The Nineteenth Byte

MD XF

19:02

@Dennis how come you locked this? Shouldn't it have just been deleted?

TuxCopter

It's too awesome to be deleted

Riker

@MDXF it has a golfed answer in basic

MD XF

@Riker Well yeah, then why is it invalid?

Riker

Relevant meta discussion: What additional information should be allowed in a submission? — Dennis ♦ Dec 7 '16 at 6:12

New Main Posts

19:16

1

Q: Display random colored pixels

I've always liked screens full of randomly colored pixels. They're interesting to look at and the programs that draw them are fun to watch. The challenge Fill your screen, or a graphical window, with colored pixels. The rules Your program must have an even chance of picking all colors in the...

totallyhuman

i should get the hang of pillow someday

TuxCopter

Why does this have 14k (!) subs

Riker

random note of the day: the pools in this comic are the ones from Narnia I think

No matter how fast I swing, I can never travel outside this loop! Maybe space outside it doesn't exist! But I bet it does. This tire came from somewhere.

@TuxCopter sigh

totallyhuman

@TuxCopter get used to it

Riker

wait did it just gain 2k as you refreshed

totallyhuman

19:20

memes like this don't stop for a while

TuxCopter

@Riker No I just have a very short memory

Riker

ah

TuxCopter

And I had it wrong by 2k

Stephen S

@totallyhuman none of the above, cov fe fe with e pronounced like in Spanish

TuxCopter

I pronounce it as [cofefe]

Riker

19:22

I always think of it as "co-fef-eh"

;-;

TuxCopter

Nintendo please add this pokemon in the next generation

trichoplax

@Riker The trees are too far apart - I can see sky...

Riker

lol

Stephen S

@Riker and the pools are a bit too small

Riker

ye

I think it's supposed to be the narnia ones though

Stephen S

19:26

Where's their rings then

Riker

dunno

trichoplax

In the absence of any predators, I assume the Wood Between The Worlds is now almost entirely filled with guinea pigs

3

Riker

hm

I'd think a lot of other worlds would also spontaneously gain guinea pigs as part of the local fauna

Anonymous

@trichoplax Nah, it's filled with owls, like Futurama

TuxCopter

TIL Trump speaks Samoan

trichoplax

19:32

@Mego It seems I've seen less Futurama than I'd thought...

Anonymous

@trichoplax A lot of episodes have owls acting like pigeons, and reference the owl overpopulation

trichoplax

Maybe it's just my memory that is less than I'd thought

DJMcMayhem

@trichoplax Wouldn't inbreeding become a massive problem?

Anonymous

For example, in S6E23 (The Tip of the Zoidberg), Zoidberg and Farnsworth are sitting on a park bench feeding bread crumbs to owls

Phoenix

@trichoplax I should move to the Wood Between The Worlds

DJMcMayhem

19:36

Futurama Owls

►

trichoplax

@DJMcMayhem I don't know. Maybe having an arbitrarily large space to expand into would allow that problem to gradually sort itself out

Phoenix

@BusinessCat I had made a few ruby golfs which were all puts gets.gsub(/foo/,'bar') without knowing anything else.

Anonymous

@DJMcMayhem That would be the one

Phoenix

That alone gets you surprisingly far.

Anonymous

I don't have Futurama episodes memorized yet - my wife and I just rewatched that one last night so it's fresh in my memory.

DJMcMayhem

19:37

@trichoplax But Polly and Digory only introduced a couple guinea pigs, right? So there isn't enough genetic diversity at the beginning

@Mego Such a fantastic show. I've watched through it 2-3 times already

Stephen S

@DJMcMayhem depends on whether genetic mutations occur as frequently outside of earth as they do on earth, assumptions about scientific laws following earth's laws on other dimensions are always iffy

trichoplax

@DJMcMayhem I thought they found several others there from previous experiments (since none of them had been able to return). I don't know how likely long term species survival is with that kind of bottle neck though

DJMcMayhem

Mmhmm, good point. Both

I think I remember reading somewhere that the minimum genetic diversity needed for humans to safely repopulate without worrying about inbreeding is 100 people?

