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10:00 PM
@Adnan But that's not necessarily abuse? I've seen people asking Dennis to "eleven" something. Anyway, that more or clarifies it for me, thanks!
 
@NathanMerrill unfortunately she doesn't seem to make any videos anymore (that is where I got the pun from)
 
@LuisMendo yeah, they're joking.
 
@ColdGolf I'd go for it
 
@ColdGolf There's a big difference between a language that accomplishes one task in 0 bytes, and a family of languages designed to accomplish all tasks in 0 bytes. The former is allowed, the latter isn't.
 
@LuisMendo Nah, not necessarily abuse :)
 
10:00 PM
@Dennis We're not talking about MGS anymore. Scroll up.
 
@DJMcMayhem I kinda knew I wasn't going to get a serious answer... :-)
 
@ColdGolf We already have a consensus on that, and the answer is no.
 
@flawr so, as long as I don't have a gun, I can use my knees on the steering wheel? got it :)
 
@Dennis Okay.
 
@trichoplax hopefully :)
 
10:02 PM
@NathanMerrill oh hey
 
@trichoplax wait, you don't think people should drive cars?
 
@flawr that would be really impressive in a manual
 
@ColdGolf I think you already mentioned the meta post where this is answered. If your code cannot be run, then the language is not eligible to compete
2
 
@DJMcMayhem you mean a pedal
 
@ConorO'Brien In a couple of decades, they may not need to.
 
10:03 PM
@Dennis and the alternative being?
 
@trichoplax My question was slightly different that this, but I agree with your point.
 
@ConorO'Brien Realistically, self-driving cars. Hopefully, transporter beams.
 
@ConorO'Brien I think it's only legal because we don't yet have the automation fine tuned. Once we do, the huge number of deaths resulting from letting humans drive can be avoided, and I can't see many countries keeping human drivers legal for more than the next few decades
 
oic. a nice compromise would be the musk tube
 
@Dennis Self driving cars can be dangerous.
Indeed.
 
10:05 PM
that metro thing
 
@ConorO'Brien googled musk tube, was not disappointed
 
@ConorO'Brien Driverless trains are self driving vehicles in a restricted, controlled environment, which is different.
 
On self-driving cars: Why not DIY?
 
@ColdGolf Probably less than drunk drivers
 
Wow formatting is not what I expected it to be
 
10:06 PM
@flawr yeah, it's so cool :D
 
@Fatalize Maybe :P
 
@ThreeFx You have a space between ( and the URL.
Chat doesn't like that.
 
@Fatalize Probably less drunk drivers
 
Wow like 2 billion spaces in there... Thanks @Dennis.
 
@flawr A decrease in the number of overall drivers is not a proper solution.
 
10:08 PM
@Dennis The former seem to be around the corner, if we believe the news. As for transporter beams, I recently saw this on Twitter and found it amusing
 
@ThreeFx The DIY self driving car concept faces the problem of automotive standard acceptance.
 
I'm not suggesting we should switch to driverless cars now, but I think it will only be a few decades max before they are sophisticated enough to be far safer than even good human drivers, let alone the average human driver
 
@LuisMendo There's an "image not found" error.
 
@LuisMendo hahahaha
 
@ColdGolf Really? It works for me
 
10:09 PM
@ColdGolf Yes I guess you'd need a DIY road network to go with it...
 
@trichoplax Yeah :D
 
I'm pretty sure they're already safer than the average driver.
 
You would also need to adapt the roads to simplify the cars' work, and there are a lot of law issues
so I wouldn't say it's that close
 
@Fatalize Law issues are not as big of an issue as the technology itself, which needs to evolve.
 
@ColdGolf Seeing as beaming is still a bit far, I guess automobile transport is going to stick around at least a bit, especially with all the investments (Tesla, ...) going on
 
10:10 PM
@ColdGolf law issues are a big issue, because they involve people's lives
 
@Fatalize set a person's life's worth to $10, problem fixed
 
@Fatalize The self driving car technologies themselves involve risk. The law is just an added risk, that the cars may not be allowed on a standard road.
 
I agree with Fatalize, many people are not going to be happy with the behaviour of self driving cars, which brings us back to the trolley problem.
 
