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00:00
well age doesn't make you any more mature or better at coding so...
here age is just like race, it doesn't matter (for the most part)
@betseg you haven't fixed the typo I pointed out in your profile
"16 years old"
@noɥʇʎPʎzɐɹC I'm not that old. Almost 19
00:17
is anyone here familiar with 05ab1e
What's your question?
how would i set an element of an arry
arra
array
As far as I'm aware there isn't a way; you should probably be using stack manipulation of some form instead
@Adnan
What are you trying to do with it?
There might be a better way
im like
trying to
set
a value of an array in a for each loop\
Roght but I mean what is the for loop for? Also sounds like you should be using for each and pushing each value on the stack then wrapping that in a new array
00:32
good idea
Actually probably would be better to use the global array
Can't type them on mobile but look at extended commands 7 and 38 in info.txt
@DJMcMayhem that was to betseg, but 0k
@Oliver you can edit your posts
ok
thanks @quartata
Np. Keep in mind though that a lot of commands vectorize over lists so you might not need to do anything at all depending on what you're doing
00:40
So that happened: wikileaks.org/…
01:10
@mınxomaτ this is evil...
@Shebang I though "hasParents" was a bit lame.
0
A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

MegoCategorize the asymptotic behavior of a consumer/producer system Given two functions P(t) and C(t), output the correct category for the behavior of P(t)-C(t) as t goes to positive infinity: Ideal: P(t)-C(t) goes to 0. Stable: P(t)-C(t) oscillates, with the time spent as a positive value equal ...

Anonymous
Could you possibly take the debate commentary to another chatroom so that those of us who don't care to see it don't have to?
Sure :)
Anonymous
Thanks :)
Anonymous
01:19
Bonus points if you move the existing commentary there :P

 Stuff nobody wants to see

Uh, politics and debate, I guess
Woo! I finally used my sweet RO mega-move powers :)
Anonymous
You're the best :)
I sincerely doubt that ;)
Anonymous
(don't tell Dennis)
01:49
@HelkaHomba (294,392,490) (98 * (3,4,5)) is pretty small at 1176, but not sure if smallest.
should my 2d esolang have mirrors?
Anonymous
@JonathanAllan It's the smallest with a,b,c < 500
should my 2d esolang only have mirrors?
how esoteric do you want it to be?
Your 4d esolang should have only mirrors.
01:59
in terms of flow of control, not the entire thing, I meant
Laser input, mirrors for flow control. Nothing else.
Anonymous
@Geobits And rotations define the commands?
Uh, sure >_>
Anonymous
Now that gives me ideas
Anonymous
It would be like an unholy combination of Befunge/><> and Wierd
Anonymous
02:02
You could define it in 3D by having "time" as a psuedo fourth dimension - flat mirrors "reverse the time direction" by making the laser go backwards
And half-silvered mirrors for threading lol
Anonymous
And some conditional mirrors for flow control
Anonymous
Ok yeah I'm going to make this now
Anonymous
Brb learning quarternions
02:04
I've forgotten most of what I knew about quaternions :/
Quaternions are confusing until you understand that they form a group and that's pretty much all there is to them.
Anonymous
And they're ideal for representing rotations
Only if you don't like gimbal lock.
Anonymous
Of course not
02:05
@Geobits That's what makes them ideal. :P
Anonymous
Though I guess a rotation matrix could do the same
Anonymous
Though since the only rotations would be right-angle rotations, quarternions might be a bit overkill
No forty-fives?
Nvm, I'm stupid.
someone ought to make a 3d or 2d language where there are multiple angles of rotations and it isn't on a grid
Floating point nightmare o_o
Anonymous
02:10
Simplifying math is always good
Anonymous
Except I have no idea what symbols to use for mirrors with an in/out component
Any interesting double-slashes in unicode?
Anonymous
I'm aiming for ASCII only
Hmm. Y could work as a gate. Maybe something with X.
Or a T instead of Y
Anonymous
Y would be split/combine (depending on direction)
Anonymous
02:15
X would be any-to-out
are lasers only cardinal?
or can they go diagonal?
Anonymous
@NathanMerrill Yes
what's the purpose of combining?
actually, its useful if it only outputs a laser if both sides hit it
That's what I meant by a gate
ok, then second question: are the lasers always going? Aka, do the lasers need to be combined at the same time?
