The Nineteenth Byte

quartata

00:12

actually upon further inspection i think it might be a dog

FreezePhoenix

Can you not see the teeth?

quartata

although the mouth is from a cat

FreezePhoenix

i.sstatic.net/wC2ng.jpg?s=512&g=1

quartata

not entirely convinced theyre from the same photo, the fur around the mouth is brighter

I don't know

FreezePhoenix

Do you not see the shadows from it's legs!

Pavel

00:17

I've seen cats that look like that.

FreezePhoenix

That would be why the front of the cat is brighter!

Conor O'Brien

BTW, our q/d ratio is only 3.7...

Pavel

I'm not saying "ratio" doesn't technically work, but "rate" might be a better term.

And yes, rather low.

Conor O'Brien

sorry, *our q/d rations are only 3.7

2

FreezePhoenix

^ Da heck

Pavel

00:21

@FreezePhoenix No, see, two carets point two messages up. One caret points one message up.

Zacharý

The problem: we eventually ran out of questions that new people find "inviting".

At least that's what I think

Pavel

Nah, I think there are still plenty of ideas out there. Interest just kinda faded.

Zacharý

That too

Hey, @FreezePhoenix: would it be okay for Brainfuck's output to be ****NIARB?

Anyone know of a Befunge-93 interpreter WITHOUT the restriction on size? ...

Conor O'Brien

00:45

what's the usual restriction?

Zacharý

Too small for polyglotting...

Conor O'Brien

that's a useful answer

80x25

quirkster.com/iano/js/befunge.html

that should work

FreezePhoenix

@Zacharý UH... yes that makes sense

Conor O'Brien

you're opening a can of worms by allowing that IMO

FreezePhoenix

@ConorO'Brien did you get my ping?

Conor O'Brien

00:51

which

about the curry?

I merged your PR

FreezePhoenix

^^ yes

^^ Thanks!

30 mins ago, by Pavel

@FreezePhoenix No, see, two carets point two messages up. One caret points one message up.

Zacharý

@FreezePhoenix Don't allow that, actually. Let me try to unscrew the challenge (finding a good befunge-93 interpreter)

FreezePhoenix

^ Why would that be so?

Zacharý

only 25 lines and 80 columns supported in Befunge-93

Conor O'Brien

@Zacharý see this message:

5 mins ago, by Conor O'Brien

http://www.quirkster.com/iano/js/befunge.html

I'm pretty sure this doesn't have a finite codebox

Zacharý

00:55

Doesn't work... it reflects on ;

Conor O'Brien

@FreezePhoenix do you allow interpreters made after the challenge was posted

Zacharý

I found one..

0/0 again

Anyone know how to pass input to this befunge interpreter?

Conor O'Brien

Try it online!

Zacharý

Sorry, I was not thinking right: I'm trying to get rid of a "What do you want 0/0 to be?"

Conor O'Brien

Try it online!

Zacharý

01:08

still in the output

Conor O'Brien

oh

that wasn't teh question :P

Zacharý

:P

Major rewrite is probably in order then :/

Blue

Oh, does anyone know if it's possible to get webhooks for repos you don't own on GitHub? I'd like a http request whenever a specific one gets a push

FreezePhoenix

@ConorO'Brien NO

Zacharý

@FreezePhoenix why the caps.

FreezePhoenix

01:16

because it's a definite answer in definite terms

Conor O'Brien

even if the interpreter isn't designed for the challenge?

FreezePhoenix

@ConorO'Brien Now how would we tell that :P

@ConorO'Brien Tell you what. I'll look at your interpreter

Conor O'Brien

@FreezePhoenix that's a standard phrasing for PPCG IIRC

@FreezePhoenix and the question was purely hypothetical. I was planning on writing a befunge 93 interpreter without a codebox restriction if it came to it

Zacharý

I don't need you to do that.

Conor O'Brien

> if it came to it

FreezePhoenix

01:20

@ConorO'Brien You'd have to prove that it wouldn't interpret for the question

Zacharý

Would having the user provide non-empty unused input be a standard loophole?

