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17:00
IIRC prime checking/ addition are no longer necessary for language status
Anonymous
@WheatWizard That's very incorrect
59
A: What are programming languages?

Peter TaylorMy previous answer was criticised for not drawing a line in a sand, so following some discussion on chat I propose a line. Executive Summary A purported programming language should be accepted as such if and only if it is capable of addition of natural numbers and primality testing of natural n...

Anonymous
@WheatWizard That just says that things that don't qualify as programming languages can be used. It doesn't change our definition of a programming language.
Anonymous
@Riker Windows's calculator can do binary arithmetic (AND, OR, NOT, XOR, Lshift, Rshift), so in theory it's capable of prime checking.
17:03
ah, cool
Ok so whether or not it is a language is really irrelevant to the discussion
does the definition of language ever matter?
but if it's a language it can be used
@WheatWizard only on KG challenges iirc
but i might be wrong
@Riker KG?
kogolwmov complexity
idk how to spell first word
kogorov?
kolgorov?
That doesn't seem to be what the top answer says
17:05
Kolmogorov (thanks autocorrect)
Anonymous
@WheatWizard No, which I vehemently disagree with.
@Mego how would you check like that?
Anonymous
@Riker By entering a complex sequence of calculations. An infinite number of AND and NOT calculations is TC.
oh true
wat
wat
@KritixiLithos Yes
17:13
Did you create it on your hackintosh?
@KritixiLithos That shouldn't matter... macOS isn't Windows.
Leo
Leo
I'd like to comment to this answer with a link to somewhere explaining the proper way to count bytes on functions (namely that the function f(...) part should be counted). Does anyone know where in the meta I could find it?
@Leo the most relevant meta post I'm aware of is this one but I don't know if it answers the question
Anonymous
4
A: Necessity of Wrapping Solution into Method/Function

MegoThe difference is, some esoteric languages (like Brainfuck) don't have a function-like construct in the language. In those languages, the submissions are full programs - you run it, pass the input in (through STDIN or whatever method it uses), and you get the output (from STDOUT or whatever metho...

there's also this one which talks about what a function submission is
wat
wat
17:23
@KritixiLithos no
I just wrote a regex to match any floating point number including 15e3 notation:
^-?[\d,]*(\.\d+|)(e\d+|)$
what language allows commas in the integral portion of a floating-point number?
@wat -1 doesn't match x10^ notation. :-)
most languages which allow separators in numbers use underscores, I think (although I vaguely remember seeing one which uses apostrophes)
wat
wat
@ais523 No idea but RegexOne gave these as examples
@ais523 Actually, very few languages support that.
wat
wat
17:24
@wizzwizz4 Not intended to
@wat I know. Is it supposed to support E?
Leo
Leo
@mego @ais523 Thank you, I was hoping to find a more direct answer, but I'll do with some of what you've linked :)
@wizzwizz4 most languages don't support separators in numbers at all; however there are some patterns in the languages that do
wat
wat
@wizzwizz4 I guess
@ais523 Yeah. Most languages use unde - that's what you just posted...
wat
wat
17:26
@wat That's what I used to first learn regex
Once I learnt regex I was literally something like this
4
@KritixiLithos haha
Leo
Leo
@wat wow, that's painful to read
wat
wat
@KritixiLithos neat
1326
Q: RegEx match open tags except XHTML self-contained tags

JeffI need to match all of these opening tags: <p> <a href="foo"> But not these: <br /> <hr class="foo" /> I came up with this and wanted to make sure I've got it right. I am only capturing the a-z. <([a-z]+) *[^/]*?> I believe it says: Find a less-than, then Find (and capture) a-z one or ...

that's all I can think about whenever someone says "RegEx" and "HTML"
17:31
4426
A: RegEx match open tags except XHTML self-contained tags

bobinceYou can't parse [X]HTML with regex. Because HTML can't be parsed by regex. Regex is not a tool that can be used to correctly parse HTML. As I have answered in HTML-and-regex questions here so many times before, the use of regex will not allow you to consume HTML. Regular expressions are a tool th...

Yes, that specifically
@wizzwizz4 That's one of the best answers on SO
@KritixiLithos It appears that there's a bug that lets me upvote it over and over and over and over again. Perhaps that's just a userscript.
Oh, wait. It's the lockedness of it.
Yea, I was about to say
6215
Q: What is the "-->" operator in C++?

