The Nineteenth Byte

Conor O'Brien

03:00

@DJMcMayhem My downvote.

Alt-F4

"Hey Mom, is 16 square" "You should know that already. Go do your math homework"

Conor O'Brien

I reserve final bounty judgement :P

user165474

@DJMcMayhem shh....that may/may not be what i might want to do...

ais523

@ConorO'Brien -2 from a downvote isn't going to put much of a dent in a +150 bounty :-P

Григорий Перельман

@Alt-F4 Oh? Ty

Alt-F4

03:00

How would you guys feel about a numerical encoding of Jelly?

ais523

err, -12 I guess, because you'd presumably upvote answers you bounty under normal circumstances

Qwerp-Derp

@Alt-F4 No one's stopping you

user165474

43 secs ago, by Conor O'Brien

I reserve final bounty judgement :P

ais523

someone write a Jelly version of Lenguage, please

user165474

@ais523

Jonathan Allan

03:01

JellyBubble?

ais523

I actually want this, the problem is that Lenguage is too verbose in most cases

Jonathan Allan

or Jellygum?

user165474

We should make different flavors of Jelly

user165474

completely random thoughts

Qwerp-Derp

I want a golfed version of a Lisp-like language...

DJMcMayhem

03:01

@ConorO'Brien Personally, I think that with something as subjective as language-design, a popularity-contest would be much better than code-golf

ais523

and yet, when you need Lenguage, you really need Lenguage

Conor O'Brien

@DJMcMayhem is that on-topic for a pop-con?

ais523

@DJMcMayhem not if you're designing a golfing language

also, nobody has any clue what's ontopic for a popcon

9

DJMcMayhem

@ConorO'Brien The whole thing is essentially a chat mega challenge. Nothing is on or off topic.

ais523

you can submit a popcon and get ten close votes and ten reopen votes

Conor O'Brien

03:02

If it's by Helka it's usually on-topic. otherwise, flip a coin

DJMcMayhem

But popcorn will encourage creative languages rather than just as short as possible

Conor O'Brien

okay seriously I didn't think I had to say this but really? if all you want to do is win I might just cancel the challenge. I want people to make interesting esolangs, not some half-arsed encoding. Language design not encoding design...

(to certain people)

user165474

@DJMcMayhem popcorn? xD

Alt-F4

> popcorn

> If all you want to do is win

Isn't that the point of a challenge?

ais523

@ConorO'Brien to me it's a challenge about finding an interesting set of eight commands

Jonathan Allan

03:04

popcom?

ais523

or ten I guess, but eight compresses better

DJMcMayhem

@HyperNeutrino Yes, that was intentional. If you reward people in delicious popcorn, they'll definitely make better challenges. :P

Jonathan Allan

rnrnrnrnrnrn popcom

user165474

pop.com?

Conor O'Brien

@Alt-F4 The point of the challenge is language design.

DJMcMayhem

03:04

@JonathanAllan 🍿

ais523

or, hmm, maybe this could be the time for that arithmetic-coded language I've been thinking about, a sequence of digits would be a natural way to represent it

Jonathan Allan

\**/

ais523

the problem is I seriously doubt a week is enough time to make it interesting

DJMcMayhem

@ConorO'Brien I think it's an awesome idea. I just think that relating it to code-golf won't encourage the creative language design you're hoping for

Conor O'Brien

hm... ok.

I think I'll leave the challenge up but use the idea for another challenge

user165474

03:06

@ConorO'Brien Should we maybe make a rule that you may only have up to 10 instructions? So that way you can't have two-byte instructions or 3-byte instructions for a language with 1000 instructions.

ATaco

I made a thing.

DJMcMayhem

Which is why encoding has come up so many times so far

user165474

And obviously disallow encoding

Conor O'Brien

(I mean it has 6 stars, can't very well cancel it now)

Alt-F4

@ATaco pls no

DJMcMayhem

03:06

@ConorO'Brien I could cancel those stars if you like. Although I think you might as well keep it up and refine for next time

Alt-F4

@HyperNeutrino I have already made my "esolang"... does it still count?

