The Nineteenth Byte

Poke

22:00

@TuxCopter x=71.5, y=648

ETHproductions

I keep trying to Ctrl+F to find words in there :P

Geobits

@Tux Restricting single numbers doesn't mean there still aren't an infinite number of possibilities.

BlueEyedBeast

143*324 == xy

Geobits

A graph might be useful. Maybe.

ETHproductions

I can't find "golf", except for a small "Golf" at the top left

BlueEyedBeast

22:02

x = 46332/y

Flp.Tkc

I found a microscopic "shit", barely readable

arda

git 2.11 out

Dennis

Git out!

5

Yodle

CMC: Figure out how many CMC's there have been up to this message (not counting this one).

Gabriel Benamy

@Yodle what does cmc mean

Dennis

22:05

@Yodle Please include test cases.

Poke

chat mini challenge

Gabriel Benamy

other than the my little pony definition

Yodle

@GabrielBenamy I believe code/chat mini challenge

Geobits

Eᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏ Iʀᴋ

@El'endiaStarman yes

> never runs games

Yodle

22:06

@Dennis Uhhh, using the search box returns 997 results (which I assume doesn't search all the way back), so larger than that probably :D

Poke

don't use the search box

it's useless

use El'endiaStarman's thing

didn't mean to tag there. oops

Eᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏ Iʀᴋ

why is "dota" on the most used words

Geobits

Gonna be hard to search no matter what. Sometimes people don't use the acronym, and sometimes people use it when talking about CMCs rather than issuing them.

@EᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏIʀᴋ I assumed because it was just for today, and somebody must have talked about it.

Eᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏ Iʀᴋ

and why can't I see "gonna", "up", or "give" in there

@Geobits no, that one was like all time

the starred one is today

Geobits

Link?

Yodle

22:10

Maybe we really like dota in here.

Eᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏ Iʀᴋ

26 mins ago, by ETHproductions

After removing lines containing HTML, and removing the 100 most common words

that one

El'endia Starman

@EᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏIʀᴋ I actually seriously doubt that ETH has yet done one for the entirety of TNB transcript.

Eᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏ Iʀᴋ

oops

Geobits

@EᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏIʀᴋ Is that really accurate? I mean, "ikea" has hardly ever been talked about in here beside today, yet it has a not-insignificant size.

Eᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏ Iʀᴋ

it's probably like last week

Dennis

22:20

Tfw you discover Apache's logs are eating 4.3 GiB of your disk space.

Eᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏ Iʀᴋ

lol

Dennis

TIO v1's requests by subdomain (2016-11-20 - 2016-11-27)

6

3 trumpscript Seriously?

Eᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏ Iʀᴋ

lol

TuxCopter

362 feu :3

DrMcMoylex

@Dennis Woohoo, second place!

(And seventh)

PhiNotPi

22:26

Woo 60th place!

Eᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏ Iʀᴋ

> 23 www

lol

DrMcMoylex

Hahaha

I wonder what percentage of v.tio requests were me

Eᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏ Iʀᴋ

^

El'endia Starman

@Dennis Yay Minkolang's on there! :P

Eᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏ Iʀᴋ

lol rotor actually was requested

Geobits

22:30

@Dennis I just cleared a full 90GB of gnome session logs a couple days ago. And then did the responsible thing by linking the log's filename to dev/null instead of figuring out why it was spitting so many logs.

DrMcMoylex

The poor dog...

Eᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏ Iʀᴋ

.....?

Maltysen

@DrMcMoylex haha I saw that too, was so confused

Geobits

Blame autocorrect

Apparently logs can't be possessive.

DrMcMoylex

@EᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏIʀᴋ bitsy sent his dog to /dev/null

Dennis

22:32

Wait, Befunge is #8, Befunge 98 #13? Did not expect that.

El'endia Starman

This is quite an impressive Star Wars fan-film: Darth Maul: Apprentice.

Eᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏ Iʀᴋ

@DrMcMoylex oic :p

DrMcMoylex

The thing that shocks me is that this was over a single week. I didn't realize any of these languages were that popular

Dennis

And I don't even remember adding #15 (Aubergine).

@Geobits Not really an option for a web server, but log rotation is currently keeping a whole year full of logs. That's overkill.

Geobits

A bit, yeah

Dennis

22:35

@Dennis You should add the most popular languages asap to TIO Nexus. Let the beta testing begin!

@Dennis Good idea!

3

TuxCopter

What

@TuxCopter Indeed

Geobits

Dennis is multiple people confirmed.

DrMcMoylex

@Dennis Hey, while we're on the topic, I've been meaning to ask you. Could you make a vim.tio that calls V with different command line flags? (For backwards compatibility)

Geobits

I knew one person couldn't be that omnipresent.

Dennis

@DrMcMoylex Like two incompatible versions? Sure.

