The Nineteenth Byte

@DJMcMayhem nitpick: eh, now it assumes every challenge has a brain-flak answer :P

Anonymous

(don't make me language-lawyer you into writing good specs)

Happy now?

Anonymous

No, but that has little to do with you :P

I am 10 rep from entering the first page of users when sorted by rep / all :)

7:01 PM

Did your wife find out you were on TNB again?

((((((()()()){}){}){}()){}){})(({})<>)<>{<>(({})[()])<>(({})[()])}<>{}

@DJMcMayhem that was my 1-100 code btw

Anonymous

@Christopher No, I slipped while working out this morning and slammed my shoulder into the ground :(

I might solve it in Brain-flak separately too.

@Mr.Xcoder nice going...

Conor O'Brien

@Mego ouch :/

I kinda learned a bit

7:02 PM

waits for Mr. Xcoder's Brain-Flak solution...

@Mego ow. I fell on the brick walkway this morning and did the same thing

Anonymous

But now the pain meds are kicking in, so I'm going to go lie down for a bit :)

@Mego o/

@Mego always good to get sleep :)

bye!

7:03 PM

@Mego Oof

I got a +5 for my 2 byte jelly answer on a challenge and spend forever on PLQ and will get <+5 for more work :|

Yay for PPCG voting culture

@EriktheOutgolfer No more waiting: ((()()()()()){})({({})({}[()])}{}){(({})[()])}(){}

(Try it online!)

I meant on the CnR :/

Golfed me

7:04 PM

Ah no...

now I can't crack it :-(

@EriktheOutgolfer Why'd I do that?

@Mr.Xcoder BTW, push(10) can be ((()()()()()){}) instead

i was going to crack it ::(

@DJMcMayhem Is there any script that compressed number literals for us?

And Thanks!

7:05 PM

And push(100) could be ((((((()()()){}){}){}()){}){}) for even less

@Mr.Xcoder yes

@Mr.Xcoder brain-flak.github.io/integer

@Mr.Xcoder brain-flak.github.io/integer

Danke!

Danke: dank but with class

Luis Mendo

7:06 PM

@flawr Hint: it could pass as a program in some code golf language

Ok, 46 bytes

Do we have a print all the numbers from 1 to N

@Mr.Xcoder how did you do it?

@Mr.Xcoder I've always wondered... Is that supposed to be said donk-uh, or donk-ay?

(I guess the 'uh' is really a schwa instead)

@DJMcMayhem day nkay

oh @Mr.Xcoder your solution was pretty clever

Thanks! :)

7:08 PM

My code originally did 100 to 0 but I had to swap it

New sequence idea: Fibbiprime

@DJMcMayhem I've always pronounced it this way

@Christopher that's as easy as {({}<>)<>} :P

@Mr.Xcoder OK, that's what I thought

like normal fibbi but instead of 1*2*3*...n it is 1*3*5*7...

Is that your voice?

7:10 PM

Yup

saves for NSA research

Not sure why NSA would ever look for me though :P

you know why

Thomas Ward

and so do they.

@Mr.Xcoder You don't need the () at the end

Conor O'Brien

7:12 PM

@Mr.Xcoder K (oK), 46 bytes

@DJMcMayhem Hm, Push-pop-redundancy?

@Mr.Xcoder Nope. Just an unused value

Or no... wait

yeah ^

() or [] outside of any other monads aren't needed

Not sure why I had it in the first place

7:13 PM

Since they're purely values, not functions

yeah

That's my favorite way to think about brain-flak: An atom is defined as a value, and a function

brb have to get water

I rolled out the snippet for TPLQ2

Some are purely functions (e.g. <>) and some are purely values (e.g. ())

7:14 PM

@DJMcMayhem It's like the nucleus and the electrons surrounding it :)

lol

I'm actually learning about that a lot right now. Taking Chem 101 in school

So far, it's been mostly talking about things like valence electrons

Wait, you're still in school?

