The Nineteenth Byte

quartata

05:01

@Pavel I used to think this but lately I think Ruby does it better

Pavel

@quartata The actual syntax isn't what I was pointing to. In ruby, you can't directly interpolate a variable.

quartata

Well in Perl you can't directly interpolate an arbitrary expression

ETHproductions

The first language I really learned was Haxe which has "$var" as well, so I was surprised when I learned that JS and most other langs didn't support that

quartata

You have the ye olden @{[...]}

Pavel

@quartata Oh, I Perl 6, which has $(expression here)

quartata

05:04

Perl 6 isn't Perl

Pavel

sorry ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

@quartata Is "@{[2+2]}" actually a thing you do in Perl 5?

quartata

yes

Pavel

damn

quartata

You create an array then dereference it

Pavel

Also, the ye olden

quartata

05:09

There's a module that's much better though

PhiNotPi

~~daily~~ monthly music drop: soundcloud.com/phinotpi/harp01

quartata

@Pavel this is the one I remember: search.cpan.org/~mjd/Interpolation-0.53/Interpolation.pm

Cleaner, but probably slower since it works by tying a hash

I'd have to check

Pavel

Cool

quartata

Oh yeah definitely slower

Has to do an eval too, can't happen at parse

....I think it could be done better

Nevermind I probably can't, didn't see who wrote the module >_>

Pavel

@quartata Who is this guy?

quartata

05:23

He wrote Tie::File (one of Perl's killer features IMO) and possibly the best book on functional programming I have ever read

That book could convert even the most sinful of JS programmers

Pavel

@quartata Is JS the antithesis of Perl or something

quartata

technically Python is

but I'm more flexible minded

JS is more just Perl done wrong

Pavel

I can get behind that

Explains ==

Zacharý

PERL is Perl done wrong

PHP is just wrong though

quartata

technically all languages are just wrong versions of themselves

but seriously, you can get an electronic version of that book for free if I'm not mistaken

Zacharý

05:31

I hate Perl, by the way.

quartata

read it and tell me that Perl didn't do something right

it's 🔥

Zacharý

What book is it?

YEah, it should be BURNING in a STRAIGHT FIRE.

quartata

higher order Perl, I linked it above

Pavel

@quartata I'm a little on the fence about the type system

Zacharý

ANy time a language uses natural language terms, I run as fast as I can (J and Perl)

quartata

05:34

@Pavel we have function prototypes now which help

@Zacharý ...???

Pavel

Also, tio.run/##ZZBRdsQgCEX/XcXbRBfkGCaxNRrBtHb1KZjJdHp6/…

(The above should be viewed as an example of Perl's awesomeness)

Zacharý

@quartata Adverbs, Conjunctions, Gerunds, etc.

quartata

@Zacharý Perl has none of these things

That's J

Zacharý

Perl(6) gets a few things right: operators and grammars

quartata

don't take "developed by a linguist" too seriously

Pavel

05:35

From my limited exposure to Perl 5 and 6, I prefer Perl 6.

quartata

that book has an entire chapter dedicated to lexers and parsers btw

Zacharý

I definitely remember adverbs being a thing (maybe just the description and not the official term).

quartata

@Pavel I take it you've never benchmarked Perl 6 then. Cheddar was faster IIRC

@Zacharý they're really not. Adverbs in J are higher order functions, which all sane languages have

Pavel

@quartata I have. But I'm also not using Perl for anything even remotely performance-intensive.

Zacharý

Wait ... Perl was developed by a linguist?

quartata

05:37

I draw the line at 10 seconds for primes up to 1000

Zacharý

If it was ... maybe I shouldn't design a nonesolang. It'll end up a bodged mess like Perl

Pavel

$ time python -c 'for i in range(1000000):print(i)' > /dev/null
python3 -c 'for i in range(1000000):print(i)' > /dev/null  0.76s user 0.01s system 99% cpu 0.776 total
$ time perl6 -e 'for (1..1000000) { .say }' > /dev/null
perl6 -e 'for (1..1000000) { .say }' > /dev/null  6.96s user 0.50s system 99% cpu 7.528 total

@quartata That's actually... remarkably bad.

quartata

And Perl 6 is JIT'd

Pavel

Yep

Wow

quartata

Perl 5 trounces both in almost everything I've seen

Zacharý

05:41

Anybody still use Perl4?

Pavel

<-- doesn't remember how to iterate over a range in Perl 5

@Zacharý I hope not

quartata

Dunno how much of that is rakudo

ATaco

I never put the effort in to learn Perl, I probably should just so that I can know it.

quartata

@Pavel for $i (1..n) { ... }

Zacharý

@ATaco That is exactly how I am

I have Perl books that have gone untouched for a while

Pavel

05:42

$ time perl6 -e '0' 2> /dev/null
perl6 -e '0' 2> /dev/null  0.13s user 0.03s system 117% cpu 0.136 total

It's not startup time

quartata

Woops, forgot to say my $i for best practices

foreach is an alias for for btw

If you prefer the way that reads

Pavel

It's so much slower but for (1..1000000) { .say } looks so much cooler

Zacharý

Guess if you Program in Perl you make a lot of $, eh? And you get a lot of @s on twitter or something

quartata

The one thing about Ruby that annoys me more than anything else is that its lack of sigils makes it impossible to tell between variables and functions

which they then patched over by making everything a getter/setter with objects

Pavel

And here I thought sigils were just getting in the way

Zacharý

05:45

RUBY. Flippin' enforcin' namin' conventions

ATaco

And then there's Funky.

quartata

if you've done any Ruby, you know what I mean

Pavel

@quartata I have, but I don't.

