The Nineteenth Byte

ETHproductions

20:00

we're literally on opposite sides of the world then

primo

thailand

ETHproductions

east coast US

primo

would have been my guess ;)

ETHproductions

together we've got the code golf world covered 24/7 :-)

primo

anyone know any good haskell tutorials? >_<

ETHproductions

20:02

ok, my sad attempt to generalize the 2-through-61 solution brought me up to 55 from 38

FrownyFrog

Wise man's haskell, don’t know about good, it’s new

primo

got it, thanks

tomorrow's reading

Pavel

@primo yo

sleep

primo

i'm going, really

Zacharý

Isn't Learn you a Haskell supposedly decent? Or am I mistaken?

Pavel

20:08

Learn you a Haskell is awesome

FrownyFrog

currying is the hard part, the rest is even worse

Pavel

Really?

ETHproductions

I should learn Haskell, I think I would like it a lot

FrownyFrog

pointfree.io is the greatest

Pavel

You had trouble with currying?

Zacharý

20:15

f(x,y)=f(x)(y) done.

[or whatever syntax the language uses]

Pavel

I'm more of an F# guy anyway

Zacharý

APL can be used functionally, but not really in a functionally functional way. (It doesn't work that well for it, but it can be used)

BMO

@primo I learned w/ the book Haskell - the craft of functional programming

flawr

also get programming in haskell

BMO

@Zacharý A lot of people use this and say it's rather good, yes

Zacharý

20:19

Good. Not totally oblivious :)

flawr

@ETHproductions YES

Pavel

@ETHproductions fsharpforfunandprofit.com

flawr

@primo @ETHproductions We have a Haskell chatroom: chat.stackexchange.com/rooms/66515/of-monads-and-men

Of Monads and Men

For discussion about, learning of and golfing in Haskell codeg...

ETHproductions

Sweet! I'm busy with Julia atm but I may hop in in a bit

BMO

The best way probably is to get GHCi up and running and using the :t command :D

flawr

20:21

^ this

(and the :i command, and the :r command)

ETHproductions

(I've just realized how "I'm busy with Julia" must sound to a non-programmer...)

17

BMO

^ this

(but maybe after :t)

Does anyone know Standard ML?

Zacharý

Or one could say the same thing about any namey-languages (Alice, Ada, Julia, there's gotta be more that I'm forgetting)

BMO

@Zacharý Haskell?

FrownyFrog

Miranda

ETHproductions

20:26

@primo there's no construct for reduce or anything else like that, right?

Zacharý

Oh.Forgot that was his first name.

But who's named Haskell nowadays?

BMO

Probably quite a rarity nowadays

Adám

@BMO Having four programming "things" named after you is pretty unique.

flawr

My future dog, if I ever get one :)

Zacharý

@Adám Four? Haskell and Currying, what else?

Adám

20:27

@Zacharý Brook and Curry.

Zacharý

@Adám Those are languages, right?

Adám

@Zacharý Yes.

Zacharý

(In that case, add Brook to the list)

BMO

@Zacharý Curry-Howard isomorphism too

@Adám true

Adám

@BMO And Curry's Paradox, but those are not strictly "programming things"

flawr

20:30

He's got even food named after him

Zacharý

I assume that was sarcasm, no?

BMO

@Adám Yeah, the paradox less so. But the isomorphism can be useful in CS

FrownyFrog

@Zacharý if it was true, it would be mentioned sooner

Adám

I wonder if Alexa, Siri, Cortana, and Bixby are falling in popularity as baby names. Of course, having twins/triplets/quadruplets with those names would be cute, if impractical…

ETHproductions

TIL about Bixby

Pavel

20:35

Same

BMO

Lol, @primo wanting to learn Haskell but beating me by 27 bytes -.-

2

Adám

This Sunday in a London bus, I overheard a mother get her daughter's attention with Alexa! ¯\_⁽⍤⁾_/¯

New Sandboxed Posts

0

A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

Minimal Substring Lookup Table A fairly common component of code golf challenges is taking input as a string, and finding the index of that string within an array. A common way to golf that action is to instead store a substring of each item in the array, and take the same substring of the input...