Conor O'Brien

I believe it would be

quartata

i think it depends

CSS, for instance, often needs an initial "input" to begin running

there's a ruling about that specifically

FreezePhoenix

@quartata the style markup?

quartata

yeah

FreezePhoenix

01:24

I dunno how you run that

Zacharý

I hate yes

I just crashed my computer piping it to befunge.

I'll try a major rewrite of the code tomorrow.

FreezePhoenix

@Zacharý that means 'assume Y for all queries'

Not very smart

Zacharý

@FreezePhoenix The yes command...

Isn't that the one that just prints something forever?

FreezePhoenix

Oh... I forgot :P yep thats what it does

I was thinking of the --yes flag

Zacharý

YES indeed.

FreezePhoenix

01:35

Stop making terrible puns

@ConorO'Brien Meaning you can't challenge people to a fight? :P

Conor O'Brien

wait why did that get 7 stars I thought I'd be alone on that one lol

Zacharý

@FreezePhoenix never.

FreezePhoenix

@ConorO'Brien And now you have an 8th :)

Jo King

@Zacharý What about the FBBI interpreter?

Zacharý

It implements ; from Befunge-98.

Jo King

01:40

Oh. The MTFI one?

Zacharý

.code.tio:9: only 25 lines and 80 columns supported in Befunge-93

Jo King

And I guess PyFunge is why you wanted to know about unused input...

Zacharý

Yeeeppp

Jo King

Wow, there are 16 different versions of Befunge in the TIO interpreter. That seems excessive

FreezePhoenix

@JoKing there are over 23 versions of Befunge

Cat Wizard

01:48

does anyone know of a way I could make a SEDE across all sites?

Jo King

@FreezePhoenix Which is also excessive

Jo King

02:03

@Zacharý Sorta relevant: If a language cannot suppress a user prompt, the solution may expect this prompt to return empty. from here

Zacharý

I have working code (not in Somme, that's easy to fix)... but it adds too many bytes, and prints "****NIARB"...

Jo King

@Zacharý but the language name is brainfuck...

Zacharý

exactly my point...

case-insensitivity and censoring... I won't post it anyways

@DJMcMayhem, are you the BrainFlak Guy?

Jo King

You could try using BF-crunch to generate the code

Cat Wizard

I heard the words Brain-Flak

Jo King

02:10

me2

Cat Wizard

I can do KC for brain-flak. Give me a word and I will make it.

Zacharý

@CatWizard Oh, it was you, never mind

Jo King

@CatWizard Oh yeah, let's see if my meta-golfer can beat your solution :P

Zacharý

@CatWizard "kalf-niarb", or any variation in case

Cat Wizard

I will beat the machine

DJMcMayhem

02:12

@Zacharý One of them, not the primary one :P

Zacharý

@FreezePhoenix flashback to polyglot challenge

If worst comes to worst, we can revive the polyglot gods, but I don't expect that for a while (Chance and stasoid)

Cat Wizard

02:28

@Zacharý 116 bytes

Zacharý

that ... won't work. I'll save it for later when the 30% gets bigger.

But that is amazing

Cat Wizard

114

Jo King

Very nice. The shortest my meta-golfer gets is 124 bytes

Zacharý

~80 is where 30% stands

Cat Wizard

112

Oh yeah I forgot about case insensitivity

@JoKing JoKing, I've noticed your meta-golfer is very bad at forwarding.

That 124 byte could be forwarded a bit.

Zacharý

02:35

Now, try without the -...

Cat Wizard

Oh boy.

Zacharý

I could probably just add another befunge in there,

Cat Wizard

Klein could be added easily.

Jo King

@CatWizard Yeah, there's a few tricks that could make it more efficient. I'll put it on my list

Cat Wizard

I could write you a forwarder, I'd probably want to do it in Haskell though.

Zacharý

02:41

dafuq is klein?

