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11:00 AM
those knowing sed, please revise my answer about the exempt to the "no input allowed" posted in Meta. It seems clearer to me. I could then use it, as I've been using it till now with no objections.
0
A: Are languages like sed exempt from "no input" rules?

seshoumaraYes, if the input is an empty string sed -f script_file <<< "" Since sed absolutely requires an input for the script to execute, an empty string is sufficient. This is clearer, since you directly see the syntax, no extra programs needed, and could be easily modified to display an actual input ...

 
@seshoumara Doesn't make sense.
The problem is that an empty input has 0 lines.
An empty string has 0 lines.
 
echo|sed that is proposed in the other answer is the same as sed <<< ""
I just find the latter syntax easier to explain and reusable if an input is indeed allowed
 
0
Q: Substract the next numbers

Paul SchmitzDescription Substract the next P numbers from a number N. The next number of N is N+1. Look at the examples to get what I mean. Examples: Input: N=2,P=3 Calculate: n - n+1 - n+2 - n+3 //Ending with 3, because P=3 Calculate: 2 - 2+1 - 2+2 - 2+3 //Replacing N with 2 from Input Calculate:...

> 35 secs ago
 
@fee
 
So it's a disguised way of entering an input containing a single newline?
 
11:04 AM
i think i am the bot now
 
@feersum yes, which is the absolutely minimum input required by sed to start
 
OK.
 
@MartinEnder I thought I'd discovered a bug in your Retina solution to the hexaregex challenge, until I realised I was using | instead of ¦ - I hadn't even noticed those were two distinct characters before today...
 
I don't like that method since it seems to be attempting to make the input appear empty, when it actually isn't.
 
SOMETIMES I WONDER IF YOU WANT ME TO DO THIS JOB AT ALL
11
 
11:05 AM
@NewMainPosts lel ninja'd again
 
and it doesn't use a coreutil command
 
@ReleasingHeliumNuclei don't try to be newmainposts please
 
come to think about it it is empty, not a newline
 
@ReleasingHeliumNuclei doesn't count as ninja'ed if you aimed for it
 
sed l just prints $ which means end of input
sed "l" <<< ""
 
11:07 AM
$ wc -c <<< ""
1
 
no, wait, there is a newline!
sed reads each line, so the \n is not put into the pattern space
 
Hello
Does anyone play Clicker Heroes here?
 
in conclusion, sed <<< "" is the same as echo|sed, I don't like the echo version since as a standing language I don't need another coreutil command to start it
 
@EᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏIʀᴋ i wanted to check my rep, saw the new post. What should i do? Wait for the bot?
 
11:09 AM
Isn't echo usually a builtin?
 
in bash yes
?
 
Either way, your answer is still inaccurate, since it claims the input is empty.
 
i don't know, the point is that sed can start without
so, if I change it to an newline, it will be ok
 
@ReleasingHeliumNuclei If you really don't want to leave this page to check your network rep, you could always add a few blank lines to your next chat message, and then immediately edit it back down to one line
 
11:12 AM
@trichoplax on mobile i can't add blank lines
 
@feersum I didn't claimed the input is empty!
i claimed the input is a string which is empty
 
That's the same thing.
 
@ReleasingHeliumNuclei Ah, I see. You could always post a onebox and then immediately edit that to what your next message was going to be...
 
An empty file or an empty string contains 0 bytes.
 
no, an empty string is parsed by sed differently than no input
 
11:14 AM
Your input contains 1 byte.
 
After the ongoing discourse(s), if any, want to play a game?
 
Now feersum's avatar is really confusing me
 
@trichoplax Norepro.
 
gravatar is weird
 
works4me
^^
 
11:17 AM
it appears as blue in the ping autocomplete list
 
Ooh, chat bug.
 
It seems to have been working differently for different people for a few days. This is the first time I've seen it give different behaviour in the same setting, rather than a mismatch between different sizes or locations
 
Type @aaa<Tab><Backspace>
And it inserts an actual backspace character.
 
11:19 AM
 but it open the transcript
 
@feersum For me I get aaa and a backspace character but it also goes back a page in my browser...
 