If it gets me there in reasonable time, I'll be happy. Having to drive every day is a chore I'd love to be rid of.
 
@flawr Kappa (actually, it's like 6 million or so, isn't it?)
 
10:12 PM
@ThreeFx The trolley problem seems a bit paradoxical.
 
@Geobits trains ftw
 
@ColdGolf But it's exactly what you need to answer for yourself to find out how you want your car to behave.
 
@flawr Oh I agree for many places. The infrastructure and geography in the US isn't as suitable for trains as many places.
 
@ThreeFx I do not agree with the premise of the trolley problem.
 
@Geobits At least here, that's definitely true.
 
10:14 PM
@Geobits and politics/culture I guess?
 
@flawr Some of that, too, but we're very sprawly here, and trains are better suited (imo) for denser areas.
 
@flawr Trains are sooo inefficient. I'll demonstrate:
 
@Geobits They can also be a good option for longer distances, e.g. for connecting cities.
 
@ThreeFx Can you please latex format this?
 
10:16 PM
@ThreeFx That doesn't make any kind of sense
 
I want to see more intercal golfers
 
@flawr Right. That too. But the sprawly suburbs areas just don't work as well.
 
@ThreeFx That probably heavily depends on the area. Also depends on what efficientcy you are talking about. Consider e.g. energy efficientcy.
@Geobits It probably really depends on many factors. I think e.g. berlin has a very nice train network, that also works for the suburbs.
 
Sure, you win the efficiency battle (and I'm a big fan of trains, don't get me wrong) but I need an hour to reach the nearest city while it's like 10 minutes by car. I feel like I'm stranded in a rural village.
 
@ThreeFxPlease factor all relevant factors, not just the total time to reach the destination, but also total cost of the journey, etc.
In that case, aren't trains cheaper than cars?
At least in the short term.
 
10:18 PM
@ThreeFx That again probably heavily depends on where you are, e.g. in switzerland that isn't always the case.
 
As long as you're in a city already (e.g.. Frankfurt or so) public transportation is wonderful
@flawr Oh? I felt it was a long way to Geneva. Granted it was a Regio
 
@ThreeFx From where to where?=)
 
I think Basel to Geneva (and +30 minutes to CERN). Bout 2 hours passing the beautiful lake.
 
@ThreeFx The core of your argument seems a bit subjective.
 
@ThreeFx Keep in mind that you don't have to drive. (ps: do you live in zürich?)
 
10:20 PM
@ColdGolf I wasn't 100% serious ;) But I always feel like owning a car would save me about 1 hr of time per day
@flawr I'm going to! Looking forward to start at ETH this fall :) (just got back from my apartment)
 
@ThreeFx That's not a quantitative thing.
 
Are you in Zurich too?
 
@ThreeFx What subject?
 
@flawr Computer science
 
Cool=)
 
10:22 PM
Är jag i Zürich? Kanske, kanske inte.
 
Basel?
 
Funny how you guys have written "Zurich" in three different ways in just a bunch of messages
 
@LuisMendo The correct way is "Zürich"
 
Three?
Actually you may write it as "Zurich" in English (it's the same for "Munich")
 
Nah.
That's wrong.
 
10:24 PM
@ThreeFx With umlaut, without, all lowercase
 
Ah, I am too used to PASCAL to notice cases
 
@ThreeFx IS PASCAL ALLCAPS?
 
It's completely case insensitive
But our comp. sci. teacher always wanted neat ALL CAPS for KEYWORDS
My code looks so bad because cases are all mixed up XD
 
@ThreeFx DROP TABLE Students.
@ThreeFx So did you already get a degree, or did you have CS classes in school?
 
"Hello? Yes your son flawr" DROP TABLE STUDENTS; --" caused some problems today." "Database?" "No he didn't mess with the system, he just beat up three kids at lunchtime"
 
10:27 PM
@ThreeFx shhh don't tell those guys here
 
@flawr I had is as my Leistungskurs in school (do you know that concept?) and always loved programming in my spare time. But no degree, just competitions I took part in.
 