I think?

Let me see if I can find that link.

trichoplax

There's probably at least one question along those lines on Worldbuilding

Phoenix

Given grass, guinea pigs will survive for years by themselves in a semi-comatose state of simultaneously eating, sleeping, and producing feces.

Anonymous

19:40

@trichoplax That's like 50% of all questions on Worldbuilding

Stephen S

@DJMcMayhem this?

DJMcMayhem

That's the one!

Stephen S

29

Q: How many people are required for a healthy re-population of the Earth (Post-Apocalypse)?

In my particular Earth, much has remained after the human-killing virus, and nature is thriving - even taking over the cities. It's beautiful. But I have separated the healthy populace in orbit until it was safe to return. In a near-future scenario, where I have rescued only a few non-relate...

science-based apocalypse near-future post-apocalypse genetics

Anonymous

@Phoenix Sub out grass with meat and the same holds for cats

Phoenix

Assuming domestic guinea pigs, you could leave one in that wood and then find it in nearly the same spot years later.

Anonymous

19:44

@Phoenix That's also assuming the lack of hawks and other birds of prey

Phoenix

We made that assumption at the very start

There are no predators

Anonymous

Oh, I read that as "the woods", ie Earth woodlands with predators and such

Anonymous

I'm tired

Riker

lol

trichoplax

Also handy that the only humans in that wood were English, with a cultural aversion to eating guinea pigs

DJMcMayhem

19:45

Can I just say that I love TNB? In a room dedicated to code-golf, we can have a perfectly serious conversation about guinea pig inbreeding and overpopulation, complete with genetic research and mathematical analysis?

12

Anonymous

@DJMcMayhem Also owls and Futurama.

trichoplax

I was assuming this was all leading up to "golf the following well specified simulation"

Anonymous

@trichoplax Naturally

Stephen S

"Given an exponential guinea pig growth of x, output the guinea pigs alive after y years, assuming there are no side affects due to inbreeding. One guinea pig cannot reproduce, sorry."

Phoenix

I think the best way to solve this is experimentally.
Step 1: Gather ~20 guinea pigs.
Step 2: Drop everything else, you now have ~20 guinea pigs, what more could you want.

Anonymous

19:48

@Phoenix Step 3: Trade ~20 guinea pigs for ~20 kittens.

DJMcMayhem

@StephenS I would find it a serious cause for concern if a single guinea pig could reproduce

Stephen S

@Phoenix step 4: move somewhere where guinea pigs are food, profit

Phoenix

@Mego The problem is that kittens become less adorable with time.

Anonymous

@Phoenix Provably false

Phoenix

@StephenS ಠ_ಠ

Erik the Outgolfer

19:49

@Mego wrong: I'd trade 'em for ~50 kittens or something

Anonymous

@EriktheOutgolfer I'm assuming a 1:1 exchange rate

Phoenix

@Mego No, see, kittens become cats, which while rather engaging to watch, are not actually all that adorable.

Riker

@Phoenix i.imgur.com/2tIslLr.jpg

Phoenix

+1

Erik the Outgolfer

@Mego would you trade 1 EUR for 1 USD then?

Stephen S

19:51

no, +🟊

Anonymous

@Phoenix Again, provably false.

Phoenix

@StephenS Your unicode is too powerful for my font.

Stephen S

@Phoenix it's a star

totallyhuman

mine too, and i never see boxes on a chromebook

Erik the Outgolfer

come on it's just a black star

Stephen S

19:51

xahlee.info/comp/unicode_stars.html

totallyhuman

o0

Riker

@Phoenix cat is adorable can confirm #unbiased

Phoenix

@Mego I suggest a compromise:

Erik the Outgolfer

fake 0/10

trichoplax

Is that a cat reproducing by budding?

