The Nineteenth Byte

Manish Kundu

18:00

@moonheart08 irc bot on what server?

moonheart08

@ManishKundu Freenode. ##lazy-valoran

Bot is asdfbot

label a -- goto a

@Mr.Xcoder Because Python is weird. Really a ton of stuff is completly different in it! If you say that PHP is weird because of this, then you are wrong, because that's why Python is weird!

moonheart08

(We have like a dozen bots in that channel, so saying the name is essential lol)

Manish Kundu

I run a java irc bot since I can't host mirc bots :p

Thinking about switching it to Python

label a -- goto a

@Mr.Xcoder Also, about your import problem

moonheart08

18:01

tip: Don't write an IRC bot in Node.js unless you feel like rolling your own parser. all the various IRC libs on npm are buggy

asdfbot, of course, rolled it's own parser

Mr. Xcoder

@labela--gotoa Logically speaking, Python's behaviour is much saner. Comparing a string to an integer is like comparing an apple to a pear and saying they're the same because they have the same shape

Manish Kundu

My friend runs a node.js bot. I would say it's good

Mr. Xcoder

@labela--gotoa I had no problem with it, it was just to showcase that modules can be assigned to global variables from within a function

moonheart08

@ManishKundu notable issue i know of: The first result for irc on npm, the 'irc' module, crashes when a ban that uses a mask is encountered

Manish Kundu

:O

What does your bot do btw?

moonheart08

18:04

everything and nothing at the same time

label a -- goto a

@Mr.Xcoder No? You know what's crazy? I've got x apples where x is 5. Every other language: "I've got 5 apples", Python: "I've got INT IS NOT A STR YOU IDIOT!". Python is the least logical language, I've ever met. I only like it because of imports and it's multipurpose

Manish Kundu

lel

moonheart08

we occasionally use it for chan op utilities

but beyond that

There's an older copy of it (the asdfbot_ version, aka stable) on github. github.com/io4/otherbot

Manish Kundu

I see.

moonheart08

Actually, that version isn't even stable anymore. It's old lol

Mr. Xcoder

18:06

@labela--gotoa If you think Python is strongly typed, let's just agree to disagree. Learn Swift, for example, and you'll be shocked by what a strictly typed language looks like :)

moonheart08

We haven't updated it :p

Manish Kundu

Updating bots is boring

moonheart08

agree

we just do random things instead

like getting everyone and everything addicted to factorio

label a -- goto a

@Mr.Xcoder I don't have a reason to learn Swift, I want just to let you know, that if you think other languages are wrong because Python does something in other way, then it's not them wrong, but Python

Manish Kundu

factorio?

moonheart08

18:08

factorio.com

It's turing complete (Combinators) too.

Manish Kundu

Oh.

gtg now

moonheart08

bye

Mr. Xcoder

@labela--gotoa No language is wrong. I never claimed that Javascript is wrong when you try 0 == '0', I just expressed my preferences on that matter. then it's not them wrong, but Python – I think it is better to just agree that different languages have different implementations and paradigms (some saner than others..., subjectively), and not accuse Language X of being wrong.

Hi @Leaky

Leaky Nun

hi

moonheart08

hi

Leaky Nun

18:13

@labela--gotoa "I've got %s apples"%5 should work I think

Mr. Xcoder

%d might be better suited in this case, but %s definitely works too

Poke

@Mr.Xcoder Python technically is strongly typed. I think you're thinking of "statically typed vs dynamically typed"

Mr. Xcoder

Nope, I am thinking of strongly typed.

Poke

Python is strongly typed.

Mr. Xcoder

It is, but not excessively.

Poke

18:16

the heck does that mean

Mr. Xcoder

I'll give you an example shortly.

Poke

In python if you want to concatenate a string and an integer you need to cast the integer to a string

if you did "string" + 123

you'd get a type exception

Mr. Xcoder

Yeah, Python is strongly typed.

Erik the Outgolfer

@Mr.Xcoder %s means "convert to string", i.e. str

that is, lambda x='':'%s'%x is the same as str

Mr. Xcoder

Sure it is

So is lambda x='':'%d'%x for that matter

%d is specific to signed decimal integers, while %s converts any Python object to a string using str().