Zacharý

@Pavel Same

Adám

At least Microsoft and Samsung chose very rare names, but why did Apple and Amazon choose such popular names‽

wizzwizz4

20:42

@Adám So people would associate those things with them.

Apple managed to get Newton on their side!

And Amazon managed to get an entire river!

flawr

@BMO I don't even know where to start D:

BMO

@flawr GHCi :P

Adám

@wizzwizz4 And Google got Google — which is probably the most recognised word in computing.

wizzwizz4

@Adám That's only because they used to be a good search engine.

As much as I hate to say it... Google earned their name.

flawr

@BMO Do you use some high precision arithmetic? Or do you have some digit-by-digit algorithm?

BMO

20:49

@flawr Using Integer

flawr

hm, I was just digging through Rational

Adám

@wizzwizz4 Genericization is the indication of ultimate success — though it may well lead to economic failure.

flawr

haha it is kind of ironic that the class Fractional has a function pi

wizzwizz4

@Adám I kind of hope so.

Google's... well, I don't really know.

Google's complicated.

BMO

@flawr What‽

wizzwizz4

20:52

On the one hand, it's full of the smartest people in the world building brilliant things to solve problems. But on the other, it's a ruthless corporation that crushes everything in its path and makes the web worse for it.

BMO

@flawr Not of much help though, only instances are Double and Float ^^

flawr

@BMO well with Flaoting: hackage.haskell.org/package/base-4.12.0.0/docs/…

wizzwizz4

@BMO You missed a chance to use an interrobang‽

BMO

@wizzwizz4 fixed.

Zacharý

@wizzwizz4 Hello Adám.

BMO

20:53

@Zacharý Is it part of the APL-keyboard?

wizzwizz4

@BMO You beat me to it. I've forgotten how to type it.

Adám

@Zacharý What, me‽

wizzwizz4

@Zacharý I'm not... I don't even know APL!

Zacharý

@BMO I strongly associate the interrobang with Adám.

@wizzwizz4 See the above.

wizzwizz4

@Zacharý Pffft! Adám hasn't even used one in a Stack Overflow question title.

Adám

20:55

No. But I really like to use it, but only for purely practical reasons, so only when technically correct, i.e. irony or rhetoric.

wizzwizz4

(I mean, it's not usually appropriate to do so, but still.)

Adám

@wizzwizz4 I can fix that for you.

Zacharý

@flawr, as a random quesetion: how many languages do you speak?

flawr

@Zacharý programming languages?

wizzwizz4

@Adám I know about good ol' boxy, that does something to the arguments of a monad. Other than that, I've no clue.

> arguments of a monad

Never mind; let's make that an unqualified "I've no clue."

Zacharý

20:57

@flawr Both, how about that. How many computer languages do you program, and how many human languages do you speak?

flawr

@Zacharý I'd argue programming languages are human, at least human-made:)

Adám

@wizzwizz4 You're always welcome to take a stroll in the APL Orchard — where APLers grow.

flawr

well "real-life" languages are about 3.5

Zacharý

@flawr And what are they?

Adám

@flawr Programming or human-human voice com?

2

flawr

20:58

prgoramming langauges maybe about 7, but I think I keep forgetting stuff

@Adám human-human-jiggly-air-molecules-languages

wizzwizz4

@Adám I've got to learn useless stuff to pass exams, so I don't have time to learn another language at the moment. But I'll drop in there again once I've got time. I really enjoy your lessons!

Skidsdev

"Real" languages: 1 (English)

flawr

@Zacharý english, french, german and then some strange stuff you find in my country:)

Zacharý

@flawr By "strange" ... I assume you mean Romansh? Or Swiss German?

wizzwizz4

@Skidsdev No, English is definitely esoteric.

BMO

21:00

@flawr that would be French

flawr

@BMO XD

Skidsdev

Programming languages: 10 (C#, Java, JavaScript, Python, PHP, C, ASM, Braingolf, Brainflump, LMBM) Might be forgetting a couple

flawr

@Zacharý nope, just some swiss german dialects

Skidsdev

@flawr FLemmish?

Adám

@flawr @Zacharý Must be Romansh as per in the middle of, but not in the EU

Skidsdev

21:01

oh

Adám

@flawr I guess I was wrong.

Zacharý

Swiss German is indeed weird.

@Skidsdev That's Belgium.

