to make my compiler target MMIX.

George Edison

08:10

No, afraid not.

Chris Jester-Young

www-cs-faculty.stanford.edu/~knuth/mmix.html

It's the instruction set that will be used in the next editions of The Art of Computer Programming.

Anyway, its design was inspired by the likes of Alpha and MIPS, and is much, much cleaner than the x86 instruction set.

(I've done lots of x86 assembly programming myself, so I'm not saying this because I'm too wimpy for x86 or anything.)

George Edison

Yeah.

My x86 assembly book is what really inspired my compiler to take off.

It even explained the actual assembly process.

(Since x86 is a variable length opcode platform, it's quite complicated.)

Chris Jester-Young

Yes, it's hardcore. :-)

I used to be able to look at a bunch of assembly code and tell you the exact length of the resulting opcodes.

I didn't have an assembler, so I hand-assembled stuff using debug.exe.

And since debug.exe has no labels, I had to calculate all the jump locations by hand.

Hence, the experience with working out the size of some given code. ;-)

George Edison

Wow.

Chris Jester-Young

Oh yeah, I've done this for a while. :-) I learnt x86 assembly when I was 14 (and for reference, I'm 30 now).

George Edison

08:17

Cool. I got into C++ when I was about 15.

7

Q: Code Golf UserScript to help in navigating the site [v0.31 now available]

Current version: The current version of the script is 0.31. I was inspired by this Meta post to write a UserScript that would automatically tally up the size of code blocks and display the count underneath. The advantage provided by the script is that it brings uniformity in regards to line-...

discussion

Well, version 0.31 is out.

Chris Jester-Young

Good fun. :-)

George Edison

It has the option to enable the new experimental theme I was talking about.

Time to call it a night...

Chris Jester-Young

Nice. Have fun!

@GeorgeEdison P.S. Fancy for being able to handle my gnarly binary GolfScript entry. :-P

Omeid Herat

i know it ths wrong place

but anyone knows some physics !?

i am trying to explain something but can't.

Chris Jester-Young

@OmeidHerat Just ask. If someone knows, they'll answer.

Omeid Herat

08:29

Ok here I shoot it !

a body of mass 1kg has a velocity of 1m/s and is a cted on by a force of 10 newton which is always at right angel (normal force) to its direction.

why it turns in a cricule with a costant speed ?

I understand it, but don't know why.

Chris Jester-Young

To understand this, you have to understand some calculus. :-)

The numbers don't matter, as long as the force is always constant and at a right angle.

I don't remember enough calculus to be of any help.

Omeid Herat

i know, that the force at right angle (normal force) dosn't changes the speed but it change the direction.

but why ? is the question

Chris Jester-Young

Centripetal force

Centripetal force (from Latin centrum "center" and petere "to seek") is a force that makes a body follow a curved path: it is always directed orthogonal to the velocity of the body, toward the instantaneous center of curvature of the path. The mathematical description was derived in 1659 by Dutch physicist Cristiaan Huygens. Isaac Newton's description was: "A centripetal force is that by which bodies are drawn or impelled, or in any way tend, towards a point as to a center." Formula The magnitude of the centripetal force on an object of mass m moving at a speed v along a path wi...

Omeid Herat

@ChrisJesterYoung thanks man

Chris Jester-Young

:-)

gnibbler

10:40

The koch snowflake has 1 vote for every 10 views :) but only 1 answer so far

Chris Jester-Young

@gnibbler Probably too challenging. :-P

gnibbler

10:57

i expect you to have a crack at it

It's hard enough that even scheme might have a chance

until someone does a GS or J answer :)

gnibbler

11:11

Sierpinski gasket was only 46 chars in GS and that had to parse the input. I don't see why koch should be that much harder

Chris Jester-Young

Oh, all right. :-)

Eelvex

13:41

What do you think about the following winning condition "closest match of username and language used"?

JB

14:30

Huh?

Eelvex

15:44

@fR0DDY: so "1232112321" is not ok, right?

fR0DDY

@Eelvex No

It should be "1231 12321"

It can However be "12321 12321 "

@All We need more questions :)

I hardly see any programming puzzles on this site.

Eelvex

@fR0DDY: thx... It would considerably shorten my code if it was ok. :)

We do need more questions.

mootinator

18:52

Nice userscript :)

George Edison

19:18

@mootinator: Thanks.

Is anyone using v0.31?

FUZxxl

19:59

Hi all!

Anybody out there?

mootinator

:/

George Edison

I'm here.

FUZxxl

;)

Can anybody tell me, whether my solution to codegolf.stackexchange.com/questions/996/huffman-golfing is correct?

0

Q: Huffman golfing

Write a filter that converts text from standard input to a representation of its Huffman tree on standard output. you're free to consider newlines or not output format is free, as long as it's some human-readable encoding of a tree. s-exps, ascii-art and .png, all good. RPN, .dot, I'll smile ...

code-golf binary-tree filter huffman

mootinator

@GeorgeEdison I assume I am.

George Edison

20:21

Have you tried the new style?

mootinator

I have not yet.

George Edison

It's under Script Settings->Options.

FUZxxl

21:09

good night.

Yes. Brought it down to 223 chars ;)

import List;data T=Char:=Int|N T T Int;t=i.sortBy((.g).(compare.g))

g(_:=a)=a;g(N _ _ a)=a;i(a:b:x)=t$N a b(g a+g b):x;i[a]=a

main=interact$s.t.map(\x->x!!0:=length x).group.sort

s(N a b )='(':s a++s b++")";s(x:=)=show x

mootinator

@GeorgeEdison Looks cool, aside from the questions being unreadable.

George Edison

23:15

@mootinator: I know... it's still a work in progress.

Is that looking better?

mootinator

Definitely, nicer contrast :)

George Edison

Still more work to do (have a look at the comments), but anyway...

Eelvex

Very nice

I would prefer the background a little toned down, though.

But cool...

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