Cat Wizard

https://tio.run/##bVXrdtpGEP5tvUL/jIWPJWGkNSZNGnOpbSCpUwg@B@I6MQnRZYU2lrQ60sqG5vIIfYA@Xl/EnZWAEDucI7E7O/Pt3L6RY2fB/b1rC@iAyz2qCJ67ASQpi0WmKBVgPix5DrbngZ3O84iivAaRfUMhy1MKgkPEPeYvQTBuJUvIOIgA8URAl2hCgcVumHvUw4UUQsjiG4W6AQczBnWvruLVpa2iDE5fv3xz@rI/O3/d61@168rZ20l/3Fb39DsXTLclXTRUxc9jF01iCO14nttzqhuflZ0CU63A3o8oFuzVa7BXIIGzFDRTlZ3Rm8nFm4kEdjADCI2eHKkIvdO/uuh3J/2ePCsR0cUvKb2Vh5iNaxSU1irstnGzNlDhfVMGGCs7K1f6i4S6AiPf6NRgzgWs7aXiggmoKzs@U3YeBI/36w9COagb0osS3YTpxxXS9KNMbpHKzrp2X2X1AiGS7JiQORNB7lguj8gkXZ6LUYxVoESkSyb4ek0piexM0JTcpXaS0DRDhHWGQcXECRXU4vJirXw/w@BVL/LATPO46KPtwzGPIooKae4sgfBEkExKyreVOo8…

Zacharý

Wrong link?

Cat Wizard

Nevermind, I forgot how Klein worked. Doesn't work in Klein

@Zacharý github.com/Wheatwizard/Klein

Zacharý

04:16

You forgot how your own language worked?

Cat Wizard

I remembered, but yes I breifly had a miscons=ception.

Zacharý

NameError: ception is undefined

Bubbler

Isn't it time to start a new Language of the Month?

Conor O'Brien

^

DLosc

@EriktheOutgolfer I think it should be Japt too, especially since it's leading by 1 vote now.

I also think I don't want to be the one who has to post the new LotM every time, so maybe a meta question to clarify a procedure is in order.

Jo King

04:41

@DLosc Whoever suggested the language sets it up?

DLosc

@JoKing Yeah, my first idea was that it should be the person who wrote the suggestion, and if a day or so goes by without any activity, then anybody can do it.

New Sandboxed Posts

05:24

0

A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

Quine Relay! answer-chaining quine A quine relay of order \$n\$ is a series of programs \$P_1\dots P_n\$ in distinct languages such that each program \$P_i\$ outputs \$P_{i+1}\$ and \$P_n\$ outputs \$P_1\$. For example, a 2-quine relay can be seen here: Ruby → Perl 6: This Ruby program: $><<...

Destructible Lemon

idea for a challenge: check if a player of gess can win that turn in a position given chessvariants.com/crossover.dir/gess.html

Newly Featured Questions

08:10

88

Q: Simulate the Universe!

One nice property of a Turing-complete language is that it can be used to write any program, up to and including the simulation of the entire Universe. Your job is to do exactly that: write a program which simulates the Universe. Note: although I don't doubt you'll be able to accomplish this ...

Adám

09:26

CMC: Given a Boolean list, return whether it is all true AND length>0. E.g. [true,false] → false. [true,true] → true. [true] → true. [] → false.

Erik the Outgolfer

@DLosc I just pinged you because that's how it usually happens :p

also, Japt was already leading some time ago

18 hours ago, by Erik the Outgolfer

...and an upvote has been suddenly removed...

@Adám Jelly, 1 byte: Ȧ

Adám

@EriktheOutgolfer OK, sure, now do it in some other languages.

Erik the Outgolfer

09:52

@Adám it should be 2 bytes in Dyalog, no?

in Python it's not so trivial, but still easy :P

and should also be 1 byte in an 05AB1E/Jelly polyglot too (P)

user202729

@EriktheOutgolfer But different codepage...

Erik the Outgolfer

the byte should be the same

Adám

@EriktheOutgolfer Huh, how?

Erik the Outgolfer

@Adám ×⌿?

Adám

@EriktheOutgolfer 1=×⌿⍬

Erik the Outgolfer

09:59

@Adám hm

Adám

@EriktheOutgolfer and so too for ∧/ ;-)

Erik the Outgolfer

@Adám and... ⌊⌿⍬ also fails

Adám

@EriktheOutgolfer Yeah, that gives ∞ (more or less).

Fatalize

@Adám Brachylog, 4 bytes: dȮh1

nevermind it's wrong

lul

Adám

@EriktheOutgolfer Best I've done so far is ∧/⊢,⊃.

