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18:00
Then produce a simple, elegant, perfect answer.
@MartinEnder I'm curious (since you're a connisuer of 2d languages). I've noticed that there are two different kinds of 2d languages: funges, like befunge, ><>, most of the languages in your polyglot answer, and langs with a 2D memory model, like V, turtlèd, and charcoal. How would you classify the difference between the two?
TIL that Mego is married.
@PhiNotPi As of late last year, yes.
@DJMcMayhem I guess there's also things like Orthagonal which is semantically a Funge but doesn't actually use 2D syntax.
@DJMcMayhem I configured my Vim so that V commands would work as normal commands :)
18:02
Each square only has 8 possibilities, right? 4 possible ownerships + true/false flag.
@PhiNotPi Yes.
Oh, Mego actually got married in the middle of the year.
I suppose 0 - 7 would be better than silly symbols...
Aug 1 '16 at 2:29, by Mego
I got married yesterday. 10/10 would recommend, 0/10 would not do again.
@MartinEnder o_O how does that work?
Also, which one is jellyfish?
18:03
the code is a list of (x, y, instruction) tuples
BRB, must star.
@DJMcMayhem 2D syntax
I wouldn't consider it a funge though
I would recommend 0-7. Then you can do something like X/2 to recover ownership and X%2 to recover the flag.
So does it need an IP (instruction pointer) to technically be a funge?
Regardless, I think there fairly distinct types of languages. When I say "2D language" I definitely only think of languages with 2D syntax/execution semantics, not 2D memory. while memory is important, I think it's somewhat secondary to the control flow semantics in terms of how the language feels.
18:04
@PhiNotPi Ok.
One last thing; would you use 0x00 through 0x07, or '0' through '7'?
@DJMcMayhem I don't know if there's an official definition of a Funge (well I guess the official definition is that it satisfies the Funge-98 spec). but if we're talking Fungeoids, I'd generally consider things one IP at a time, travelling over some grid, executing single-character commands.
@MartinEnder Yeah, so that's kinda why I'm asking. When I write "V is a 2D language" it somehow feels wrong/misleading even though it's technically true. Is there a better way of saying "language with a 2D memory model?"
I'm not aware of an existing term. ais might be the more knowledgeable person to ask there.
If not, we should make one. Perhaps grid-based?
@wizzwizz4 This is for communication, right?
18:07
@PhiNotPi Yes.
Character-based device files and / or named pipes.
Or ordinary files, if they can be simultaneously opened for reading and writing in two different processes.
I would normally use human-readable characters. 0x00 would cause some issues, right?
@PhiNotPi Not usually. It's often just EOF that breaks stuff. (Oh, wait. 0x00 is NUL... :-/)
ASCII it is.
@Mego It's sorted now. (If this ping disrupted anything, I'd recommend muting the device / closing the window.)
An alternative suggestion would be wWxXyYzZ
@KritixiLithos haha, that's awesome. I don't recommend all of them FYI. init.vim sets a lot of annoying features and regex.vim is horrible for general purpose editing
@PhiNotPi It's not just 4 states though; adding them would make sense.
18:12
Normal keys is good though
hey folks, is there an open-source text editor that auto-saves its state so that you can get back to where you were after e.g. a brutal shutdown?
@aditsu Notepad++
oh, that's windoze-only, isn't it?
I'm not sure about brutal, but I have unsaved files without a file path (i.e. New 1, New 2) still in there.
I think vim can do that, but I'm not sure.
18:14
@aditsu Do you want the wine or the port?
@DJMcMayhem I didn't source init.vim, I just sourced the 4 files that init.vim sources (since init.vim as a whole has annoying features as you said)
(but I also wouldn't recommend vim to everyone)
@aditsu I was about to say Notepad++ too. Sublime Text also saves its state and is cross-platform.
@wizzwizz4 I'll have some Port wine, thank you :)
@aditsu So, you want wine to be ported to a non-POSIX OS (probably Windows) to use it to run Windows programs...?
18:16
@KritixiLithos including regex?
