The Nineteenth Byte

betseg

06:07

sometimes lightning speed, some times slower than a snail

Downgoat

@NewMainPosts wow I'm surprised this hasn't already been posted...

though I feel the Kolmogorov complexity tag is out of place since there's no data to be "encoded"

DJMcMayhem

@Downgoat That's a good point. I'll remove it

Now the only question is, should I FGITW the V answer or not?

Pavel

On your own question?

DJMcMayhem

Ye

Downgoat

Depends, how many instances of 🐐 are there in source code?

DJMcMayhem

06:12

42

Pavel

This 42... Is it being evaluated by BF, by any chance?

DJMcMayhem

@Downgoat Holy crap, apparently that actually renders correctly in vim.

Pavel

It would be a little sad if Vim didn't have proper unicode support.

DJMcMayhem

It doesn't really TBH

Pavel

Well, it is only the second-best text editor, after all.

H Walters

06:15

I've never used all

Pavel

>_>

please tell me that's a horrible pun and not serious

H Walters

False dichotomy; horrible puns are serious

Pavel

The point is, notepad++ is the best text editor.

Downgoat

@DJMcMayhem we'll if there actually is go ahead and post it but if not I would wait to avoid discouraging other answers

DJMcMayhem

Either way, right now I'm busy trying to fix V

Pavel

06:22

Downgoat

06:39

@DJMcMayhem that is fault of terminal no?

DJMcMayhem

No, I use gvim

Downgoat

Oh

so fault of gvim?

Kritixi Lithos

What's the difference between gvim and normal vim?

DJMcMayhem

@Downgoat Probably fault of font

20

A: What additional features do gVim and/or MacVim offer compared to Vim inside a terminal emulator?

Some features that will only work with gVim: Supports a much wider range of colors (RGB), while the terminal only supports 256 colors (see this and this). Some other more advanced graphical features, such as "wiggly lines" for spell checking, more flexible cursor shapes, etc. A terminal can onl...

Kritixi Lithos

So it is an application rather than something that can be run on the terminal?

DJMcMayhem

06:47

Exactly.

Pavel

It says gvim supports custom fonts?

Downgoat

@DJMcMayhem do you know if gvim/Macvim can open file over ssh

Or you know what I can do an iterm thing for that

DJMcMayhem

I don't have a mac so I don't know, but I don't see any reason why it wouldn't be able to

Pavel

You should use N++

Downgoat

@DJMcMayhem Well if the ssh remote isn't mounted, it would need explicit support

Pavel

06:51

@Downgoat I used your site's downgoatifying utility, but I noticed that my profile is more rust-colored while yours is actually red.

H Walters

Ah, done with my first custom stack snippet

@Downgoat My apologies; I made it to where you chase cheese because the unicode goat wouldn't render in IE

Pavel

For all its faults, Edge>IE. And it's already on your system.

Dennis

Maybe on your system.

H Walters

It's not on my system

Pavel

Well, it comes with windows systems, and IE doesn't come with non-windows systems...

H Walters

07:00

IE runs on macs and edge only comes on windows systems that it comes on

Edge is a Windows 10 thing

Kritixi Lithos

How does IE run on macs?

H Walters

Internet Explorer for Mac

Internet Explorer for Mac (also referred to as Internet Explorer for Macintosh, Internet Explorer Macintosh Edition, Internet Explorer:mac or IE:mac) is an inactive proprietary web browser developed by Microsoft for the Macintosh platform. Initial versions were developed from the same code base as Internet Explorer for Windows. Later versions diverged, particularly with the release of version 5 which included the cutting edge, fault-tolerant and highly standards-compliant Tasman layout engine. As a result of the five-year agreement between Apple and Microsoft in 1997, it was the default browser...

Pavel

I did not know Macs had IE.

Why would you put IE on a Mac?

IE by itself isn't very good, and I the Mac version is likely worse.

