The Nineteenth Byte

geometry game
compression graphical-output or image-processing
polyglot chess
graph-theory stack
internet compression
audio decision-problem
regular-expression random
balanced-string chess
fibonacci probability-theory
base-conversion geometry
geometry ascii-art
interpreter (?) binary
cryptography (?) palindrome
matrix graph-theory
string parsing (?)
combinatorics restricted-source
geometry polyglot
code-generation binary
fibonacci file-system
date (?) binary
path-finding (?) game
decision-problem restricted-source

Helka Homba

uhh

thats ok

ETHproductions

I got game decision-problem

Downgoat

@Dennis can't you just submit a DEFLATE stream or whatever now that non-programming languages are allowed to be used?

Helka Homba

I'll choose from busy-beaver/sequence, graph-theory/restricted-source, printable-ascii/grid

Mendeleev

@Downgoat That's a Bubblegum program!

Downgoat

1:25 AM

I know, but there is no need for "bubblegum wrapper" anymore

Dennis

^

Wheat Wizard

brain-flak knot-theory >:D

4

Mendeleev

@Downgoat lol @ "bubblegum wrapper"

ETHproductions

There's a list of tags to choose from, you know :P

Helka Homba

@Downgoat Bubblegum is a normal language when the hash is a certain value

Downgoat

1:26 AM

>_< pun not intended

quartata

@HelkaHomba Mine was not random

Downgoat

@HelkaHomba well yeah, so it would be a valid programming language but that doesn't need to be the case anymore

ETHproductions

Second try: ascii-art audio

Helka Homba

@quartata oh, and busy-beaver is not even on the list

but meh

Anonymous

Python 3 tag randomizer

ETHproductions

1:34 AM

I'm trying to write a JSFiddle to do this, but for some reason the HTML section is not recognizing a function from the JS section

Mendeleev

@Downgoat since when?

ETHproductions

JSFiddle tag randomizer

Downgoat

8

Q: Do submissions have to be answered with a programming language?

We've got various answers strewn across meta that tell different stories: On the standard loopholes, we disallow answers that aren't programming languages. This appears to be the most definitive answer of the lot. It has a vote count of 16/-8. However, on a question that asks "Should answers ...

discussion

Mendeleev

@Downgoat oic

Downgoat

Imo it's pretty bad idea but GIF answers amirte?

Anonymous

1:40 AM

It's a terrible idea

Anonymous

And Nathan's answer has so many strawman arguments you'd think it was a cornfield

Downgoat

> Disallowing non-programming languages is like disallowing arbitrary classes of languages.

what how

if they are not a language, excluding them is not excluding a language

Anonymous

Exactly

Anonymous

I gave up on arguing about that answer long ago, because Nathan and I were constantly talking crossways and making no progress

ETHproductions

> As long as they produce the right output with given input, they are fine.

That's basically how I see it

feersum

1:43 AM

I would totally tell someone writing HTML they are not programming.

Anonymous

@ETHproductions If you reduce it down to that rule, MetaGolfScript is allowed.

Anonymous

@feersum That, and I'd ask why they're not using a designer.

ETHproductions

@Mego That's a separate loophole...

Anonymous

You wouldn't say that a person making brushstrokes on a canvas is programming

ETHproductions

Each MetaGolfScript is still technically a programming language anyway

Anonymous

1:46 AM

@ETHproductions You can't both have that loophole and say "As long as they produce the right output with given input, they are fine." They're incompatible statements. Either there must be more rules to prevent MetaGolfScript, or MetaGolfScript is acceptable.

Anonymous

Same with "Programming Language Created To Solve This Challenge" (PLCTSTC for short)

ETHproductions

I'm sorry, I had assumed loopholes override other consensus-es (consensi?). If that's not the case then "If it's actually a valid programming language and it can answer, then it's allowed to answer" also allows MetaGolfScript.

Anonymous

@ETHproductions Well "no non-programming languages" is a loophole.

Dennis

That's why we need the list Martin talked about on meta. As far as I'm concerned, we have Peter's only these programming languages are allowed at +63, so as long as Nathan's use whatever you want doesn't come anywhere near that, the former takes precedence.

