The Nineteenth Byte

ASCII-only

00:00

yeah, widening casts

Downgoat

Int -> UInt isn't widening though

ASCII-only

well imo, if the result is a UInt and you have an Int you should implicitly cast.

but also emit a warning if warning threshold is at high enough level

Downgoat

let's say I have a func amountOfGoats() -> UInt and let numGoats: Int = amountOfGoats()

so that should work but give warn?

ASCII-only

yes, depending on user's warning preferences

ASCII-only

00:14

@Quintec 7!?

ASCII-only

00:38

@Downgoat ok let's say i had a bad idea and am trying to make a language with a lot of pattern matching. would there be a simple way to resolve things that makes sense? need to consider 1. pattern length, 2. how late the pattern is declared and 3. how specific the types of the arguments are

Downgoat

@ASCII-only depends how lenient you want to be with types, for VSL I've limited the complexity of pattern matching so you dont have like O(n^6) expression resolution

ASCII-only

hmmmmm. assuming infinite time, how would you do it

Downgoat

@ASCII-only using contraint negotiate algorithm

ASCII-only

00:54

???

Nathan Merrill

01:38

So, network boot is a thing: Why can't I install linux over the net (without a private server)?

(Maybe I can, but I haven't found it)

Like: it can't be the bandwidth, because these servers are already hosting ISO files anyways. I doubt it really taxes their CPU. I also doubt I'm the first one to have this idea

Zacharý

Which language is this for?

Veskah

02:29

Wonder if codegolf.meta.stackexchange.com/questions/16966/… got any more traction behind it. Seems like an okay idea to me.

Anonymous

04:39

@NathanMerrill Mainly because there's not a need/desire for it

Downgoat

05:29

@ASCII-only what part specifically is there difficult in implement rn

Nathan Merrill

@Mego wouldn't this be way more convenient than any other form of boot?

like, no need to make a USB or CD. You can install it just by typing in a URL

Anonymous

@NathanMerrill It also requires the user to trust the server

Nathan Merrill

isn't that true anyways?

I guess there are shas

Anonymous

For network book? Yeah, but usually the server is run by your IT admin, so trust is a bit easier there

Nathan Merrill

no, I mean for a standard ISO download

Anonymous

05:41

Personally, I would never in a million years trust a server that I am not in complete control of to install an OS on my machines

Anonymous

@NathanMerrill Network boot uses TFTP, which is built on top of UDP. File transfer of multiple gigs would be ripe for failure with no error correction.

Nathan Merrill

I mean, TCP is also built on UDP, but I get your point :)

Anonymous

@NathanMerrill That could not be any more false

Nathan Merrill

I don't really get the trust thing, because you are trusting the server when you download the ISO

@Mego wait, it is?

am I getting my acronyms mixed up?

Anonymous

@NathanMerrill You are trusting the server when you download the ISO. You can then verify it with a variety of hashes, and also inspect its contents, before installing it. With network boot, you don't get a chance to verify/inspect anything before it gets loaded.

Anonymous

05:45

@NathanMerrill TCP and UDP are two different transport layer protocols

Nathan Merrill

I know...I'm remembering two protocols where the reliable one was built on the unreliable one

Anonymous

TCP is like introducing yourself to a stranger, shaking hands, and having a polite back-and-forth conversation where you and the stranger repeat yourselves when one of you mishears something. UDP is two people with megaphones shouting at each other, hopefully-not-incoherently.

Nathan Merrill

right, UDP is simple, unreliable messages. TCP organizes them so they don't yell over each other

that said, I'm not finding what I'm looking for on google, so I'm trying to remember where I read about this to find what I'm thinking about

ngn

@NathanMerrill you're thinking of ip - both tcp and udp run on top of it

Anonymous

@ngn Correct

Nathan Merrill

05:51

huh. I think I have to blame schooling for this, because I had no idea that IP was a protocol

Anonymous

What did you think the P stood for? :P

Nathan Merrill

because I'm pretty sure they said that TCP was built on UDP because "TCP is built on IP" doesn't ring any bells

I knew it meant "protocol", but it was like saying "this is the address to perform your protocol on"

I didn't think it was an actual protocol itself

"IP Address" = "Internet protocol address" = "The address to send your protocols"

Anonymous

The communication protocol suite used by a large majority of the internet is called TCP/IP (TCP-over-IP) - using IP for the internet layer and TCP for the transport layer

Nathan Merrill

send isn't the right word, but I have no idea what is

Anonymous

IP address more correctly means "the address used by the internet protocol"