ATaco

Running the latex "wise" through my image converter just produces that.

Conor O'Brien

@DJMcMayhem I think that's the best idea.

user165474

@Alt-F4 idk Ask Conor :P

Jonathan Allan

Hmm, can one U+1F93F that popcorn emoji?

Alt-F4

03:07

@JonathanAllan heh

Conor O'Brien

@Alt-F4 valid? yes. interesting? not even remotely >_>

Alt-F4

yeah it's literally ruby in base 10

here's Hello World

Conor O'Brien

I saw the github

Alt-F4

0447252006175367887011211777461405380861549822899326435541698412923028282445321‌0089344541194

user165474

why...

Helka Homba

03:08

How did pxls.space get whited out?

Alt-F4

@HelkaHomba it... didn't

Helka Homba

it seems to have restarted

Conor O'Brien

@HelkaHomba bots? there seem to be a few drawing flags

DJMcMayhem

@ConorO'Brien FWIW, I really do think the idea of a language design meta challenge is awesome. I'd even love to host one myself. So I created a room for it: chat.stackexchange.com/rooms/56899/…

Alt-F4

@ConorO'Brien and hitler, and solid snake

DJMcMayhem

03:10

I think with the right idea, it could even be hosted directly on meta instead of chat

user165474

Does our logo still exist?

ais523

@Alt-F4 that's terribly verbose, here's a hello world in 7: 5325101303040432004515131401430134321027403

also it doesn't even use the digit 6

ASCII-only

@HyperNeutrino No

user165474

rip :/

ais523

(or 8 or 9, obviously)

Helka Homba

03:12

@Alt-F4 reddit.com/r/Pxlsspace/comments/64g0fg/the_board_has_been_reset

Alt-F4

@HelkaHomba ah

@ais523 the thing is, that's an encoded version of this:

#!/usr/bin/ruby

puts "Hello, world!"

ais523

why did you encode the shebang?

Alt-F4

no idea

LegionMammal978

Hmmm

In an interesting dilemma here

Conor O'Brien

oh?

Riker

03:20

@LegionMammal978 do you have two prisoners?

LegionMammal978

I'd be going to bed around now, but there's a big roach somewhere in my bedroom

user165474

rip :/ that sucks

Conor O'Brien

turn off the lights, wait five minutes, turn on the lights, roach goes scuttling to corner of room

LegionMammal978

And if there's anything I don't trust not to creep up on me in my sleep, it's a big roach

Riker

LegionMammal978

03:22

@ConorO'Brien might work, already turned the lights off after running out of the room

Conor O'Brien

good idea

LegionMammal978

The problem comes in trusting it to stay in that corner

Riker

@LegionMammal978 ~~nuke it~~ oh wait it might survive damnit mythbusters

LegionMammal978

@ConorO'Brien lol, if only

Riker

sorry about those pings @LegionMammal978

Conor O'Brien

03:25

hey I've seen it work in books :p

Riker

and movies

LegionMammal978

Oh well, I guess I'll have to try Conor's idea

PhiNotPi

@ConorO'Brien re: language challenge. I guess it's a good thing this is happening two weeks before my finals and not the week before finals.

LegionMammal978

k, turned the light back on, I'll give it a few minutes

Conor O'Brien

hahaha ... rip. remembers finals are about a month a way ohhh shoot

3

Alt-F4

03:27

is it weird that the only time I've seen a cockroach was in a zoo?

Riker

yes

@Alt-F4 you mean you don't keep them under your sink to throw at people?

and/or bats

both are good

Alt-F4

@Riker ...wtf

Riker

in all honestly

crickets are better for the bats

but cockroaches work too

user165474

Darnit I tried to change my profile name to have a right-left override in it but it failed bc reasons ;_;

Riker

>_>

@HyperNeutrino yeah, you can't iirc. SE doesn't allow chars like that

user165474

03:29

Yeah. Only alphanumeric, spaces, hyphens, underscores I think

Riker

some other ones iirc

Alt-F4

@HyperNeutrino ‮this one?

user165474

Yes.