Fatalize

10:03

or d[1]

Adám

@Fatalize What does that mean?

Erik the Outgolfer

@Adám and not ≢⌊∧⌿? :P

Adám

@EriktheOutgolfer Ooh, clever.

Erik the Outgolfer

@Adám or even ≢⌊⌊⌿, as ⌊⌿⍬ does what ⌈⌿⍬ should do imho and vice versa

(I guess it depends on how you think about it)

Adám

@EriktheOutgolfer Why do you think ⌊⌿⍬ and ⌈⌿⍬ are swapped?

@EriktheOutgolfer Btw, ⌊ and ∧ and × runs the same code when arguments are Boolean.

Erik the Outgolfer

10:08

@Adám well, while ⌊⌿⍬ makes sense in that there's no element in there to "restrict" the minimum, so the maximum possible value is there instead, on the other side, it's immediately apparent that ⌊⌿⍬ asks for a "minimum" after all

@Adám yeah, so it can also be ≢∧∧⌿

Adám

@EriktheOutgolfer But -∞ isn't in ⍬.

@EriktheOutgolfer No, that'll give 2 on 1 1.

Erik the Outgolfer

@Adám ah yeah

(duh I'm not used to it being LCM so much)

Adám

@EriktheOutgolfer Yeah, that pairing was wrong, imho.

Fatalize

@Adám d[1] -> the input with all duplicates removed is the list [1]

Erik the Outgolfer

@Adám well, we have 3 different logical AND functions anyway, but I agree that there should have been one which errors on non-boolean arguments

that is, otherwise people try to debug and a "why the HECK does a BOOLEAN function return STUFF?" is heard every now and then :P

Adám

10:24

@EriktheOutgolfer If they had asked me, I would have extended with:

∧←×
∨←1-(1-⊣)×(1-⊢)
⍲←1-∧
⍱←(1-⊣)×(1-⊢)
~←-+¯1*>⍨

Erik the Outgolfer

@Adám wouldn't ∧ and × be the same though

Adám

@EriktheOutgolfer Yes. That could have saved a glyph.

Erik the Outgolfer

@Adám yeah, but what else could ∧ represent

Adám

@EriktheOutgolfer Dunno. Is it really so bad that two primitives do the same sometimes?

Erik the Outgolfer

@Adám nah, never complained about that

although if they always do the same then I think it might be a problem

Adám

10:33

@EriktheOutgolfer We could have then (and still could…) define ∧Y as ≢⌊∧/

Erik the Outgolfer

@Adám like, "any and all"? why not just ∧/?

Adám

@EriktheOutgolfer Because that should give the identity element of ∧.

@EriktheOutgolfer And then, by extension and logic, ⍲Y could be ~∧Y.

But what should ∨Y and ⍱Y be?

Erik the Outgolfer

@Adám hm, I wonder what would be appropriate for basically all primitives which can only be dyadic as well as the one(s? →...) that can only be monadic...avoiding glyph proliferation, right?

Adám

@EriktheOutgolfer There are not so many, only the Booleans, the relational, and ∩ ⊥ ⊤ f⌺. Btw, f\ f⍀ f.g ∘.g are also strictly monadic.

FreezePhoenix

LOL

-6

A: Community Promotion Ads - 2018

Adám

10:44

@FreezePhoenix Hey, the "official" one has even lower score.

Erik the Outgolfer

@Adám uh, by f⌺ you mean f⌺N, no? also, f.g and ∘.g look pretty dyadic to me

Adám

@EriktheOutgolfer Yeah, that was one messed up summary.

FreezePhoenix

@Adám How many ads have you posted or edited... I'm at 3 for you and counting :P

Well thats broken:

PhiNotPi

@FreezePhoenix What caused the change in opinion? From +10 last year to -6.

FreezePhoenix

Probably because the app got made at some point

Erik the Outgolfer

10:47

did it

Adám

@EriktheOutgolfer Strictly monadic: f\ f⍀ f⌺Y → (well, and niladic). Strictly dyadic: ∩ ⊥ ⊤ ←, relational, Boolean.