GManNickGAfter reading Hidden Features and Dark Corners of C++/STL on comp.lang.c++.moderated, I was completely surprised that the following snippet compiled and worked in both Visual Studio 2008 and G++ 4.4. Here's the code: #include <stdio.h> int main() { int x = 10; while (x --> 0) // x goes ...

17:35
> it is too late it is too late we cannot be saved the trangession of a chi͡ld ensures regex will consume all living tissue (except for HTML which it cannot, as previously prophesied) dear lord help us how can anyone survive this scourge using regex to parse HTML has doomed humanity to an eternity of dread torture and security holes
1550
A: What is the "-->" operator in C++?

unsynchronizedOr for something completely different... x slides to 0 while (x --\ \ \ \ > 0) printf("%d ", x); Not so mathematical, but... every picture paints a thousand...

That's a good one too
Holy crap, I have 35 stars on the starboard right now. o_O
Would it be too meta to star what you just said?
Stars that message so that it becomes a lie
17:45
I can still edit if need be :P
OK, I'll wait 2 minutes :P
You only have 10 for me :)
@Rod You misspelled "Objective"
Also the tag at the bottom is "code-gold" instead of "code-golf"
17:54
@Malivil The acronym of the acronym is the first word.
wat
wat
@DJMcMayhem 35? only 10 for me
It varies by screen size
Although now it's only 32 for me
@Rod There is also some duplication in the "Input" section. Namely where it goes "keep in mind that this"
wat
wat
Can anyone who is proficient in Retina attempt to answer the multiply two numbers challenge?
@Rod Looks good now =)
wat
wat
18:04
WHat do you call it when you publicly show off a regex based language
a Retina display
8
Anonymous
sigh
wat
wat
I know what you're thinking
"like, seriously?"
Anonymous
It's really not smart to antagonize someone with the power to kick you ;)
wat
wat
yes, I actually made that pun
Leo
Leo
@wat this answers it, but I bet it can be golfed more
wat
wat
18:09
negative numbers?
Leo
Leo
accounted for in the first 3 lines
Anonymous
Alright, stop with the low-effort puns. They're definitely noise, and I will kick for them.
@wat I rate this sheep/10
How much is sheep worth?
wat
wat
@Mego sorry i will stop
@KritixiLithos pineapple
18:11
@KritixiLithos -goat
Anonymous
That doesn't mean "post even more-nonsensical messages"
wat
wat
@Leo That's really cool, you should submit it as an answer\
Leo
Leo
@wat I'm proud of the part for dealing with signs, but I'd like to improve the actual multiplication
wat
wat
@Leo You can improve it once it is submitted...
1
Q: Reverse Insertion sort

RodObjective Generate the original scrambled list, from the movements that an Insertion Sort would do to sort it. The original list will have all numbers from 0 to N-1(inclusive) where N is the size of the input. Input A list containing the necessary moves to sort the list. Each value represents ...

wat
wat
I have started a +100 bounty for a retina answer
prints nothing when one of the args is 0
wat
wat
@Leo
@Fatalize Yeah....
Leo
Leo
@wat Ok, I was already answering, no need to pay me to do so xD
wat
wat
18:17
@Leo I was originally going to do it when I set the challenge, I just figured out how to set bounties.
Leo
Leo
18:29
@wat done
Anyway I'm sure that Martin Ender will show up with a much better answer than mine :)
wat
wat
ok @Leo the best Retina answer within 23.5 hours will get the bounty
Leo
Leo
Don't rush it, leave people the time to participate :)
wat
wat
aight
btw @Leo you can golf it further
Leo
Leo
I knew that :D
18:35
You can save bytes using M`1 at the end and removing 1+\n$.&Kritixi Lithos 3 mins ago
Leo
Leo
Thank you, I'll change it ^^
Leo
Leo
@KritixiLithos wait, this will mess with the sign
Ooh, I missed that
18:55
@Leo holy shit nice retina answer
@wat generally it's best to wait until the last day of the bounty
there's even a 24 hour grace period at the end in case you forget
wat
wat
@Riker oic
Leo
Leo
Thank you :)
np
Hmm. There were two bounties in the last 40 minutes, and neither has been posted in here.
You feeling OK @newbountiedposts?
prolly not
it seems to have existential crises a lot
18:59
In that case, I'm going to shamelessly self-promote
on another note: :( martin's avatar doesn't like showing up anywhere for me
17
Q: Tips for Golfing in Brain-Flak

Wheat WizardBrain-flak is a stack-based turing-tarpit language, written collaboratively between me, DJMcMayhem, and 1000000000. Some users are very experienced in the mysterious ways of Brain-Flak. So I thought it a good idea to set up this question as a way for us, and hopefully others too, to share our k...