Riker

@Alt-F4 please don't rtl chars in chat as jokes, it's somewhat annoying

Alt-F4

...look at the starboard please

Riker

03:30

yeah ik

Alt-F4

@Riker was just a question

user165474

ok yeah sorry i'm unstarring cuz that gets annoying

Riker

it's not like you're the first person to ever think of that dude

user165474

I got that from SIGSEGV I think it was, or someone else

Alt-F4

‮pots ot yrt ll'I ,ko

Riker

03:31

@HyperNeutrino it's been around for a while

user165474

*try*

user165474

@Riker Yeah, I was using it earlier today on a Google Drive document to troll some of my unaware non-programmer friends...maybe I shouldn't :P

user165474

those things are insanely hard to find sometimes

PhiNotPi

Criticism of language challenge: that it's about golfing langs

Conor O'Brien

@PhiNotPi yup. my first mistake

Riker

03:35

to anybody with rocket league: is that game worth it?

Conor O'Brien

Language Design Meta Challenge

A room for discussing a meta-contest to design the best esoter...

check this out ^

LegionMammal978

Ima go see now if the roach has disappeared yet

DJMcMayhem

@Riker Absolutely

(But you already know that I think that :P)

LegionMammal978

For some weird reason, I've developed the habit of sleeping with the lights on

Riker

:p

Alt-F4

03:38

@LegionMammal978 just vacuum it

LegionMammal978

Probably messing me up somehow, but idk

@Alt-F4 lol, trying not to wake my parents here

Alex A.

@Dennis I'm concerned by the notion of fractional hens

3

user165474

Apparently having lights on when you sleep is bad for growth

LegionMammal978

@HyperNeutrino then too bad for me :p

Riker

@AlexA. hey, haven't seen you in a while

how's life going?

Dennis

03:41

@AlexA. Fractional hens are fine. It's the transcendental ones you have to worry about.

Conor O'Brien

wouldn't infinite hens be more problematic?

user165474

No, complex hens would be the real issue.

Alex A.

@Dennis Hens that are irreducible over GF(7) lay the best eggs

Dennis

Indubitably.

Alex A.

@Riker Quite busy, for better or for worse.

And yourself?

user165474

03:42

@LegionMammal978 lol xD

Jan Dvorak

Irrational chickens may attack at any time. We must deal with them.

Riker

@AlexA. pretty good

Conor O'Brien

@AlexA. good luck on what you have to do! :)

Alex A.

@JanDvorak I'll get the hydraulic press

@ConorO'Brien Thanks :)

Riker

@AlexA. I got a diamond, over on vegetarianism.se

you're vegetarian, right?

Alex A.

03:44

I saw, congrats!

Riker

thanks

Alex A.

I didn't know you were vegetarian

Yes, I'm vegan

Riker

as of a short time ago, yes

not that long

1 month?

@AlexA. cool

Alt-F4

@AlexA. @Riker You're vegetarians, what is your opinion on lab-grown meat?

Alex A.

That sounds horrifying

Riker

03:44

I mean it depends on why you're a vegetarian

Alex A.

In so many ways

DJMcMayhem

Hey Alex!

Riker

because of animal rights?

Alex A.

No

Because "lab-grown meat"

wtf

Jan Dvorak

Ah c'mon, lab-grown meat doesn't feel stress from overpopulation.

Dennis

03:45

> You have the right to remain tasty.

5

DJMcMayhem

@AlexA. Guess what? I might be visiting Seattle sometime next fall!

ATaco

I'm always tasty.

Alex A.

@DJMcMayhem Awesome! What's the occasion?

Jan Dvorak

What about the plants? Nobody asks them if they want to be eaten.

Helka Homba

@AlexA. but it's only gmo'd in the lab as opposed to thousands of years of selective breeding

user165474

03:46

Equal rights for plants!

