The Nineteenth Byte

Anonymous

20:00

@Riker If it was allowed, it would be on the default i/o methods post

Anonymous

I don't know if it's there or not

Anonymous

→ 1 message moved to Trash

Anonymous

@totallyhuman Please don't post nonsense.

Adám

@Riker Trying to understand chatiquette. How was that message allowed?

Fatalize

Sometimes I feel like Riker's main contribution nowadays in chat is posting images found on Reddit

Adám

20:08

@Mego totallyhuman at least posted something related to programming. Possibly frustration with Java, or an exclamation based on how un-golfy Java is. Riker's image has no apparent (to me, at least) context in this chat room, nor any connection to programming contests or code-golf. Maybe on english.SE it would be appropriate because of the peculiarity of English pronunciation of bread vs bred.

Anonymous

@Adám There's a significant difference between posting a funny image to chat and entering, saying one nonsense message, and immediately leaving.

Fatalize

That would be true if Riker didn't post such images at least twice a day, or so it seems

Anonymous

I agree that it's a bit much at times.

Anonymous

@Riker Could you please tone down the frequency of your image posts? It's getting to the point where they're making up a large portion of your chat contributions.

Riker

sorry

Christopher

20:33

Hello. @ATaco why are so many users red users?

CMC: Write some regex that matches only one other regex. That regex it matches must match regex A. They may not be the same regex

Adám

@Christopher What is a red user?

Christopher

@Adám It is a userscript thing/challenge thing.

Adám

@Christopher I'm clueless.

Christopher

26

Q: Team of The Hill!

Note: if you would like to participate, you need to register. This challenge was inspired by @HelkaHomba's excellent challenge Red vs. Blue - Pixel Team Battlebots. That challenge was probably the best one I've seen on this site. Ever. My challenge is still a lot different, but HelkaHomba dese...

Comrade SparklePony

@Adnan Does 05AB1E have a remove duplicates command? There are a couple of times when I have wanted one.

Anonymous

20:42

@Christopher Luck of the draw?

Anonymous

It is a bit odd that most TNB regulars have even chat IDs

Zachary T

O_O

Adám

@Mego So it's odd that I'm odd because I'm odd?

Riley

@ComradeSparklePony Ù is pop a push uniquified a. Is that what you're looking for?

Anonymous

@Adám Yes, oddly enough

Luis Mendo

20:52

@Riker I would say something like: "May nothing bind us, so nothing will tie us".

I'd like to replace "tie" by something more literary. "Amarrar" sounds somewhat literary

I see now that my translation is not that much different from the one you linked :-)

Zachary T

@Adám, I have to ask, why do you consistently use the ‽ mark in your sentences?

Riker

@LuisMendo ah, okay

Luis Mendo

@Riker From The Princess Bride :-)

Riker

yep

Luis Mendo

I like that quote

And that character for that matter

Adám

20:54

@ZacharyT Why‽ Why not‽ Because it so exactly fits what I'm often trying to express.

Riker

lol

Luis Mendo

Oh, and the music! Mark Knopfler is such a great composer

Adnan

@ComradeSparklePony Yup, Riley is right. And if you also want to automatically sort it, you can also use ê

Zachary T

I understand why your using it. But, I'm wondering as to why you use the unicode ‽ rather than ?! and/or !?. Do you have it on your keyboard or something?

Riker

it's on mine

Adám

20:58

@ZacharyT I think ?! and !? are ugly, and I've made my own keyboard layout that has it.

Zachary T

Oh, that makes sense.

Adám

I've reserved 6 keys as prefix keys, so I've got about a thousand available slots.

Zachary T

Wow.

Christopher

I applied for my first job and didn't get it (ノ°Д°）ノ︵ ┻━┻

The problem was they really don't need under 18 part timers. They need over 18 full timers.

Zachary T

Anything but those unicode faces.

Adám

21:04

@ZacharyT E.g. my I key produces iI⍳⍸íîìïÍÎÌⒾ.

