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22:00
@quartata Do you know what tasm: source file open error on ti83plus.inc means?
@JonathanAllan Link to Puzzling.SE question?
@ConorO'Brien chmod it lad
@Syxer I'm a filthy windows user, wtf is chmod?
@ConorO'Brien nope bai
Irrelevant
@ConorO'Brien You have chmod on Windows too.
@El'endiaStarman ._.
22:01
@El'endiaStarman what
It's for changing permissions.
it's not in the help command...
4
A: A weird Shepherd with his sheep

Jonathan AllanI am still searching... I am looking by using this Python code: Furthermore as noted by @elias Reduced bounds from before I started a search... Because A lower value for the upper bound is: Lowered further by @astralfenix to This can be lowered a touch to

@ConorO'Brien Probably missing the include. Needs to be in the same directory
oh link to answer, same diff
22:02
.....err, now I'm wondering if I'm being confused by the fact that I have UnixUtils on my computer...
@quartata the same directory as the source file?
my code is not particularly efficient :p
yea I think
oh no wonder. I don't even have an include file
.-.
it got me down to 114 sheep and seems to have stalled (well it got me down to 116, but the lowest number in the set was 3, so I subtracted 2 off every number)
22:03
> TI83PLUS.INC file (included)
included where ._.
It's there one second
By the way archive all your programs before you run something in assembly
(2nd Mem)
gotcha
I'm just missing TI83PLUS.INC
I think it comes with the SDK on TI's website? check the links section
I set this assembler up a while back and now I can't remember
ok
@quartata does this look right? TI's website only has the "documentation" manual, not the actual download :P
22:18
I have very strong opinions about the quality of TI's site
None of them are positive
@uoɥʇʎPʎzɐɹC No how
Yes I think that's right
@DJMcMayhem I feel you wholeheartedly.
@El'endiaStarman could you unfreeze this?
Guys, I had a great idea for that logic gate challenge
You'll find out later though (I don't want someone stealing it -_-)
22:35
People here don't usually steal one another's ideas.
@El'endiaStarman HEELP
It's happened a couple times by accident.
Is there an upper bound for the number of cascades happening for this sandpile problem?
no
but i mean, there is some limit on the input t that you can handle in your language
@flawr Yes: the total number of tokens. :P
22:36
@El'endiaStarman I can't risk it
and the # of cascades is bounded by that, so
@El'endiaStarman Really?
@EricTressler oh yeah, I mean given a certain t.
@DestructibleWatermelon And the hundreds of people who use the Sandbox can?
I actually have no idea if the order of #cascades is bounded by sqrt(t) or log(t), but I would guess it's about like sqrt(t)
That's a great question
@El'endiaStarman That isn't the same...
22:38
It's probably in the literature. I bet it's in the OEIS
@EricTressler Is there a convincing argument that t is a bound?
@El'endiaStarman yeah.... post traumatic shock over the cosmic number problem that got like 10 sandbox votes
Hello guys!
Hello :|
3
22:39
@flawr a cascade sends at least 1 token toward the boundary. at the boundary, nothing can spill
@EricTressler OEIS has everything. Almost.
@El'endiaStarman Do you have an argument for that? I just don't get it.
@EricTressler I mean a bound on how many times the cascading happens, not the size.
flawr it can't actually happen, but the most spread out it can possibly be at time t is a diamond of 1s with perimeter t
well, it happens at time 4, but never again
Protip: If somebody links you OEIS, you know your question has an issue. (Looking at you, @Neil :D)
protip: oeis questions are just as valid and fun as regular questions.
4
22:41
@TheBitByte There's no problem if a statistic of my question is in the OEIS. Why would that have any bearing on anything?
@flawr I think Eric's argument is pretty clear and succinct.
Also, my upper bound is not at all a minimal upper bound for any situation (at least, for the infinite grid variety).
flawr, think of "sending a chip toward the boundary" as the light cone around the sandpile. the speed of light in this automata is that speed
@EricTressler When your entire question can be answered by a single OEIS link, you gotta realise the issue in your question.
I just answered one of those, code was from OEIS itself too.
@TheBitByte What's the issue?
@TheBitByte I disagree with you on that, there are plenty of things in the OEIS that are intractable and in the middle ground between trivial and intractable
