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10:31 AM
Q: Generate random LTL Formulae

SacchanAn LTL Formula l is defined by the following grammar (where <x> describes the non-terminal symbol x): <l> ::= <b> | F <l> | G <l> | X <l> | (<l> U <l>) | (<l> W <l>) | (<l> R <l>) | (<l> & <l>) | (<l> \| <l>) | !<l> <b> ::= BVar | True | False | (<i> < <i>) | (<i> <= <i>) | (<i> > <i>...

10:42 AM
@ATaco so you've exposed all the metadata for the object? Cool... Out of curiosity, can you set a variable to a function and invoke that, or does it have to be in _meta? Also, does Funky have classes, or just functions that return objects?
What do you mean by set a variable to a function? Because you can do a = b => c
And classes aren't things, but objects can share metatables.
In both of the examples, you set functions to the _meta object and then apply that to the value.. is it possible to skip that and do val.a = a => a, or do all functions have to be set in _meta?
You can set them in the object themselves.
So the purpose of _meta is to share functions? Are functions that are set on the object automatically added to _meta?
10:48 AM
And overload operators.
No. (reply to Are functions that are set on the object automatically added to _meta?)
_meta's purpose is for, mostly, metamethods, like overriding operators.
Oh okay
Like JS prototype and Lua ... metatable.
So you can have an add function as well as an add operator? Cool.
Lua's metatable is, unsurprisingly, a lot of the inspiration.
10:50 AM
Lol I've never touched Lua
If you set o.add to a function, doing o+o won't call it, but if you set o._meta._add to it, then it will call it.
What's the difference between : and ::?
: is for ternary expressions. : used to also be equivilent to lua's a:b(), but it was renamed to prevent compile collisions to ::
Dammit broke my phone today. Dropped it and it had only minor screen damage - is was completely usable.. .except for the fact that the touchscreen didn't work. After a couple of normal restarts now it doesn't boot anymore, strangely
11:20 AM
Dennis's timezone means that Funky isn't the latest version on TIO yet.
And this saddens me because I know all the glaring bugs.
@dzaima Be smart: Get a stupidphone.
@Adám then I won't be able to use APL :p
@dzaima You used APL on your phone‽
@Adám I play around with ngn or sAPL sometimes in school breaks. Once I even used APL in class when we had a table of data and an equation to be applied to each row :p
@dzaima That's really cool. I'm trying to convince Dyalog that we need an Android Dyalog APL app…
12:08 PM
@Dennis Can TIO support graphics? (that is, can you add Logo to TIO)
@HyperNeutrino This method is O(log_8(n)) I think. Why do you think so? What is n here? Do you just put the comment there to pad to 861 bytes?
Mostly lol. n is the input number.
Also, TIO currently only has basic textfields so it would need some revising to support graphics and/or syntax highlighting.


For general discussion and feature requests regarding tryitonl...
That backtrack-like algorithm can't get that good time.
(also don't use recursion unnecessarily)
lol recursion was the best way I could think of
then again if I were doing it in Python I'm sure it would be slightly better :P
At least the vector sums have n elements so it is at least O(n) already. And sorting it takes O(n log n).
@DJMcMayhem Recalculated: I visited 239 days, so 14487 / 239 = 60,615 rep/day
12:15 PM
Anyone want to post the next answer? (otherwise HyperNeutrino wins)
@user202729 I think Hyper wins.
second time I'm getting close to winning? why ;-;
eh I have 6 days left
Otherwise I am just going to hardcode the first 1k terms
Well no, because I've already done my Logo code for drawing the fractal.

to draw :halfedge :maincol :altcol
if :halfedge < 4 [stop]
draw :halfedge / 2 :maincol :altcol
fd :halfedge rt 60
fd :halfedge rt 60
draw :halfedge / 2 :altcol :maincol
rt 60
drawtria :halfedge :maincol
rt 60
draw :halfedge / 2 :altcol :maincol
fd :halfedge rt 120 bk :halfedge