tbh, I like the V commands, they make my life slightly easier :) Also since I had to use your Alt function for other modes (and not just insert mode), I modified it to support normal, visual, insert and command while learning the noremap command :)
@El'endiaStarman Sublime is proprietary nagware, right?
@DJMcMayhem Yes, I figured I'd have the whole package
@aditsu Nagware?
@aditsu Nagware, yes. I dunno about open-source vs proprietary since that doesn't really matter to me.
18:17
@wizzwizz4 according to wikipedia
@wizzwizz4 If you continue using the free trial, you get asked to buy it every 20-30 times you save a file or something.
@KritixiLithos Do you find it annoying to not be able to see/edit your command as you type it? That's the clincher for me
That's why I've started to use :norm (with shortcut î) and then type out the command sometimes. (for example when using the range operator)
@El'endiaStarman Ah.
I'll check out some Notepad++ alternatives
18:22
No, I meant for like substitute/search commands. Unless that's what you meant. Do you mean like î/foo<C-v><CR> instead of just /foo?
Crippleware, part of a series on Digital Rithmatic Management
I meant for commands that I can't simply write (because mac keyboards are weird and I need to use the Alt function). Because when I simply use the Alt function, I can't give the command a count or arguments (like the args for the range operator). That is when I use î commands.
@DJMcMayhem Do you mean that you want to see \d when you type out ä in regex replacement?
Port wine (also known as Vinho do Porto, Portuguese pronunciation: [ˌviɲuduˈpoɾtu], Porto, and usually simply port) is a Portuguese fortified wine produced exclusively in the Douro Valley in the northern provinces of Portugal. It is typically a sweet, red wine, often served as a dessert wine, though it also comes in dry, semi-dry, and white varieties. Fortified wines in the style of port are also produced outside Portugal, most notably in Australia, France, South Africa, Canada, India, Argentina, and the United States. Under European Union Protected Designation of Origin guidelines, only the product...
That's pretty cool though. It's almost like I inadvertently wrote a useful but highly convoluted vim-plugin. :D
@aditsu Oh... :-/
18:27
How "far" should I attempt to take a quantum-bots KOTH? I'm not sure if I know enough about quantum physics to be able to do a good job with it.
@PhiNotPi Gimme a sec; I have a document that shows how far.
In the meantime, read this:
> Apparently reasoning by analogy to "caches of arms," the use of computer memory caches was outlawed. The legislators, hearing a very general piece of computer jargon (caching) associated with infringement, banned it, not realizing it was a basic digital storage technique found in most modern equipment -- Analog hole
I just modified the Alt function to have support for all the modes and added 3 more noremaps for the various modes :)
@KritixiLithos Share it!
@PhiNotPi The talk
3
18:34
It's probably not too hard to do a multi-worlds approach. I'll have to do some pruning to keep the number of "worlds" reasonable.
@PhiNotPi Perhaps there is a probability that each world will collapse.
That could lead to massive numbers of "worlds", or none.
Then the second question is what the "wavefunction" will be, and how "interference" will work.
And also... how bots will be able to control themselves vs. obeying "the laws of physics."
@wizzwizz4 that's ridiculous, kids these days don't learn about hardcore quantum stuff from magazines, they learn from the internet (such as SMBC) :)
@aditsu Well... I learnt quite a bit from magazines until I learnt about Physics.
and apparently Quantboy doesn't even show explicit interferences anymore :p
18:42
I actually think a Bohmian Mechanics interpretation could be really useful for a quantum KOTH. There's one "world" and it's fully deterministic. The problem is that I think there's more processing necessary due to the "global hidden variables."
Q: best language for meta coding?
@PhiNotPi Global hidden variables: State of a MT machine.
@GLASSIC Scheme.
@wizzwizz4 MT?
@PhiNotPi Mersenne Twister.
0
A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