Christopher

@Mego I guess

Zachary T

I could guess the ⍳ and ⍸.

Anonymous

Let's not do the chain of faces thing

Zachary T

^^^

Conor O'Brien

gotcha mr. room owner sir

Anonymous

21:06

→ 3 messages moved to Trash

Adám

@Mego Oh no, I'm demonstrating my APL keyboard layout.

Conor O'Brien

oh come now, that's a tad excessive

Adám

@ConorO'Brien Was that meant at me?

Conor O'Brien

no, to mego

Anonymous

@ConorO'Brien So were the faces

Christopher

21:07

@ConorO'Brien I would agree but I don't want to annoy a RO

Conor O'Brien

two wrongs don't make a right

4

I mean, you're the RO, and you do you, but I'm saying, I don't think the trash was entirely necessary. A warning was sufficient, and if it continued, by all means, use the trash

Adám

@ZacharyT All the other characters are valid APL identifiers.

Anonymous

@ConorO'Brien The trash can is for getting rid of messages that don't belong in the room. It's not a disciplinary action. Warning + trash is the ideal solution to a small problem like that one.

Anonymous

If it had continued, then kicks would've been issued.

Christopher

The irony is 3 messages getting trashed caused 12 messages about it to be posted.

Zachary T

21:10

Woah, thanks didn know they were valid identifier names.

Adám

@Mego Whoa, I didn't mean to spam at all, only to inspire others who might need lots of special chars for golfing langs.

Zachary T

*didn't, was in French keyboard for some reason.

Conor O'Brien

@Mego that's quite arbitrary IMO. what's to stop an RO from trashing a side discussion that "doesn't belong"? nothing much, as it seems

Anonymous

@ConorO'Brien ROs are expected to use their discretion when moderating. A side discussion that was disrupting other discussions (especially PPCG-related discussions) would be moved to its own room, not to the trash. Nonsense gets trashed.

Conor O'Brien

I wouldn't quite call it nonsense--no more nonsense than the average bad pun

I do applaud you for doing your job tho, what you says makes sense.

Adám

21:14

@all How do you insert special chars for golfing langs with custom char sets?

Christopher

I mean Mego stole my puns under the homestead act

Zachary T

What do you have as your dead keys, @Adám?

Anonymous

@Adám Copy-and-paste from a document with all CP437 chars and their uses

Adám

@ZacharyT AltGr+Shift+A,W,S,R,Y,U

It's easy to remember, AWS form a ^, they are ´^`

Anonymous

Also if it's a char whose ordinal I remember, I'll just alt-code it in

Adám

21:16

APL+Shift+T is ⍨ in standard Dyalog mapping, (I use AltGr as APL key), so it is surrounded by its parts: R is ¨ and Y is ~.

Adnan

@Adám alt-gr on windows

for cp1252

Adám

U is _

Anonymous

For example, I know ♂ is ALT-11, but I don't remember ⌠ and ⌡ off the top of my head, so I have to copy those in

Conor O'Brien

@Adám for APL, I do the ` + key thing. for other languages, I google them (since most languages I use tend to be exclusively ascii)

Zachary T

Yeah, same here Conor.

Adám

21:19

@ConorO'Brien ` as shifting or as prefix key?

Conor O'Brien

as a prefix key

Zachary T

Like TryAPL

Conor O'Brien

^

Zachary T

I've got to set up a custom keyboard mapping for IPA and APL (combined) sometime.

Adám

´^`¨~_ are taken with a lot of breadth. E.g. ~1 gives ¹

@ConorO'Brien I could never use a prefix key for APL. I tend to type multiple APL chars at a time, so I hold down my right thumb (or left pinky, CapsLock=AltGr) while I type with my other fingers.

Conor O'Brien

21:22

oh, that makes sense

Adám

CMC for a given n, generate (1...n)/n

Anonymous

@Adám Is that sum(range(1,n+1))/n?