DrMcMoylex

22:39

Sorta. Really more like two different languages

Dennis

Yeah, like Python 2 and Python 3.

DrMcMoylex

Sure.

I'm not positive yet how feasible that is or the best way to do it so it'll be a while before I ask you to actually add it

Actually, it would probably make more sense to have a completely different interpreter

Dennis

Yeah, that's the only way. I thought about supporting versioning, but it just isn't feasible because every language does it differently.

tio.run/nexus/05ab1e#@/@oYe7RHY9aFikc3q@j4Kmeq2Bg6uhk6Pr/…

5 done, 80 to go...

TuxCopter

'night

Eᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏ Iʀᴋ

@Dennis how'd you get it without edits? guessed the next message id?

@TuxCopter nn

Maltysen

22:49

@Dennis how do I run it?

nvm figured it out

but wow, that's confusing

you should make it an arrow or something, why is it a gear?

Dennis

@EᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏIʀᴋ No, I replied to another message, not the following one.

@Maltysen Ideone also uses gear(s) for run.

Eᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏ Iʀᴋ

@Dennis oh wait

oops

El'endia Starman

I still find the gear to be an unintuitive choice for 'run'. It's used in that role very rarely.

Maltysen

@Dennis also, I loved the look and feel of the old TIO, the new one kinda ruins it, why idk what it is specifically, it just looks a lot more busy and stuff (except the logo, love the logo)

Dennis

New designs always require getting used to. Yes, it looks more busy, but that's unavoidable if you want more features.

Maltysen

22:56

and there's also the weirdly placed blank spaces up top in the tabs

Dennis

@DrMcMoylex Can you make sense of the Debug output of tio.run/nexus/v#@394SY5XRcXhhoCslJTDDQXZh5e4R7oX/P/…?

feersum

Does anyone know how to find an orthogonal basis for a subspace of GF(p)^n?

Maltysen

@Dennis okay here are some concrete suggestions after a couple of minutes of thinking: code/i/o not being textfields

arguements not having that plus sign and input not having that pencil to reduce the monotony of the arrows

the font-size got smaller I think?

the header and footer are not necessary if you actually write test suites yourself, i swear its like 3 lines of code, further reducing the buisiness

DrMcMoylex

@Dennis I can't even see it on mobile

Dennis

F**king caching! Request desktop site, then unrequest. :(

Maltysen

23:03

code shouldn't be collapsable

DrMcMoylex

Nah, I just switched to desktop

Maltysen

also fix the spacing with the tabs

DrMcMoylex

@Dennis Do you have neovim installed?

Dennis

@Maltysen I don't understand most of your suggestions. What do you mean by textfields? What do you mean by tabs? What pencil?

Luis Mendo

@Dennis Small errata in TIO Nexus Community link: "prodcuts"

So the chatroom for TIO moved to gitter?

orlp

23:05

@DrMcMoylex do you want to have a go at my portal 2 level?

it's a very difficult puzzle

Dennis

@DrMcMoylex Shoot, I need neovim and the thing from pip, yes?

@LuisMendo The SE one still exists, but since it requires rep to participate, I wanted to provide an alternative.

Maltysen

@Dennis they're small single line textboxes now, which makes everything seems more cluttered

the tabs are the gear, permalink, and community buttons

DrMcMoylex

@Dennis Yeah. Eventually I'd love to have it all running through vanilla vim so I can run it on windows, but for now it needs neovim.

I'll try to see if I can make a friendlier error when neovim isn't installed

Maltysen

at least one mine, they're really weirdly spaced as opposed to the old one

Dennis

@Maltysen They expand/resize with input.

Maltysen

23:08

@Dennis I know, but if the default had them already presized to a few lines, it would make it a) look less cluttered and b) know more obviously which ones are the important textboxes I should start typing my code in

Dennis

Then you couldn't tell if there's trailing whitespace without playing with your cursor keys.

Maltysen

hmm good point

idk

DrMcMoylex

@orlp Sure. What's the link again?

New Main Posts

1

Q: Generate all brace-strings of length n

A brace string is defined as a string consisting of the characters *()[] in which braces match correctly: [brace-string] ::= [unit] || [unit] [brace-string] [unit] ::= "" || "*" || "(" [brace-string] ")" || "[" [brace-string] "]" This is a valid brace-string: ((())***[]**)****[(())*]*...

balanced-string

orlp

@DrMcMoylex steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=807899652

El'endia Starman

23:11

@Dennis Perhaps you could do something with the text background color so that it's slightly different from the text box background color?

mınxomaτ

I really liked the TIO mockup Downgoat did. More workspace-y, uncluttered.

Alex A.

Lol Code Review is getting ads meta.stackexchange.com/q/287242/287795

mınxomaτ

@AlexA. Wow, you're late.