DJMcMayhem

@AlexA. Looking at companies/schools up there, and visiting some friends who are going to start working for Microsoft.

user165474

@JanDvorak To be fair (or rather, unfair, I suppose), nobody asks the animals either.

Alt-F4

@DJMcMayhem please dont stalk me

Alex A.

@DJMcMayhem The University of Washington is objectively the best university in the world. I am not biased.

Alt-F4

@HyperNeutrino let me go ask my friendly neighborhood cow

Alex A.

03:47

@JanDvorak I do, they're fine with it.

Alt-F4

@AlexA. ...wot

I've heard bad things about it

user165474

@Alt-F4 "Hey cow, would you like to be eaten today?"

user165474

"No, how about another day?"

Riker

@AlexA. actually considering there for undergrad

DJMcMayhem

@AlexA. Good to know. And you don't sound Biased at all :P

user165474

03:47

"No. Too bad."

Alt-F4

@HyperNeutrino "Sure, is Friday all right?"

DJMcMayhem

The school I wanted to look at is Digipen though

Alex A.

@Alt-F4 Oh? What have you heard? I had a good experience there but that was quite a while ago now.

user165474

Yep. :P

Alex A.

@DJMcMayhem My girlfriend went there

Alt-F4

03:48

@DJMcMayhem I've played a few of their games

user165474

Random question: Can you be a mod of multiple SE sites?

Alex A.

Yes

Alt-F4

@AlexA. No idea if this is true but my father says that it's considered mediocre at best

Alex A.

For example Martin Ender is a mod here and on Computer Graphics

DJMcMayhem

@AlexA. Oh really? That's hilarious because My girlfriend really wants to go there haha

Riker

03:48

@DJMcMayhem digi-pen, digital pen-sters?

Jan Dvorak

The last time I checked around, all the fruit trees agreed with being eaten (except for one, but it's dead now), but the vegetables all disagreed (except for tomatoes, which aren't real vegetables anyways).

Riker

@HyperNeutrino Rory Alsop has 7 diamonds, he has the most iirc

Alex A.

@DJMcMayhem The workload is brutal. Absolutely brutal. I guess most of the students drop out in the first year. But those who stick it out are pretty sought after by game companies.

What does she want to study?

My SO did art and animation

user165474

@Riker Oh wow. That's quite a few! :P

DJMcMayhem

@AlexA. Art and animation, lol

Alex A.

03:50

Cool! It's a really solid program

@Alt-F4 Huh, I wonder where he heard that. As with all schools, some departments are better than others. Some UW programs are considered some of the best in the world, e.g. the graduate programs in statistics and biostatistics.

But I'm sure many of the programs don't rank comparably to other schools

Dennis

When I read SO, my mind went from Stack Overflow (no, that doesn't fit here) to senior officer (better, but still) to significant other. :P

Alex A.

haha

Dennis

Did I get it right eventually or does SO mean something else here?

Alt-F4

@AlexA. CS program.

user165474

@Dennis Well, my mind went from Stack Overflow to um...no I don't get it

Alex A.

03:53

@Alt-F4 Their CS program is supposedly amazing.

Riker

@Dennis senile optician

Alex A.

@Dennis Someone, Ostensibly

Conor O'Brien

@Dennis Something other

DJMcMayhem

Salivating Ocelots

Dennis

What Ubuntu version is this?

Riker

03:54

Salted ostrich

user165474

@Riker @DJMcMayhem I am concerned by the direction in which this conversation is going >_>

Helka Homba

@JanDvorak CMC: name an uncommon way to eat a plant normally not considered food.

e.g. if you pluck a nasturtium you can suck out sweet nectar from the stem

Alex A.

@Alt-F4 Take this with a grain of salt because I can't speak directly to the quality of their program, but I had a lot of friends who studied CS at UW and loved it. US News ranks the UW CS program as tied for #6 in the nation with University of Illinois Urbana-Champagne (where LLVM was born) and Cornell.

ATaco

I made a new userscript that turns messages like ^ I agree with that into a reply to the $n^{th}$ previous message, where N is the amount of ^s

Alex A.