Relevant wiki – String Formatting Operations

Riker

18:37

@moonheart08 hellomouse.cf this is the server?

looks cool

moonheart08

Mhm

Well, one of them

Riker

@moonheart08 tip: don't use Node.js unless you are a goat

moonheart08

new.hellomouse.cf is our brand new $75 a month highend dedi

Riker

huh

@moonheart08 also, really? mirc? :p

irssi best irc

moonheart08

hellomouse.cf is some virtualmachine from FuslVZ that has 1 GB ram and a bit of cpu power. I don't use MIRC?

Poke

18:39

@Riker tip: don't use Node.js

ftfy

@Riker what about pidgin huehue

Riker

@Poke yea no

Poke

pidgin #1 chat client

Riker

@moonheart08 found ya

and damn so many ops

moonheart08

On IRC? I'm at work. No ZNC access. Fact: ALL the ops are bots

all of them

every last one

Riker

huh

moonheart08

18:40

The channel is full of bot makers lol

and other random programmers

Riker

wait, you mean the one called "WarsawBot" is a bot?

no wayyyyy

moonheart08

lol

asdfbot is the main bot

Riker

also lol, I would have assumed "moony" is you

moonheart08

@Riker it is

Riker

ah

moonheart08

18:41

ZNC

Riker

ah cool

I've never used znc

Poke

znc is great

moonheart08

^

Riker

nobody takes my nick tho

and I don't need logging

Poke

that's not the only reason to use a bouncer

moonheart08

18:43

Taking a nick isn't why i have a ZNC ^

Poke

message history is a thing

Riker

again, I don't need logging

Poke

not logging

Riker

my irc chans all feed into discord or are dead

moonheart08

I have nickserv set up to forcibly rename anyone who uses my nick and doesn't log in as me in 30 seconds :P

Riker

18:43

lol

moonheart08

well not just my nick. Like a dozen other nicks that i've grouped as well. I go by a bunch of things online

Riker

heh

Poke

bouncers also let you easily write your own little plugins

moonheart08

^

Riker

@moonheart08 I go by 3, all within 3 levenshtein distances of my SE one :p

@Poke example?

Poke

18:45

@Riker wiki.znc.in/Modules

it was popular back in the day to write amps

little music hooks into your chat client

moonheart08

##werewolf is best

Riker

^ haven't tried it but I mean to sometime

no clue about when games are

moonheart08

@Riker Variable, depends on when enough players show up. Minimum game is 4p

It's ran by a bot, lykos

Riker

19:00

ah

moonheart08

It's been kinda dead recently ):

Not too many games

Riker

^ I check every couple days or so

I might start using ZNC just because it looks like it does ssl for me

I'm too lazy to set that up

moonheart08

I think it's kinda a shame that Core Wars is no longer really played. It's fun to write programs for

quartata

@labela--gotoa The vast majority of languages, regardless of typing discipline, do this. The only two I know that let you concat a string and an integer with + are Java and JavaScript

Perl, PHP and Lua have separate operators

Ruby offers string interpolation

Rest require casts

Order of operations becomes very confusing very quickly when you overload + too much, not to mention the typing considerations

label a -- goto a

19:16

@quartata I know, but the difference between + and . doesn't mean much, that almost the same operator still. In PHP + isn't used for strings, because . is. I really, really don't understand Python here. But that's not the only thing

and I've ended the topic already

I don't like using + for string concat, but the requirement to cast is really stupid for me, it's like PHP would require casting when using the . operator

quartata

Well thats different

label a -- goto a

Int is not string is very stupid error, because that's just "I know what you mean, but make your code more ugly, because I'm too lazy to cast it myself"

quartata

That's strong vs weak typing

label a -- goto a

I know, please end the topic

I don't want to talk about this

quartata

...all right

fights over typing disciplines seem to be the new emacs vs vi

@Poke pidgin isn't so bad

had its place in ye olden AIM days

New Main Posts

19:27

-2

Q: Converge to Zero

Produce a function that takes a single argument, or a program that reads from input, that increments, decrements, or returns its integer parameter such that repeated applications converge strictly monotonically to zero. Namely, $$f(x) = \begin{cases} x-1 & x > 0 \ x & x = 0 x+1 & x < 0$$ The on...

Poke

I think label a is trying to go beyond "strongly typed". Java is also strongly typed but it allows you to more or less directly concat a string and an int because of an implicit cast defined in the JLS.

@quartata i was only being half sarcastic... i still use pidgin.

luls

Pavel

@Mr.Xcoder That's because of a tacoscript

Mr. Xcoder

Oh yeah, duh.