Kritixi Lithos

IE is a synonym for poop

6

Pavel

Yep, IEMAC discontinued in 2003

betseg

07:17

there was IE4L too

Downgoat

@Pavel yeah it doesn't handle gradients too well. i should make it use canny for bounds rather than color

Destructible Watermelon

that moment when you're playing nethack and realise archeologist can dig through the ground

Pavel

You know, I've heard of nethack but not anything about it. What's it like?

Destructible Watermelon

why not try it?

Pavel

Well, right now I can't.

It'll be an hour before I can.

It's free?

Destructible Watermelon

07:28

yup

also example of stuff

tourist has a camera, which can be used to blind enemies

Mistah Figgins

you should definitely try the hardest starting person first (tourist) ((sarcasm))

Pavel

Hold on. I have no idea what genre it is. From the title I can infer it's a sci-fi rpg..?

Mistah Figgins

text based

here's the guidebook

Pavel

Rogue-like?

Mistah Figgins

yep

Anonymous

07:31

My wife just punched me :(

Anonymous

She was complaining that the pages of her book were sticking. I suggested there might be too much pulp friction.

Pavel

Is that it? Nothing seems wrong about that.

Mistah Figgins

I think we should just ignore that and MU-ve on

Pavel

That's probably a good idea.

Destructible Watermelon

somebody told me not to eat a zombie corpse when I was playing nethack once

Anonymous

07:33

True story though

Mistah Figgins

don't do it in real life either

Destructible Watermelon

the temptation was too strong, then I died of food poisoning

Mistah Figgins

I did litterally the same thing

Pavel

That happened to me in Minecraft, except it was my friend over Discord.

Destructible Watermelon

hmmm, white potion

must resist the urge to quaff

nope

oh, it showed me a monster location?

wait WTF

Pavel

07:36

Hmm?

Mistah Figgins

sounds like monster detection

Destructible Watermelon

I got murdered by a bunch of invisible things

nope it actually must have summoned those things

Mistah Figgins

so you were suddenly able to see what was really there?

Destructible Watermelon

nope

Kritixi Lithos

are you playing on alt.org?

Pavel

07:39

So, basically you picked up a duck in a dungeon.

Destructible Watermelon

@KritixiLithos nope

@Pavel no

because at the beginning I knew it was a bad idea

Pavel

I just noticeds a message by TimmyD with 11 stars on it in the sidebar. "Members of the "hacking" community known as PPCG have assisted authorities in seizing one of the largest single-day drug hauls in the history of the United States. Asked how they infiltrated the criminal gang's hideout to secure the location of the drugs, one of the PPCG residents said "I dunno, I just clicked on a random camera link." -- CNN" Is it true, or a joke?

It seems like a joke, but I really want it to be true.

H Walters

Somebody needs to polish their BS filter

Pavel

Whenever people say things on the internet, I tend to believe them, even if it's ludicrous. The world is more interesting that way, and it doesn't cause problems as long as I don't try to tell other people about it.

H Walters

I'm just trying to actually imagine this happening. A CNN correspondent... hmm... signs up for ppcg or something, gains enough rep to talk, and then says, "Hi, can I get an interview with the guy responsible for this huge drug bust?"

Kritixi Lithos

07:48

After using the hjkl for movement instead of the arrow keys in vim, movement in nethack is much easier using yuhjklbn

H Walters

...then the guy says, "uhm, okay, I'm bored... wussup?" and the CNN person asks how they infiltrated the gang, the guy says, "I dunno, ...", the CNN person writes it down, and files a news report

Something like that?

Pavel

>_< Stop killing my fantasy

H Walters

Yes, it's absolutely true

Pavel

^-^

Qwerp-Derp

Hello

Pavel

07:52

Hello

Qwerp-Derp

I need some reviews for my sandboxed challenge about combinatory logic

Fatalize

@Qwerp-Derp I'll take a quick look

Qwerp-Derp

ais already provided some stuff, but I'm not sure if I need any clarifications

@Fatalize Once you read the spec, can you contribute some combinators here?