Anonymous

19:52

@Phoenix This is acceptable

Stephen S

Guess there's a reason SE rips their icons from here:

Phoenix

@EriktheOutgolfer It's on wikipedia it must be true.

totallyhuman

why does every user on ppcg rickroll me ;-;

Erik the Outgolfer

huh?

totallyhuman

riker has a rickroll

votetoclose has a rickroll

Riker

19:54

>_>

Phoenix

something something tinyurl.com/ppcgsoundtrack I think it goes.

totallyhuman

v.ht/riker

Riker

that's what you get for stalking my profile :p

trichoplax

@totallyhuman My profile is rickroll free, but uninteresting

totallyhuman

i was trying to see what your avatar is :P

Stephen S

19:54

@totallyhuman a guinea pig duh

Anonymous

My profile is similarly rickroll free because I know when to stop beating the dead horse

Riker

@Phoenix it's http://bit.ly/ppcgofficialsoundtrack, and it links to a different song by rick astley

Stephen S

@Riker define different

totallyhuman

...

Riker

kek

totallyhuman

19:55

i recognized that url as well

Riker

it's actually a different song

Phoenix

@StephenS Try clicking it and find out.

totallyhuman

the video didn't even load :P

Erik the Outgolfer

well my profile is rickroll free too

Stephen S

@Phoenix already did, hence the dictionary request

totallyhuman

19:57

mine is rickroll free too but it's honestly just a placeholder

Erik the Outgolfer

come on it's actually different

huh? is there any rickroll?

Stephen S

@EriktheOutgolfer v.ht/riker

Phoenix

@EriktheOutgolfer On the right, v.ht/riker

Ninja'd

Erik the Outgolfer

ooh it doesn't use https

totallyhuman

rikeroll

Stephen S

19:59

that actually makes sense

Conor O'Brien

jolf code to heuristically solve P = NP

Stephen S

@ConorO'Brien 404

Riker

404

fixed now

Conor O'Brien

try again

Riker

nj

Anonymous

19:59

This rickroll nonsense has gone too far

Riker

probably

Anonymous

We devolved from intelligent discussion to rickrolls

MD XF

As usual

totallyhuman

sorry :P

Phoenix

Were we really at intelligent discussion..?

Anonymous

20:00

14 mins ago, by DJMcMayhem

Can I just say that I love TNB? In a room dedicated to code-golf, we can have a perfectly serious conversation about guinea pig inbreeding and overpopulation, complete with genetic research and mathematical analysis?

Stephen S

@Phoenix narnia->guinea pigs->rickroll

Erik the Outgolfer

what a shame! how did we let ourselves drive away!

Stephen S

CMC: KC "Can I just say that I love TNB? In a room dedicated to code-golf, we can have a perfectly serious conversation about guinea pig inbreeding and overpopulation, complete with genetic research and mathematical analysis?" without builtin string compression

Anonymous

@StephenS 2 bytes: No

totallyhuman

KC?

Stephen S

20:01

kolgorov complexity or however you spell it

Anonymous

@totallyhuman kolmogorov-complexity

totallyhuman

there's no repetition though

Erik the Outgolfer

what Mego said, not really compressible...wait a sec

Phoenix

How many gps were introduced to narnia in the first place? I think we need a good estimate before continuing.

Anonymous

@Phoenix Somewhere between 2 and 3 billion

Phoenix

20:04

I said good estimate.

Anonymous

It's a better estimate than C. S. Lewis gave us

Anonymous

→ 1 message moved to Trash

Phoenix

I would send the face of disapproval emoticon, but It is no longer in my clipboard and I cannot be bothered to look it up.

trichoplax

What a relief

totallyhuman

@Phoenix ಠ_ಠ

you should always have ಠ_ಠ in your clipboard

Phoenix

20:07

The Tacoscripts spoil us.

trichoplax

@Phoenix I don't think any of the ones in the Wood Between The Worlds ever made it to Narnia

Phoenix

Wait, right. You know what I mean though.

<_> too late to edit

Hmmm.... >_> >_< and <_< are ale reasonably valid emoticons but <_> looks weird.