Pavel

@Poke How old is pidgin?

label a -- goto a

Tacoscript?

$2^3$

Poke

19:28

@Pavel 10 years-ish?

label a -- goto a

ummm

Poke

err sorry

20 years

ish

quartata

@Poke that's more or less an exception to its typing discipline, one that I'll let slide due to the fact that it's manifest typed and so you know what is an int and what is a string

Pavel

@labela--gotoa @ATaco Has a collection of really useful userscripts for use in Chat: a-ta.co/userscripts

Poke

Pidgin was released in 1999 according to wikipedia

quartata

19:29

yeah

label a -- goto a

@Pavel, oh nice

quartata

pretty much all the GNOME stuff is old

Pavel

Is this something I should have heard of, having been born in 2001?

quartata

yes since it comes by default on most distros

Poke

@Pavel if you ever used more than one chat client at the same time, maybe

quartata

19:30

The trouble with pidgin is that all the stuff I used it for is dead now

Pavel

@quartata Ah, I see, GNOME. I have KDE IM instead.

quartata

Like when you had AIM, Xfire, GTalk, IRC and a Jabber server that was awesome

Poke

i remember that ^

quartata

But it doesn't work with Hangouts and everything else is ded

Might as well use a separate IRC client

Poke

well at this point i'm used to the interface

#unlucky

quartata

19:31

It was a patch of duct tape holding together the festering disjointed boil of chat services

Plus Discord

I hate Discord and yet it's still better than basically everything except IRC

Pavel

KDE IM has Twitter, Skype, Telegram, and a bunch of other stuff that's way outdated.

@quartata Discord is awesome ಠ_ಠ

Poke

i think trillian tried to play a similar roll

Οurous

@Pavel they're both awesome, and not mutually exclusive.

Poke

never seemed to catch on, though

quartata

actually it sucks because it doesn't have replies and it's written in React

Poke

19:33

there was also digsby

quartata

Oh jeez

Poke

My friends and I started way back in the day on aim. Then at some point we moved to skype... then mumble... and now we're on discord

it has been quite the journey

quartata

On an unrelated note a suspicious dot of mustard yellow just showed up on my sleeve

Pavel

Me and my friends just went Skype => Discord. I wonder what'll come next.

quartata

I think nature might have just taken a dump on me

I hate outside

8

Poke

19:37

gosh that was like 15+ years ago at this point

:\

quartata

Didn't see any birds but what else could it be

Poke

@quartata pollen? maybe a bee landed on you

Pavel

What does constantly being reminded you're old feel like?

Poke

@Pavel I hardly feel old except when I think about how long I've been driving

quartata

@Poke it's liquid and smells like fish

Poke

19:38

feels like just yesterday i was getting my license

quartata

Sorry to go into detail

Poke

ahahahah

Riker

no have a star that was great

Poke

that's very unlucky

Pavel

@quartata What was a PPCGer doing outside in the first place?

Riker

19:39

@Pavel one guess

grocery store

since amazon fresh isn't available for everybdoy

Pavel

We have Amazon Fresh here and using it feels like some kind of dystopian future.

Riker

@ATaco can you give an eli5 next to each of your scripts so I know what/how they do stuff

@Pavel ty that's what I meant

quartata

this restroom is out of service

this is a conspiracy

Pavel

smh just go home and stop being outside

moonheart08

I'm honestly suprised PPCG hasn't made its own hill for Core War or a similar game in the first place. It fits the scope, and plenty of people would be intrested. Maybe i'll host my own if people wanted.

enter key pls

i'm typing

not sending

PhiNotPi

19:43

We had a core-war-esque challenge once.

(I know because I made it.)

moonheart08

Link? I'd like to take a look

PhiNotPi

Although to some extent I went out of my way to make it different than "modern" Core War.

18

Q: The Nano Core War

This is an adaption of Core War, a programming KOTH dating back to the 20th century. To be more specific, it is using an incredibly simplified instruction set primarily based off of the original proposal. Background In Core War, there are two programs battling for control over the computer. Th...

king-of-the-hill

New Sandboxed Posts

0

A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

Evil Battleship Your goal is to make a 1-player variant of battleship where the computer cheats by moving ships around. It should be sneaky enough that an unaware player won't immediately realize that the computer is cheating. Perhaps it might intentionally give away some ships to make the playe...