Erik the Outgolfer

@Adám f⌺Y is in both lists

:P

Adám

@FreezePhoenix 5

FreezePhoenix

@Adám O_O

Neil

@Adám JavaScript, 20 bytes: a=>!!eval(a.join`&`)

FreezePhoenix

10:50

@Adám Hmm, how do I install that browser bar

Adám

@FreezePhoenix Which language do you want?

FreezePhoenix

Javascript

hehehe not that I need it. I do most of my programming in a text editor without syntax highlighting, so...

Adám

@FreezePhoenix I mean, you want a language bar for a specific language. Which language is that?

FreezePhoenix

:45435242 When restating an opinion that bye the looks of it may have changed, yes.

@Adám ECMAScript8

Adám

@EriktheOutgolfer ⊥Y and ⊤Y should be 2∘⊥ and 2∘⊥⍣¯1, imho.

@FreezePhoenix Uh, does your keyboard not have all the characters that JS uses?

FreezePhoenix

10:55

@Adám Oh so that's what thats for :P i thought you would just type in a unicode point. Yes, it has all of them.

Adám

@EriktheOutgolfer X f⌺ Y could conveniently let each element of X correspond to a dimension, indicating 0:abyss 1:join ¯1:twist-join.

Erik the Outgolfer

@Adám not ⊢⊥⍨1+1⌈⌈/ for ⊥Y?

Adám

@EriktheOutgolfer Nah, seems a bit too specific. Never needed that except when golfing. And what would ⊤Y be then?

Erik the Outgolfer

@Adám hm

Adám

@EriktheOutgolfer Dyadic f\ (and maybe f⍀ too) should be ∘.f and monadic f.g should be generalised determinant.

Erik the Outgolfer

10:59

what...escape hell it seems

@Adám and the determinant would be -.+?

or +.×?

I think determinant needs 3 functions

Adám

@EriktheOutgolfer -.×. +.× is the permanent.

Erik the Outgolfer

@Adám oh, the + would be implicit then

Adám

11:17

@EriktheOutgolfer What +? See NARS and Iverson.

Erik the Outgolfer

@Adám for a 3×3 matrix M, det(M) = det(M ₁₁ M ₂₁; M ₁₂ M ₂₂) × M ₃₃ - det(M ₁₁ M ₃₁; M ₁₂ M ₃₂) × M ₂₃ + det(M ₂₁ M ₃₁; M ₂₂ M ₃₂) × M ₁₃

that + over there is what I'm talking about

Adám

@EriktheOutgolfer Ah, but that's really an alternating sum, which in APL is just -/

Erik the Outgolfer

@Adám hm, so it would resemble dyadic .

Adám

@EriktheOutgolfer Makes sense, no?

Erik the Outgolfer

@Adám well, yeah

Adám

11:27

@EriktheOutgolfer det M is

(((M₁₁×(M₂₂×M₃₃))-(M₁₁×(M₃₂×M₂₃)))-(((M₃₁×(M₁₂×M₂₃))-(M₃₁×(M₂₂×M₁₃)))-((M₂₁×(M₃‌₂×M₁₃))-(M₂₁×(M₁₂×M₃₃)))))

@EriktheOutgolfer Easier to read:

(M₁₁M₂₂M₃₃-M₁₁M₃₂M₂₃)-(M₃₁M₁₂M₂₃-M₃₁M₂₂M₁₃)-(M₂₁M₃₂M₁₃-M₂₁M₁₂M₃₃)

using implicit multiplication before everything, but APL's right-associative -.

Ugh, NARS has )LAOD and )SVAE. ⍨

Erik the Outgolfer

uh, ⌽⊖ have Identity element 0...?

Adám

@EriktheOutgolfer Yes, of course, because 0⌽Y and 0⊖Y are no-ops.

Erik the Outgolfer

@Adám and I like how <≤=>≥ also have identity elements

I presume they're boolean values

and, well, =/⍬ must be true, so ≤/⍬ and ≥/⍬ must also be

ok Table 19 really makes you think

Adám

11:42

@EriktheOutgolfer What do you mean by must be true?

Erik the Outgolfer

@Adám like, aren't all elements of an empty array equal?