VoteToCloseExit Code Golf code-challenge suggested tags? Inspired by this default for IO. The Task Write a program that, given an input integer x between 0 and 255, crashes with exit code x. Restrictions You may not call anything which is documented as an exit call (System.exit(x) or the like). In...

18:57
0
A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

NeilGraphical Borromean Rings Here is an SVG rendering of the Borromean Rings: <svg xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" height="200" width="200"> <defs> <radialGradient id="green"> <stop stop-color="transparent" offset="70%"/> <stop stop-color="#0F0" offset="75%"/> <...

1
Q: Backspace-and-retype a list of words

LynnHere’s how to backspace-and-retype from one string to another: Start from the first string. Remove characters at the end until the result is a prefix of the second string. Add characters at the end until the result equals the second string. For example, the path from fooabc to fooxyz looks li...

2
19:15
Should this be closed as off-topic?
or possibly unclear
or just left to be downvoted as a bad question
Are you talking about the answer or the question?
the question
19:34
@FlipTack This would be the best option because I think this is an on-topic question
@ais523 In response to this: disproven.
@VoteToClose that's not a disproof: the challenge was specifically about causing an error, whereas our defaults say that errors don't matter unless stated otherwise
@ais523 Oh, hmm.
Still clearly against the intention of the challenge, however. :\ I don't like how challenges can get closed because people put up a fuss over rules which don't exactly state the nature of the challenge instead of allowing for a change in rules.
> Binary operator '-' cannot be applied to two 'Int' operands
@VoteToClose Then why is your username...
19:46
TIL you're not allowed to subtract in swift
@wizzwizz4 ಠ_ಠ
I'm all about closing challenges that should be closed.
@Downgoat I asked a similar question on SO: stackoverflow.com/q/31132491/4936954.
@VoteToClose Questions should be put on hold if their rules aren't perfect. They should be re-opened when they are.
And then I gave up on iOS dev and introduced myself to Android since Android > iOS
@wizzwizz4 But there's no need to close if it's a definition or otherwise simple fix.
19:49
@VoteToClose There is if it's a problem that needs fixing.
@KritixiLithos well your thing was not stupid weird
If I put expression into variable it work
Otherwise invalid answers might be posted.
actually looks like error message is bad. I forgot to unwrap an Int
@wizzwizz4 O.o We're talking about a challenge being permanently closed for a problem in definition.
Not a challenge being temporarily closed.
There's no such thing as permanent closure.
19:50
yes there is
@wizzwizz4 There is a world of difference. If the problem is fixable, it should not be permanently closed.
@wizzwizz4 yes there is
Really?
65
Q: 99 Bottles Of Beer

Nick BerardiRecreate '99 bottles of beers on the wall'. The desired output is this: 99 bottles of beer on the wall, 99 bottles of beer. Take one down and pass it around, 98 bottles of beer on the wall. 98 bottles of beer on the wall, 98 bottles of beer. Take one down and pass it around, 97 bottles of b...

looks permanent to me
@EᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏIʀᴋ That one's locked and closed.
19:51
yeah
even if it wasn't locked
@wizzwizz4 what about dupes?
@EᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏIʀᴋ Why... Oh, mod. Wait, mod-closure's just like 5 vtcs.
@VoteToClose why the message deletion? you had a point
on this site, dupes are often closed for good (not always but often)
that's permanent
@EᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏIʀᴋ Because I was wrong. :P
@EᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏIʀᴋ But it doesn't have to be.
Dupes have been reopened.
@VoteToClose >_> at this point I don't even remember what it said
> not always but often
@NewMainPosts why is this starred
@wizzwizz4 no, dennis hammered + locked
nobody can VT-anything now
19:59
@EᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏIʀᴋ except me clearly
@EᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏIʀᴋ In this case, yes. But in non-locky ones my comment still stands.
yeah
> non-locky
thank you I have found my new favorite word
@EᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏIʀᴋ Probably a confusion between starring and +1'ing.
@EᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏIʀᴋ I was wondering that too.
bc the chat post was made before lynn hammered her own question
20:00
Self-closing dupe?
which was only like 5 min ago
@VoteToClose ninja'ed sorta
I doubt anybody went back just to star it bc that though
👨‍👨‍👧‍👧
is that babby
no that is not babby nvm
it's family
for some reason my browser copies it as 1 character
@orlp Sure it isn't just selecting as one?
Turn on carrot browsing.
20:17
"Die Bürger" in German means "the citizens", not "the burger" (as in, the food). I'm not sure how to feel about this.
I thought everyone knew hamburgers were made out of people from Hamburg.
@quartata The people of Hamburg are pigs?
No, not unless Soylent Green is too.
Now the off brand hamburgers might be some mix with pork in it. They'll cut corners anywhere they can.
@El'endiaStarman berliner is also slang for jelly donut iirc
ein berliner = a donut, berliner = somebody from berlin
That's funny.
20:24
I sense a theme...
0
Q: What is an "indirect" fatal error/exception/crash?