02:19
Continuous vs burst?
or can the second laser come 20 ticks later?
right :)
Burst could be tricky, but it would be interesting
with burst, you'd have to develop some sort of looping mechanism that would keep a burst in a cycle until its ready
actually, with spitters, you may be able to convert a burst into continuous
er, almost. You could make it continuous every other tick
Anonymous
The lasers will be continuous, just like lasers.
Well there are bursty lasers :P
Anonymous
Here's what I have for mirrors (first letter is src, second letter is direction):
Anonymous
/ : RD, DR, UL, LU
@ : RO, IL, OR, LI
_ : DD, UU
C : IR, RI, LO, OL
% : ID, UO, OU, DI
! : OD, UI, IU, DO
| : LL, RR
O : OO, IO
\ : UR, DL, RU, LD
O? I?
@Mego @HelkaHomba, (294 392 490) is the smallest by sum.
Anonymous
02:24
O is out (coming out of the screen), I is in (going into the screen)
Oh right, 3d
Anonymous
Not to be confused with O (the out/in deflector)
oh, this is 3D.
what happens if up into @
Anonymous
Actually 4D
02:24
time doesn't count
Counting time?
Anonymous
Yeah, but time is weird and I haven't figured out how to work it in yet
also, you're missing 2 source directions
@Mego woah, the language Actually in 4d
@Mego Is that its name? Actually 4D? :P
Anonymous
02:25
So none of those change the time direction
Anonymous
@Geobits Oh god no
Really 4D sounds better
Supposedly 4D
only 81 other primitive triples with smaller sum, none of which have multiples summing to less where each leg contains a 9 in base ten.
Anonymous
@NathanMerrill Which ones? I'm fairly certain that's all of the combinations of src/dest except for straight through (which would be space)
Anonymous
02:26
Since it's a combination of Befunge and Wierd, I'm going to call it BeWierd
@Mego coming from Out or In
Anonymous
@NathanMerrill Look at it again.
you have 6 in directions, and 6 out directions
@Mego Is it actually called wierd, or is it weird?
02:27
@Mego ah, so what happens if the in direction isn't listed?
Anonymous
oh Wierd"
does the laser die?
Anonymous
There are exactly 6 cardinal directions in 3D
Anonymous
North, East, West, South, Front, and Back
I prefer Up/Down for my 3D world ;)
right, but what happens if / get hits by a Back laser?
Anonymous
@NathanMerrill / : RD, DR, UL, LU
Anonymous
DR
oh wait
I mean Back
Anonymous
02:29
Nothing
Stop or through?
so it passes through?
Anonymous
Yep
...oh I see Mego linked to catseye :)
Anonymous
@JonathanAllan Yeah I figured the website of the guy who wrote it would be a better resource :P
02:30
:)
do mirrors that don't list an effect for some direction block or allow passage through for those beams?
Anonymous
@Geobits Blockers are different from mirrors, and will have their own set of characters
so effectively, its: / : RD, DR, UL, LU, FB, BF
Anonymous
There's also redirectors, that redirect in a constant direction regardless of source direction
><^V ?
Anonymous
02:30
@NathanMerrill Yes, but I left off the passing-straight-through parts for brevity
right :)
Anonymous
@Geobits Yep, and whatever I choose for I and O (I might repurpose O to not mean I/O mirror)
Anonymous
Which I decided to do - G is now II, OO
Anonymous
And I decided instead to use the direction letters (LRUDIO) for redirectors, so <>^v can be used for joiners/splitters
Makes sense
02:33
what symbol to use for replacement? all letters are used, and the generic mirror redirect chars are used
Anonymous
Beams will be continuous, with c = 1 (taxicab geometry)
Anonymous
Mirrors and redirectors are instant
actually, that's not true
you'd need 6^7 = 279936 symbols
6 directions, plus stopping
Anonymous
I'm only going to use 2D splitters/joiners. Beams will have to be redirected if they're not vertical or horizontal
02:36
2D in what plane?
@Geobits SmoothLife does it fine
Anonymous
The screen plane
Also what is this
oh I'm making a beam language too
is there ever a case where a reflector does not, given XY, have YX, y and x being direction
02:37
so, 3D redirection is basically "go up to the next level?"
@DestructibleWatermelon I hope not, or it's not much of a mirror >_>
Anonymous
Yep
so why so many redundant pairs?