Fixed.
 
I forgot the @.
Try the instructions again now.
 
@EᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏIʀᴋ IT'S A TRAP!
 
11:20 AM
OH reduced repro case.
 
In case anybody is wondering, @feersum is somehow managing to troll everybody.
 
<Tab><Backspace> is all you need.
 
That's what the ackbar potato meant.
 
Doesn't go back a page here.
 
"IT'S A TROLL"
 
11:20 AM
Only inserts <BS>
 
@feersum how do you name a string with no characters?
 
Um, an empty string?
 
No it isn't trolling - I often get this problem where pressing backspace sends me back a page because I accidentally clipped the tab button beforehand, and it does display the extra character for me too
 
it's a name I took used in every programming book
 
11:21 AM

 
is tryitonline down
 
Hey, this is a way easier way to make empty lines than ZWSP :P
 
@feersum i see what you did there
 
what is the problem?
 
11:23 AM
^^^^^^?
 
@βετѧΛєҫαγ Revert! Revert!
 
Huh, well it seems that substract means exactly the same as subtract...
Maybe I shouldn't have rejected that edit
 
And TIO is down @ dennus fix plz
 
@ReleasingHeliumNuclei It's not just you! tryitonline.net looks down from here.
 
11:27 AM
Gahh
 
@βετѧΛєҫαγ I would have rejected it for changing "a number N" to "a N number"
 
@zyabin101 isup.me
 
Yes.
 
@trichoplax Sorry for the confusion. :)
 
11:28 AM
> It's not just you! tryitonline.net looks down from here.
 
Does anyone play Clicker Heroes?
 
Nope, I don't have Flash.
 
@feersum it won't return to the first row if the value is positive. it would wrap to the empty bottom row and from there back to the left corner without passing through the top row again.
 
But I play "Feed the Entropy Pool." :P
 
11:30 AM
@zyabin101 How do you not have Flash?
 
i don't have Flash too
 
@zyabin101 What is "Feed the Entropy Pool"?
 
@MartinEnder It's hardly your fault that I haven't finished learning where all the buttons are on my keyboard. I still haven't worked out how to type ¦ yet. I'm pasting it into this message... On my keyboard it's the third character on a single key, and I have no idea how to access it...
 
@DerpfacePython I don't have Flash because it doesn't work here. Also, occupyflash.org
 
> This is the kind of algorithm which is secure against today's technology, and also tomorrow's technology, and technology used by aliens, and God's own iPad as well.
for /dev/random
 
11:32 AM
@MartinEnder Oh I see.
 
@DerpfacePython I installed PWGen, and it has an option to manually feed its entropy pool with real-time events, or random data from a file.
 
Haha.
 
I try to get as much in as possible. :P
 
So does anyone play any incremental games?
 
11:33 AM
me
 
@DerpfacePython Used to, until I lost my data. But ditto the others, Flash is getting phased out, Adobe even renamed the product Animate
 
38
A: Is "substract" (versus "subtract") a proper word?

ShreevatsaR"Subtract" is the word. Though the obsolete word "substract" did exist, any occurrence you see these days is most likely just a common mistake, formed by analogy either with "abstract" or with other languages whose corresponding words do have two ‘s’s. Many recent dictionaries do not list "subst...

 
I haven't really encountered bugs with Flash.
What incremental games?
 
Okay, so I use the 20 most common words trigrams file I created, and...
 
It's less bugs and more security vulnerabilities, I think. Or at least that's one of the reasons
 
11:34 AM
"1740 bytes added to entropy pool." Hot dog.
 
@trichoplax Alt Gr
 
@zyabin101 I think it helps if the data is random...
 
So the security vulnerabilities are designed on purpose? :)
 
@MartinEnder ¦ - ha it works! Thank you :)
 
11:36 AM
I edited to specify that the outcome is the same as echo|sed
 
@trichoplax Nope, it's just a trigram file generated from the 20 most common words with the PWGen trigram generator tool.
 
@DerpfacePython kittensgame
 
@seshoumara I see, what you want is "an empty line", not "an empty string".
 
rarely, but I do enjoy it
 
@NathanMerrill Link?
 