College

That makes sense, ok

Thomas Ward

graduated college, so doesn't have to deal with school anymore

7:16 PM

Wait what

brb sandbox

If I am ever going to make another esolang, I'm going to name it Brain-Pain

I just had a new idea for a language that I'm super excited about

> Brain Brain Brain Brain-Pain the Esolang

(sung to the tune of Bill Nye the Science Guy)

Nope. This one will have no brains, and no flak-ing

tell me

7:18 PM

@NieDzejkob No worries on the edit. It was humorous but easily can be done without.

@Christopher I don't want to give away too much until I figure it out first, but the main idea is that the only usable memory is the IP

192.168.1.1?

And there will be no loops or conditionals :D

@DJMcMayhem why do you always make horrible ideas

Oh, instruction pointer.

7:22 PM

anyways gtg

bye o/

\o

@Christopher That's the best way to make languages :P

Background: I want to set a long-time objective of tracking a new hard badge. So CMP: Should I try Socratic (48 / 100) or Epic (35 / 50)?

@Mr.Xcoder Epic

I don't even have Disciplined yet ;-;

7:25 PM

Delete an answer at -3? Isn't that good?

No, delete an answer at +3

That one is Peer Pressure IIRC.

I don't have that one either :)

Again, I think it's good you don't have that

Sorry I "mis-faced" that message :P

Bah I made so many typos today

CMP: What is your favourite non-tag badge?

Populist

It's also quite difficult to get on PPCG

7:28 PM

Socratic, once I get it :P

Mine is either Convention, Sportsmanship or Outspoken

Probably great answer

It was tough to get, but I'm very proud of the answer that got it

@DJMcMayhem :/ RIP I don't have that, or Good Answer ಠ_ಠ

Talking about Great Answer, I am 2 upvotes away from having it.

CMP for non-Romanians: Did you go to school today?

Yes

7:30 PM

I didn't this week.

We have a 1-week break between semesters :)

@DJMcMayhem Socratic, once I get it before DJ does.

And CMP: What is favourite SE site that isn't PPCG?

@Mr.Xcoder Vi

@Mr.Xcoder To participate or to see the questions/answers?

There are other SE sites?

7:31 PM

Thanks to whomever brought me 1 upvote closer :)

@AdmBorkBork Not gonna happen :P

@Mr.Xcoder it's the end of the 2-week long winter break here

@cairdcoinheringaahing Either.

2

@Mr.Xcoder Puzzling

7:32 PM

That pretty much summarizes the PPCG experience

@Mr.Xcoder Congrats on your gold badge :P

@DJMcMayhem I've seen that too

Yay! Thank you all

@DJMcMayhem TL;DR

yeah that's what we call FGITW

(unless somebody downvotes before SE updates badges)

inb4 someone actually does that

7:34 PM

you have a code-golf gold badge...

cleares caches – spams badges tab

@EriktheOutgolfer I'm talking about Great Answer

@EriktheOutgolfer Dennis posted that months after...

Of course it didn't receive much attention

IMO it would've been better to suggest a golf instead but ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Yeah I thought so too. I was honestly surprised when I saw that he submitted an answer for such a minor golf... But of course that's up to him to decide, because it was a rather clever-ish golf (even though the outcome was just -1).

@Mr.Xcoder Math.SE and Puzzling.SE

@Mr.Xcoder MathOverflow. Some of the questions/answers are mindblowing

Yeah that too.

7:41 PM

And when I'll have more time for other SE sites (i.e When I get into highschool), I think I'll enjoy hanging around Physics.SE

Now I only have 1 answer there

@NieDzejkob It's a shame you can't upvote edits, the snippet for TPLQ looks amazing, thanks so much!

Abusing known instruction pointers FTW

Just golfed nearly a dozen bytes off my "Print The Stack Exchange Logo" answer

@Mego I fixed the startpoint package, you can run pip install startpoint now!