Adám

@EriktheOutgolfer Sure, but that's not what =/ checks.

Erik the Outgolfer

@Adám yeah, it checks if it's in the form of 1 1 1 1...X X

Adám

@EriktheOutgolfer What?

Erik the Outgolfer

@Adám e.g. =/1 1 1 2 2 should be 1

likewise for =/5 5⍴1 1 1 2 2

Adám

11:45

@EriktheOutgolfer Ok, but 1 = =/0 1 2

Erik the Outgolfer

@Adám hm, you can say that too

some stuff is best to not be reduced :P

Adám

@EriktheOutgolfer Rather, X ≡ 1=X and X ≡ 0≠X and X ≡ 1≥X and X ≡ 0≤X and X ≡ 0>X and X ≡ 0<X (for Boolean X).

Those 0s and 1s are the (left-)identity elements.

New Main Posts

13:34

-1

Q: Xfactor code function

We have a library supplies the function: BOOL HasXFactor(unsigned int n); HasXfactor returns TRUE if n has the XFactor mathematical property, FALSE if not - we do not know what the XFACTOR mathematical property is, nor do we care. we have the task of finding how many numbers from 0 to MAX_UIN...

programming-puzzle

Pavel

15:08

SUSE Linux Sold for $2.5B - news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17441171

Zacharý

15:21

.___.

Poke

how many active users does ppcg have on any given day

user202729

@NewMainPosts Missing fastest-code tag, although the description includes info for how code is measured.

Although I think I will downvote it anyway. It's trivial, just let each processor handle 1/k of the values.

Erik the Outgolfer

15:37

uh, is that really the problem

> we do not know what the XFACTOR mathematical property is, nor do we care.

New Meta Posts

15:57

0

Q: trying to get the (new) topbar fixed

Since we got our own design, I try to reestablish that my topbar is fixed; but I can´t seem to get it right; and I can´t think of anything else than @-moz-document domain(stackexchange.com) { .top-bar { position:fixed } } in userContent.css, but that has no effect. Any idea how I can keep...

support

AdmBorkBork

@EriktheOutgolfer What's wrong with having a blackbox function?

Maybe I'm missing something.

Erik the Outgolfer

16:22

@AdmBorkBork I don't think that's a black box function...

> Since we got our own design

:/

AdmBorkBork

It's pretty much literally a black box function. You give it a number and it outputs true or false. The difference here is you know a little bit about the timing of it, because you know it's linear based on the size of the input.

Erik the Outgolfer

but it's not given to you, is it?

AdmBorkBork

That's the first line of the challenge

A library that defines a function

Erik the Outgolfer

looks more like OP has a hidden function on their PC than it being given as a black box function

AdmBorkBork

Now you're just arguing semantics. What's important is that there's some function, and it outputs true/false, and we only know what the timing is.

It's a real shame that the question was downvoted and deleted. It seems pretty interesting.

Cat Wizard

16:33

It's certainly not possible to do it any faster than to check all the instances

AdmBorkBork

That much is true. But given k processors, you can certainly do it faster than given 1 processor.

Cat Wizard

Yeah, you just perform the operations concurrently.

I think it was a super uninteresting question.

AdmBorkBork

It's basically a packing problem.

Erik the Outgolfer

also, is K given or not?

the solution is essentially just n % K

AdmBorkBork

hmm. I wonder if there's a more efficient algorithm. It feels like that should be beatable.

Erik the Outgolfer

16:41

might've been more interesting if processor speeds were given instead

AdmBorkBork

Meaning that the k processors aren't all equivalent?

Erik the Outgolfer

more like threads

we're not talking supercomputers :P

and maybe the concept being more generalized

like, we want ops 0..n to complete in order from 0 to n, and we want to assign each one to a thread

ATaco

17:02

Wait, you want each op to happen in series, but across multiple threads?

Theo

17:27

Holy shit there's a new @stasoid answer

We're on 212 languages

Anush

I just asked an algorithms questions on math.se if anyone is interested math.stackexchange.com/questions/2838751/…

Cat Wizard

17:57

How does one vote on a tag synonym?

DJMcMayhem

https://codegolf.stackexchange.com/tags/<tag>/synonyms?

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