Combinatory logic

S K I and other stuff. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Combinatory_logic

Fatalize

@Qwerp-Derp Do K and S stand for anything?

Qwerp-Derp

@Fatalize Nope, not that I know of, I'm not sure if Zgarb knows though

Pavel

07:57

Does anyone know if there's a better way of converting an integer n to unary in java than new String(new char[n])

Fatalize

@Qwerp-Derp I is for identity though right?

Qwerp-Derp

Is there a challenge for converting arbitrary bases?

@Fatalize Yup, and it can be made from S and K

Pavel

No, I just have a regex that matches strings of composite length

Qwerp-Derp

So when given something like {number_as_array} {current_base} {convert_base}, it returns an array of numbers corresponding to another base?

H Walters

I'm confused about what new String(new char[n]) has to do with unary

Pavel

08:00

It creates a char array of length n. The array is used to create a String, which then has length n.

A string of length n is that int in unary.

Qwerp-Derp

So given something like [1, 2, 1], 3, 12 it returns [1, 2] because 1*3^2 + 2*3 + 1 = 1*12 + 1

H Walters

So basically what you want is, given a number n, a string that has n 0's?

Pavel

Any string of length n.

I think my example initiates it to null bytes, but I'm not sure.

H Walters

Yeah, but typically unary's written with 0

Fatalize

@Qwerp-Derp Do you have solutions for C and R?

Destructible Watermelon

08:04

I'm back

DJMcMayhem

0_0 I've visited PPCG every single day for over a year now.

Qwerp-Derp

@Fatalize Currently no, but I can make solutions (which will take some time, and might not be optimal)

Pavel

My searching does not reveal a problem to convert an int n to unary.

H Walters

But this is basically "repeat a char n times"

Your char is just 0

Fatalize

@Qwerp-Derp I think the challenge is clear and interesting. I'm not sure what heuristics I can use to solve this though, beside generating strings in a bruteforce way

H Walters

08:06

new String(new char[n]).replace("\0","0") would probably work

Pavel

The regex matches any string with length n, for composite n

Kritixi Lithos

@DestructibleWatermelon Should I wear the ring of polymorph?

Qwerp-Derp

@Fatalize Should I make an arbitrary time limit?

Pavel

@KritixiLithos The fact that you've asked that question here means that you probably intend to wear it anyway.

Qwerp-Derp

The time constraint makes for some interesting approaches though

Pavel

08:08

HAHA!

JUST GOT 1K REP

2

Kritixi Lithos

No I seriously don't know what to do with it

Pavel

Put it on.

Obviously.

I CAN NOW FIX PEOPLE'S SPELLING IN POSTS

Qwerp-Derp

I almost have 2.5k rep

Fatalize

@Qwerp-Derp No but you should find test cases where your baseline results are very long

so that there is room for better answers

Pavel

My very first post here was December 21st of 2016.

Qwerp-Derp

08:10

@Fatalize You understand how a new combinator is fed into answers right?

DJMcMayhem

@Pavel my first post here was October 2014

Qwerp-Derp

My first post was in March

@Pavel Congrats on 1k! Join the thousand club.

Fatalize

@Qwerp-Derp Not sure what you mean. The goal is to find the shortest string of K, S and () which when applied to the arg outputs the expected result, right?

Kritixi Lithos

Mine was on August '15

Qwerp-Derp

@Fatalize Mmhmm

I was asking if you understand the input system

And how it works

Pavel

08:12

I uh... Sort oh hit 1k earlier today. Then I dropped to 992 with a serial voting revert.

Destructible Watermelon

@KritixiLithos it'll be so funny, but I could find out what it does

Pavel

But now I hit it for real ^-^!

Fatalize

@Qwerp-Derp Probably not then because I don't even get what you mean by input system

Qwerp-Derp

Whoa wait what who serial voted?