Adám

^^ I'd type that as AltGr+i = \

@Mego no, the result is a list of n items

Anonymous

Oh

Adám

the last item is n

the first is 1/n

Anonymous

21:25

Wait so it's not [x/n for x in range(1,n+1)]?

Adám

e.g. f(10) = 0.1 0.2 0.3 0.4 0.5 0.6 0.7 0.8 0.9 1

Anonymous

Oh ok

Anonymous

Actually, 4 bytes: ;R♀/

Zachary T

APL, 3 bytes: ⍳÷⊢

Adám

@ZacharyT Well, yes, I gave that away, didn't I?

Comrade SparklePony

21:27

@Adnan @Riley Thanks.

Adnan

no problem

Adám

@ZacharyT But you had to do six key presses, while I only did four.

Nick Clifford

@Adám Ohm, 3 bytes

Adám

heh, new scoring method: keypresses. a new category of challenges: golf your keyboard. So you may only use a keyboard layout that existed at the time of posting the challenge.

Zachary T

(AKA everything is Vim)

Adám

21:30

@NickClifford How many key presses?

Christopher

People. How do I compress text into DEFLATE stream or a LZMA 2 stream?

Adám

@Mego How many key presses?

Anonymous

@Adám 5: ;R<M-12>/

Riley

@Adám 05AB1E, 2 (3 for shift?) keypresses: L/

Adám

@Riley That doesn't look right. The first term should be 0.2.

Anonymous

21:32

Modifier keys count for keypresses

Conor O'Brien

@Adám does APL have some sort of "uniq by"? E.g., in a list of pairs, unique by second element?

Anonymous

@Adám That would be interesting

Riley

Oops, that was n/(1..n)

Christopher

@Dennis how do I compress text for bubblegum?

Riley

4 keypresses: Ls/

Adám

21:33

@ConorO'Brien Not as a primitive. Hang on.

Conor O'Brien

ok

Luis Mendo

@Adám MATL, 3 bytes: :G/

Mayube

wait I'm confused if the first item is 1/n and the last item is n, shouldn't there be 100 items in the output for 10?

Riley

@Mego Can I not count shift if I was yelling the last thing I said (i.e. caps lock was on)?

Adám

@LuisMendo How many key presses?

Luis Mendo

21:34

Huh? Not bytes?

Adám

@Riley Only if CapsLock was on before the challenge was posted.

Anonymous

@Christopher I think there's a program floating around somewhere that automatically determines the best compression method out of the 4 supported methods and compresses the text

Adám

5 mins ago, by Adám

heh, new scoring method: keypresses. a new category of challenges: golf your keyboard. So you may only use a keyboard layout that existed at the time of posting the challenge.

Anonymous

Ooh, CapsLock is an important consideration. This new scoring method would have to assume that CapsLock is off prior to typing.

Christopher

@Mego Yay... I think I will have to look for that

Anonymous

21:35

Standard keyboard setup: capslock off, numlock on, scroll lock nobody actually knows what it does

Adám

@LuisMendo Yes.

Mayube

@Mego I know what it does

Zachary T

Yeah, because @Adám was doing that with AltGr.

Christopher

Or I will just ping Dennis 24/7! That won't cause any problems!

Zachary T

That seems excessive.

Luis Mendo

21:36

@Adám Sorry, I messed up the message

4 keypresses then

Initial shift, then three keys while Shift pressed

Mayube

wait on your keyboard you have to Shift to type /?

Luis Mendo

Yep. Spanish layout

Mayube

Huh, fair nuff

Luis Mendo

It's on the key "7"

Adám

@ConorO'Brien {⍵[∪⍳⍨2⊃¨⍵]}

Conor O'Brien

21:37

oo, selection, nice

Anonymous

It would still be 4 on US standard layout, but you'd release the shift before the /

Adám

@Mayube No, it is the bottom-rightmost key.

Anonymous

@Adám On US layouts, sure

Anonymous

Spanish layout

Adám

So it may be advantageous to enter all shifted keys, then press left e.g. Ctrl-LeftArrow and then an unshifted key.