Actually nvm

I do get it

quartata

e.g. print x could be print(x()) or print(x)

Er that was a bad example

Zacharý

@quartata D does that as well

ATaco

05:47

Funky allows you to do anything arbitrarily with indexing.

Because, that's always fun.

Zacharý

It's really annoying when you have a function object that you want to reference

quartata

No actually that example is right

Pavel

Yeah

quartata

@Zacharý that's why you have sigils. $ or @ for variables, & for functions. Modern Perl drops the & in almost all cases

Zacharý

I have to admit though, a.f is pretty golfy for f(a). (D)

Pavel

05:49

@quartata Since you're here and know perl, can I ask how to slurp ARGF into a string in an idiomatic way?

HyperNeutrino

adding if statements to proton took me about 50 seconds

Pavel

cool

next are loops?

Or unless statements.

ATaco

When statements!

Pavel

Oof

Zacharý

Until!

Pavel

05:51

@ATaco Imagine multithreading with when.

ATaco

Maybe Later :p

HyperNeutrino

if/else statements

ATaco

Implementing extra statements is real easy with funky's tokenizer!

"ifblock": "'if' expression exporblock elif?",

Zacharý

Jelly's is better :p

/s

ATaco

(Then you just need to implement ifblock in parse.Expression which takes the parsed block in a particular token datatype as an argument)

In Funky, this is:

parse.IfBlock = function(ifb, scope){
	var subScope = objects.newScope(scope);
	var exp = ifb.data[1].items[0];
	var todo = ifb.data[2].items[0];
	if(parse.Expression(exp, subScope)){
		return parse.ExpBlock(todo, scope, true);
	}else{
		if(ifb.data[3].count > 0){
			todo = ifb.data[3].items[0].data[1].items[0];
			return parse.ExpBlock(todo, subScope, true);
		}
	}
}

Pavel

05:59

CMP: Awfullest hack you can do in a major practical language

ATaco

Lua: Lua

When statements are also surprisingly easily implemented.

parse.WhenBlock = function(when, scope){
	var evnt = parse.Expression(when.data[1].items[0], scope);
	var todo = function(){
		var nScope = objects.newScope(scope);
		nScope.vars.arguments = objects.ListFromObject(arguments);
		parse.ExpBlock(when.data[2].items[0], nScope);
	}
	evnt.vars.hook(todo);
}

Esolanging Fruit

06:24

@Pavel Java lets you modify the integer cache

Though I'm not sure whether Java counts as "practical."

Pavel

@EsolangingFruit wait how

Esolanging Fruit

@Pavel I don't even know what this is doing

670

A: Write a program that makes 2 + 2 = 5

Java Reflection is indeed the right way to go with abusing Java... but you need to go deeper than just tweaking some values. import java.lang.reflect.Field; public class Main { public static void main(String[] args) throws Exception { Class cache = Integer.class.getDeclaredClasses...

Esolanging Fruit

06:51

This makes the most sense of anything ever

3

Unihedron

09:57

So, I have an idea for an optimization puzzle. What should I keep in mind when I define the scoring mechanism?

Fatalize

TIL americans tip their hairstylists

user202729

... I can't think of anything right now. Just sandbox it and see what people says.

Giuseppe

@Fatalize We tip pretty much everyone, though.

Fatalize

10:13

Do you tip at a fast food?

Giuseppe

Wow, no, I don't, and I'm pretty sure I've never seen an option to tip, even on the receipt/credit card reader.

Fatalize

Good, I didnt make anyone angry few months ago then

I tipped the taxi driver though, which seems to be the norm

Giuseppe

Yeah I always give them a dollar or two, depending on distance.

I pissed off a shuttle bus driver on my way to the airport by not tipping him; he stopped me and demanded a tip and then I got mad because it's a bit rude to do that. Luckily my wife had already tipped him so no harm done I suppose

New Main Posts

10:40

0

Q: Kolmogorov zipper

Here's a simple one: Output or display the following three lines of text, exactly as they are shown below. A trailing newline is accepted. bC#eF&hI)kL,nO/qR2tU5wX8z A!cD$fG'iJ*lM-oP0rS3uV6xY9 aB"dE%gH(jK+mN.pQ1sT4vW7yZ For the record, that block of text is the same as the one below, but wher...

New Sandboxed Posts

0

A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

Self-removing executable code-golf file-system In minimum bytes, implement an executable (script or ELF) that deletes itself when run, regardless of the assigned filename. Operating system is Linux Debian Stretch x86_64. The filename may be tricky (the program should handle long or unusual ch...

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