PhiNotPi

It would be interesting to have an actual (automatically maintained) Core War Hill or something similar.

moonheart08

I could write and host one

Core War is simple to implement

AdmBorkBork

19:48

@quartata PowerShell will do so. "123" + 4 will yield "1234" but 123 + "4" will give you 127.

moonheart08

Plus i could probably make a fairly fast hill. Depends on if trying to JIT redcode is even possible lol

quartata

@AdmBorkBork that's awful

ok good news spot has been eliminated

AdmBorkBork

You just need to remember that PowerShell uses the left operand for implicit casting and you can golf a byte or two.

quartata

And to answer @Riker's question I was just sitting on a bench

Very dangerous stuff

love too live life on the edge

moonheart08

I'll probably run two hills even, a special PPCG one that balances the game a little (Like removing pspace to force people who write the programs to use actual game space.

AdmBorkBork

19:50

Or forget that little nugget and go crazy trying to figure out why your code doesn't work.

It's pretty much an either/or scenario.

Pavel

;-; owlboy just bricked my laptop

How the even

It crashed and now whenever I try to sign in it crashes again

moonheart08

Unfortunately, the P-space isn't as private as it seems. While your opponent can't read or write your P-space directly, your processes may be captured and made execute your opponents code, including STPs. <<< I forgot about this detail. Nevermind. :P

I may try and host a esolangs.org/wiki/BF_Joust hill first, and extend it from there.

Riker

if you can do it I would updoot and maybe submit things

stanri

20:06

Is it possible to make a code golf question too hard? I mean surely there's a limit where it's just not fun anymore?

moonheart08

tries to decide

Riker

@moonheart08 mind if I name you as the person who mentioned this channel?

stanri

I don't want to over-spec mine

Riker

(valoran)

moonheart08

@Riker That would be standard. I'm moony on there :P

Riker

20:06

kk

label a -- goto a

My post doesn't seem to get much attention. Not even chatbot notice it ಠ_ಠ

moonheart08

haha

label a -- goto a

Except the 1 upvote...

Riker

thou hast been rejected by the botly gods

please offer sacrifices in their name to cleanse thyself in their sight

totallyhuman

lol no screw the bots

label a -- goto a

20:10

still no post? lol

@NewPosts where are u?

moonheart08

It's on vacation.

quartata

no it went outside and became nature's target practice

Dennis

It's not uncommon for the bet to take an hour to notice a new main post.

label a -- goto a

Often it does notice it much faster... As I noticed...

?

totallyhuman

no not really

it comes and goes on a whim

AdmBorkBork

20:14

@stanri There's no requirement that the challenge be solvable by the challenge author, if that's your concern.

Dennis

@stanri Well...

824

Q: Build a working game of Tetris in Conway's Game of Life

Here is a theoretical question - one that doesn't afford an easy answer in any case, not even the trivial one. In Conway's Game of Life, there exist constructs such as the metapixel which allow the Game of Life to simulate any other Game-of-Life rule system as well. In addition, it is known that...

code-challenge game cellular-automata game-of-life tetris

totallyhuman

it just shouldn't be proven impossible essentially

Dennis

It's not code golf, but as you can see, just because a challenge is incredibly hard doesn't mean there won't be any takers.

label a -- goto a

Well, I was surprised when I saw this challenge for the first time and it wasn't closed. Such things don't happen to be open...

But this is an exception ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

New Main Posts

3

Q: The Pyramid of Languages

Write a code that runs or compiles in as many programming languages as possible and prints a newline separated list of names of previous and current programming languages. Every used language must have 1 character longer name than previous and the first must be 1 character long; ex. C, C#, C++,...

polyglot rosetta-stone

label a -- goto a

20:18

ooo

totallyhuman

@labela--gotoa it's not..?

Dennis

@labela--gotoa Well defined challenges, no matter how hard, don't get closed. Or do you mean something else?

label a -- goto a

@Dennis idk, but that's not common to see such hard challenge to be open, no matter what

Dennis

Any examples? We have plenty of hard challenges.