VoteToCloseThis is brought up for a future challenge found here. For challenges involving errors, such as error quines, where the intention of the challenge is to cause an error/exception/crash without directly invoking the e/e/c, what defines the e/e/c as "indirect"?

@EᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏIʀᴋ how dare you!
a berliner doesn't have a hole
Were jelly donuts a speciality of Berlin or something?
20:24
It is not a mug
@flawr jelly donuts don't have holes.
jelly donuts with holes are sacrilege.
Ich bin ein berliner!
@VoteToClose You're a jam filled bread.
I mean, chocolate coated bars are the best donut ever and they have no hole
"Ich bin ein Berliner" (German pronunciation: [ˈʔɪç ˈbɪn ʔaɪn bɛɐˈliːnɐ], "I am a Berliner") is a quotation from a June 26, 1963, speech by U.S. President John F. Kennedy in West Berlin. Kennedy aimed to underline the support of the United States for West Germany 22 months after Soviet-supported East Germany erected the Berlin Wall to prevent mass emigration to the West. The message was aimed as much at the Soviets as it was at Berliners and was a clear statement of U.S. policy in the wake of the construction of the Berlin Wall. Another phrase in the speech was also spoken in German, "Lasst sie...
20:25
@VoteToClose I know:)
Okay just checking :P
@EᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏIʀᴋ O_O what, donuts do have holes by definition!!!
Nor in England.
no, i mean holes are defined by donuts.
20:26
ah
yeah, makes total sense
I think your topology memes are too strong for them
@flawr donuts = hole-donuts, non-hole donuts, bars, fritters, and whatever you call those things that look like spiky crowns
I call those Starbucks donuts
You're questioning my hole existence!
@quartata ... that's a really good name for them
@flawr do you have the cancer that is starbucks in switzerland
20:29
@EᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏIʀᴋ yep, even in our holey trains
:/ do swiss starbucks also make awful coffee?
Yes. But to be fair, I think coffee is aweful in general.
0
Q: Fix the elections

AMDIn this perfect world the government actually works for the people. They notice that the (presidential) elections are about to be monopolized by the two parties, and most people will soon have no choice but to vote for either of these two. Officials determine that this is not good for democratic ...