@MartinEnder did you recently update it or something?
This message was brought to you by @newlybountiedpostsbyDJ, the part of the show where DJ brings you a newly bountied post.
2
@DJMcMayhem is that sherlock's?
but golfed more looks like
holy shit much golf more
19:01
No, it's mine
I made it yesterday
ah nice
seriously nice job tho
It's extremely stack unsafe though, lol
It only works as a full program
lol
Technically it adds the product to the top of the alternate stack, rather than pushing it, so it abuses the fact that an empty stack pops a zero
ah cool
19:05
But if you Don't toggle, you can see that it screws with the main stack
ah
To all PowerShell users: TIO's PowerShell is now using native images, which should decrease start-up time. If there are any issues, please let me know.
(I meant to post that a few days ago, but I forgot.)
Anonymous
You could've just pinged AdmBorkBork :P
lol
We actually have several PowerShell golfers, but @AdmBorkBork seems to be the only one who frequents TNB, so fair point.
19:12
And the joke was turned into an actual ping.
Well, I do want to know if I broke something.
Oh, so you called the expert to check stuff. That's actually neat, considering the great dependency of the whole community on TIO.
Anonymous
The expert, or the only one who actually uses PowerShell :P
I don't expect anybody to actively check. It's more of a heads-up in case something is behaving oddly and they can't figure out why.
Anonymous
It could be completely broken and I'd have no clue. I'd just assume that it's a PowerShell quirk.
19:19
@DJMcMayhem does brainflak have a step-by-step mode?
if no, please make
i.e. one that prints the current stack after each step of execution
Uhm, sort of
There are flags for printing the stack and for pausing codegolf.stackexchange.com/a/95407/31716
But TBH I never use them
ah
huh @ATaco prettifier recognizes regex? lol
@Mego Or it may just be gremlins again.
@DJMcMayhem I waited 2 minutes
now you cannoy edit
muahahahaha
Lol. But it's not even remotely close to true any more
I can only see 15 rn
19:24
is for me
@Riker Are you BusinessCat?
no
@DJMcMayhem I get 25
Oh, I thought (s)he was your sock for a second, because both messages used "I". Guess it was just a coincidence.
nope
19:31
hahahaha
I'm quite happy with my 2
@Dennis would you mind purging the comments on this sandbox post? I did a dramatic overhaul, and Peter's comments aren't really relevant anymore.
@EriktheOutgolfer We're both cats so we have a sort of telepathic bond
@NathanMerrill Done. You can just flag them btw.
oh, good to know. Thanks
19:37
s/dog/cat/g
On flagging obsolete comments: If there is more than one comment, use a custom mod flag on any of the comments (I'd recommend the first), and explain the situation (e.g. "Top x comments obsolete." or "This comment and the one below obsolete." etc.) so that you don't waste your flags. But be careful not to say "All comments obsolete.", so as to not delete comments posted after the flag but before handling of it.
It's actually a bit easier for us to delete the comments if they're individually flagged.
Yeah, but I don't want to waste my flags, they're limited.
Anonymous
@EriktheOutgolfer I'm fairly certain our moderators are capable of determining which comments are and aren't obselete. They're not just mindless drones slapping the delete button repeatedly.
I mean, technically they are limited, but in practice I don't think anyone here is going to be using up their daily flags
I've got 32/day
Judging by your (erik) rep and flagging history, you should have 25/day
Anonymous
19:45
I have 51/day apparently
@DJMcMayhem Can you see my flagging history?? I have 23/day.
So ~2 flags/hour
I have 76 for some reason? Wonder what for...
@EriktheOutgolfer No, but I can see how many helpful flags you have
How do you see your flags/day?
19:46
Click flag on something but don't actually flag it
@Dennis I'm guessing it's mostly your insane rep
Anonymous
Insane rep plus automatically-validated flags
I've got 12 flags remaining
For those who are curious, the formula is 10 + floor(rep/2,000) + floor((helpful flags - declined flags)/10)
I thought you get a flag every 1000 rep, not 2000.
Ah that makes sense, I haven't flagged much, so I don't have so many helpful flags
19:50
@Dennis The only possible explanation is that you have too many declined flags? Like, from when you were inexperienced with the site? Because your rep normally allows for 100 flags.
That doesn't sound plausible to me though.
Anonymous
@EriktheOutgolfer Nope, it's definitely 2000 rep per flag
@DJMcMayhem Heh, you got me wondering for a moment why floor would take two arguments.
@Mego You get 2,000 rep per flag? Awesome! brb
13
@EriktheOutgolfer I seriously doubt that Dennis has somewhere on the order of 500 declined flags
0
Q: How might I reward a Robber for an especially good crack?