to drawtria :edge :col
; if :edge > 4 [stop] ; This may be needed when it is used in "One OEIS after another" challenge
setpc :col
repeat 3 [fd :edge rt 120]
there are only 49 terms
12:17 PM
The sequence is infinite.
@Mr.Xcoder Lol I have ~2 rep per day
Question: Does pass a commandline that need to increase as the required input increase valid?
Because my Logo code (above) draw the fractal on the screen and get the data, which force the screen size to be proportional to the sequence so it can work correctly.
You can try it yourself, it draws the fractal.
12:22 PM
I think as long as it theoretically works it's fine :P
It requires command-line parameter pass to the interpreter (change canvas size) as well as parameter (the number) pass to the function.
Can you just make it change the canvas size automatically to the minimum required for n=1000?
Taking extra input isn't allowed, I think.
Makes sense. The program only need to work with n <= 1000.
can you just make like a wrapper program that takes the input and passes the command line parameters into the inner function? so like maybe make a bash program that takes the input, does stuff, and then calls Logo
@ConorO'Brien Pyth, 6 4 bytes: @F.H. ([] for false, nonempty for truthy).
Pyth beats Jelly!!!
12:28 PM
@HyperNeutrino What rip, Yuppe is probably what you meant :P
@ConorO'Brien Ohm v2, 4 bytes x⁴x∩ (last answer, no more pings :D)
Ohm also beats Jelly! (waits for Hyper's "rip")
What no, rip is probably what you meant :P:P
12:36 PM
(waits for Dennis to come here with a 3 byter)
@HyperNeutrino Well conversting to hex is 2 bytes, I am afraid that is not possible.
unless there's a one-byter to check if two sets have a non-empty intersection
but I don't think so :P
@HyperNeutrino Yeah, let's don't underestimate Dennis after all
yup :P
Shortest I can get is b⁴œ&/ taking L/R as a list and returning [] for False and non-empty for True
Yes, me too.
12:39 PM
because there's no int->hex builtin :(
Both Pyth and ohm have one
I think Gaia would beat Jelly as well, not sure though (waits for Dennis to be summoned)
Wait is Dennis not in this room right now?
No mod except for Doorknob ♦
(nor Dennis, nor Martin)
12:42 PM
Use X & Y or X | Y IMO
kind of like in Ceylon
0.4 Function Types are just like method signatures right?
but otherwise looks pretty good IMO :P
@HyperNeutrino Notation subject to change :)
but thanks
ok :)
PowerShell, 53 bytes -- $a,$b=$args|%{"{0:X}"-f$_};[char[]]"$b"|?{$a-match$_} -- Try it online! -- [] for false, nonempty for true
Pretty proud of how low that is for PowerShell and using base conversion
12:45 PM
Yay got halfway through the "Epic" badge
wait cap 25 times, right?
@HyperNeutrino Yes.
I have 13 caps lol
which is appx 1 cap per 1000 rep :P
my rep chart is starting to slightly resemble an S-curve
~1.8 cap/1k rep
0 cap/1k rep.... :)
12:49 PM
I should post more challenges....
@user202729 How's progress for the OEIS sequence? :)
ooh CMC: given a user's id, output (# of rep caps)/(rep / 1000)?
0/10 # rep caps is not easily retrievable :P
Gaia, 4 bytes h¦N⊢
Yup Gaia beats Jelly too
12:51 PM
@HyperNeutrino aw that sucks
CMP (repeat): What is a chat phrase that is (subjectively) used mostly by you?
I know what yours is are Hyper: anyway gtg o/, rip and lol
@HyperNeutrino "lol" + <some comment about not having as much rep as everyone else>
@Mr.Xcoder yup and also s/gtg/brb/ is also one
@SocraticPhoenix lol true
I wasn't even aware of these Neutrinoisms until someone Mr. Xcoder stole it and wizzwizz pointed it out :P
12:53 PM
honestly I have enough internet points to feel okay-ish...
auhg new interface! How do I get to meta?
well that works...
@HyperNeutrino Any idea what my most common phrase is other than <language> beats Jelly!!!?
brb searching your profile :P
Oct 14 at 13:21, by Mr. Xcoder
Actually I pointed it out as well
12:57 PM
I also have at least 10% of all lol here: chat.stackexchange.com/search?q=lol&user=&room=240
o/ gtg
@HyperNeutrino .. probably
'morning everyone o/
1:00 PM
I woke up like 3 hours ago -_-
school sux
'night o/
I woke up ~2 hours ago
anyway gtg o/
@HyperNeutrino :D
1:26 PM
-request for Enlist; function/operator suggestions?
I un-killed it :D
@HyperNeutrino what's enlist?
golfing language for numbers and lists
anyway brb o/
no feature requests :( lol
@HyperNeutrino Almost done.
1:35 PM
yay nice :D
Well, if I said "I give up" instead, you would win.
but I don't want to win. I want the challenge to keep going :P
If I wanted to win, I could've done that already by not saving the challenge. Although I think KSmarts did get a Mathematica fallback answer in case mine couldn't be fixed cuz it broke lol
but then I did fix it
although the basis for the Mathematica answer was originally my code, but it was mostly pulled from Mathematica.SE so KSmarts could've found it too
Half edge length = 4096 would suffice for 1000 items.
Current code: (basically done, just need to test on a large canvas)
For reference (for Enlist), I have the following characters remaining: "'?ABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQSTVWXYZ`abcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyz¡¢£°¿ÀÁÂÃÄÅÆÇÈÉÊËÌÍÎÏÑÒÓ‌​ÔÕÖØÙÚÛÜßàáâãäåæçèéêëìíîïñòóôõöøùúûüĀāĒēĪīŌōŒœūΠπ„‰‹›℅№™←↑→↓∞≈★♪✓⍶⍹
@user202729 cool, nice :)
oh I got confused I thought you sent 3 messages lol
A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