22:45
who raised the flag :/
@EricTressler Hm, I was worried about some oscilations. I still can't really wrap my head around it, but it is probably gonna make my code shorter and more inefficient, which is good.
@EricTressler I disagree. I just answered one of those questions. Code was ready from OEIS itself and already golfed. I didn't have to do anything. If OEIS users can golf it, then so can anybody. Trivial question.
@TheBitByte you found an example of a bad question in the OEIS; that doesn't support your claim that "if it's in the OEIS, it's a bad question"
@TheBitByte this is an example of an oeis link with nontrivial computation. Refrain from making hasty generalizations.
@EricTressler Literally the top upvoted comment on that question is the OEIS link.
22:47
@TheBitByte Yeah, that's just to let others know it's in the OEIS, to help clarify or make things easier for some people
@ConorO'Brien eek knots
@ASCII-only Or to sarcastically mock the question as well...
@TheBitByte Not everyone thinks like that.
@quartata knots are scary ._.
Maybe the formula is there, and it's golfed for some language, but that doesn't mean it's easy to golf in every language.
22:48
how to access pictures on my phone
@DestructibleWatermelon Android? Which version? Which model?
android on mac
@DestructibleWatermelon USB connection?
@TheBitByte there is an OEIS sequence; if you can add a new term to it, you can publish it in a combinatorics journal
22:49
@DestructibleWatermelon Android should ask to enable USB mode
I do remember getting that android to mac thing
I guess I don't have it now
@TheBitByte I see you've come here only recently. Please note that many if not most users here have plenty of experience on this site, so if everyone is doing it wrong in your perspective, you might reconsider your perspective, instead of making accusatiosn.
5
darn file transfer is not working
@TheBitByte This answer is not golfed, and furthermore, it's pretty tacky to just take and use other people's code, even with attribution.
@flawr You want to argue like last time? I have better things to do.
22:54
@TheBitByte Yes, please go do better things than arguing with people in here.
7
@TheBitByte No I want you to show a certain amount of respect for the people in this community.
@flawr So, I never answered you formally, because I'm not sure what the bound on #cascades is. I'm curious, so I'll let you know when I find one
@flawr There's a sandbox chat if you want to argue all over again. Better yet, stop doing it each time.
@DestructibleWatermelon I think I know how to do it.
@TheBitByte I'm not gonna stop until you change.
@DestructibleWatermelon First, you gotta change your phone settings to "USB Media" or something. Not "Mass Storage"
22:56
I downloaded the application but it doesn't work
@EricTressler After some tests it seems that even something like t/2 might be a bound.
@DestructibleWatermelon What application?
Okay, so here's how it goes:
@flawr help me find this reference, please? I don't actually have running code here, nor Matlab. Can you tell me the # cascades at t=4,8,12,16,20,24,28?
1,1,6,something
22:58
also how to change to usb media?
@EricTressler I'll just paste the whole vector
@flawr cool
@DestructibleWatermelon It's long post I'm writing, wait.
@EricTressler [0 0 0 1 1 1 1 2 2 2 2 3 3 3 3 6 6 6 6 6 6 6 6 7 7 7 7 10 10 10 10 12 12 12 12 12 12 12 12 13 13 13 13 18 18 18 18 18 18 18 18 18 18 18 18 25 25 25 25 25 25 25 25 25 25 25 25 25 25 25 25 28 28 28 28 34 34 34 34 34 34 34 34 33 33 33 33 39 39 39 39 39 39 39 39 39 39 39 39 45]
These are the first 100
23:01
@DestructibleWatermelon Which Android version?
@flawr, I don't understand. Is that the cumulative # cascades? How do you go from 3 3 3 3 to 6 6 6 6, when 6 cascades happen at t=16
how to find out android version
Oookay
Open settings
Scroll down to "about phone"
Click on it.
And then scroll down again.
@EricTressler Ah right that might be unclear: I start with an empty matrix and put the number t in the middle. Then I apply a "cascading" function n times untill there are no values greater than 3. The cascading function just applies one cascading step on all the values that are greater than 3.
@DestructibleWatermelon On Android KitKat: (could be different for your model if you have an OEM skin, etc)

Open Settings, Open Storage, Check if you got "More Options" menu. Click on it, press USB settings or whatever it shows, select "MTP" or " Camera PTP", whatever your device calls it.