Wheat WizardTo keep a concise title I have left out a few details, but here is the dilemma: I have a cops post that has not yet been cracked. I would like to reward the first person to figure out my solution but there are very few combinations to be checked and it is almost certain that the first person to...

I ... didn't read the "an" first in this title.
7
19:53
@DJMcMayhem But he has only 48 helpful flags.
@mınxomaτ Yea, that took me a second too
Anonymous
@Dennis That's... Not what I meant :P
@EriktheOutgolfer That's because mods don't really need to flag things
Why would they?
He registered in almost 2014, I think he became a mod in 2015.
Anonymous
Dennis has between 0 and 8 (inclusive) declined flags, according to the formula
19:58
My parents have a couple American flags
according to memory
I have an irish flag
I'm not irish
it was a gift from my also-not-irish great aunt
I own zero flags
Really? I own twice as many flags.
better pick up your flag game, DJ. Dennis is wrecking you
Anonymous
20:14
@Poke Better pick up your math game
is it even possible for a diamond moderator to run out of flags?
Anonymous
That's an interesting question - are mods actually constrained by the daily flag limit?
when cleaning up spam attacks on other sites, I've needed to do over 100 spam deletions in a day before now
I don't think they are
the SE equivalent would be to red-flag the post; Dennis has a flaghammer, but even then each post would still require spending a flag
20:16
Do they even need to flag?
Anonymous
Mods don't need to cast the flags - they merely need to validate them
mod flags get automatically validated
Anonymous
Alternatively, what usually happens is 6 users spam-flag the post and it dies in a matter of minutes, before a mod even sees it
but they do need to use them to, say, hide an offensive or spammy post from public view
Could we test this? Have Dennis flag something and then dispute it and see if he has one less flag allowed today?
20:17
(flags by mods, that is; not flags for mods)
Anonymous
Sure, but they don't need to cast a flag if someone else has already flagged it. They only need to validate the other user's flag.
I guess that wouldn't really determine for sure unless he used all of them up and tried to cast another
Anonymous
If there's not already a question for that on Meta.SE, it would be worth asking
@ais523 They actually don't. I can still flag a post to get another moderator to look at it. (Did that by mistake once when I was a newbie mod. Old habits die hard.) But yes, red flags cast by a mod are binding.
ah right
I can actually see plausible reasons to mod-attention flag a post as a moderator, if you're really not sure what to do with it but don't think it should drop through the cracks
Anonymous
20:25
They could also bring it up in one of the mod rooms, but mod flags are more reliable
Anonymous
It's harder to ignore a flag than a chat message
@Dennis red flags being spam/rude or abusive?
Yes.
@Poke guess i didn't quite hit the mark on that one i.ytimg.com/vi/b98iYaVZ4p8/maxresdefault.jpg
Unless Mego's reply also was a joke. In a chat reply chain, it's always hard to see where the sarcasm ends and actual confusion begins. That's why you always convey your intentions with an appropriate emoticon. >:U
3
20:30
Then I guess the only thing left to say is U+1F4A9
@DJMcMayhem Do I round result down up or middle?
@Dennis can't tell if sarcastic or not :N
@Dennis That's hilarious. I kinda want that pillow
@Downgoat Floor means down
20:33
Sorry I am idiot
2
Totally unrelated chat survey: favorite tie knot? Also, most commonly worn tie knot? (in case the answers are different)
@PhiNotPi staple
@PhiNotPi I use Half Windsor because I kinda did it randomly while trying to figure out how to tie a tie
@PhiNotPi Whichever shows up on Google first
Some day I'll try out the eldredge
20:38
Favourite: trefoil/trinity tie knot. Never actually tied it, though
Anonymous
@PhiNotPi I always do Windsor
Anonymous
One time I did Elderedge and my wife told me no
Is there anyway to figure out exactly where a Python Syntax error is coming from?
Anonymous
@WheatWizard The error message should tell you
I have a really long and complicated line of code.
Python just tells me the line which is not terribly helpful
I usually do half-windsor, sometimes the eldredge (probably favorite?), occasionally the trinity, and I want to try the merovingian sometime but that's a pretty "radical" knot. I ask because I'm probably gonna work on a tie knot generator / evaluator program. I want to discover my own tie knot but I'm not certain if any other good, undiscovered possibilities exist.