@ATaco Very nice. Please don't use that here.

ATaco

03:56

@ATaco So I can quickly reply to myself! Yay!

user165474

@ATaco Nice. That may be useful, especially for people who like to do ^ a lot.

DJMcMayhem

@ATaco What if you get ninja'd?

ATaco

Is there a reason I shouldn't use that here?

Jan Dvorak

@HelkaHomba Drinks with chunks of Aloe Vera

ATaco

@DJMcMayhem Then you accidentally reply wrong.

Alex A.

03:56

@ATaco Folks around these parts do not take kindly to caret spamming

ATaco

That's exactly why it exists.

It replaces the Carets with a properly formatted reply.

user165474

@ATaco @DJMcMayhem Find out when the user starts typing in the chatbox and then take the message ID (or whatever), and then ignore messages that exist after the user began typing.

Alex A.

@ATaco Oh, sorry, I misread

Helka Homba

@JanDvorak for interior sunburns?

ASCII-only

@ATaco 0/10 i can just reply to myself by clicking the reply button on my own message

ATaco

03:58

@HyperNeutrino That's also an option. (I got ninja'd, a good time to start that)

Jan Dvorak

It's supposed to be healthy for your skin.

user165474

@ATaco Not sure how simple it would be though...

user165474

@HelkaHomba Yes. I accidentally ate a sun yesterday, how do I heal my interior sunburns?

user165474

(Sounds like something that might show up on Yahoo answers...)

user165474

Happy EDT midnight >_> I'm still doing homework rn

Alex A.

04:00

Sorry, but I just have to share youtu.be/EShUeudtaFg and youtu.be/15nNY7uofNw

3

Some gems of Yahoo! Answers

ATaco

I've got a way to detect when they start typing.

Helka Homba

@HyperNeutrino good thing it wasn't our sun

ATaco

I want to make it visible what message they're linking though...

ASCII-only

@JanDvorak Aloe vera drink is really common though

user165474

@AlexA. 0/10 may cause brain damage

Alex A.

04:02

That is accurate

user165474

@HelkaHomba We promised to never eat a sun with a planet with life on it...

Qwerp-Derp

Is there a challenge where you remove unnecessary brackets in maths equations?

Jan Dvorak

@HyperNeutrino no mention of those where only moons are inhabited

@Qwerp-Derp in before answered with a retina one-liner

DJMcMayhem

@AlexA. That video always makes me laugh so hard

ATaco

I seemed to have accomplished that.

Qwerp-Derp

04:04

So e.g. (19*((8-13)*6))-1 becomes 19*(8-13)*6-1, because you don't need the brackets around the end two multiplication bits (since multiplication is associative), and the large brackets are removed because multiplication comes before subtraction

user165474

@JanDvorak We promised to never eat a life-essential sun. A life-essential celestial object is defined as one that either has life on it or has a life-essential object orbiting it.

Qwerp-Derp

@JanDvorak Link please?

Jan Dvorak

@Qwerp-Derp remind me when the challenge and answer exist

Qwerp-Derp

@JanDvorak I was being serious... :(

Jan Dvorak

I mean, I don't know if such challenge has been posted, but I do expect it to be answered with a Retina oneliner

Helka Homba

04:06

@HyperNeutrino So neutrinos only interact when there's no life nearby? That explains why we have such trouble detecting them.

user165474

@HelkaHomba Sorry what? I'm sorry, I don't get which message you're replying to.

Helka Homba

The one I replied to. Neutrinos are tiny hard-to-detect particles...your name...nevermind. Bad joke

I may be getting confused with dark matter anyhow...

Alex A.

I thought it was a good joke

Also, when did you change your name back, @HelkaHomba?

Helka Homba

a while back

user165474

I do not seem to understand. rip :/

Alex A.

04:09

I guess I didn't notice. That's too bad.