Anonymous
Source will be written in plain files, with a special character marking the end of a plane
Is this a 3D language?
Anonymous
02:38
4D
Anonymous
Scroll up :)
then in the interest of golfing, wouldn't it be better to have a "hopper" that simply moves you up X levels?
you could do like 1,2,3,4,5 to move up 1-5 levels, and 6,7,8,9,0 to move down 1-5 levels
Be sure to add portals too.
@Mego Aiming for what
or you could just do a single level hopper, doesn't really matter
02:41
@Mego So it's actually just 3D with mirrors that bounce the beam back?
Would lowercase o be omnidirectional flat mirror?
Anonymous
@ASCII-only Only ASCII characters used in source code
Anonymous
I have no idea what all of the characters will do yet
Anonymous
I took a golf break
@Mego Golf break?
I assume you'll be golfing in Go forever from now on per the orders of your new overlords
02:46
So how do you get planes to align
Hey guys I just made a language! I would appreciate feedback if anyone would like to take a look. github.com/Wheatwizard/Wise/tree/master
Anonymous
@ASCII-only I'm answering a code golf challenge
Anonymous
@quartata Hahahahahahano
Anonymous
I like Actually too much to give it up
Anonymous
@ASCII-only Planes will be separated by a special character. They lay right on top of each other.
02:50
I'm not sure if that's the best idea for golfing, looks like it would make it harder to golf
So how exactly would things like IO work, and how are lasers spawned/how are integers and tuples represented
@Mego maybe you should Actually Go with Seriously
Anonymous
@ConorO'Brien I'm starting to think that dragons don't exist for a reason
@ConorO'Brien Damnit I'm barely beating Jolf
Anonymous
@ASCII-only This isn't a golfing language
Anonymous
02:56
@ASCII-only The beam changing directions causes a command to be run (based on the direction change). I don't know what commands there will be, yet.
wouldn't that challenge be kind of good for turtlèd...
@Mego but I exist. regardless, our main reason for living is for puns of varying quality, most worse than others
@ConorO'Brien Haha, the only difference is that neither one is competitive, lol
this is true :P
@Mego Still, I don't imagine it'll look too nice when you have a small plane and there are too many newlines
02:56
@ASCII-only which language?
I'll see if I can shorten it any
Anonymous
@ASCII-only Who cares about how it looks? This is all about creating a monstrosity.
@ConorO'Brien The only language that is more ASCII-art oriented than both Jolf and V
I added compression too late for this though ;_;
@DJMcMayhem please do. jolf shouldn't be able to outgolf submissions. it's poorly designed and the person who made it made half the commands for like three challenges
@ASCII-only charcoal?
@Mego I wouldn't call anything a monstrosity unless it's worse than either Malbolge or Java
02:58
@ASCII-only maljava
Anonymous
It might very well be
Anonymous
@ConorO'Brien So Java code that's been run through an obfuscator? :P
@Mego basically. that, or decaf coffee
@ConorO'Brien Yeah, looks like Jelly is insanely short because of its compression
yeah. I have compression, I forgot about that
03:00
@ConorO'Brien Well, I'll try but I won't make any promises. V isn't really that great at KC because it doesn't have any fancy-shmancy compression
For anyone not on reddit: i.imgur.com/Jj7bCn9.jpg
Or builtin strings
that is true
Also Osable
thanks schoco, it did nothing to my string :P
03:01
That "compression" in the Jelly answer wasn't anything built in
wait there only like 19 chars in that
easy compression
OMG TURTLÈD is competitive!
@ConorO'Brien Shoco is only good for words
not winning, but beating a at least one golf language!
03:03
@ASCII-only true enough
@DestructibleWatermelon which one?
@quartata It's pretty much built in
Indexing builtin + alphabet builtin + baseconversion builtin = easy compression on par or better than most compression
Gah! v.tio is so slow! It's obnoxious for long programs
Actually, J and V
Tying with Jolf
@ConorO'Brien Muahaha, 13 bytes off!
Also D: Charcoal's compression isn't working for this challenge, link
03:14
@ConorO'Brien Your turn. :P
1
A: Take a ride on the Reading, If you pass Go, collect $200

DJMcMayhemV, 75, 62 bytes iFKCIIBAVWMG NPTNCCSPPSVCSPELSB JCVCORIBCMGkò2|9é lá òddÍ./& Try it online! Note the trailing space. Since the contains non-ASCII characters, here is a hexdump: 0000000: 6946 4b43 4949 4241 5657 4d47 0a4e 5054 iFKCIIBAVWMG.NPT 0000010: 4e43 4353 5050 5356 4353 5045 4c53 420...