Socratic PhoenixWhat's assignable to what? In this challenge you will be given two types, A and B and determine if A is assignable to B, B is assignable to A, or neither. The Type System (I will use t to represent any type) Basic Types Basic types are represented by a single capital letter, such as X. They ...

2:03 PM
nvm remaining characters now these:
# ¡¢£¤ ¦ ¬ µ½¿ ÆÇÐÑ ØŒÞßæçð  ñ øœþ  "#   '()     /           ;   ?
#  ABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQ ST VWXYZ[\]  `abcd fghijklm opqrstuvwxyz{ }
# °¹²³⁴⁵⁶⁷⁸⁹⁺⁻⁼⁽⁾              ⍶⍹ĀāĒēĪīŌō ū  ẠḄḌẸḤỊḲḶṂṆỌṚṢṬỤṾẈỴẒȦḂ
# ĊḊĖḞĠḢİĿṀṄȮṖṘṠṪẆẊẎŻạḅḍẹḥịḳḷṃṇọṛṣṭụṿẉỵẓȧḃċḋėḟġḣŀṁṅȯṗṙṡṫẇẋẏż
@HyperNeutrino You have a tendency to make then abandon languages, don't you? :P
I haven't abandoned any recently yet though have I?
@HyperNeutrino Well, Enlist :P
Since when did I abandon that?
I'm working on it right now lol
38 mins ago, by HyperNeutrino
I un-killed it :D
2:05 PM
@user202729 Graphical output is a long-term goal.
That implies you killed it at some point
yeah well I accidentally screwed up part of it; that's what I mean by kill
ditch = abandon; kill = mess up
@HyperNeutrino Welcome to "How to understand Hyper" 101 :P
@HyperNeutrino ⍶⍹ should refer to the left and right arguments of a dyad
2:06 PM
nope, that's non-underlined alpha/omega
CMC: Given n, output n ** 2 + n ** 3
I have 3 bytes for Jelly :P
Jelly, 3 bytes: ‘ײ TIO - Probably the same as yours.
@user202729 Nope
Example: 5 => 150
@user202729 That wouldn't work
@cairdcoinheringaahing SOGL, 4 bytes: ².I*
It does work. TIO link added.
2:11 PM
Wait, how does that work?
n ** 2 + n ** 3 = (1 + n) * (n ** 2)
(n+1) × n² - algebra manipulation.
mathematics :D
@cairdcoinheringaahing jelly, 5 bytes: *2,3S
MATL, 4 bytes, QGU*
2:12 PM
or 4 bytes
@EriktheOutgolfer Ninja'd and outgolfed :P
@user202729 Mine was +²×
(n + n ** 2) * n works as well true :P
Taken from the Jelly tutorial, TBH
2:16 PM
that's just confusing, it should be ²+×
@Neil No, because dyads in Jelly act infix, and monads are postfix
so ×+² ?
halp I can't do this in TIO enlist lol
@EriktheOutgolfer +² looks like the square of the sum, rather than adding the square
2:19 PM
not to me but maybe that's just cuz I have jelly experience :P
@Neil That would be n × n + n²
@cairdcoinheringaahing or 2n² in short...
so what does ²+× actually do then?
(n² + n) × n
husk, 4 bytes: §*□→
2:21 PM
@cairdcoinheringaahing so, the same result, but just slightly less unreadable :P
@Neil Yes, but its less readable to Jellyers (IMO)
In current Enlist: +²× :P
I read +²× as "Add the argument's square to the argument, then times that by the argument"
Enlist is probably going to get VTC'd as a dupe of Jelly :P
@HyperNeutrino brb, casting my VTC :P /s
2:23 PM
I think you mean ಠ_ಠ
Hahaha We use ಠ_ಠ too much
{disapproval face} get 129 page of result, and "lol" get 235 pages of result.
2:26 PM
> "lol" -> 11747 messages found
"ಠ_ಠ" -> 6405 messages found
Still, why does empty "user" field work, while empty "search for" field does not work?
because SE
Because stack exchange.
@user202729 Because chat is buggy
Lol ninja'd
2:28 PM
they should really add regex search :P
@HyperNeutrino But then it wouldn't be worth the extra effort to open TNBDE
lol true
but the only reason someone had to put forth the effort to make TNBDE is because SE made chat search very primitive ._. lol
@cairdcoinheringaahing can you do regex search on TNBDE?
@dzaima No idea, I don't know SQL
@cairdcoinheringaahing 4 bytes in Pyth
Uses n^2(1+n)
2:31 PM