Anonymous

Certainly after a long time, one of the guinea pigs would've found a ring, tried to eat it, and then fell into the Narnia pool

totallyhuman

...i don't see how this is any smarter than rickrolls

trichoplax

Oh. That does open a route for predators...

New Sandboxed Posts

20:10

0

A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

How many substitutions till palindromization? code-golfstringpalindrome Given a string, find the minimum number of character substitutions needed so that the string is a palindrome. E.g. the string abchefa needs 2 substitutions, so it can take any of the following paths: abchefa -> afchefa ->...

Anonymous

After enough inbreeding, guinea pig survival instincts like "don't eat things that aren't food" and "stay away from strange pools of water" would be long gone

trichoplax

@totallyhuman There isn't a requirement to be smart, only not to be disruptive

totallyhuman

well, "evolved"

Phoenix

@Mego I think those would be the last to go.

Stephen S

I'm still curious what they would drink, without crossing dimensions

trichoplax

20:12

I wonder what a biome would look like where all the animals shared a common ancestor, that being a guinea pig

Phoenix

You need a ring to cross dimensions, otherwise they're ordinary pools, right?

trichoplax

Yes it's just normal water otherwise

Stephen S

Probably, I haven't read it in a while, my bad

Phoenix

You should ask about that

Stephen S

@Phoenix wouldn't it be scifi/fantasy?

trichoplax

20:14

Worldbuilding would definitely take it. Their breadth of scope is vast

DJMcMayhem

Apparently there's only one guinea pig in the WBTW: narnia.wikia.com/wiki/Guinea_pig

Phoenix

The question is about how a world would look given some starting conditions.

trichoplax

SciFi is more about existing fiction, rather than speculative questions

Phoenix

If that's not on topic IDK what would be.

@DJMcMayhem noooooooo

trichoplax

@DJMcMayhem I guess I must have blocked out the fact that most of the experiments were failed, and in my mind I remembered them all ending up in a happy place

Phoenix

20:16

:-;

Stephen S

Our plans just came crashing down

Phoenix

No wait

trichoplax

Shame it wasn't a gecko

Stephen S

Wiki page says it, so she may have been pregnant

Phoenix

Yes ^

Stephen S

20:19

On a different note: I have a graduation tonight, a graduation tomorrow night, an evaluation on Monday, and then I'm home free

Phoenix

But what if we can allow the possibility that guinea pigs exploding was just them teleporting in a noisy way, leaving nothing behind.

@StephenS I have to be in school until June 23

Stephen S

@Phoenix hehe well I'm homeschooled so I just have to log 180 days and I'm set

Phoenix

Same here

Stephen S

@Phoenix oh ignore that then

Phoenix

Our 180 days extend until June 23

DJMcMayhem

20:22

@StephenS Even if that were true, the inbreeding problem would be significantly worse

Which is an understatement

Stephen S

@DJMcMayhem right you are

VoteToClose

@HelkaHomba Is this language that your using Java 8 compatible?

DJMcMayhem

Significantly isn't a strong enough word lol

@StephenS :D Nice! I was too

trichoplax

For the purposes of a challenge, it might be simpler to model a species that reproduces exclusively by cloning

Stephen S

@DJMcMayhem I can say "was" too in a week

DJMcMayhem

20:24

Congratulations!

Or should I say Congraduations?

Phoenix

You should not.

What is it with TNB and homeschooling.

Riker also

DJMcMayhem

@Phoenix Are you saying you're a homeschooler too?

trichoplax

Homeschooling makes people better at golfing?

Phoenix

@DJMcMayhem I'm not, it just feels like a higher than average proportion of people are.

Mendeleev iirc goes to some sort of e-school so he stays at home too.

trichoplax

It's natural that you would meet a higher proportion here than you would in school

Stephen S

20:26

I think homeschoolers have more free time, so more time to goof around on their computers learning esolangs, but that might just be me

totallyhuman

^ point

Phoenix

I'm at school and I goof of on my computer a lot.

totallyhuman

^ another point

Stephen S

@Phoenix not in your pajamas though :P

totallyhuman

although... they block stack exchange at my school

under "online communities"

Helka Homba

20:29

@VoteToClose I guess so

VoteToClose

@HelkaHomba It might be worth looking into dynamic proxying if you find yourself doing that reflection business often. It's much more optimized.