11:37 AM
@feersum yes, but in computer terms I can't call "" an empty line
so I called it an empty string
 
@zyabin101 I mean if you feed it with non-random data it won't increase the entropy as much
 
?
oh duh
there we go :)
 
brackets then parentheses (alphabetical order...)
 
@seshoumara "" is an empty string, but that's not the actual input given to sed!
 
the problem was that the link didn't look like a link
 
11:38 AM
The actual input is "\n".
 
(it didn't start with htt)
 
Which is a single empty line.
 
@NathanMerrill Oh I see - you got it right the first time anyway
 
yeah :)
 
@DerpfacePython I used to play Tap Titans/CH/CoTLI/IoU
 
11:40 AM
@feersum or to wc -c for that matter
 
@ASCII-only Used to?
 
@DerpfacePython Yeah, I try not to
Also Candy Box 1/2
 
now try explaining this behaviour: echo -n|wc -c gives 0 bytes, yet echo -n|sed actually starts sed which I know requires input
 
Of course it starts sed.
 
why?
 
11:43 AM
You invoked it.
 
I ment it runs sed with no error complaining about input
try sed l and echo -n|sed l
 
I can't tell what you're writing. Try code formatting with backticks.
 
I didn't knew they work in chat
sed l it is a lowercase L
 
You can also use ctrl K in chat to make the whole message code
 
ok, good to know
test sample
cool
seq 3|tr -d \\n
it helps a bit, yes
 
11:55 AM
^ Might be helpful]
Though it seems to break some stuff
 
@MitchSchwartz I was wondering, why did you submit something earlier as mitchs (tails)? Are you tails as well, or did you collaborate with them on the answer, or does it have nothing to do with the user tails at all?
 
I think it means mitch golfed tails' answer/used ideas from tails' answer, so it's giving credit
 
Is it me or does TIO not work currently?
 
38 mins ago, by zyabin101
@ReleasingHeliumNuclei It's not just you! http://tryitonline.net looks down from here.
 
@zyabin101 Thanks
 
12:05 PM
You're welcome :3
Currently playing Cookie Clicker.
 
so the upvotes from the Meta site don't count as reputation?
 
17 mins ago, by βετѧ Λєҫαγ
https://github.com/beta-decay/Is-TIO-down
 
Nope.
 
@trichoplax You're a mod on puzzling aren't you?
 
@seshoumara no
 
12:22 PM
@βετѧΛєҫαγ on Computer Graphics
 
Oh :P
I need a Puzzling mod
Please mark this as status-completed! — narawagames 3 mins ago
 
6
Q: How can I conveniently dump a backpack or bag of holding?

Tim PostAfter completing some odd quests to get a special sword, I found myself loving bags of all varieties. Sometimes, I just get the urge to put on some pink leather armor, and prance around while I fill up my little golden bags of holding with as many pretty flowers as I can find. The trouble is, e...

i thought this was for a mo
 
i think is more accurate since the proposition is declined... ?
 
@TùxCräftîñg no, it wasn't
 
2
A: Sandbox on Puzzling?

Victor StafusaI think that it won't work. The reason is because most puzzles here have a single solution. In PPCG almost all of them have multiple possible solutions. If you sandbox questions here, people could figure out the solutions before the puzzle is posted, and quickly post the answer, taking an unfai...

 
12:26 PM
the sandbox eventually was made
that answer is out of date
 
@βετѧΛєҫαγ @Doorknob
he's here
 
@EᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏIʀᴋ I don't think he's a mod on Puzzling any more
 
Turns out that since it is so old, there's no point in marking it
 
1:01 PM
@Lynn the original clobbers tabs everywhere also /shrug
 
1:11 PM
slurp chomp comb
 
@Dennis Personally I don't agree with your stance; it's quite a feat to outgolf you and/or Jelly as you're generally seen with the lowest byte counts. The water gets a little clouded by languages created to excel at certain tasks but even when you use Pyth you're able to outgolf a lot of languages. It's really only ever a testament to how good you are at this stuff.
 