oh cool
From what I can tell, "177,147" is the current estimate as to the number of unique tie knots (given some reasonable bounds).
CMC for each brace in a balance string put the depth before the brace. e.g. ((())()) -> 0(1(2(2)1)1(1)0)
Are we assuming it is only braces?
Anonymous
20:55
@Dennis :V
@LliwTelracs I've always heard brace to mean {}, and those being parentheses, so I'd assume any
I meant could it be something like (asfdsaf())
No just parens
ah
@LliwTelracs oh probably
x=>{s='';for(i=c=0;i<x.length;i++){if(x[i]=='(')s+=c++;if(x[i]==')')s+=--c;s+=x[i‌​]}return s}
21:04
CJam, 14 bytes: q{Uz\_U\~:U;}%
(abusing the fact that ( and ) are decrement and increment respectively)
@BusinessCat Fails if you have anything outside of parens ie. (asdf())
hello!
@JanDvorak would you like to view the tales from the ecru lashes? (that's the name of my Dwarf fortress fort)
I can. How's your streaming going?
I remember wasting hours trying to figure out how to do anything in DF
@LliwTelracs It doesn't need to succeed then. Sorry if I was unclear it is just parens.
21:13
Then my script is down to 72 bytes
@BusinessCat Thats pretty clever
@WheatWizard Try splitting it up into different lines
@DJMcMayhem That would have been a good idea. I feel a bit dumb now. I ended up just scrutenizing over the code until I found the problem
@WheatWizard Your Meta post inspired me to try and crack it. Originally I had given up, but now I really want to get it :D
@DJMcMayhem Have fun. Its pretty hard if I do say so myslef
21:23
@JanDvorak well, I can start streaming now
go ahead
do you know a good way to view twitch chat without having the stream open?
does the dashboard cut it?
A pop-out chat window would do, too
hmm... the buffering indicator's going strong, but the video plays underneath it at the same time.
21:28
hello
you could just make your comments in a new chat.se room
Me? I'll go for the Twitch chat instead.
For those coding in sed, GNU versions 4.3 and higher will now throw an error on a nameless label ":". Too bad, the bug was really widespread as a feature for decades!?
@seshoumara just use an old version of sed then :-)
Sure, mine was 4.2 anyway, I just wanted to let people know.
Anonymous
So I've had this idea bouncing around in my head for a while, and I'm considering making a proposal on meta: what if we just required bytes to be the scoring system in code golf for every language?
@WheatWizard I've got a brute forcer up and running (minus the "eval as brain flak" part) but I'm getting 21,506 combos, not 27,707. Are you sure that number is right?
Anonymous
Meaning that, if a language's "normal" scoring isn't bytes, it would need an encoding method to translate it into bytes.
@Mego I'm pretty sure that's already standard
@DJMcMayhem I am pretty certain
could I see your list?
21:53
Uhhh, I guess so
(slash do you want my list)
Anonymous
@DJMcMayhem It's not, though. For years, the scoring system for Piet was codels (and now there's not a clear consensus whether it's codels or bytes). Folders doesn't have a 1-to-1 encoding.
I'm more curious where my method is failing because I'm pretty sure it's right
@Mego Well last time I tried scoring a vim answer in keystrokes, I got several mods asking me to change it
Are you doing insertions, deletions and changes
Anonymous
Keystrokes for vim is not acceptable because you can use vimscript or whatever it's called to achieve the same thing
21:55
Yes, and "Wrappings"
Anonymous
But with other stuff, keystrokes regularly gets used as a scoring method
Anonymous
It would be a whole lot more intuitive and a whole lot less confusing if bytes was the standard across the board
Wait, I have an idea
@Mego Then you'll need such an encoding method approved for each non-standard "language"
consider minecraft blocks, excel formulas, piet, etc
Anonymous
@Poke Approval for each individual method wouldn't be necessary. So long as the encoding method could be used to both encode an answer into bytes and decode it back into the "natural" format, it would be acceptable.
21:57
OK, I managed to find 828 more, but I'm still several thousand short
Anonymous
If it wasn't a faithful reproduction, it wouldn't be acceptable anyways by our current standards
I'm working on uploading the list hopefully a comparason will help

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