The only coffee I like is the one where you add so much milk and chocolate such that there is no coffee left. Perferably even omitting the step of adding coffee in the first place.
20:35
why
coffee is good
@flawr did you mean to say "aweful"? or did you mean "awful"
That should have been an awful.
TIL awful does not contain an e.
yesterday, by flawr
chocolate > else
@flawr ah okay I thought you were saying you were in awe of coffee
@flawr I didn't say coffee is the best, but it is good yes
except coffee flavored chocolate eugh
@EᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏIʀᴋ agreed XD
ye
just why people
that's not even chocolate anymore
Did you ever have these guys?
20:42
wat is that
no tho
It is heaven on earth.
Yes.
I only like the chocolate ones tho
A macaron (/ˌmɑːkəˈrɒn/ mah-kə-ROHN; French pronunciation: ​[makaʁɔ̃]) is a sweet meringue-based confection made with egg white, icing sugar, granulated sugar, almond powder or ground almond, and food colouring. The macaron is commonly filled with ganache, buttercream or jam filling sandwiched between two cookies. The name is derived from the Italian word macarone, maccarone or maccherone, the meringue. The confection is characterized by a smooth squared top, a ruffled circumference (referred to as the "foot" or "pied"), and a flat base. It is mildly moist and easily melts in the mouth. Macarons...
The ones you can get here are expensive AF but I even like the coffee flavoured ones. And you know how much I like coffee..
ah we do just not in donut stores
Oh yeah, I've only seen them in super markets.
20:44
same
vons sells them
I've seen shops that only sell them
I guess it depends on where you live.
I think macarons are italian?
as with all cultural things
@Pavel french iirc
Wikipeida says: both.
20:47
I wish I could find a cheaper source.
Do you know these things too?
I've seen them
Don't remember what they're called
Some kind of soft hazelnut cookie with chocolate cream on top, covered in chocolate.
Image URL says: teegebaeck_schoggimakroenli
Delicious AF.
Yep we call them Schoggimagrönli (but that is swiss german)
But I ahve no idea what they're called.
I'm hungry now.
OOOOh and Amaretti of course!!!
20:52
@flawr Those look like "donut holes".
'Deutsch' is German, right?
@flawr Looks like a macaroon
I mean a kind obviously
@quartata Would make sense:)
20:54
Wikipedia does not have a page for Schoggimagrönli
@flawr I've had these before, they're really good
Not even German wikipedia
@Pavel I need to write one...
@quartata They have Amaretto in it, a almond liquor.
In fact, not even Google and Bing translate know what it is.
@flawr Schoggimakrönli?
s/g/k/ from your word
more results on google for me
20:55
@EᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏIʀᴋ That is what they call them in Zürich perhaps.
But still no translation/wikipedia page
schoggi = chocolate
(in most swiss german dialects)
Does anyone know of a C++ library that supports arbitrary precision integers?
@WheatWizard GMP
20:56
Though Google does detect the language is Icelandic.
@quartata Thanks!
@Pavel Haha, close enough^^
@flawr Haha I didn't even see what you called them. No wonder....
'night
20:59
'night
In other news please help addicted to Dota
I've made a terrible mistake
'Twas a joke, I didn't actually need help...
ik
so was my link
21:03
@EᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏIʀᴋ No idea. I've cleared it.
@EᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏIʀᴋ What is your favourite self made sweet-ish kind of food?
ice cream
wait self made
hmmm
This is something that's bothered me for quite a while: namely that whenever someone goes on a starring rampage or posts noise we end up having to create even more messages handling it that ultimately are noise too ("why the star?", "please stop", etc.). It would be nice if we could notify an RO or such and get it cleaned up without having to add to it (and feed the troll to boot)
ice cream sundaes
21:06
@flawr Banana bread
eugh bananas are evil
You don't like bananas?
I didn't even know that was possible.
@quartata That sounds interesting, need to try that!
@EᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏIʀᴋ how is that pronounced? Like sunday?
Bananas are clearly evil
@quartata that is correct
@flawr yes
afair
21:07
They're the most radioactive fruit.
@flawr They're a great use for overripe bananas
I don't trust 'em, the way the blend in with phones.
Gimme any fruit and I'm gonna make it even more radioactive than any banana.
In fact, THEY COULD BE IN YOUR HOUSE RIGHT NOW!
mmm banana bread with walnuts is the bomb
21:08
@quartata Do you have a favourite receipe?
3
Q: Is @realDonaldTrump a parody account?

user11388Is the Twitter account @realDonaldTrump a parody account, or is it actually controlled by Donald Trump?

2
@EᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏIʀᴋ ahahaha
HAHAHAHAHAHAAHA
@flawr Hmm, depends.
I can't have walnuts ;-;
Shouldn the best of ppcg 2016 post have been turned into a voting post by now?
@Pavel :(
@flawr iirc martin said he'd do it soon
Bananas actually taste good, but then my tounge feels weird for hours.
@Pavel That usually only happens with underripe bananas
21:12
I've just started avoiding them by principle.
Like I said, can't trust 'em.
@quartata I just read that. Pretty incredible.
Sweet! Bob Nystrom, the author of Game Programming Patterns (as well as several languages, including Vigil) has started work on a new book on implementing programming languages. Like GPP it's going to be freely available online but is going to be published bit by bit as he writes it.
5
@quartata Yeah. Unfortunately, the fact that there's no private-message system and any kind of flag is seen by every 10k user and mod, this seems to be the best system we've got.
@MartinEnder How soon can we expect the voting to begin? :)
21:22
@flawr I was going to start the voting earlier, but then I realised that I didn't specify a time when the nomination phase stops and some people might rely on getting in some last-minute nominations (like I did...) and it's not that late in the day yet in some time zones... so we'll just do it tomorrow.
Now I'm disappointed. I prepared the whole day for voting tonight.
2
You'll be fine.
> I’m publishing it a chapter at a time, sort of like “Great Expectations” but with less grim Victorian poverty and better code samples.
I love this guy. :D
yes
"First, I need to make sure you're a human. It's nothing personal, I promise."
Actually, I would say that being personal is the whole point.
21:37
TIL lol = "Lucifer, our Lord"
21:50
praise Lucifer
22:07
@EᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏIʀᴋ My new fav sub /r/behindthegifs/
yeah I'm subbed to it ;)
it's great
2
Q: The highest prime factor of neighboring numbers