lol, received my first actual stack overflow error message in PowerShell
 
@TimmyD lol
 
@primo Yeah, that's not great either :< I asked the OP about it, since everyone seemed to be doing s/\t/ /g:
Will tabs only occur at the start of lines (i.e. as indentation)? Can lines have mixed indentation (tabs + spaces)? — Lynn 11 hours ago
 
1:24 PM
@EᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏIʀᴋ Apparently, Invoke-Expression doesn't like a roughly 50,000 character string being fed to it for parsing
 
... okay then
 
0
A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

βετѧ ΛєҫαγHALo, World! code-golf speech-synthesis hello-world Challenge Write a program which, when run outputs the sentence "Hello, World!" to the computer's speakers. Pronunciation The words hello and world are pronounced in the following way (using the International Phonetic Alphabet: Hello: /h...

 
@NewSandboxedPosts Possible solution: bash + eSpeak: espeak "Hello, World!".
 
Contractions in English are simple - they're just two words smashed together to produce a shorter, easier to pronounce word. But, there are rules on their placement in a sentence -- it is one of the quirks we've.
 
"we've" ugh
 
1:36 PM
@TimmyD I thought the only rule was before have it before a verb or something
 
@Fatalize To be fair, TimmyD's example is pretty contrived and basically never happens. :P
 
If you tried to say that out loud, I'd hear "quirks weave", which sounds like a new hairdo.
 
@El'endiaStarman And that's precisely my point. There are informal rules for contraction placement people don't even realize they have. I'm serious in this, I'm.
Yay, English!
 
"Ya'll" can go at the end of a sentence though. Hey, ya'll! It's 'bout that time, ya'll.
 
@TimmyD ...Sam I Am would read pretty differently if you s/I [Aa]m/I'm :P
 
1:39 PM
@TimmyD I cringed. Thanks :\
 
> ya'll
 
@El'endiaStarman I do not like green eggs and ham. I do not like them, Sam I'm.
 
@Rainbolt I pretty much think of "ya'll" as basically it's own word.
 
@TimmyD pls no more
 
62
Q: How is y’all’dn’t’ve pronounced

AdámAccording to Wikipedia, y’all’dn’t’ve is a valid contraction. I am having difficulty pronouncing the L-D-N-T-V consonant cluster, especially since there is no vowel at the end (silent E). Y’all’dn’t’ve any advice or audio samples would you?

 
1:41 PM
Oh wow. I spell ya'll wrong lol
 
You can go through d, n, and t without hardly moving the tongue, so it's not that bad.
 
@Fatalize English. Where we like contractions so much we're so lazy, we put contractions inside our contractions.
 
> it'd'n't've
 
y'all'dnt've seen any wild golfers around would ya
 
So is y'all basically you but obligatory plural?
 
1:45 PM
Right.
 
It's "you all"
 
Y'all didn't find something better than this to replace thou & you?
(Does it sound uneducated to use y'all?)
 
Worth noting though that you mostly only hear "y'all" in the South. Where "South" is defined as "what were formerly the Confederate states". :P
 
@Fatalize Yes, even in Texas believe it or not.
 
I would usually say "all of you" or"you lot."
 
1:47 PM
"You lot" sounds like British English to me
 
In some dialects, "y'all" is indefinite and "all y'all" is inclusive.
 
^ what
 
Given that it is short for "you all" I cannot see how it could ever be used as an indefinite pronoun
 
Me neither, I think all y'all is just redundant.
 
^^ I don't think people who came up with that had a Ph.D. in English grammar
 
1:50 PM
Depending upon context, "y'all" could be singular. theweek.com/articles/443859/yall-used-refer-single-person
 
You guys are surprised that words and phrases which started out as slang don't fit within formal English? :P
 
> the Loch Ness Monster of dialect study
 
Actually, I'm not sure if "y'all" started out as slang, or if they were used for a long time within the African-American community.
 
@TimmyD Did you actually read the article?
 