Then, connect your phone to Mac using the USB cable. Open Finder. There's a list of drives, right? "Look for Android File Transfer", and double click the icon.
@flawr ah. If we want a chance to find a reference based on this, we'll need a count of the number of spills that happen at each time step
Can't see more options
23:06
@flawr but I will write code to get that, later. Actually, yours is probably a smarter way to go about it for this challenge
@EricTressler lets see=)
@DestructibleWatermelon Do you see USB settings? Some sort of thing which says "USB"
Press it
is there an easy argument that the sandpile group is indeed a group, i.e. every sandpile is invertible?
@DestructibleWatermelon Remove USB. Reconnect, check quick settings menu, select MTP/PTP
Quick settings = notification area
23:09
nope, not there
@DestructibleWatermelon What model phone?
The notifications area, when you connect the USB, it shows a USB notification, no?
Click on it.
What model of phone do you have?
wait, I got another usb cable and its better I think
It has nothing to do with the quality of the USB cable man.
23:12
well, it worked...
Actually it does. I had a really shitty USB cable a while back and while I could use it to charge (barely) I couldn't transfer files at all
i think the other was just a charger or something
The charger has a USB cable. Unless it supports only power and not data, then it should work.
@xnor Check en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abelian_sandpile_model under "sandpile group"
@xnor In the very specific case here it's definitely invertible, because there is only one time t where the numbers on the grid sum to t
so the unique inverse position is the configuration at time t-1
of course, it's not useful to think of it as a group then, since it's isomorphic to the free group
@EricTressler Sandpile groups are confusing, but groups they are.
23:16
... where are my images
@DestructibleWatermelon Did you do the MTP/PTP mode thing?
Just do it.
I gave you two ways to enable it,
@xnor the sandpile group consists of recurrent configurations. In the infinite grid with no sink, there are no recurrent configurations, so the sandpile group as defined on Wikipedia isn't in play here. On a finite graph with sinks, a group structure arises
@EricTressler thank-you, i was confused about the finite case vs the infinite case here
@EricTressler Are you saying Sandpile groups aren't groups? They are.
it's still not clear to me though whether a finite sandpile in ZxZ with no sinks can be inverted by an infinite sandpile
23:20
@TheBitByte No. Cf. the chat log
@EricTressler Cf??
@xnor I don't understand what you're asking.
A sandpile is a function from the graph vertex to $$\mathbb{Z}_{\geq 0}$$

Weird, ChatJax doesn't work.
I've connected, but I can't find the images
@TheBitByte c.f. = cross reference
connect your phone to Mac using the USB cable. Open Finder. There's a list of drives, right? "Look for Android File Transfer", and double click the icon.
working now with ptp
hooray
@EricTressler i was thinking it might be possible to have a non-empty configuration of sandpiles on the grid graph so that if you topple the sandpiles, the sand gets pushed off to infinity with all cells stabiliziing to zero in in the limit, much like ...111111 + 1 = 0 with 2's complement, but on thinking more it seems clearly impossible
@DestructibleWatermelon Finally!
@xnor It'd probably useful to see whether it's possible to configure sandpiles on an infinite grid, with at least one pile within the center-most 9 spots, such that once you topple them, the center-most 9 spots are clear.
Actually, I'm not sure it's even possible to clear a 2x2 square if there was at least one pile inside it.
23:32
@El'endiaStarman I don't think it's possible to clear two adjacent cells
if any domino starts with anything in it, it ends nonempty
because when one half clears itself, it unclears the other half
I think you're right on that.
@betseg Woah, it's been ages since an xkcd garden was posted in here...
But yes, I do like it. :P
@El'endiaStarman they are awesome
@betseg All the xkcd garden links. (And a little more.) (Updated since not all links were included.)
23:47
@betseg Why are you hosting chat content on another server?
@El'endiaStarman o nice
@TheBitByte wat
@betseg Who owns the TNB data explorer site? I thought that's against the SE ToS, but I'm not sure.
@TheBitByte site isnt mine, soooooo
@TheBitByte The data came from the public transcript of this chat room, so I doubt there's any problem with it.
It's non-commercial use anyways
23:53
CMC: port Space Engine to Linux. It's listed platinum at winehq but I can't run it :/
@TheBitByte I mean, the ToS says that it's under CC-BY-SA 3.0, so as long as attribution is provided it should be fine
Yeah, chat messages would fall under Subscriber Content not Network Content
More to the point why are you deliberately trying to stir up trouble
7
> Under no circumstances will Subscriber use the Network or the Service to... (d) knowingly post any... inaccurate or incomplete material
So you'd better golf your answers before posting :p

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