@ThreeFx Ah cool, yes I did something similar. But CS did not have enough math for my test.
 
s/test/taste?
Anyway all I hear of is that math is a big part of CS...
 
@ThreeFx taste, yep=)
 
10:32 PM
@Syxer So you ...broke it?
 
Sure, but unfortunately not all kinds of maths are used that much in CS.
 
@ThreeFx neh. Sparring with it in my hopeless attempts to make it work for me
 
@flawr I'll see when I get there :D
 
are gif links banned now? :c okayy
 
@flawr Of course!
 
10:34 PM
@ThreeFx It is certainly never a bad idea to spend time with both=)
 
@Syxer See the last section of the chatiquette
 
@Syxer Not banned, but it's a rather large GIF (7.5M) and it was slowing down my connection and nibbling away at my capped data plan.
 
@Dennis D: okie
@trichoplax Weird, is that new?
 
@El'endiaStarman How about deaf people without CI who have really bad hearing?
 
I hadn't seen it before.
That section of chatiquette, that, is. :P
 
10:36 PM
@flawr They can drive too. I imagine the instruction is a little different/harder, but the majority of driving is visual, so it's not that big of a deal for deaf people to drive.
Now, the problem comes in when they like to talk...
What I've heard is that typically when the driver is talking with the passenger through sign language, whoever is speaking at the moment is the one watching the road.
 
@Syxer It's always been a good idea, for the reasons Dennis gave. I don't know how long it's been in the chatiquette
 
@El'endiaStarman I've also heard about communication problems with the police recently...
 
kk won't do it again. :)
 
@flawr That's probably been going on for a while... :P
 
It's not a blanket ban - sometimes a GIF is a relevant part of a conversation, but even then linking to it rather than oneboxing is best if it's not small
(gives people the choice)
 
10:38 PM
Yeah most of my gifs aren't super on-topic. :P
 
@El'endiaStarman Oh, I was talking about this.
 
Also: A friend of mine did find a surprising correlation between diameter and radius of circles. (And didn't get what he was doign.)
 
@flawr: d ^ 2 / 4 = A?
 
10:53 PM
@ThreeFx huh?
 
More like D = floor(exp(1))r
 
@flawr Oh shit, radius != area lol
I meant `d = r / 2` :D
 
@El'endiaStarman this smells like teen spirit a new challenge idea=)
 
@ThreeFx You may be looking at your circle inside out :P
 
10:57 PM
You know it's math when you know the words but not the meanings.
 
@ThreeFx Haha, that is soo true=)
I need to print this...
 
@ThreeFx Your avatar is purple in the avatar bar for me now - is that new?
 
@trichoplax It's purple for me too, but the small one and the one left of the message window is red still. Did it change for you?
 
@ThreeFx Ctrl+F5?
 
Tried already
Nothing works, neither today nor a few days back
@flawr I'd take a shirt or two off your hands if you don't mind.
 
11:01 PM
@ThreeFx Oh I just thought as a banner on our department building=)
 
Huh, weird. Indeed, it's red in your chat profile, but purple on your parent site.
 
@El'endiaStarman I'm mysterious :D
@flawr Well that works too. Kinda reminds me of the reddit story of the kids who lined up in sports so the letters of their shirts spelled profanity.
 
@ThreeFx Do you know group theory?
 
@ColdGolf Only the most basic stuff sadly.
 
Quick question: RO's can unstar messages, right?
 
11:07 PM
By unstar you mean remove from the starboard?
 
If they can I have no idea how
 
Huh I didn't know
Idk
 
@Geobits Mouse over a message on the star board, click the little black triangle, and see if the option "clear stars" is present.
 
@ThreeFx The one I noticed just now is the purple one in the "avatar bar" that shows everyone's avatars together at the top right of the window
 
11:08 PM
@RohanJhunjhunwala Could you help me test it? Star something in this room
 
@DJMcMayhem done!
 
@trichoplax It was purple since I can remember. I don't think my pics have changed, they are just wrong sometimes
 
@El'endiaStarman Oh, I can't right now. Mobile chat sucks
 
I'm sure El'endia already linked this in here but it's fascinating!
 
@HelkaHomba I have not, in fact.
 