@cairdcoinheringaahing Wow, it really looks amazing! @NieDzejkob Very nice job

7:49 PM

@Οurous CC

Although, @NieDzejkob if you can (don't feel obligated to), could you try to add a way to sort the cracked answers by the person who cracked it? It would make it much easier to see which Robber wins.

8:00 PM

@Christopher Are you planning on adding more changes to pain-flak?

152 bytes to 144 bytes. \o/

I have like 3 challenges I could post today if I wanted to.

Beware of repcap

Q: Does anyone else feel really relaxed when listening to music from Star Wars?

A: No. I feel more relaxed listening to the OneShot OST

A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

8:07 PM

Not really

New Sandboxed Posts

0

Minimally sort a list into a matrix code-golf array-manipulation matrix Given an unsorted list of unique strictly positive integers, minimally sort it into a 2D matrix. The matrix is not necessarily square, but the input is guaranteed to form a non-jagged matrix. Minimize the dimensions of the ...

8:19 PM

@DJMcMayhem I may. Why?

@Christopher Because I want to add an endless bounty for this:

1 hour ago, by DJMcMayhem

CMC: Answer a challenge in pain-flak with less bytes than the shortest existing brain-flak answer on the same challenge

But I'm not sure how hard that would be to do, or what you want pain-flak to eventually be

Shame not many challanges can be done without input, and some need a larger than 1024 byte program.

looks harder

(The 1024 limit is the size of the RAM on the R16K1S60, and the ROM gets copied into RAM for execution)

Now where did I just hear about the R16K1S60 ...

@AdmBorkBork probably somewhere on powdertoy.co.uk or #powder on freenode. Or maybe LBPHacker mentioned it to you

Nope, nope, and nope.

8:29 PM

Huh

Me i guess. :P I've made two answers in it's ASM language now

I need to make a point to make a GIF of it printing the stack exchange favicon. It'll make it easier to see it works :P

Baader-Meinhof Phenomenon going on here, probably

Probably

@AdmBorkBork TIL

@AdmBorkBork Huh, so that actually has a name. Weird

And now, you'll encounter the name again tomorrow and go "Whoa."

8:44 PM

But yea, writing golf'd assembly for the R16K1S60 has been fun. Dunno if i'll do more, but the R16K1S60 is really intresting to golf for. Very flexible, even if it only has 1024 bytes of RAM total

anyboyd here have mathematica available to test smth?

TIO has it

oh TIL

Speaking of which, how did TIO get Mathematica?

^

8:46 PM

Is it the Pi version?

Probably the Pi version :P

@moonheart08 It is not

@PhiNotPi IIRC someone from mathematica offered it to dennis

oh neat

@PhiNotPi Wolfram Research reached out to Dennis. To date, we're not sure how Wolfram Research found out about TIO.

2

8:47 PM

hacker news?

I should write a R16K1S60 emulator. It's a simple machine, and it'd be good practice.

got quite popular after that

@moonheart08 Hi

@Pavel LOL

@Pavel How can you be sure some of the people who work there are not golfers? :P

8:48 PM

@totallyhuman wait, when did tio hit hn

a while ago

@moonheart08 They might be. It might also be Hacker News. I didn't say that's not how it happened, just that we don't know.

oh hey pavel I found you on hn lol

This?

presumably you're "pavelbr" at least

8:49 PM

@Riker o/

I also made my account at that time

figured as much, I think a couple other people might have also

Challenge I might post today: codegolf.meta.stackexchange.com/a/5790/2867

I'm just stalling on writing testcases.

Q: Flattened Spiral Permutation Index

^ looks great to me

New Main Posts

0

Context Consider square matrices with n columns and rows containing the first n^2 (i.e. n squared) positive integers, where n is odd. The elements of the matrices are arranged such that the integers 1 through n^2 are placed sequentially in a counterclockwise spiral starting at the center and ini...