TNBDE stands for "The Nineteen Byte ..." what?
@user202729 Data Explorer
CMP: Should modifiers (quicks) be prefix or postfix in Levant? Example, L€ or €L
are monads prefix or postfix?
Is levant stack based
2:31 PM
@Mr.Xcoder Kinda
Its stack based and tacit at the same time :P
uh wat
@cairdcoinheringaahing Then prefix (€L)
@HyperNeutrino It's not even near completion, I haven't thought of making docs yet
oh ok
2:33 PM
@HyperNeutrino Although, the way it works is that it stores the values used on a stack, but the program still has a value that it transfers between atoms stored at the top of the stack (like Jelly without a stack)
hm interesting
@user202729 Does it actually output the number from the sequence or does it just draw the image?
It does on FMSLogo.
In JSLogo it just error.
@user202729 FWIW, it's 1132 bytes long
+15 for flags
Already add byte counter. What is FWIW...
For What It's Worth
2:37 PM
@HyperNeutrino Ah yes, I forgot "next sequence". Let's see what it is...
ಠ_ಠ Mathematica has a builtin for the next sequence
weird double factorial thing
Very easy.
@user202729 oeis.org/A001147
@HyperNeutrino 2 answers were posted yesterday for it right?
yes, at least ones not deleted
2:38 PM
Huh, I have no notifications about them being posted
anyway, any final feature-requests for enlist before I leave
: Add a quit command: anyway gtg o/
It would prove, without a doubt, that you made the language :P
because you know totally nobody else could possibly do that in their language too
my chat style is quite influenced by that of my friends lol so idk if someone in the past used to use that a lot
maybe it's just a neutrinoism; those exist too :P
2:45 PM
I'm trying to understand the billiard-ball computer problem here:
https://codegolf.stackexchange.com/questions/3809/simulate-a-gravity-based-billiard-ball-type-computer?rq=1, can someone give me an example of a NAND or NOR gate using that construction?
well or gate and xor gate are obvious so I think that would work? let me take a look at it
ಠ_ಠ I just looked at Tre's profile and realised how little I know about maths
Someone posted the next OEIS sequence already.
@user202729 Yeah, the next one is kinda easy as well
2:48 PM
Pinged Nie in comments
@HyperNeutrino you ninja'd me in replying :P
1 a 1 b
\_/ \_/
 \   /
  \ /
I think this works
(for NAND)
because NOT ( A AND B ) is just NOT ( NOT ( NOT A OR NOT B ) ) by DeMorgan's Law which is NOT A OR NOT B
anyway gtg o/
@HyperNeutrino CMC just for you: Next time you leave, you can say anything to indicate you are leaving, aside from "anyway gtg o/"
@HyperNeutrino Thanks! That helps me a lot.
@cairdcoinheringaahing Replace a with a. Done.
(violate standard loophole)
2:55 PM
@user202729 That's an interesting point. Do standard loopholes apply to CMCs
CMM (chat mini meta): Do standard loopholes apply to CMCs?
CMMA (chat mini meta answer): Yes, but within reason. If it is genuinely clever/funny then no, otherwise yes
@cairdcoinheringaahing CMMU (chat mini meta upvote)
(I somehow put a instead of а. The latter one was supposed to be cyrillic a)
@user202729 I honestly couldn't tell the difference :P
3:06 PM
That's why it was made a standard loophole. "аnywаy gtg o/" != "anyway gtg o/".
Q: Draw the lambda blazon

jacksonecacTo celebrate the 2497th anniversary of the Greek victory at Salamis in 480 BC. Draw the lambda blazon. The lambda blazon was the lambda painted on greek shields like so: Puzzle: Given a positive odd integer n, produce an ascii art image of the above shield. Specifications: n=1: ( /\ ) n...