Thanks for making me do that. It was fun!
I think that's the shortest answer that doesn't use compression
Anonymous
Technically if your code is shorter than the output, you're using compression :P
Yeah, but I'm not using bijective base 23/250. :P
03:29
Time to add more builtins to Charcoal
@ASCII-only Is there a charcoal tutorial yet? It looks interesting
$ git clone [email protected]:vsl-lang/VSL.git
Cloning into 'VSL'...
Permission denied (publickey).
fatal: Could not read from remote repository.

Please make sure you have the correct access rights
and the repository exists.
I swear git hates me
@DJMcMayhem Not yet, I will work on that soon when there are fewer builtins to add
just realised I need a new char for down in my esolang
@DJMcMayhem Also most of the time you can just use verbose mode, look in test.py for examples, verbosegrammars for verbose syntax, run with ./charcoal.py -v -c code or ./charcoal.py file -v, use -dv for to get non-verbose code
03:34
I guess I could make a "code page"
(replace literally one char with a unicode char)
seriousy, best nonalpha char for down halp
I'm guessing you're already using v?
all alpha chars are used, yes
I could make all but v, but doesn't seem right
Hehe, another 3 bytes off. This is fun!
! might be good...
question: can someone tell me output of ls -al ~/.ssh
03:40
... why do I get the feeling you are trying to trick into running that command...
even though is just ls
C:\Users\me>ls -al ~/.ssh
'ls' is not recognized as an internal or external command,
operable program or batch file.
:P
Anonymous
@Downgoat Use https://github.com/vsl-lang/VSL.git
Anonymous
Everything works fine when you follow the instructions
... ಠ_ಠ
it turned out there was actually some weird unprintables in my ~/.ssh/config file which caused bork
@Downgoat
[elendia@web455 ~]$ ls -al ~/.ssh
total 16
drwx------   2 elendia elendia 4096 Jul  2 04:28 .
drwxr-x---+ 13 elendia elendia 4096 Sep 18 23:25 ..
-rw-------   1 elendia elendia 1743 Jul  2 04:28 tempRSA
-rw-r--r--   1 elendia elendia  411 Jul  2 04:28 tempRSA.pub
03:46
what should char for replacement be?
@El'endiaStarman thanks :)
Anonymous
VSL is licensed under GPL3? Yeah I'm never using it.
;_; i did poll and everyone chose GPL3
I wanted to do apache-2.0
Anonymous
Copyleft licenses are barely better than copyright licenses - they're just as restrictive (completely excluding the possibility of using it in copyrighted code), but yay you get to see source code and modify it (as long as modifications and redistributions are licensed under something GPL-compatible)
we should of used WTFPL
Anonymous
03:51
MIT is great. It lets anyone do anything with the software, as long as it stays MIT licensed
> should of
Anonymous
@DJMcMayhem I wasn't going to point it out. If someone pointed out every time he made a spelling or grammar error, this room would be 90% people pointing out Downgoat's spelling and grammar errors. :P
Jul 16 at 23:48, by Downgoat
@Doorknob idk, i thought it was well established the goat is not good with words :|
i was gonna do witty remark but eh
not sure how to i/o in my new lang...
You're allowed to make grammatical/spelling error, but "should of" is particularly egregious.
:P
03:55
@DJMcMayhem Perhaps I should get a keyboard made have bigger keys
you complain about my grammar, i complain about your complaining
infinite loop of complaining
i.e. life
♫ Life is life! ♫
Anonymous
I really hope you speak better than you type :P
@Dennis Just out of curiosity, how long would this answer be if it didn't have the weird string compression/base-conversion?
@Mego pls stahp stalking/releasing personal footage, this is very unprofessional -1
@Mego i speak in Gaot++ so my speaking is up to your preference on gaot++
yesterday, by Helka Homba
...we talk about goats way too much in this chatroom...
@DJMcMayhem 58 bytes
challenge-idea-request: I need to think of challenge involving goats and ASCII-art
i was thinking of some goat heredity diagram but im sure that'll be a dupe
Oh, nice! I got to 59, so that's pretty good
04:05
@DestructibleWatermelon Nice!