Helka Homba

What a good non-flag emoticon to represent USA? Like 🍀 = Ireland, 🍁 = Canada

DJMcMayhem

@HelkaHomba 🍔

(partially joking)

Jan Dvorak

🗽

Helka Homba

@DJMcMayhem Yes. great >.>

:P

Jan Dvorak

🦅

Helka Homba

04:14

@JanDvorak that works

user165474

I'm just seeing a bunch of hexcode in boxes :P My computer doesn't render the icons properly rip

Jan Dvorak

@HyperNeutrino get Win10

ASCII-only

@HelkaHomba <insert trump emoticon here>

Jan Dvorak

@ASCII-only is that a thing?

user165474

@JanDvorak Maybe? I don't rly like windows too much so I use Linux Mint :P.

Helka Homba

04:15

@ASCII-only no thanks

Qwerp-Derp

YouTube's comment system is pretty shit, I think that's why YouTube's comments are shit

Jan Dvorak

🍺 = Czech Republic?

Qwerp-Derp

When you click "reply" it doesn't actually reply specifically to the person

Helka Homba

@Qwerp-Derp they do have too much casual profanity

Qwerp-Derp

@Qwerp-Derp That's why the community is toxic, there's a lot of misunderstandings because of bad replys

@HelkaHomba That too

Helka Homba

04:17

@Qwerp-Derp it does afaik

Jan Dvorak

It doesn't. It just renders the reply box there, but then puts the actual reply at the bottom anyways

Qwerp-Derp

@HelkaHomba Does it? Wait can I test it on one of your videos? I'm fairly sure it doesn't work (at least, it doesn't display that it's replying to a specific person)

ASCII-only

@Qwerp-Derp ... It does if it's a top level comment

Qwerp-Derp

@ASCII-only Good point

New Sandboxed Posts

0

A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

Write a "21" game in exactly 21 characters code-bowling Challenge You must write a program which implements the following algorithm: Let x = 0 Let y = truthy value while (y is not falsy AND x <= 21) do: Let x = x + a uniform random number from {1,2,3,...,11} Output the value of x Input a...

Helka Homba

04:20

@Qwerp-Derp try here: youtube.com/…

DJMcMayhem

@Dennis Uhmmmmm.....

Helka Homba

@ASCII-only Oh, do second replies not work in tree-fashion? Hmm

DJMcMayhem

That's kinda borderline nsfw/offensive

Qwerp-Derp

@HelkaHomba I might need a third person for this test to actually work though

Jan Dvorak

@Dennis that's pretty awful

although I do like the idea behind the "coexist" poster

Dennis

04:23

@DJMcMayhem OK, removed.

DJMcMayhem

Thanks

Dennis

Might be offensive. Not sure about NSFW.

ATaco

DJMcMayhem

That's pretty cool

Jan Dvorak

I like the "Coexist" sticker (minus the "don't" and "trump" parts), though

Qwerp-Derp

04:26

@HelkaHomba Wait try to post a message without replying

Helka Homba

done

well, I had to reply to myself

Qwerp-Derp

@HelkaHomba I still got a notification :P

Well, YouTube's comment system is trash

Jan Dvorak

You can't even mute individual threads anymore. "mute" kills all notifications - except they still show in other places with the G+ toolbar, just not on Youtube.

Helka Homba

@Qwerp-Derp Welp..yep, a little bit

@JanDvorak I do really wish I didn't get notified in 3 places (YT, G+, mobile) when someone leaves a comment

Or it should at least know when I saw one of the notifications

ATaco

@JanDvorak Remember the rule for Commenting on youtube! D.O.N.T

5

Jan Dvorak

04:31

I killed mobile notifications olready

ATaco

It stands for Dooooooooooooooooooont comment.

Anonymous

The number of userscripts and extensions for blocking YouTube comment sections should give a pretty strong hint towards how bad they usually are

2

Jan Dvorak

YT+ has three settings: shown normally / shown after pressing a button / removed entirely

Григорий Перельман

04:58

@ATaco borks for me, shows ... indefinitely.

ATaco

Getting an error in your console?

Григорий Перельман

Ooh yeah

Like, a lot of errors

Language Design Meta Challenge

Transcript for