Skidsdev

I didn't know what country he was from

Pretty sure "swiss german" is to german what Flemmish is to Dutch

Adám

CMP: How many human-human voice coms are you comfortable in?

Skidsdev

@Adám 1

BMO

21:02

@Zacharý You're Swiss, too?

AdmBorkBork

@Adám I'm a USian, so 1, 'murrican

Skidsdev

ALso I would argue the correct term for a "human-human voice coms" language is "Natural Language"

BMO

@Adám 4

Skidsdev

NatLang and ProgLang

Zacharý

@BMO No (I wish though). I just like linguistics and when I was comparing German sentences to their Swiss German counterpart... I was like WTF?!!

flawr

21:03

I think this is a natural reaction

Zacharý

@Adám 1 if you don't count Esperanto, 2 if you do.

Skidsdev

oh wait does murican count? 3 then: British English, Canadian English, US English

flawr

@Skidsdev no australian? or doesn't that count as english anymore?

Adám

@Skidsdev Esparanto, Volapük, Modern Hebrew, New Norwegian, and Interlingua are not natural.

Skidsdev

@flawr Even aussies don't truly understand Australian English

flawr

21:04

@Adám are these languages you do speak?

BMO

@Adám Lojban, too

Skidsdev

@Adám From a computer science point of view they are. A Program designed to parse and understand the meaning behind Esparanto text would still be called a Natural Language Parser

Also you forgot Klingon

Luis Mendo

@Adám If that means languages, 3

Adám

@flawr Of those, only Modern Hebrew. I know four truly natural ones too.

Zacharý

@Adám Thank god. Volap*ko estas malbona.

Adám

21:06

@BMO @Skidsdev It wasn't meant as an exhaustive list.

dzaima

@Adám 2

Zacharý

And if fractional knowledge counts: somewhere in the range of 1 to 2 or 2 to 3, depending on Esperanto's eligibility (my French is not that great)

flawr

@LuisMendo what other languages do you speak? (Matlab does not count)

Adám

@Skidsdev Hm, what about a traditional mathematical notation parser?

Luis Mendo

@flawr Spanish (native), English (fluent), Italian (not so fluent but I make do)

Zacharý

21:10

@Adám Parsing sins alone is insane, let alone all those summations and limits.

flawr

@LuisMendo oh cool! unfortunately I never learned italian (so far)

Adám

@Zacharý not to mention multiplication and division.

Zacharý

@flawr Half of a country's languages is not bad!

caird coinheringaahing

@Adám 2, assuming that means normal, spoken languages

Luis Mendo

@flawr Is it widespread in Switzerland, or concentrated in some areas?

Zacharý

21:11

@LuisMendo Concentrated, but not as much as the other one (Romansh). If I remember correctly, that is.

flawr

@LuisMendo well it is the official language in Ticino but they actually speak Ticinese :)

BMO

@Zacharý Romansh is split into two different regions, but yeah they are a minority

Luis Mendo

@flawr Heh

Zacharý

@BMO Thought it was just Grisons. Minority is a bit of an understatement, from what I understand.

Luis Mendo

@Zacharý So four langs in Switzerland? Interesting. I thought it was 3

BMO

21:13

@Zacharý Yes it is quite an understatement ^^

flawr

@Zacharý I don't even really understand all swiss german dialects :D

Luis Mendo

:-D

Nor do I understand that Italian dialect you linked

flawr

I don't know how close it is to italian, but from what I've heard there can be quite some discrepancies. (Mainly because this area used to be quite secluded.)

caird coinheringaahing

CMP: Do you often/regularly listen to music not in your native language?

Pavel

Yes

Luis Mendo

21:15

All the time (English)

Skidsdev

No

FrownyFrog

exclusively

Adám

@cairdcoinheringaahing div-by-zero error

flawr

yeah pretty much exclusively

dzaima

@cairdcoinheringaahing I never listen to music in latvian

Luis Mendo

21:15

^^^ Haha

Pavel

Fun fact: rap gets 20x more awful if you can understand the words

Skidsdev

Most music I listen to isn't in any language

@Pavel Actually the few times I've heard french hip hop I quite liked it

Zacharý

@cairdcoinheringaahing I literally have Il Clom Dallas Muntognas on loop right now.

flawr

@Pavel so does metal

caird coinheringaahing

@dzaima But...