Destructible Watermelon

Wearing a ring of polymorph will polymorph you from time to time.

Kritixi Lithos

08:13

@DestructibleWatermelon why is it funny? I could die :P

Qwerp-Derp

@Fatalize So like how input for the answer programs should work

Kritixi Lithos

oh right, I have no control over my polymorphs

Destructible Watermelon

polymorph changes your form

Qwerp-Derp

In the "Task" bit

Destructible Watermelon

you won't die probably

Kritixi Lithos

08:14

I could transform into a rat and then I wouldn't be able to carry anything

Destructible Watermelon

also remember to inscribe elbereth

like a bunch

Pavel

I'd rather not speak more about that incedent, I'd rather not get suspended again.

Kritixi Lithos

What role have you chosen?

I'm a male elven wizard

Fatalize

@Qwerp-Derp Well from what I read you only have to take e.g. [[1,2,3],[2,3,1]] as input

Pavel

Wait, I'm 1002 on Main but 992 on Meta. Wut.

Fatalize

08:15

or even just [2,3,1]

Qwerp-Derp

@Fatalize And brackets as well

New Main Posts

0

Q: Hello world quine

Make a quine, but include words 'hello' and 'world' in any capitalization in it. Valid codes: Inputs: hello world foobar hello world yes World, I will sayHELLOto you printhelloworld Outputs: hello world foobar hello world yes World, I will sayHELLOto you printhelloworld Invalid codes: Input...

Qwerp-Derp

But keep in mind this isn't code golf

Fatalize

@Qwerp-Derp Sure sure

You only have to take as input the expected output

Pavel

@NewMainPosts You're so late on that, It already got closed as duplicate.

Destructible Watermelon

08:16

> ... A variation for lawful and neutral characters is to polymorph humans such as shopkeepers and aligned priests before killing them, to avoid the penalties for murder.

loopholes!

Fatalize

and possibly the input arguments if that makes things simpler, though you can find them from the expected output

Qwerp-Derp

@Fatalize Actually that's true

Kritixi Lithos

But what are you? Which role have you chosen in your current game?

Qwerp-Derp

But this isn't code golf anyway, so I can make the input however I want, as long as it isn't too bad

Fatalize

Right

For example the name of the combinator is not actually useful to input, but it's not a problem since it's not code golf

@Qwerp-Derp Brackets can also be reduced when more than one pair wrap around the same objects, so something like ((((a)))) becomes a.

Qwerp-Derp

08:18

True

Fatalize

In a lot of your examples you end with brackets at the end, why?

e.g. (S I I (S I I)) or (x)

Qwerp-Derp

Good question

@Fatalize That's normal combinatory logic syntax (with one pair of brackets around everything)

Fatalize

So your first sentence is wrong

it should say (a)

Which is actually what the text say: " when more than one pair"

Pavel

Should an invalid answer be flagged as NAA or VLQ?

Qwerp-Derp

I got rid of the external brackets

@Pavel Which one

Pavel

08:22

-2

A: "Hello, World!"

GolfJoke (2 bytes) ×| (D77C in hex) D77C is 55164 in hex. Since empty is 1 and one-byte are 2 to 257, 258 is added to produce 55422, which is number of problem to be solved.

Qwerp-Derp

@Pavel Yup that's the one

Pavel

So, what's the policy for dealing with these?

Ok, it's been deleted.

DJMcMayhem

@Pavel Naa is generally better

@Pavel yup, that was me

Pavel

Ok

Fatalize

@Qwerp-Derp What's your initial algorithm? Bruteforce?