11:12 PM
I need help on a python thing please
 
@El'endiaStarman It's present for me in my room
 
I don't watch Computerphile videos; they're aggravating somehow. Most likely in that the accents of everyone makes them really hard for me to understand. What's especially weird is that the ones who talk on numberphile don't have that problem.
I kid. What's up?
 
say I have a function like def sort(item,index):return item[index], and then I want to use it to sort something
 
Are any maths geeks here? I need help.
 
@ColdGolf "Math" is kinda general...
 
11:14 PM
usually, I would do sorted(list, key=sort), but that will not like the lack of enough positional arguments
 
@ThreeFx Okay, group theory geeks.
I need one ASAP.
 
@ColdGolf I like math, but I'm bad at the harder stuff. What's the question?
 
@ColdGolf I'm a geek who likes maths - is that close enough?
Not much knowledge though...
 
Is @flawr our math expert?
 
@trichoplax I guess.
 
11:15 PM
@DestructibleWatermelon sorted(list, key=lambda x,y: ...)
 
@El'endiaStarman well, that's not entirely what I wanted
 
@ThreeFx did those competitions involve the BWInf? :)
 
@DestructibleWatermelon I guess I'm not sure I understand the question.
 
@ThreeFx We have a few people that count as one I think :)
 
@ThreeFx There actually are a lot of math experts here
 
11:16 PM
@MartinEnder It may have been :) Why are you asking?
 
so, say I had a list of strings, I wanted to sort
 
K
 
list_of_strings.sort(key=sort(<thing that will refer to each item when it is sorted>, 3))
 
@ThreeFx just curious because I took part a few years ago. how'd that go for you?
 
@MartinEnder Actually, very well. I got first prize. And for you?
 
11:18 PM
holy crap, I'm impressed :D
I got to the final round, but didn't do all that well there
 
@trichoplax I'm giving a lecture tommorow. Need help ASAP.

Is there a non-trivial finite order automorphism $$\varphi$$ of $$\Gamma_g$$ such that $$\rho \circ \varphi = \rho$$?

Sorry for the multiple lines, that's a ChatJax rendering error it seems.
 
@DestructibleWatermelon I get that you're trying to sort the list using a custom key function, but beyond that I'm lost. What is your key function trying to do?
 
Is Wolfgang Pohl still organising it?
 
@MartinEnder Thanks. I was too :D That in itself is worthy of attention. I just got plain lucky with the right interviewers.
 
doesn't matter, I think I'm on the right track anyway
 
11:19 PM
Yep, he is, at least AFAIK
Didn't follow the recent one
 
ok, doesn't seem like I'm on the right track anymore
 
@trichoplax Pls.
 
@ColdGolf I think you probably need to give a bit more context for people to be able to help, eg you haven't defined $$\Gamma_g$$
 
what I want to do is sort a list with a function that takes two positional arguments, and use the value of the item as one argument, and something else as the other argument
 
11:22 PM
I'm trying to find the year you participated in to see we know the same people :D
 
:I
 
@ColdGolf We don't have mathjax in our chat
 
 
@DestructibleWatermelon Ok, what's the something else?
 
let's say a number
 
11:24 PM
Is it constant, or does it depend on the value of the item somehow?
 
@ColdGolf Asking is OK, but "Need help ASAP" followed up by "Pls" isn't likely to get you quicker answers, and may annoy people
 
0
Q: Multiple assignment in Lua

PhrogzIs there any better way to golf this (other than removing newlines/indentation)? function(a,b,...) local c=s({v=b},a) local d=ll for i,v in ipairs{...} do d=d:push(v) end return c end I'm particularly bothered by the double local usage, but as Lua does not have multiple assignment, and...

 
@DLosc I'm really just looking to see if there is some sort of keyword that allows access to the item being sorted. but I don't think there is
 
In case anyone is wondering why I got that notification, here is the question... in question.. You'll see why it's related at the bottom of the question.
 
@trichoplax Fine I'll just cancel the lecture
 
11:27 PM
@ColdGolf ...don't think that was his point.
 
@Syxer I'm not going to teach students something I don't know anyways.
So I might as well take the day off.
 