42

Q: Longest common substring in linear time

This challenge is about writing code to solve the following problem. Given two strings A and B, your code should output the start and end indices of a substring of A with the following properties. The substring of A should also match some substring of B. There should be no longer substring of ...

code-golf string restricted-complexity

32

Q: Build a digital clock in Wireworld

Inspired by this Game of Life question. Wireworld simulates "electrons" flowing through "wires", simple arrangements of which produce typical logic gate behavior. I challenge you to build a digital clock in the Wireworld cellular automaton. Your clock must count upwards from 00:00 to 23:59 in t...

code-golf cellular-automata

totallyhuman

...difficulty is not a factor considered when reviewing

Dennis

20:23

At least it should not be.

totallyhuman

hah well i'm talking about a perfect world :P

label a -- goto a

o.O

Well, people don't make hard challenges often

Dennis

They do not. There's a crowd that would welcome more of them though.

Riker

@NewMainPosts thank you newmainposts for finally showing up

label a -- goto a

haha

Dennis

20:25

@Riker I'm getting déjà vu.

Luis Mendo

This challege was very hard too. At least it seemed to me

142

Q: Hyperprogramming: N+N, N×N, N^N all in one

Write a program that takes in a number N from 1 to 9 inclusive. In its native form your program should output N+N. E.g. output 2 if N is 1, 4 if N is 2, 6 if N is 3, and so on. When every character in your program is duplicated in place, then it should be a program that takes in N (still from 1 ...

code-golf math number arithmetic source-layout

Riker

@Dennis so was I

so I edited

>.>

Dennis

:P

label a -- goto a

the thing i don't understand from the tetris most is that why the heck the question itself has so many upvotes O_o

Dennis

Because people wanted to see an answer.

totallyhuman

20:28

and the answer is ridiculously awesome

AdmBorkBork

It also received a lot of traffic when the answer was posted.

and traffic tends to equate to upvotes

label a -- goto a

Ehh...

Dennis

@LuisMendo It certainly did. I was surprised to find such a concise answer in a non-2D language.

totallyhuman

this should be ridiculously easy but i can't remember the language for the life of me

can somebody please crack it? >_<

Luis Mendo

@Dennis I was surprised there was any answer at all :-)

Οurous

20:31

@Dennis I do really like hard GUI and fastest-code challenges.

Dennis

@totallyhuman I'm fairly certain I know what language it is. Trying to get an interpreter.

totallyhuman

yes thank you

Dennis

@LuisMendo Oh, 2D languages had to be able to solve it. Duplicating characters doesn't matter much if you can go vertical.

label a -- goto a

ehh

i've got a nice language to go as cop in it

but it has no article on wikipedia or rosetta code, neither has an interpreter on TIO

But it's for free on GitHub and has a nice documentation and has quite a community

Luis Mendo

That may be too many hints :-)

label a -- goto a

20:40

But I can't post it, because it's not on tio, wiki or rosetta

Christopher

put it on wiki?

label a -- goto a

I could, but I don't even have Wikipedia account and I never published/edited any Wikipedia article

And if I added it RN it could be easy to guess by looking at article edit history, won't be it?

Mr. Xcoder

I did expect an answer, because you guys here can solve anything, but this is just some really crazy stuff. You are a master and I'm in awe of your magnificence. — Nova Sep 11 '16 at 21:57

True!

totallyhuman

@labela--gotoa esolangs is easy but yeah it would be easy to crack

Dennis

Argh, way too many dependencies.

Christopher

20:48

@Dennis Can't decide if you are talking about your kids or TIO :)

Dennis

PLQ

Christopher

That didn't really clear it up

totallyhuman

programming language quiz

AdmBorkBork

@totallyhuman Jeez, I was hoping it would last longer than 30 seconds, lol.

Christopher

Ahh

t.co/8ZMJVUs4W1

label a -- goto a

20:51

lol

Christopher

Who let Elon Musk get money

totallyhuman

@AdmBorkBork a) % and le and b) it's you

:P

label a -- goto a

Ahh Elon

AdmBorkBork

I should go make a Cop post that when run in PowerShell outputs something like "Haha, fooled you!"

totallyhuman

i'd fall for that

Christopher

20:53

I have a idea :)

@ATaco twitter.com/WA_Police/status/961057061042704384 proud of the land you live in

totallyhuman

it finally got cracked

dang thing had me confused for hours

Dennis

0

A: The Programming Language Quiz, Mark II - Robbers

SuperCollider, posted by Nathaniel for(1,100,"% "postf:_) Offline verification $ sclang test.sc *** Welcome to SuperCollider 3.8.0. *** For help type ctrl-c ctrl-h (Emacs) or :SChelp (vim) or ctrl-U (sced/gedit). 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30...

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