ETHproductions

@Mego Oh, OK. If I combine them into one loophole ("If the answer creates the right output with the given input, and doesn't contain data in the name of the language, it can answer.") does that fix it?

Anonymous

1:52 AM

@Dennis That's my reasoning also.

ETHproductions

@Dennis Hmm, where's Peter's answer on this subject?

Dennis

63

A: What are programming languages?

My previous answer was criticised for not drawing a line in a sand, so following some discussion on chat I propose a line. Executive Summary A purported programming language should be accepted as such if and only if it is capable of addition of natural numbers and primality testing of natural n...

Anonymous

And even if the community consensus is that non-programming languages are allowed by default, I'll disallow them in every challenge I write.

Anonymous

@ETHproductions No, because not only is that unclear, it also doesn't come close to solving the problems at hand.

ETHproductions

Yes, it would take a full-blown answer to make it perfectly clear...

Anonymous

1:55 AM

We don't have a well-defined method for overriding previous consensuses, which is proving to be a problem

ETHproductions

Yep

I do see the logic in preferring Peter's answer though, without an overriding system set up

Anonymous

But trying to deal with the intricacies of politics makes this site very unfun. It would be a lot nicer if people would just follow the spirit of the site without needing lines drawn in the sand.

Helka Homba

I'm betting PPCG rules boil down to Godel's incompleteness theorem. Deep down we'll never know if they're consistent :P

Anonymous

@HelkaHomba But then we'd have to prove it... :P

Downgoat

@Dennis I would say they're different. Peters is the consensus for what a programming lang is. Nathan's is watery you need to answer in one

Wheat Wizard

1:58 AM

@HelkaHomba I'm betting our rules are complete, i.e. contradictory

Helka Homba

@Downgoat watery?

Anonymous

Knowing us, we'd manage to be both incomplete and inconsistent

ETHproductions

Forgive me if I'm wrong, but if this comes down to "if it's in the spirit of PPCG" then Bubblegum almost certainly falls on the same side of the line as "non-programming languages".

Dennis

@Downgoat The question begins with Often, answers to questions asking for "programs" or talking about "programming languages".

Wheat Wizard

Wow the first 6 messages on the star board all have 3 stars

Anonymous

2:00 AM

@ETHproductions Yeah I'm not a big fan of Bubblegum. I choose to believe that Bubblegum was an example of how we'll always have languages that skirt the line of acceptability, and people took off with it and started using it seriously. I prefer that version of events to whatever the actual history is :P

Helka Homba

@ETHproductions I'd agree with that. Simple answer is to not upvote or even downvote them

ETHproductions

No matter how we lay the rules there will always be things that are technically legal, but not in the spirit of PPCG

Dennis

@Mego Bubblegum was meant as a critique to both our definition of programming languages and KC challenges that cannot be efficiently solved by a clever method.

Note that it almost never wins, but it provides some sort of measuring stick for different approaches.

Anonymous

Yeah, I'm also not a fan of those KC challenges. I'm glad we have the consensus that they should be closed as dupes. I'm extra glad that I have a hammer to make that happen.

ETHproductions

@HelkaHomba That's similar to what I was just thinking. We could stress less about the technicalities and just downvote things that aren't in the spirit of PPCG

New Main Posts

2:04 AM

0

Q: Make a string from a string!

Instructions Your goal is to write code that makes a "string" from a string in the least amount of bytes possible, as per the rules of code-golf. Standard loophole rules apply. To make a string, you have to assume the string contains only alphabetical characters and basic punctuation such as th...

string

Helka Homba

@Mego Ok, I had the seed of an idea going with these involving the 4-color theorem and 4 character classes (lowercase, upper, symbol, digit) for rectangular programs but now I'm getting distracted and hungry so I give up.

Anonymous

@HelkaHomba That would be a neat idea

Anonymous

And you've also made me hungry

ETHproductions

@NewMainPosts I swear there was a Calvin's Hobbies challenge almost exactly like this one

found it: codegolf.stackexchange.com/q/55593/42545

Anonymous

I don't get to hammer it because I added the code golf tag :(

ETHproductions

2:10 AM

I could hammer it, but it's not an exact dupe for sure

You comment-ninja'd me there though

Anonymous

Mine was auto-generated

Anonymous

The only real difference is the lines, which isn't enough for me to not consider it a dupe

ETHproductions

And the fact that you have to ignore non-letters, and ignore case

Anonymous

Ignoring case is as simple as converting everything to upper- or lowercase

Anonymous

And stripping non-letters is also simple

Riker

2:30 AM

@Mego 'make your program an eulerian cycle'

ATaco

For the Grapher, you can now return a matrix of either x,y or x,y,z for an input of a and ab respectively.