Stewie GriffinI think it's easiest to explain this challenge in a sequential manner. Start with an input number N and: Find its highest prime factor Check numbers above and below N and see if the highest prime factor is higher (i.e. the highest prime factor of N-1 and/or N+1 is higher than the factor of N. C...

22:29
CMC: Interpret all CPU usages as a graph of amplitudes and play the sound they represent
2
Q: Find the identity sandpile

orlpThis question is about abelian sandpiles. Read this previous challenge and watch this numberphile video to learn more. An abelian sandpile of size n by n is a grid containing the number 0, 1, 2 and 3 (representing the number of grains of sand). Adding two sandpiles works by first adding elemen...

@wizzwizz4 lol, I happen to be currently reading a book by Aaronson (co-author of the comic) on the subject
That Sherlock was ever so slightly completely disturbing
No spoilers please.
No, I just felt the need to say that
22:35
@muddyfish Are they still (vaguely) using plot lines from the books?
@muddyfish ok I really need to watch this show
@HelkaHomba I haven't read the books to avoid spoilers for the show :D
I've been coding a guitar synth. The algorithm uses a (painfully slow) physical simulation of each string in a guitar (or bass) instead of a certain waveform with filters. Here's a sample output emulating a stereo-mic'ed acoustic and one mono bass from this very early version (literally the first version to produce sound).
2
^
@mınxomaτ Just curious, could this concept be applied to bowed string instruments?
22:44
Yeah.
I wonder how much CPU time it would take to compute an entire orchestra's worth of instruments :P
The problem is that it's slow. It's not feasible to use MIDI as an input, the synth has it's own sequencer.
@LegionMammal978 Oh boy.
Still waiting for that "Parse HTML with Regex" challenge.
Is it just a relly bad idea, or is actually not a thing you can do with Regex?
sorta bad sorta impossible
you can't parse arbitrarily nested html
the more nested it is the longer your regex needs to be generally
so it's possible given constraints
but you can't make a perfect html-parsing regex
22:59
It's also incredibly frowned upon.
The best demonstration I know is that you can't parse arbitrarily nested <div></div>s with a single regex because regexes don't have memory, so to speak.
If you have a specific constrained pattern you're looking for though, using a regex is fine.
I actually have no idea a good way to Parse it, I normally do it char by char, just like Grampa used to do it.
@ATaco Python has the aptly-named parser module in its standard library.
I don't use much Python. :(
Python has several XML parsing libraries
23:04
But Lua, Lua i speak.
You could probably find an XML parsing library for Lua.
The method of parsing isn't that bad to do char by char... it's just that XML itself is a pretty complex thing
But why would I use a pre-made Library when I can Re-invent the wheel every time?
Attempt at implementing a minor (no pun intended) fret slide: instaud.io/Iq7
I feel like the pun was infact intended.
23:12
I do not understand the pun.
In music theory, minor scale may refer to: a heptatonic scale whose first, third, and fifth scale degrees form a minor triad, that is, a seven-note scale in which the third note is a minor third (three semitones) above the first, and the fifth note is a perfect fifth (seven semitones) above the first. This includes (among others) the natural minor, harmonic minor, and melodic minor scales. A minor scale differs from a major scale in that the third degree in a major scale is a major third (four semitones) above the first degree. In other words, the third degree in a major scale is one semitone higher...
23:36
Oh, I crossed 120k and totally missed it...
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