0

Q: Deranged Rearangements

Your task is to write a computer program such that when it is cut up into lines every arrangement of lines will output a different number between 1 and n! (where n is the total number of lines). For example the python program print 1;""" print 2;""" Has two arrangements print 1;""" print 2;"...

code-challenge source-layout

9:08 PM

hey the PLQ hit HNQ

@Riker It has 82 answers already, I'm really not surprised :P

CMP: Should there ever be an accepted answer on a PPCG challenge?

Wheat Wizard

No

Poke

Anyone here use polyfill.io/v2/docs

No, but I'll do it anyway, because accepting answers gives me rep.

@cairdcoinheringaahing Depends on the tag

9:17 PM

I say yes, for challenges such as answer-chaining or cops-and-robbers

no

@Pavel ಠ_ಠ

@totallyhuman Here you go: ಠ_ಠ

@cairdcoinheringaahing on a language-specific or language-unrelated challenge if someone achieves the best score possible, then yes, otherwise (with other exceptions) no.

I think accepted answers are perfectly acceptable on king-of-the-hill

@DJMcMayhem only if there is a deadline though - Formic Functions current winner could still be overthrown

9:19 PM

I agree with @dzaima's criteria: If using a specific language gives you an advantage, then no, otherwise yes.

@dzaima OK, sure I hadn't thought of that. But what if the current winner was accepted until being overthrown?

I've stopped accepting answers

It feels like the challenge is over, so what's the point of answering it later? I've had challenges where a year later someone new answers it.

@DJMcMayhem then the accepted answer should be changed and the challenge author should learn a lesson.

Nowadays, I would use the accept feature iff: my challenge is a KOTH, my question is a "Help me golf this as much as possible" tips question or if my challenge is a CnR (Robbers' Thread)

DLosc

Speaking of overthrowing accepted answers--I just golfed 47 bytes off my Brain-Flak Classic interpreter by switching approaches. Take that, APL! (CC: @DJMcMayhem)

9:23 PM

@DLosc Cool! I know I just said I don't think there should be accepts for code-golf, but enjoy your nice juicy +15

(I think updating the accepted answer is different than accepting new answers)

(Which is why I haven't gone through all my old ones and unaccepted everything)

Poor ngn, losing 15 rep out of the blue like that :(

If it's been long enough, they won't lose the rep.

IIRC

Oh, and I'd use accept for rosetta-stone challenges

@AdmBorkBork Nope, they definitely will

^

9:28 PM

New strategy of never losing rep: accept an answer whenever you get downvoted /s

You'll need a ton of challenges for that to work

Or just never get downvoted.

If you really didn't want to lose rep from downvotes, you could delete any answer that got downvoted and have a massive storage of challenges to accept answers for

Assuming you don’t get downvoted too much, that shouldn’t be a problem

Oooh, that reminds me. Can we still add questions to the mod Q&A or is the time gone?

9:30 PM

@cairdcoinheringaahing What if that post also has upvotes

I've rarely been downvoted. The most recent I can recall was on Known Unknowns where for some reason there were several downvotes.

@cairdcoinheringaahing Long gone

@cairdcoinheringaahing Gone

You can, of course, just ask the candidates

Ninja’d because internet

9:30 PM

@Mr.Xcoder Ninja'd

Double ninja'd

@Pavel Ping all three here with the question?

@cairdcoinheringaahing Like Pavel said, I'm happy to answer any questions you have

Probably better in the election room though

@cairdcoinheringaahing No, in chat.stackexchange.com/rooms/72733/…

Ninja'd

Cue the TNB effect

It's cause I want to see the question! :)

9:33 PM

@AdmBorkBork From time to time, I get a random downvote. Looks like my Proton answers are extremely prone to being downvoted, for some reason. I guess someone hates Proton :P

I see 5~7 people who saw a link then just clicked :P

Οurous

9:51 PM

I wanted to see the answers.

@Mr.Xcoder I was expecting something like Bubblegum, but that looks like an actual potentially useful language, why would anyone downvote that?