Anonymous

05:59

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/… is a pretty good read for the basic details of how the intertubes work

caird coinheringaahing

09:11

@ASCII-only A five hour drive from where I am right now, could take me to Scotland going north, or France/Belgium going south. To not leave the country after that just seems ridiculous

ASCII-only

09:53

@cairdcoinheringaahing yeah european countries are just tiny, that's why the EU is a thing :P

wat

@NathanMerrill tcp and udp are different protocols built over ip - tcp for reliable and udp for unreliable transmission

@NathanMerrill then why is it not just "IPA" - why abbreviate such a weird portion of it

@Mego ouch. why did they decide on tftp :/

@Downgoat ast resolution - longer vs shorter? especially if the shorter one may have stricter types i.e. may match better? and also... given a list of tokens for an entire file (well, an entire line/statement i guess), where to even start pattern matching

ngn

@ASCII-only why isn't your nick ASCIIO? ;)

Neil

11:11

@ASCII-only codegolf.stackexchange.com/a/175904/17602 another byte bites the dust, only 3 bytes behind Bubblegum now!

Quintec

13:23

Hello

ETHproductions

15:42

> Evaluation metric: “compare youroutput.txt to trustedoutput.txt”.
> Solution: “delete trustedoutput.txt, output nothing”

@mınxomaτ best one in the list xD

ETHproductions

16:05

For 30 more hilarious anecdotes, there's this paper

sounds like we should be using digital evolution for bug-testing general programs :)

> At that point, the physicists ceased the collaboration, possibly because they were more interested in a problem solver than an “edge case detector.”

lirtosiast

18:13

Question about my question: should the empty sting be valid input? I think it makes for a slightly better challenge, but I'm not sure and it breaks the only existing answer

Laikoni

18:36

@lirtosiast I don't think it would make the challenge better (though of course I'm slightly biased). The interesting part is to find an algorithm which solves the core challenge, i.e. here the formatting part, adding of implicit zeros and special treatment of 1. The empty string is always an edge case. Different algorithms which handle the core challenge perfectly may produce different results (or even errors) when confronted with the empty string.

(In my implementation a 0 is returned, because that's how the implicit zeros are realized.)

To fix my solution I'd need to add a wrapper in the vein of if input="" then "", else <old_answer>, which is not very interesting.

lirtosiast

Yeah I see your argument

I haven't been around for a while, so I don't know the current community opinion on edge cases

Laikoni

Note that I'm not per se against edge cases - the special treatment of 1 is also an edge case, but it makes perfect sense regarding the motivation of the challenge.

lirtosiast

if other languages/approaches would necessarily need to special-case it it's obviously not interesting

Laikoni

10

A: Things to avoid when writing challenges

Adding special cases for the sake of completeness This is a generalization of "complicated" number types, and is similar in scope to adding unnecessary fluff. What I mean by this is that many challenges will try to make the problem well-defined for all possible inputs, when the challenge would ...

New Meta Posts

0

Q: kolmogorov-complexity tag ask and answers can not produce points and score as math or number

kolmogorov-complexity is not as a mathematics problem The way of see generate from the set of problem tag as kolmogorov-complexity is anti programming... one algorithm in mathematics is something ok; but kolmogorov-complexity problem goes again the right way of see programming so can not have th...

discussion

DJMcMayhem

19:16

@cairdcoinheringaahing I could take a five hour drive without leaving the state

quartata

i could take a twelve hour drive without leaving the state

DJMcMayhem

I guess if I went to the far opposite corner, it would be more like 8

@quartata Texans could totally trump that

Or Alaskans

quartata

Oh yeah, I know

i should clarify: i have taken a twelve hour drive without leaving the state

Dennis

@quartata Me too. If I go in circles.

quartata

a 2 hour flight + a 5 hour drive is probably just enough to get out of the state though

fly to SF then drive north or some such

@Dennis our highways may not be great but theyre not that bad

DJMcMayhem

19:22

@quartata LAX -> SLC is 1:50...

2 hour flight would be more than enough to get out

lirtosiast

@Dennis What do you think of the empty string as input in my pythlike question?

DJMcMayhem

The longest intrastate drive I've taken (or probably ever will since there's nothing in the corners of colo) is Grand Junction to Denver(ish) at almost 5 hours.

quartata

@DJMcMayhem im also counting time spent sitting in the plane doing nothing

Dennis

@lirtosiast I'm not familiar with that question, but edge cases are almost never fun.

quartata

although youre right, getting out to the east is easy

DJMcMayhem

19:27

@quartata Or west if you got a boat :P

quartata

i was exploiting calis major axis

lirtosiast

ok I'll make input nonempty

quartata

plus theres nothing to do out east other than drive by el centro and laugh

lirtosiast

@Laikoni Rolled back

quartata

nocal is actually interesting

DJMcMayhem

19:29

Northern California is gorgeous.