@cairdcoinheringaahing I like it. Also such a thingy already exists (which I think I told you before) :P
3:22 PM
@Mego VarLife? (without looking at the link)
@Mego Can VarLife be used in code golf though?
Hard mode version of the challenge: every cell has its own ruleset (just like Varlife)
@cairdcoinheringaahing Probably not.
@Mego I could post that if this one is liked :P
3:23 PM
I think it would make for an interesting challenge
Plus you have a reference implementation already made in VarLife :P
Super hard mode: that challenge, but with Tetris as a test case
I entered "Change the rules of Life" in the title box and the dupe search instantly returned Tetris GoL :P
New rule: In order for a GoL question to be considered "good" it has to be better or the same as the last two or three challenges, and those challenges have to still be active :P
ಠ_ಠ I clicked "Post Question" and it asked me if I wanted to leave the page. I thought I had misclicked, so clicked "Stay" and reclicked "Post Question". Then it decided to tell me that my question was a dupe of... itself ლ(ಠ益ಠლ)
3:32 PM
I want to add negative length strings to SOGL but I'm way too lazy to redo like 50% of the code..
@dzaima Huh? How do you get negative length strings?
OEIS: Shakespeare PL posted. Next sequence. Still very easy.
@cairdcoinheringaahing -1 * "a" for example. And then (-1 * "a") + "ii" would result to i
Or by removing the last character of an empty string
@dzaima So it would be some sort of abstract data type? If you can add that, do. It sounds really cool/maybe helpful
@cairdcoinheringaahing It would have helped me on at least 3 questions, one being the last the last ascii-art posted
3:37 PM
@cairdcoinheringaahing How did I never think of addressing whether the grid toroidal?
Q: Change the rules of Life

caird coinheringaahingLife-like cellular automaton are cellular automaton that are similar to Conway's Game of Life, in that they operate on a (theoretically) infinitely large square grid, where each cell has exactly 8 neighbours, and is one of 2 states, namely alive and dead. However, these Like-like versions are di...

3:53 PM
@cairdcoinheringaahing no
@HyperNeutrino ಠ_ಠ
4:43 PM
@DJMcMayhem Do tell
Brain-flak now has more stars on Github than V does. That's a first
feature-request-request for enlist again
lol i don't want to just copy jelly so i'm asking community for features
Ask Dennis for feature requests :P
well dennis can answer but i'm asking PPCG community for features :P
4:49 PM
k I'm gonna finally attempt to start working on an actual ascii-art golfing language
anyway gtg o/
4:59 PM
@Mr.Xcoder I love the fact that a significant part of your Pyth code for the lambda shield question is just pluses :P
@cairdcoinheringaahing Yeah ik
I have to do maths rn, :-/
5:12 PM
I either arrive or leave near HyperNeutrino's "anyway gtg o/" and think:
Has TNB really been that quiet whilst I was gone?
@cairdcoinheringaahing are the languages on the TI Nspire Cx and the TI Nspire Cx Cas different for the oeis challenge?
@dzaima seems like something didn't go well in my solution :p
@DJMcMayhem I'd not be surprised imho
well brain-flak seems more interesting than v...at least imho
@EriktheOutgolfer I wanted to say something like if input 1 wasn't required to work, then SOGL would be only X bytes, but soon found out that that doesn't help.. :p
5:23 PM
imo that 1 case seems like it's a special case
@EriktheOutgolfer it can be, but it can be worked around without extras for it
not in charcoal though :(
@EriktheOutgolfer why? I'd imagine overwriting a ( isn't much different than overwriting |
hmm...I might have figured out a fix
1 message moved to Trash
5:35 PM
Hey Mego
On the Pollard's rho issue, I have some code that I wrote myself and I have some code that I grabbed from the sympy source code
Would you like to see either?
@Sherlock9 Sure
Let me put it them in pastebin
A gist would be easier
Gist it is
@HusnainRaza I'd say yes, they are different
5:42 PM
@Mego My version here and sympy's version here
I should note that I copy-pasted the sympy version and was planning to analyze further later
This is just what I have so far
@Sherlock9 Those link to the same thing
@Sherlock9 You linked your version twice
Thank you both
@Sherlock9 Quick note: gcd is provided in math, so you don't have to write your own implementation
Ah, I should use that then
The "igcd" thing in the sympy version is supposed to be sympy's version with it's own cache-handling
But I didn't bother copying that over because it by itself was 30 lines of code or so
5:53 PM
Hmm... Since we already have a list of primes, I wonder if it would be more efficient to just do something like:
facs = []
for p in primes:
  while n%p==0:
  if p*p>=n: break
That should be O(e*sqrt(n)), where e is the largest exponent in the product-of-prime-powers form of n
Well, Pollard's rho is pretty good when paired with trial division up to a point
Oh, I should say that the source is here

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