Alex A.

Yes

Dennis

@mınxomaτ No offense to Downgoat, but it's uncluttered because it doesn't do anything yet. No input, only one command-line argument... And don't get me started on how it looks on mobile.

Alex A.

23:15

I never reread the transcript in here to catch up on what I've missed

@Dennis Where is this?

Dennis

vihan.org/p/tioclient

mınxomaτ

@Dennis Sure, but you can add features in a coherent manner. I wouldn't really use the TIOv2 at all, because you need to pause quite some time to comprehend the interface. It's just not really very intuitive. I also agree with everything Maltysen said above.

I'm not saying anything about the actually functionality of TIO or Downgoats thing, just that Downgoat's more traditional layout of a "development environment" makes more sense for me.

Dennis

Wait, are we talking about TIO v2 or TIO Nexus?

Not that it's a huge difference, but still.

mınxomaτ

Mostly tio.run.

Dennis

For reference: tio.run/nexus

mınxomaτ

23:19

That's not much better.

Dennis

:(

mınxomaτ

From a purely UX point of view. Your mileage does vary.

It breaks basically all UX flow that has been established in many (GUI) editors and IDEs. One can trivially add the components from TIO nexus to Downgoats UI without breaking UX.

Dennis

I've never used an IDE, so that might be part of them problem.

mınxomaτ

I think this symptom is called "coder UI" :D

@Dennis You use Atom, that's borderline IDE.

Dennis

But I disable everything except the text window.

mınxomaτ

23:23

For example, why re-implement a standard list as a vertical mess of quasi-buttons. The arch name for all the C options aren't even visible for me.

Alex A.

@Dennis lol then why do you use atom

mınxomaτ

The general idea is to have a flow from settings to workspace. Like from a sidebar selecting languages to actually using the language in the workspace. Basically what Downgoat did.

Dennis

@mınxomaτ Because there will be 100+ languages when it comes out of beta. That's a rather long list, especially on mobile.

But yes, the columns are a bit too small.

mınxomaτ

@Dennis ?? That's exactly the reason it doesn't make sense to do it like you did in TIO.

What's wrong with a standard, scrollable list?

Take the repo list from your GitHub dashboard for example. It's a simple, scrollable list. But it also has an instant searchbar for easier selection.

Dennis

Like the one provided by select?

mınxomaτ

23:27

Yes. Exactly like the sidebar settings in Downgoats example.

You are never going to implement all the edge-cases for clamping text and rendering the list etc. that HTML (or a framework like bootstrap) already provides.

The same way it doesn't make sense to scatter buttons across the whole horizontal space. They are not perceived as a group. Use a standard component like a toolbar, or group buttons closer.

Dennis

@DrMcMoylex Neither vim nor neovim... :/ Installed it and it doesn't error now, but tio.run/nexus/v#@394SY5XRcXhhoCslJTDDQXZh5e4R7oX/P/… only prints two newlines...

mınxomaτ

I'd actually just build off of Downgoats layout. Add settings and export/etc to the sidebar, expand the workspace with all the code fields you need (without collapsing them).

Maltysen

@mınxomaτ I actually liked his old argument collapsing things, where he didn't just use generic tooltips but +'s and -'s

Dennis

Sidebar might be a viable idea for a desktop layout, but it takes way too much space on mobile.

Maltysen

hamburger?

mınxomaτ

23:33

@Dennis This is why sidebars in UI frameworks collaps into a responsive hamburger menu on mobile.

You're reinventing the wheel and many parts of the whole car by doing responsive design manually.

(of course you would need a design in the first place :P)

Alex A.

@mınxomaτ whoa sick burn

6

mınxomaτ

couldn't resist.

Dennis

OK, I'll stop listening now.

Alex A.

@Dennis :(

If it makes you feel any better, online SRTEs are available

Maltysen

@AlexA. ?

Alex A.

23:38

@Maltysen Hello

Maltysen

hi

Calvin's Hobbies

Anyone else excited for autonomous car fleets?

Maltysen

@AlexA. but what are online SRTE's?

Alex A.

Student reported teacher evaluations

quartata

@Calvin'sHobbies Saw Tesla's demo on Twitter a couple days ago, hyped af

Maltysen

23:45

@AlexA. oh, lel

quartata

(not like I'd be able to afford one but still)

Calvin's Hobbies

It's just weird to think my kids (if I have any) will possibly never drive or even own a car

orlp

@DrMcMoylex still solving it?

@Calvin'sHobbies assuming the earth survives that long

DrMcMoylex

@Dennis OK, I'll try to look into it later tonight, kinda busy now though

Dennis

No rush.

orlp

23:56

EVERYBODY STAY CALM DON'T PANIC!!11!!

Transcript for