Also, @Dennis, have you looked further into making TIO links code-snippet friendly with StackExchange?

Helka Homba

@VoteToClose I might just make my own PatriciaTree like you were saying. ("dynamic" sounds like a scary term when applied to Java :P)

Phoenix

@VoteToClose What's wrong with the current TIO links?

VoteToClose

@HelkaHomba Dynamic proxying is the coolest thing I've ever seen in Java.

@Phoenix Nothing. But it takes users to a different page, whereas integrating with code snippets makes users more likely to try answers on their own.

Stephen S

@Phoenix think the JS snippets, just for any TIO language

totallyhuman

20:34

that would have to be implemented by SE

Stephen S

We're due graduation (features) though, and since we're coders we should have some say in our features, right?

VoteToClose

@totallyhuman false XMLHttpRequest is a thing

totallyhuman

hmm

@VoteToClose wut?

you could put tio in a snippet though ^^

VoteToClose

That's what I'm saying lol

Stephen S

@VoteToClose so an API from Dennis plus a bit of JavaScript in a snippet = runnable code in a post

totallyhuman

20:36

^^ not a bad idea

Phoenix

We used to have it in the gradscript but it borked.

VoteToClose

@StephenS thumbs up

@Phoenix I'm familiar. ;P

Phoenix

Not everyone is.

totallyhuman

hehe i dunno why SE allows everybody to make chat rooms

Stephen S

VSCode doesn't let you drag and drop code, it's so annoying

totallyhuman

20:38

that's basically just asking for abuse

TuxCopter

@totallyhuman Not everybody, you need 100 rep IIRC

totallyhuman

100 rep is not hard really

Stephen S

@TuxCopter aka association bonus?

totallyhuman

chat.stackexchange.com/rooms/59715/totallyhumans-room

Phoenix

100 anywhere

Site-independent.

quartata

20:39

@totallyhuman That's not how SE chat works...

totallyhuman

no but that's the point

Riker

prepares banhammers

TuxCopter

rip

totallyhuman

;-;

Stephen S

@totallyhuman hover over the diamond

totallyhuman

20:41

i know...

Riker

huh TIL that

the diamond means that

kinda odd but ok

totallyhuman

it means it's a gallery :P

quartata

No, that's the lock.

totallyhuman

oh

nvm me then

quartata

And the reason the diamond is there is because mods can turn that off

Like, not all mods can enter site mod rooms

Stephen S

20:42

@quartata so mods can lock each other out of rooms?

totallyhuman

hmm what would've happened if i didn't link the room in here

quartata

Yes although not to target people obviously.

@totallyhuman I found it via all rooms

totallyhuman

ah

quartata

So the same result would have happened anyways

Stephen S

Yay I've got a bounty that I answered

Bye rep xD

VoteToClose

20:47

How do I embed JQuery in a code snippet?

Dennis

in talk.tryitonline.net, May 21 at 14:31, by Dennis

How would you, e.g., compare the expected and the actual output? They would be on different parts of the screen and you'd have to scroll.

VoteToClose

@Dennis Fair.

Phoenix

@VoteToClose You think about your life choices and decide against using JQuery.

VoteToClose

@Phoenix Yeah but like it actually really helps here

Stephen S

@Phoenix but this is code-golf and jQuery is twice as short 0.o

Adnan

20:54

@kalsowerus Yeah, the docs are lacking that right now. The best explanation can be found here.

you can also use the compressor but it only works for a limited number of lowercase words

L3viathan

Is cat usually considered a programming language for PPCG?

totallyhuman

no

L3viathan

Then, is there an esolang where the empty program prints whats in the filename of its argument?

Business Cat

Not that I know of

totallyhuman

probably lol

Transcript for