Qwerp-Derp

08:25

@Fatalize What do you mean "initial algorithm"? I haven't made a program for this yet

Fatalize

Ah

So you don't have test cases yet then :p

Qwerp-Derp

@Fatalize There's no top score, it's open-ended

So there technically may be a top score, but it's going to be hard (if not impossible) to achieve

Fatalize

@Qwerp-Derp In practice, if you put test cases that turn out to have really simple solutions, then it will be difficult to break ties

i.e. you should check that your test cases are actually hard

Qwerp-Derp

Oh yeah

Fatalize

e.g. by trying the simplest solution, which is bruteforce, and see that it's either way too long to find or that the answer is a very long string

Qwerp-Derp

09:04

How does lambda calculus work halp

Qwerp-Derp

09:17

@Zgarb Are you on halp

How do you type the "lambda" character

Kritixi Lithos

Here's a lambda: λ

Qwerp-Derp

Cheers

How to convert λa.λb.λc.bca into combinatory logic?

Fatalize

Bruteforcing a result is harder than it looks

Generating strings properly is not as easy as it seems

Qwerp-Derp

For the above question, if you can solve it, can you go step by step, please?

Downgoat

09:34

@zyabin101 you online?

Fatalize

@Downgoat I think he's chat banned

Anonymous

Just a little bit...

Fatalize

@Qwerp-Derp I have found no solution for any string of k and s of length 20 or less that solves (2 3 1) (excluding any parentheses, because it's annoying to generate exhaustively)

(unless my program for executing combinatory logic is broken ofc)

Downgoat

@Fatalize again....

Fatalize

@Qwerp-Derp Can the output be e.g. 2 and the input 1 2 ?

or will there always be the same integers in the expected output and the arguments?

Qwerp-Derp

09:45

@Fatalize Yeah, that could be possible

You don't have to use all of the arguments

But 3 in that case (input 1 2) is not possible

Fatalize

that makes things annoying…

Qwerp-Derp

@Fatalize If you know lambda calculus, you can do something like this: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/…

Fatalize

?- find_solution([1],C).
1
2
3
C = [s, k, k] ;
C = [s, k, k] ;
C = [s, k, s] ;
C = [s, k, s] ;
4
C = [s, s, k, k] ;
C = [s, s, k, k] ;
C = [s, s, s, k] ;
C = [s, s, s, k] ;

Definitions of I of length 3 and 4 with no parentheses

Qwerp-Derp

That's Prolog right?

Fatalize

yes

Qwerp-Derp

09:47

Oh cool

Let me test one of the 4-arg ones

Fatalize

Is there proof that it's actually possible to find one for 2 3 1 ?

Qwerp-Derp

CL is TC, so it is definitely possible

  S S K K x
= S K (K K) x
= K x (K K x)
= x

OK it works

Wait why do you have duplicates

Fatalize

Seems like it finds the same twice, probably a weird choice point somewhere

disregard it :p

Qwerp-Derp

Give me code!!!

Prolog's mainly used for logic right?

Fatalize

yes

It's slow though

Also my code for now doesn't generate strings with parentheses, and uses all arguments

Qwerp-Derp

09:52

Still give me code

I'm mainly waiting for Zgarb and his CL leet skills

Cause I need to ask him questions regarding lambda calculus and CL

Fatalize

Code here

Stupid autoboxing…

Qwerp-Derp

I thought .pl was perl

What's perl's file extension?

Fatalize

Do you have any combinators formulas that I can try to find back?

Perl is .pl, Prolog is .pl too

Though you can also use .pro but .pl is more common

Qwerp-Derp

What do you mean "combinator formulas"

Fatalize

Well e.g. Identity is s k k

Qwerp-Derp

09:56

Does anyone here know how to convert lambda calculus to combinatory functions?

Uhhh I'll give you something

C = S (S (K (S (K S) K)) S) (K K), C f x y -> f y x

Fatalize

good lord

Qwerp-Derp

B = S (K S) K, B f g x -> f (g x)

Fatalize

Ok so I definitely need to add parenthesis generation

B = B this I could have guessed :p

Qwerp-Derp

Taken straight from the Wikipedia page

Combinatory logic

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