Anonymous

21:40

You should make a challenge about this: given a string, output the shortest series of keystrokes needed to type that string

Adám

But this is actually pretty cool. If code golfing is about entering as little as possible, what good is it to have to copy from a map all the time. Keypresses!

@Mego Using which layout?

New Sandboxed Posts

0

A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

ASCII art quine-variant quineascii-artpopularity-contest Your task is to make a program that, when run, produces ASCII art in the exact shape of the source code. (Insert better description here. I can't think of how to better phrase the challenge but I know what I've got won't be sufficient. H...

Anonymous

@Adám Layouts can be analogous to programming languages: it's a competition within layouts

Conor O'Brien

@Adám J, 8 keypresses: %~1+i.

Luis Mendo

@Mego Thanks! Yup, that one

Anonymous

21:41

@ConorO'Brien You can do it in 7 with a numpad plus key

Conor O'Brien

true

two keypress, ctrl+V :P

Anonymous

Yeah but you'd need more keypresses to select the text and C-c it

Adám

@Mego I've got my NumPad / remapped to End because this silly ASUS laptop has Home but not End!

Anonymous

@Adám That's ridiculous!

Conor O'Brien

Anonymous

21:43

So it doesn't even have one of the numpad numbers operating at End with numlock off?

Adám

@Mego Funny thing is that right to the left of Home is Delete. There is no dedicated Insert, but Fn+Delete is Insert. Fn+Home does nothing!

Anonymous

@ConorO'Brien Kill it with fire

Mayube

@ConorO'Brien honestly if the scroll lock wasn't so big and the insert wasn't on delete I wouldn't mind that

Conor O'Brien

@Mayube it has no arrow keys

Zachary T

O_O

Anonymous

21:44

WASD is superior anyway :P

Mayube

hmm good point

not for moving through text

Conor O'Brien

the enter is obscene, the fn key is obnoxious, you need to do fn + menu to do windows...

Adám

@Mego It does. But I cannot keep numpad off, because ⌽ is mapped to AltGr+NumPadPeriod, because Win10Pro refuses to let me map ALtGr+Shift+5.

Mayube

enter isn't really that obscene

Christopher

@HelkaHomba's sock

Zachary T

21:45

^ (Mayube's post)

Conor O'Brien

it's got a uselessly thin handle tho :P

Anonymous

@Adám You could just do a quick toggle when it's needed

Adám

@ConorO'Brien What is that‽

Anonymous

@Adám An abomination

Conor O'Brien

@Adám r/mechanicalkeyboards

Adám

21:47

@Mego Nah, I can't handle state toggling. It appears Fn temporarily swaps NumLock state. Maybe I could get used to Fn+1=End, but I want my navigation keys to be instant access, not shifted.

@Mego It isn't real, is it?

Zachary T

ACTUALLY, an abomination is if there were a keyboard where everything except a few keys are dead

Mayube

@ZacharyT keyboard works fine, but the backspace and delete keys are both dead

Zachary T

umm... backspace dead key?

Adám

@Mayube Or a totally normal keyboard, but Enter is dead. Need Ctrl+Alt+Shift+F3,AltGr+Space to do Enter.

Comrade SparklePony

CMC: Write a program that, when run, outputs all the names of the files in the same folder as it, in alphabetical order, delimited in some way.

ASCII-only

21:50

@ComradeSparklePony shell + binutils, 2 bytes: ls

user281949

did i do this right

user281949

2

A: A program that deletes itself

Nodejs, 32 bytes require("fs").unlink(__filename)

ASCII-only

@HombaHelka Yes

Conor O'Brien

@HombaHelka yup

Mayube

oh wow Braingolf is actually quite slow

ASCII-only

21:53

@ComradeSparklePony JavaScript (Node), 39 bytes: require('fs').readdir('.', console.log) (prints null before directory listing if that's okay)

Mayube

took 8 seconds to run a script that populates the stack with every number from 1 to 1000

Zachary T

Is Braingolf new?