Skidsdev

21:16

Again most of the metal I listen to has no language

caird coinheringaahing

Its relaxing apparantly

Skidsdev

What language is this

Pavel

I listen to like German electro rap

flawr

@Skidsdev I'm actually not so sure about this, what do you think?

caird coinheringaahing

@Skidsdev Not sure, but I quite like it :P

Luis Mendo

21:18

@flawr Oh my. Almost worse than this

flawr

@LuisMendo I love that!!!

Skidsdev

@flawr not my kind of metal

dzaima

@cairdcoinheringaahing people can write whatever they want on the internet you know. and really I'm not anywhere near a regular latvian (e.g. i know english and don't know russian)

Zacharý

@Adám How would that be a div-by-zero error? No music at all?

flawr

@LuisMendo I haven't listended to OMG for quite a while, thanks for reminding:)

wizzwizz4

21:19

@Zacharý It's not that unrealistic.

Skidsdev

@Zacharý Surely the formula would be Music listened / Music not in native language

wizzwizz4

I don't listen to music.

Adám

@Zacharý Yes.

wizzwizz4

@Skidsdev Other way around.

Luis Mendo

@flawr OMG meaning...?

Zacharý

21:20

@Adám 1=0÷0 :)

AdmBorkBork

@cairdcoinheringaahing I've recently started getting into Swedish death metal, so, kinda?

caird coinheringaahing

@LuisMendo He's not that bad of a singer :P

Try is quite a good song

wizzwizz4

Alternatively, it's the reciprocal of the proportion of time spent listening to non-native music.

flawr

@LuisMendo OMG:)

Luis Mendo

@cairdcoinheringaahing Not bad, I admit. Just not my taste

wizzwizz4

21:20

@Zacharý No, please don't do that.

Adám

@Zacharý Defined as such in APL, but for an actual proportion answer, it isn't meaningful.

Zacharý

@wizzwizz4 (He's an employee at Dyalog, it's fine, I had to somehow insert a reference.)

Luis Mendo

@flawr Gloomy indeed

Adám

@Zacharý Also, 0÷0 is indeterminate in Dyalog APL without context.

flawr

@LuisMendo ah sorry, I thought it was you that recommended this

It was some other SE chat aquaintance

Luis Mendo

21:21

Haha, no

flawr

(@AlexA.)

wizzwizz4

(3-3)=0
(3-3)/0=1
(3/0)-(3/0)=1
ZDE-ZDE=1
ZDE!=ZDE

AdmBorkBork

Actually, most (almost all?) music I listen to isn't from the US.

Skidsdev

I suppose a small portion of the music I listen to is japanese

Luis Mendo

@flawr I recommended Rob Scallon. And Michael Lemmo (probably more than once)

Skidsdev

21:22

but that's because one of my favourite musicians is japanese, and most of his music is lyric-less

flawr

hehe yep:)

Luis Mendo

Or you recommended Scallon

I'm not sure

:-)

Zacharý

Well, answering always does indeed have meaning. Same with never. If you never listen to any music, you never listen to any music in your native language. However, you never listen to any music that is not in your native language either. Degenerate cases are weird.

Skidsdev

I can recommend Scallon

Adám

@wizzwizz4 Uh, you can't split (3-3)/0 as that would be dividing non-zero by zero.

Zacharý

21:23

Then 0-0

Then 1-1=1

Skidsdev

@flawr on the topic of metal and metal-related sounds, thoughts?

FrownyFrog

@Zacharý wait it’s not like J?

i had no idea

wizzwizz4

@Zacharý I tried.

FrownyFrog

I know it’s the Pony way

flawr

@LuisMendo we sure talked about him a few times:)

Adám

21:25

@FrownyFrog Most APLs have 1=0÷0. J has 0=0÷0. Dyalog APL lets you choose.

flawr

@Skidsdev is that even metal? sounds very... electronic?

Skidsdev

@flawr Not really, but it's metal-esque

Zacharý

@BMO I'm foolishly trying to learn Romansh. My thoughts: WHY AREN'T THERE DOCUMENTATIONS FOR NATURAL LANGUAGES?!