@El'endiaStarman Y'all are surprised… FTFY
 
1:52 PM
It seems to say the opposite of the point you were trying to make
 
> They have been hearing singular "y'all" all along. They just didn't realize it was not part of Southern English, but a different dialect, Exaggerated Southern English. The very fact of their not being Southern is what brings the singular "y'all" into existence.
 
(We should rename this chatroom Linguistics discussions)
 
@TimmyD That's describing what someone unfamiliar with the dialect hears, not how it was spoken.
As the son of a rancher, I must defend this point until I die
 
That's true, which is why I said "depending upon context" and "in some dialects"
 
Okay I concede
 
1:57 PM
Y'all is not indefinite. It's just, like, 90% plural.
 
Did you mean "Y'all are not indefinite"?
 
I'm very definite.
@Fatalize I think that's just what happens when there's such a wide variety of countries and languages represented as we've here.
 
Clearly it's in a superposition of singular and plural
 
@TimmyD we've
that was on purpose wasn't it
 
@quartata Schrödinger's You
 
2:00 PM
I mean, it makes total sense.
 
Wow, Adnan's profile got a little blood on it
 
@Fatalize Of course it wasn't on purpose. Pay no attention to the little pencil mark next to the message that says that I purposefully edited it.
 
Is there really that much variety in languages here though?
 
English, French, German, Russian, Portuguese, Spanish, (Mandarin? Cantonese?) just off the top of my head.
 
Portuguese? Who?
 
2:02 PM
dennis
 
Possibly a little Welsh
 
Mandarin well there was LeakyNun…
 
@TimmyD Dutch
 
@EᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏIʀᴋ Doesn't Dennis live in Paraguay?
 
@Fatalize He speaks Cantonese
 
2:03 PM
@Fatalize yeah, but iirc he speaks portguese
 
(leaky that is)
 
Yeah but Portuguese
 
And as far as I'm aware Dennis's native tongue is German and he does not speak Portuguese
 
@Lynn a clever-ish 41 without replacing inner tabs:
s;^(\t| {4})+;/@{[map$"='**',$&=~/$+/g]}/;
 
So 2 of our 4 mods are german
 
there are no germans here
all lies
 
Doorknob's native tongue is lojban
6
 
Wait, not Klingon?
 
Alex A. is American (at least I think that's what the A stands for)
 
2:08 PM
I thought it stood for Alex A.
2
 
yeah, I think the "A" is recursive
 
Same here.
You know, a generation of kids that grew up in a household that only spoke Lojban would be cool
I wonder how it would affect their critical thinking and reasoning
 
It already didn't work well for Esperanto, I can't see how that would possibly work for Lojban
@quartata They would adapt the language rather than adapt how they think, I'd say
 
That's because Esperanto is shit
 
At least it's not as cumbersome as Lojban
 
2:12 PM
First time I come in here and no one is talking about programming
 
@Matt Hi
 
its common :)
@Fatalize the language we speak definitely affects our thinking
 
I don't know any other language where happiness can be expressed in a grammatically valid sentence in 3 bytes
 
Other than what?
 
2:14 PM
What is lojban
 
@NathanMerrill But no one thinks like a computer, thus no one will comply to Lojban in everyday speech
 
@quartata English, 3 bytes -- Hi!
 
I'm not saying they won't modify the language
but they definitely would think more "like a computer"
Nicaraguan Sign Language (ISN; Spanish: Idioma de Señas de Nicaragua) is a sign language largely spontaneously developed by deaf children in a number of schools in western Nicaragua in the 1970s and 1980s. It is of particular interest to the linguists who study it, because it offers a unique opportunity to study what they believe to be the birth of a new language. == History == Before the 1970s, there was no deaf community in Nicaragua. Deaf people were largely isolated from each other and mostly used simple home sign systems and gesture ('mímicas') to communicate with their families and friends...
They were able to study NSL develop as a language
 
Is there an ethical way of testing this?
 
Wut iz lojban
 
2:15 PM
and as the language increased in power, the people were able to think more critically
 
@Matt Welcome! It's a bit of a mixed bag in here, sometimes site-related, sometimes interesting chatter. Seems like you came in during the latter.
 