Zacharý

ErikTheOutgolfer cracked MY post.

yes

10:33 PM

Hey y'all, I made another golfing language. codegolf.stackexchange.com/a/155291/527. I know we already had enough, but I did it anyway.

hey, that's not bad, maybe there's that one built-in which will unexpectedly solve a challenge one day in there!

it beats charcoal though :o

so far...

also who said we have enough golfing languages? ;~)

Proposal: internet-wide ban on golfing language development.

10:46 PM

Proposal: internet-wide ban on evolution prevention

It would just move to the dark web.

Eliminating golf language development is probably harder than eliminating polio.

well, continuous golfing language development means that things evolve over time, for example back in 2007 GolfScript was released and it was probably the golfiest language ever

now, more than 10 years after that, golfing languages have evolved, and will continue to evolve, since they want to beat each other in average performance

you won't have much of a chance to compete in GolfScript anymore

in front of gs2, Pyth, Jelly, 05AB1E, Charcoal, etc. GolfScript is like Java compared to other mainstream langauges

The 3+ letter built-ins in golfscript look so wasteful compared to the current state of the art

i'm not aware of a golfing language that has a step-through debugger

so maybe that's something

11:03 PM

What do people think about this sandboxed challenge of mine? codegolf.meta.stackexchange.com/a/11041/2867

Dennis

@EriktheOutgolfer For some tasks. GolfScript had a freakishly small amount of built-ins, so it didn't stand a chance against J and APL in some challenges.

@recursive I was going to make one for Element.

But an overwhelming lack of demand caused the project to grind to a halt.

Ha, everything in my language had zero demand, as far as I know.

@PhiNotPi I particularly enjoy iterated ascii art like this.

Anybody got a good title idea?

It's kind of similar to this codegolf.stackexchange.com/questions/40104/sierpinski-carpets

Destructible Lemon

11:18 PM

I think that the ordering of iso 216 paper series (generalised for more than just the a-h series) might be interesting

@recursive Do you think it is too similar?

Destructible Lemon

uh, the swedish extension series, i mean, i guess

@PhiNotPi No, I think it can stand on its own.

@PhiNotPi what was it originally supposed to represent?

@DLosc APL is not a golfing language.

11:21 PM

also I think what you're describing is a lindenmayer system (the general recursive description)

@Adám I've only ever seen people using it for golfing, so it must be a golfing language :)

It's been literally a year, I'm not sure anymore. But it had something to do with connecting together a large grid of two types of resisters so that the overall resistance of the grid approaches some particular function.

@PhiNotPi you could name it ABAAABBB

Οurous

@Adám I choose to read that in the same way I read "WINE is not an emulator"

@Dennis Did you golf in J before making Jelly?

@flawr :-) But you've only ever seen APL on PPCG, so no wonder. Does this look golfed to you?

11:25 PM

@Adám oh, I didn't know that there is anything other than those cryptic symbols :D

I assume ⍝ is a comment, right?

@Adám I honestly can't tell if there's .NET in there. There's a lot of stuff that looks like it might be OOP, but I'm not sure.

@PhiNotPi N=2 looks like an upside down Pi

@flawr Yes. It doesn't occur in golfing either. It is a lamp (filament) or bulb or LED symbol to enlighten you.

@Pavel It is all OOP,. In fact the entire file defines a single class. No .NET though, as it is cross-platform code.

I interpreted it as a sideways squeezed-together "co"

You type it with APL-Comma. Commant.

11:28 PM

@Pavel Ah, you've studied my mnemonic layout.

@Adám If by "studied" you mean "glanced at twice", then yes. I'm surprised at how effective it is.

I now know how to type more APL symbols than I know the function of, which is a first.

@Pavel Which ones? Most of the mnemonics also hint at the function.

@Adám ⍒,⍋, ⌹, ⌺, ⍤, ↑, ⌷, ∨, ∧

A little part of me is tempted to take Element and write an unnecessarily powerful IDE / debugging tool for it.

@cairdcoinheringaahing that would be lame. I'll look for chart libraries

11:38 PM

@Pavel They are all covered in the lessons.

Anyway, gotta go. G'nite ○/