Luis Mendo

Hey, there is :-)

Grammar books

AdmBorkBork

Merriam-Webster

Zacharý

21:28

@LuisMendo You try to find one on Romansh, see how you fare.

flawr

@Skidsdev It would certainly take some getting used to, I've never listened to anything that is like this. The closest might be the soundtrack from the movie Hanna, by the chemical brothers.

AdmBorkBork

AMA Manual of Style

Zacharý

@LuisMendo There what is?

El'endia Starman

@cairdcoinheringaahing Sometimes. I think I know a few words of about half a dozen languages due to songs. German, Japanese, Dutch, Hebrew, made-up languages (like Sun and Moon by Two Steps from Hell), etc...

Skidsdev

@flawr if yu haven't already, watch Mick Gordon's GDC talk on the music of DOOM, the man's a genius

flawr

21:29

@Zacharý there is a dictionary for the "official" rumansh: pledarigrond.ch/rumantschgrischun

BMO

@Zacharý I doubt it, they're trying hard not to let it die

Luis Mendo

@Zacharý There is documentation. But yes, probably not for all langs

Zacharý

I don't speak German or Italian, that's the hardest part ...

DJMcMayhem

@LuisMendo I think I recommended Rob Scallon to you :P

He's awesome

FrownyFrog

petting zoos are now illegal in Russia

flawr

21:31

@FrownyFrog now the animals in the zoos can pet you?

3

BMO

@Zacharý French? grisun.ch/produkt/dictionnaire-romanche-francais

DJMcMayhem

@flawr You most listen to very different metal than I do

Zacharý

@BMO Ah, thanks!

flawr

@DJMcMayhem I don't think what I've posted is representative of the metal I do listen to more regularly:)

BMO

Are you seriously trying to learn it?

Veskah

21:33

If I could speak gravel, I'd like Metal more

wizzwizz4

@flawr The USSR collapsed a while ago.

Adám

My at-home language has almost no online representation. ⍨ At least Romansh can use the .ch TLD…

DJMcMayhem

@flawr What is representative of the metal you listen to?

Luis Mendo

@DJMcMayhem Ah, yes, I think it was you. Awesome indeed! Have you checked Michael Lemmo

flawr

@Adám what do you speak at home?

Adám

21:34

@flawr Yiddish.

Veskah

@flawr Probably APL

14

FlipTack

french rap is the absolute bomb

flawr

@Adám oh cool! I think I've heard that there are two quite different languages under that name, is that true?

DJMcMayhem

@LuisMendo That's really cool. I like how it's not ridiculously complicated. It makes me want to learn that

Although the harmonics might be a bit challenging

Zacharý

@BMO Not super-seriously, but somewhat so.I like learning languages occasionally (even if there's barely any practical usage)

flawr

21:36

@DJMcMayhem do you know Woods of Ypres?

DJMcMayhem

Nope

BMO

@Zacharý That's pretty cool

Adám

@flawr It used to be a dialect continuum (like many lanuages had/have) but now it is basically split into two surviving distinct dialects. They are mostly just pronunciation and vocabulary differences. The written form is identical.

BMO

And you're guaranteed that there is no practical use to it, somewhat like esolangs :)

Luis Mendo

@DJMcMayhem This one is even better. Hard to believe there is no delay effect involved (LOL the video comments)

Zacharý

21:38

(No, that's Esperanto, to be precise, that has no practical usage. Romansh is more like APL than Jelly in that respect.)

flawr

@DJMcMayhem here then also year of no light and stuff like that:)

@LuisMendo I thought you were referring to this :D

Luis Mendo

@flawr Yes, the comment perfectly applies to that one too :-) One of the first videos of Scallon I saw. Very cool

flawr

@Adám I know an american who does speak yiddish, and I could understand quite a bit using swiss german (and vice versa:)

Adám

@flawr Yes, it is maybe even more similar to Swiss German and Pennsylvania Dutch than German German.

DJMcMayhem

@flawr Same haha

Adám

21:43

@flawr I once asked for directions on the street in München, and I don't think the person I asked even realised I didn't speak any dialect of German. Except if you count Yiddish as such, of course.

flawr

@Adám you should try it in switzerland :)

Veskah

My biggest mistake was somehow convincing little old Mexican women I spoke fluent Spanish

DJMcMayhem

@LuisMendo That's insane

Adám

If you want an easy human spoken language to learn, Yiddish is super-easy. I went from basically nothing to conversation-able in two-three weeks (of deep immersion). The written language on the other hand…

Veskah

The only recourse was to smile and nod

flawr

21:46

@Adám does it have its own alphabet?