^ you forgot sometimes dank memes
 
> sometimes
 
like, the first generation only had a single word for thinking ("thinking"). Future generations added additional verbs like "pondering" and the like. When put under IQ tests the children outperformed the adults
 
@Fatalize I'd like to think that's more the exception and less the norm :)
 
2:18 PM
@Sp3000 Definitely the case the last few days I think
 
@Sp3000 Certainly seems that way.... I have to scroll way up to see people talking shop. Not that talking about language is wrong or anything. Just surprised is all.
 
Languages/linguistics is actually a very popular topic around here
 
I suppose that this would actually be an easy topic to transition into here.
 
(How) can i search for a specific language in a 10-page question?
 
@quartata ☺ is three bytes in UTF-8
7
 
2:22 PM
@ReleasingHeliumNuclei word inquestion:####
 
@ReleasingHeliumNuclei Maybe there is a leaderboard
 
@TimmyD thx
@Adnan there isn't
 
oh
 
@ReleasingHeliumNuclei e.g. brainfuck inquestion:59347
 
Now who's spamming stars again?
4
 
2:23 PM
@Sp3000 i got it thx
 
Oh, beaten to the punch :P
 
@zyabin101 Not exclusive to any language in particular though. If you saw that in a sentence written in Russian you wouldn't bat an eye. It's a concept not so much a grammatical construct
 
@Sp3000 could you clear some of the pointless stars?
 
Hm... can room owners unstar? Can't seem to tell
 
no
but mods can clear
and tricho is a mod
 
2:26 PM
ROs can clear.
 
Wrong, room owners can clear stars
On the starboard, not the message
 
Hit the drop down where flags and stuff go, you'll see it
 
Woah. The starboard is on the right side (starboard) of the chat page.
 
bwahahaha
 
You mean...you didn't know??
 
2:28 PM
It just hit me
:D
 
Oh, I was trying from the message. Got it.
 
Yeah, it took me a while to figure that out too
I suppose these stars weren't that bad. Star spamming has been much worse before
 
Yeah... I was surprised that was considered "spam"
 
Well, I'm just going to give the benefit of the doubt that someone was scrolling on mobile and whacked something :P
 
It was me so I could look at it again later.
Since I apparently have a job I am supposed to do as well
 
2:34 PM
Ah - if you want to reference something for later you can probably try to get the permalink for the message, but that might be a little trickier on mobile (or maybe not, can't remember)
 
@Matt Oh. I'm sorry for assuming the worst. We've had some pretty bad star spam in the past so I just immediately jumped there.
 
2
Q: The world is like a Mirror: smile and it'll smile back

Kevin CruijssenInput: A string only containing the following characters: abcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyzABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZ0123456789.?! and two special characters (_ and |) Output: Mirror the text based on the position(s) of the _ and |. _ mirrors horizontally and | mirrors vertically. Mirroring process ...

 
@Sp3000 if you tap the message, you get a little popup with three options. 1) star 2) reply and 3) permalink.
(I'm on mobile right now)
 
Ah k (and probably flag too, I'm assuming)
 
Oh, yeah, that too. But only spam/offensive, not mod flags
@Matt also, that's not the greatest strategy. Stuff around here doesn't tend to stay on the starboard for very long. :P
 
2:39 PM
The board no... but it would be here forever... chat.stackexchange.com/rooms/info/240/the-nineteenth-byte/…
 
(Cause other stuff gets a ton of stars not cause it's cleared or anything like that)
 
Well more like that's not what the starboard is for, because starboards are global rather than tied to per user
 
@Sp3000 Sorry Sp, I'm becoming you... ;(
 
Personally I just bookmark permalinks to posts I'm interested in, not sure if that's the best workflow option
 
Wow. My Kenny message got 20 stars. O_o
New record!
 
2:41 PM
@zyabin101 Really now?
 
hai
 
0
A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

Martin EnderMirror, Mirror, in the Code code-golf (I have absolutely no clue what other tags to add...) Two-dimensional programming languages often have mirror commands like / and \ to redirect the instruction pointer on the grid: >>>>\ v v <<<</ In this challenge, you're given an incoming direc...

 

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