Riker

lol

ATaco

StackExchange eats the * symbol from links.

Anonymous

Why aren't you escaping * in links?

Riker

^

ATaco

2:33 AM

Javascript's encodeURI function doesn't implicitly do it.

Because it's perfectly valid to have a * in a link.

Anonymous

Well, I found your problem

ATaco

And StackExchange will try to onebox a link containing a *.

Then it eats it.

Helka Homba

@ATaco How to a-ta.co/graph/y=x^2 ?

ATaco

f(x)=x^2

y=x isn't supported.

Helka Homba

a-ta.co/graph/f(x)=x%5E2 -> "Could not load function: /f(x)=x^2"

ATaco

2:40 AM

a-ta.co/grapher

Just use the grapher.

It makes building the graphs easier.

Downgoat

Question: does left or right look better?

Helka Homba

If you go in one do you come out the other?

But left

Anonymous

There's even cake

Mendeleev

Left

@Mego what about the odd cake

Helka Homba

Liar

Mendeleev

2:44 AM

this was a triumph

Helka Homba

have I got a little story for you

Anonymous

proper story's supposed to start at the beginning

Helka Homba

@Mego now you've lost me

Mendeleev

@HelkaHomba ^

Anonymous

It's a different game

Helka Homba

2:51 AM

I hope someone got my pj reference

Anonymous

Of course :)

Riker

@Downgoat depends on the other

Downgoat

@Riker the other?

Riker

@Mego that game was hte best game ever

@Downgoat sorry, qwertial aphasia

*background

@HelkaHomba from bastion iirc

Anonymous

Yep, Bastion was fantastic

Mendeleev

2:53 AM

@Riker How does one go from "other" to "background"

Downgoat

@Riker english-request

quartata

@Downgoat update chatexchange source python

Mendeleev

@Downgoat qwertial = keyboard, aphasia = loss of ability to understand or express speech, caused by brain damage.

Downgoat

@quartata can I like give you ssh access to tf2 server folder and you can ssh

quartata

Why?

Riker

2:58 AM

@Downgoat ^

quartata

Just clone the repo and copy chatexchange/ to tf/addons/source-python/Python3 @Downgoat

Riker

@Mendeleev nsfw much?

@Mego I kinda like transistor better

Downgoat

ok made minor changes, does still look alright on your display?

user165474

@Mendeleev NSFW, don't say stuff like that again.

Mendeleev

3:13 AM

sorry

Dobby The Free-Elf

for(let i=0; i<users.length; i++){

users[i].reputation += 10e5;

user165474

@Dobby Remove backticks

Dobby The Free-Elf

Ah no

I couldn't add the closing brace

And you typed!

Again :-

user165474

HEHE >:-)

Dobby The Free-Elf

Wait

Pavel

3:21 AM

The entire thing can be one line for all it matters.

Dobby The Free-Elf

No wait! Please

Again :-

Pavel

It's too late, you're not getting this back.

Dobby The Free-Elf

hey no

Just a minute

user165474

for(let i=0;i<users.length;i++)users[i].reputation+=10e5;

user165474

@Dobby 0/10 ungolfed code

Pavel

3:23 AM

What's even the point of said code?

user165474

for (let i = 0; i < users.length; i++) {
    users[i].reputation += 10e5;
}

user165474

@Pavel Adds one hundred thousand to each user's reputation

Dobby The Free-Elf

for(let i=0; i<stackexchange.rooms[240].users.length; i++) stackexchange.rooms[240].users[i].reputation += 10e5

Ah, finished

Pavel

What are you trying to achieve? There's no context, it's just a splat of code that doesn't actually do anything interesting.

user165474

For one thing, what language is this even meant to be?

Pavel

3:26 AM

I think it's JS?