Mayube

Ye

Adám

@ComradeSparklePony APL: {⍵[⍋↑⍵]}⊃⎕NINFO⍠1⊢'*'

Zachary T

How much progress is there & when did it start?

user281949

21:56

this site is confusing

user281949

i made answer and it changed

Zachary T

Are you new here?

Mayube

@ZacharyT Not a great deal & last week some time Github

user281949

yes

Mayube

@HombaHelka welcome to PPCG!

Zachary T

21:58

Better than mine. bitbucket.org/zacharyjtaylor/my-language

ASCII-only

@ComradeSparklePony Python: print(__import__("os").listdir()), Perl + Linux: print`ls`

Mayube

@HombaHelka it looks like somebody just edited in the proper answer formatting for you. I suggest reading up on headers and code formatting in Markdown, which is what StackExchange uses for post formatting

user281949

@Mayube tks

Conor O'Brien

um

Zachary T

By the way Mayube, you don't need semicolons in Python.

Adám

21:59

user281949

@Mayube oh. wat does 32 bytes mean

Mayube

@ZacharyT I'm aware. You also don't need them in JS. I still use em

Conor O'Brien

@HombaHelka if you aren't helka homba, I'd suggest changing your name to avoid confusion

Zachary T

Python's style doesn't recommend ;. (And it's one more byte)

Mayube

@HombaHelka The challenge you responded to is a "code golf" challenge (as are most challenges posted on PPCG), the goal of such challenges is to complete the task in as few bytes of code as possible. 32 bytes means your code takes 32 bytes. In the vast majority of normal languages, 1 byte = 1 character

@ZacharyT And Java's style recommends sameline open braces yet I still newline 'em. Plus the language is supposed to be golfy, doesn't mean I have to golf the interpreter :P

user281949

22:03

@Mayube ok. tks!

Zachary T

The more used shortening is thx, FYI.

Mayube

@ZacharyT 3 bytes is 3 bytes :P

Zachary T

Yeah, @HombaHelka, this site gets competitive. Entire languages are created to compete.

And, he's gone.

Helka Homba

What the

Zachary T

Also, you don't need to come whenever you're mentioned: @HombaHelka

Helka Homba

22:08

@HombaHelka is not me

7

Zachary T

I see the confusion now.

Odd timing

New Main Posts

1

Q: Swap indexes and values

The task Write a program or function whose input is a list/array X of integers, and whose output is a list of sets of integers Y, such that for each element e in each set Y[i], X[e] = i, and such that the total number of elements in the sets in Y equals the number of elements in X. (This is bas...

code-golf array-manipulation sorting

Zachary T

@HelkaHomba why is this starred?

Mayube

Because somebody starred it

Helka Homba

^

Zachary T

22:14

o_O. I am asking why that message is star-worthy.

Helka Homba

So people know HombaHelka is not me, since as @conor said it would be otherwise confusing.

Conor O'Brien

that is so weird, why would he choose that name

Mayube

People'll star anything these days

2

ASCII-only

@ConorO'Brien And that avatar

Mayube

@ConorO'Brien his avatar is also @HelkaHomba 's avatar inverted

Conor O'Brien

22:15

yes I got that

Zachary T

Yeah, unless it has some other relevance outside of PPCG.

Does it?

Conor O'Brien

I mean he has a small-ish youtube channel

Zachary T

What is small-ish?

And what is its content?

Helka Homba

Well, @HombaHelka I'm hoping you're a fan of my videos or challenges and if so I'll take your impersonation as flattery :) But if you spend a lot of time here it would be best to use a different name so people don't get confused.

Conor O'Brien

channel, minecraft, 252 subs

Zachary T

22:20

Eh, sυppοse it cουld be wοrse. (Unicode tοmfοοlery)

Ηεy, @Downgoat is here!

Helka Homba

@Adám Who needs such a big scroll lock? o.O

Adám

@HelkaHomba It is a joke.