I had a vacation a few months ago where I went to northern cali/Jedediah Smith State Park

quartata

nocal be like

<Half-Life 1 Announcer Voice> maintained at a pleasant 68 degrees at all times

actually its 48 in humboldt right now but i had to make the joke

Downgoat

19:46

@quartata did you have a destination in mind when you started? O_o

quartata

yes

but it involved going through LA at 5

New Main Posts

0

Q: ask user to enter 10 numbers. Array

I need code that ask user to enter their card number(has to be 10 numbers). if he entered numbers more or less than 10. the program will ask him to write it again(loop). how I can do this using array and flag! in c ++ language .

c

quartata

so

that was part of it

caird coinheringaahing

@DJMcMayhem I remember driving over night from Cornwall to Inverness, which is the longest drive I've ever been on

Erik the Outgolfer

hm... does this look like a dupe?

DJMcMayhem

19:56

The longest drive I've ever been on was northern Idaho (basically Canada) to Denver. 17 hours. I've done that probably at least half a dozen times

lirtosiast

@EriktheOutgolfer I don't think so. It's been in the sandbox for 3 years, but before posting it I searched again.

Erik the Outgolfer

oh, because it does feel like a dupe at first glance...

quartata

@DJMcMayhem sounds "fun"

lirtosiast

Just because it's a simple challenge that should have been asked already?

It's possible I missed something

the word "cyclic" is used a lot in unrelated questions

New Main Posts

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Q: Is this quadrilateral cyclic?

In mathematics, a cyclic quadrilateral is one whose vertices all lie on the same circle. In other words, every vertex is on the circumcircle of the other three. For more information, see the MathWorld article. Examples These quadrilaterals are cyclic: This trapezoid is not cyclic. (Images...

code-golf math geometry

Erik the Outgolfer

20:05

@lirtosiast btw, are quaternions also fine? ;-)

:P

lirtosiast

Uh

Erik the Outgolfer

NARS2000 supports them natively, for reference

lirtosiast

You mean one quaternion for the four x coordinates and one for y coordinates?

Erik the Outgolfer

btw, that's a reference to a recent challenge :P

yeah, I do mean that, although I was kinda kidding :P

lirtosiast

Yes I read that challenge

Well x and y coordinate lists are supported by default, and quaternions should be supported if x and y coordinate lists are

So yes

I would like to see someone do the challenge with only quaternion math

Erik the Outgolfer

20:10

that's... really unlikely

I don't think they're practical anyway :P

lirtosiast

Yeah it seems like completely the wrong format

Erik the Outgolfer

also... not sure how "in counterclockwise order" is any different from "in order", is a specific order guaranteed?

lirtosiast

Counterclockwise means you always turn counterclockwise when traveling between the points in the given order

Erik the Outgolfer

so it's guaranteed that we don't get e.g. [0,1],[1,1],[1,0],[0,0]? (bigger y goes up, bigger x goes right)

lirtosiast

Yep

New Main Posts

21:19

0

Q: Dyadic Transpose

code-golf array-manipulation APL's ⍉ symbol, when called monadically, causes the axes of an array to be reversed: the kth axis becomes the last-but-kth. However, the dyadic function is more interesting: the dimensions of an array are permuted according to its left argument. For example, 3 1 2⍉A ...

code-golf array-manipulation

Erik the Outgolfer

@NewMainPosts no, I'm not going to post ⍉

caird coinheringaahing

21:43

@lirtosiast Are you clearing out your old Sandbox challenges?

lirtosiast

@cairdcoinheringaahing Are you prewriting solutions for my old Sandbox challenges now?

caird coinheringaahing

@lirtosiast No, its just you've been posting a lot of questions since you "rejoined" and I seem to remember you saying something along those lines

lirtosiast

I am trying to clear them out

either post, or delete from sandbox if they're low-quality/dupe

New Main Posts

23:20

0

Q: Drawing the Peano curve

Introduction In geometry, the Peano curve is the first example of a space-filling curve to be discovered, by Giuseppe Peano in 1890. Peano's curve is a surjective, continuous function from the unit interval onto the unit square, however it is not injective. Peano was motivated by an earlier resu...

ascii-art graphical-output geometry animation fractal

feersum

23:58

I was about to ask why we can't more easily construct such a curve by splitting into 2x2 squares rather than 3x3, but apparently that's the same as a Hilbert curve.

Does a Peano curve have any interesting properties that a Hilbert curve doesn't?

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