Dobby The Free-Elf

It certainly is

user165474

let k;for(let i=0;i<(k=stackexchange.rooms[240].users).length;i++)k[i].reputation+=10e5

user165474

0/10 ungolfed code

user165474

Does let exist in JS?

Pavel

Mate. let k,i;for(i=0 ...

Dobby The Free-Elf

3:27 AM

It does in es6

Pavel

Actually IDK if ^^ works in JS

Dobby The Free-Elf

And it's lexically scoped

user165474

let k=stackexchange.rooms[240].users,i=k.length;while(--i)k[i].reputation+=10e5

Dobby The Free-Elf

@Pavel I think it will work since assignment returns the assigned value.

But I am not sure

Nor willing to try

user165474

Let works tested in chrome

user165474

3:29 AM

Though you could just use var since we know that works >_>

Dobby The Free-Elf

var looks ugly, though

user165474

:P

Riker

anybody here used maya?

@DobbyTheFree-Elf @HyperNeutrino damnit you guys look exactly the same to me

@Pavel isn't helped but he's actually distinguishable

Pavel

let k,i=(k=stackexchange.rooms[240].users).length;while(--i)k[i].reputation+=10e5

Riker

@Downgoat hmm

a more yellow background might look nice

Pavel

3:32 AM

That is not shorter, darn.

Riker

to kinda evoke that old aged book feel

Downgoat

@Riker instead of blue/orange?

Riker

it's blue now isn't it?

Dobby The Free-Elf

@Riker Autodesk Maya?

Riker

the white background is lightly blue tinted

@DobbyTheFree-Elf yea

Pavel

3:33 AM

@Riker I have no idea what that's saying.

user165474

@Riker Well too bad :P Our names look different though

Riker

your avatar is very similar to dobby's and hyper's

@HyperNeutrino that assumes I can read those

@Riker I haven't

hm, okay

Used Maya

3:33 AM

@Pavel your avatar is similar to their two, but it's a bit yellower

@Downgoat the background right now is white

Pavel

Nah. It's close, but it's clearly distinct at a glance.

Riker

it would look nicer if it's a slightly warmer white, maybe a vanilla

Downgoat

@Riker oh, of the book

I see will try

Riker

not that no

@Downgoat the page background

left side of image >_> it's pure white atm, I'm saying tint it yellow

and maybe use the orange icon at the top instead of the blue one then

Downgoat

oooohhhh

@Riker even backgronud behind text?

Riker

3:36 AM

yea

uh-huh

Dobby The Free-Elf

John Doe owns a store?

Riker

@Downgoat "stories" implies "books" to me

what it looks like right now is more evocative of scifi futuristic clean white holoboards or something like that (idk what I just said but you get hte picture)

Dobby The Free-Elf

Perhaps he rents his name to programmers for testing

their programs

Riker

@DobbyTheFree-Elf vihan.org/p/stories/story.html#3 is what I'm referring to btw

Downgoat

@Riker how does this look?

Riker

3:39 AM

great

testing the orange icon locally 1 sec

TuxCopter

why do windows keep telling me that my Outlook account settings are out of date?

I never used Outlook

Riker

it's all MS's mind tricks to try to get you to use outlook

Dobby The Free-Elf

Ah nice

Story

Riker

@TuxCopter email app on my phone does the same thing

I only use the gmail app, never stock email :p

user165474

@Riker lol wait can you read them?

Riker

3:42 AM

not without glasses

I had to click on your profiles to figure out hte diff

user165474

Riker

@Downgoat yeah, I like the yellow background with the orange book a lot

user165474

@Riker Oh. i see.

Riker

10/10 font and spacing though

user165474

@HyperNeutrino When you have the CaretReply userscript and you type 20 carets >_>

Riker

3:43 AM

@HyperNeutrino puts on glasses oh I thought you were dobby >_> I'm not even joking

ATaco

Yay, My Userscripts!

Riker

kek

ATaco

Also ^*20

user165474

@ATaco I was too lazy to count so I kept typing carets and looking at the chat preview until it was the right message. but yes i remember the shortcut

user165474

OOH IDEA

user165474

3:44 AM

^*0 Will this work?

user165474

lol

user165474

@HyperNeutrino *-1 I am sad

ATaco

Nice.

user165474