This one is real though: Look carefully. Where did the punctuation keys go?

Zachary T

Everywhere.

New Main Posts

-1

Q: raise integer x to power x, not using language builtin functions

Use of exponentiation exp(), ln(), and power language builtins, like pow(), x^x, x**x is restricted. Must give correct results. Test cases for x are 0,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9 Code must compiled/interpretated w/o errors. I mean, you should write all required things. For C f(x){return x;} is 8 bytes sho...

code-golf

Zachary T

0^0 ?

Mayube

22:26

jesus, the Braingolf code for the first Project Euler challenge is surprisngly long

56 bytes

Zachary T

𐌈_𐌈

Mayube

91+3^3/1-0VR[3!+>$_<.M]$&_91+3^5/2-0[5!+>$_<.3%?.M:|]v&+

it works doe

Zachary T

What was Euler #1 again?

Mayube

calculate the sum of every multiple of 3 or 5 below 1000

Zachary T

𐍈𐎐𐒠

Adám

22:32

@ZacharyT 1

Helka Homba

So Trump just fired FBI director Comey

Zachary T

1 Whαt? Strιke?

trichoplax

1 hour ago, by Zachary T

Anything but those unicode faces.

ASCII-only

@ZacharyT 1 is the answer to 0**0 (0 xor 0 is 0 though)

Zachary T

Oh, yeah.

Rεvεngε ις ςο ςωεετ

trichoplax

22:36

Revenge is a dish best served elsewhere

Zachary T

wow, nice οne.

Adám

0⍟0 0*0 0÷0 0!0 all give 1 in APL. (No Unicode faces here — I'm serious.)

ASCII-only

0

A: Make text triangle waves

Fish, 183 bytes 1+&01-1001. v+-*4b{~p@-$*8b}:g1$1:*2c:< >{:0)?v~{{1+$:@@:@)?v~>1+:&:&(?v ^ ^ o:<v@-10oa0 v?(1:<> ^ ^ < o" "@-10< > ^ Try it online! Golfing still in progress

trichoplax

@ZacharyT I'm not recommending revenge, just saying it isn't welcome here

ASCII-only

Ugh finally, I still need to golf it though ;_;

Zachary T

22:40

Yep. And 0=0 0≡0

Adám

@ZacharyT no, they give 0

Zachary T

SORRY, I completely derped out there.

trichoplax

@Adám Unicode faces are noise. Incredibly information rich code seems the opposite of noise...

Adám

@ZacharyT But ⌈ ⌊ - + × ∧ ∨ ⊣ ⊢ ⊥ ⊤ all give 0, obviously.

Zachary T

Um. < and >. Derp. 0=0

0<=0 is true.

Adám

22:44

@ZacharyT Yeah, sorry, my turn to blunder.

Zachary T

Don't forget ⍲⍱≤≥

(for 1)

Adám

CMC: as many as possible 1-byte programs in any single language which, when fed the inputs 0 and 0 give 0.

Zachary T

What does CMC even stand for?

Adám

@ZacharyT Chat Mini Challenge

@Adám APL, 21: ⌈⌊-+×∧∨⊣⊢⊥⊤<>≠≢∪∩↓⌽⊖⍕

Zachary T

Does a 0 on the stack count?

Adám

22:53

@ZacharyT All per PPCG default rules; yes.

Zachary T

BrainFuck: 249 (all but []<>-+,)

Is that acceptable?

Adám

@ZacharyT But do they actually take two inputs?

Riker

@HombaHelka are you a sock of a current SE user?

Adám

@Riker What's a sock?

Zachary T

Sock Puppet

Riker

22:56

another account, belonging to a pre-existing user

often used to do bad stuff, like upvote the main account's posts

Zachary T

If they're a sock of @HelkaHomba, it'd be too easy.

trichoplax

They do a pretty good impression of being new to SE if they are

Zachary T

Yeah, not to mention Code Golf.

ASCII-only

@ZacharyT Brainfuck uses a tape btw

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