I just got this one
and people say goats are crazy...
I'm currently trying to figure out the substitution thing in my 2d lang
has it been discussed before, whether making upvoting cost reputation would improve the quality of voting? i tried searching and haven't found a discussion on it yet
04:11
That sounds like a terrible idea. Everyone would vote less
why is that bad?
oh noes you somehow ninja'd me after I posted
@MitchSchwartz Because then good content will not rise to the top in the same way
how does that work
good content rises to the top?
4
04:12
also socks don't care about the cost
@MitchSchwartz also good point
1 byte builtins rise to the top
Jeff Atwood on June 13, 2011
In March 2010, we rebalanced our reputation system to favor answers.
hardly applies here
And not to mention, if it were to apply retroactively, ConorO'Brien would lose every single point he has. :P
PPCG's voting culture is a bit broken. I hope that most upvotes on answers that do not really deserve them are cast by newcomers that found us via HNQ, but I'm not so sure...
Anonymous
Thoughts: what if, instead of HNQ, there was "Curated Network Questions", where the questions that appears would be based on the votes cast by people with a certain repuation level on that site?
04:24
I'm not sure how to prioritise matches for substitution in my 2d esolang when the substitution isn't left to right...
@DJMcMayhem :( But Charcoal was designed not to really need a tutorial
@DestructibleWatermelon Not left to right?
you can substitute matching up to down
based on the direction of impact on substitute command
French HW halp pls: love or friendship
@DestructibleWatermelon What are you not sure about
i do not understand how this is related to french but teacher asked
04:26
@Downgoat 0/10 SE doesn't do your HW, also PPCG doesn't do French HW
@ASCII-only well, I definitely don't want the substitution to match any part of something already subbed in
@ASCII-only ;_;
@ASCII-only @TuxCopter pls halp how to build vsl
@Mego I don't know if it's as simple as that but it sounds like a good idea
;_; no default maek target
and I'm not sure whether I want to start from one side or another
04:27
@Downgoat I haven't pushed mine yet, I have default but badly borked, and the grammar is really unfinished and also borked
pls push your
i do not understand penguincopter's maekfiel
wait, I got it now
@Downgoat Is the question just those three words
I just realised my issues didn't exist
@ASCII-only yes
"l'amour ou l'amitié"
stupid autocorrect
@Downgoat No internet ;_; the earliest time I can push is in like 4 hours, also it is too borked to push, is c9 okay?
@ASCII-only wait wat if no internet how u tyep?
btw pls username consistency, r u ascii-only, mars ultor, or somebody
dis is very difficult
also my lang will have no conditionals
@Downgoat This is not my laptop (also my laptop is almost dead and I need to save battery for when I get internet, also I've been non-Unicode for ages already)
Well, at least on chat
04:33
Wait a second, ASCII-ONLY == Mars Ultor?
@DJMcMayhem Wait a second how did you not realize for so long ;_; nvm that isn't me, my only isn't in uppercase
@ASCII-only can you do a zip -r . | base64 and paste output here?
I think that sohuld work
@Downgoat What do you mean/do it where/I don't want to manually type a really long base64 string
04:36
it will base64 encode a zip of the folder outputting to stdout
@Downgoat Do you mind waiting 1 hour? I really don't want my laptop to refuse to turn on when I get internet
@ASCII-only I still have issues with SDL
not sure how to take i/o... also should I use some magic chars for matching for substitution?
@ASCII-only i will be fast asleep in 1hr
maybe try to upload to GH and i can see tomorrow then
@Downgoat Why not C9
@Qwerp-Derp What issues
04:46
@MitchSchwartz I feel like this would be good in theory, but I'm not sure about the effects in practice... perhaps if there's some restriction such as the rep cost only applying for sufficiently high enough rep users
0_0 that sounds even worse
It's a privelege to be punished for voting?
@ASCII-only same issues as last time
@ASCII-only wat i don't realize too
it's interesting, using the word "punished" here. one might think of it as a donation that (supposing it's e.g. -1 for you and +10 for them) magically increases in value when given :)
Can someone help with an SDL issue?
04:58
@Sp3000 The real solution to HNQ effect is to add the same restriction on posting to voting. If you don't know the site well enough to add an answer, you probably don't know the site well enough to vote

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