Zacharý

@Adám Hey, at least the written language is an alphabet ... somehow.

Adám

@flawr I'd love to. I've spent less than 2 hours in Switzerland to change planes. But I'd love to go back.

DJMcMayhem

I really like the pick in thumb and index and pluck with 2/3/4 technique

Adám

@flawr It uses the Hebrew abjad characters as its alphabet.

flawr

@Adám how much related is yiddish itself to hebrew?

Zacharý

21:48

None.

Literally different language families.

BMO

@flawr If they don't understand him they will mistake him for a guy from Valais

Zacharý

(Of course, there are probably borrowed words)

Adám

@flawr About as much as English is to Gaelic/Celtic.

flawr

@BMO haha sure :D

Zacharý

@Adám More so. Celtic and English are both Indo-European, whereas Yiddish is Indo-European (Germanic, specifically) and Hebrew is Semetic.

Adám

21:49

@Zacharý Why?

Zacharý

^^

flawr

@DJMcMayhem do you play guitar too?

DJMcMayhem

@flawr I thought I did before watching the Lemmo Demo D':

Now I'm not so sure

On a more serious note, Yes I do. I play piano and guitar. I'd say I'm good at piano and OK-ish at guitar.

flawr

@DJMcMayhem nice!

Quintec

I’ve alwats wanted to learn guitar

DJMcMayhem

21:54

@flawr Do you play guitar?

Quintec

i play piano and viola instead

Adám

@Zacharý OK, but they are from far root branches. Yiddish borrows loads of words and phrases from Hebrew. Modern Hebrew borrows quite a bit from Yiddish too, so much so that some consider Modern Hebrew hybrid Indo-European.

flawr

@DJMcMayhem well I know some chords, but I'd love to learn it a little bit better

Zacharý

@BMO It also works as a language which I can mutter things under my breath with no one understanding what I'm saying :)

flawr

@Quintec take the viola and hold it horizontally :P

DJMcMayhem

21:56

@Quintec That's a good starting point. I played piano long before I picked up a guitar, and it's a great foundation since presumably you already know note names/rhythm/some basic theory/most importantly, the correct way to practice

BMO

@Zacharý :D

Quintec

Believe it or not guitar is about two times bigger xD

Zacharý

So, English's relation with French taken to the extreme?

Adám

@Zacharý Something like that.

flawr

@Quintec well in this case I refuse to believe that XD

DJMcMayhem

21:56

I've noticed that learning a bunch of instruments is similar to learning a bunch of programming languages. The first one is hard. The second one is also kinda hard. The third one is easier. And each one after that is easier.

Quintec

@DJMcMayhem until you try to learn jelly

Adám

@DJMcMayhem Same for human languages.

flawr

@Quintec and haskell XD

DJMcMayhem

Because eventually you get to a point where you're learning (music|programming) and so the instrument|language you happen to be using doesn't matter as much because there are similar concepts underneath

Quintec

The human language equivalent is chinese, I suppose (I wouldn’t know since I am chinese and fluent lol)

DJMcMayhem

21:57

@Adám Maybe it's just me, but human languages are way harder to learn

Quintec

Imagine being born fluent in Jelly

Doorknob

@Quintec hey same

Adám

Well if you know related languages/instruments, it is much easier. Like learning Viola if you know Violin and Cello, or learning Italian if you know Spanish and French. I suspect learning Jelly isn't so hard if you know K and J.

flawr

2019: Introducing the PPCG Orchestra.

Veskah

Shoot, I wish I was currently submerged in Jelly. For personal reasons, mind you

Adám

21:59

@Quintec I'm trying to get my kids a head start in APL.

Quintec

@Doorknob hey and you play chess don’t you

Zacharý

@DJMcMayhem Depends on prior exposure. It might be easier to learn English for a native Scots speaker than to learn Prolog for a C++ programmer. Maybe for a Frisian speaker as well, but IDK there.

Of Monads and Men

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