No need to get annoyed, asking for a seasoned group theorist at 1:30 European Time is kind of difficult I think. (of course, in the U.S. it's still reasonably early)
 
@ColdGolf Consult Mathematics.
 
@ThreeFx universal European time is a thing?
 
@ColdGolf Well I usually dor for GMT + 1 + DST (CEST) since that's where many Europeans live.
 
11:29 PM
@ColdGolf I didn't say don't ask. I only pointed out the parts that aren't helping you get answers, and may put people off from helping you. You seem to be jumping at any chance to criticise people. I don't know if it's something you're aware of - glance back at what you've written if not.
 
"GMT + 1 + DST" *twitch*
 
@ColdGolf As I said, you didn't quite provide enough context for people to be able to help
 
@Sp3000 How?
 
I never said I was good at times :D I just learned that's called CEST or CET
 
@ThreeFx CEST French time?
 
11:31 PM
@ThreeFx I think you mean UTC+2, right?
Oh wait that's the same thing....
 
CEST is UTC+2
 
@ColdGolf You haven't defined $$\Gamma_g$$ and $$\rho$$
 
@Sp3000 Whoever understands the question would know them, no?
 
@trichoplax Since everyone else ignored it, I just thought I'd let you know that I smiled at your joke. ;)
 
Yay!
 
11:32 PM
^^
 
I'm a Latin scrub and a lost cause for learning languages, sorry ;)
 
I must've missed the joke..
 
CEST = c'est(?)
 
C'est
 
C'est la vie.
 
11:34 PM
@ThreeFx Yes that was my bad joke :)
 
@trichoplax C'est magnifique!
 
is there any function equivalent to str.replace(substring,'')
 
@trichoplax Judging by some of the jokes I failed to pull off, it's fine :)
 
If I knew more French than "c'est" I could have made it read better...
 
@ColdGolf Not really - Greek symbols can have half a dozen meanings in maths and even if there's standard notations, like g meaning group element, I can't tell if you mean a general group element or an element of a specific group. It's like saying "what is f(0)?" without saying what f is.
 
11:35 PM
@DLosc Merci!!
 
@Sp3000 I guess so.
@trichoplax Merci has multiple meanings.
 
@ColdGolf For some reason, I feel like you're trying to pass yourself off as more knowledgeable than you really are. There are certainly a bunch of people in here who know at least some group theory, but none of them really understand your question. The onus is on you, not them, to clarify the question so they can help.
 
@ColdGolf Best I stop trying to pretend to know French then :)
 
oml
 
Anyone recognizes this?:
 
11:37 PM
@DestructibleWatermelon I.e., deleting a given substring? AFAIK that's the best way to do it. You could also use regex if you want to overengineer the problem. :P
 
@Adnan Is that a snake?
 
I just want it shorter ;_;
 
@Adnan flawr? Is that you?
 
@ColdGolf I suggest you remove this comment.
 
@ColdGolf Yes, but it's a specific snake
 
11:37 PM
@Adnan Looks like flawr to me.
 
@Adnan Is that using the deep thought?
 
@Adnan flawr?
 
What image editing algorithm did you use?
 
@trichoplax Hahaha, correct :)
@Syxer I used multiple
 
@ThreeFx Deep dream
 
11:38 PM
You can go deeper in levels
 
Yeah deep dream, thanks :D
 
This one is level 0 (3/5)
 
@Adnan No idea what this means.
 
Level of deepness of the dream
 
Whoa what is this deepness
 
11:39 PM
@ColdGolf please note that deleting an offensive message won't stop you getting kicked or suspended. It's best to think before you post, and avoid posting if you're uncertain whether something will be rude
 
I never did drugs but that flawr image is what I imagine tripping to be
 
The deeper, the more trippy it gets
 
ah, I had an idea for my problem
 
Trippify images?
 
wait, no i didn't
 
11:41 PM
@trichoplax I second this, but I was the one who suggested its deletion
 
Trippify is what it would be called if Spotify bought it
 
@ThreeFx Potify?
:P
 
@Syxer I'm certainly not saying it shouldn't have been deleted - your advice was good. I'm just saying it isn't enough, and shouldn't be relied upon. I commend your comment.
 
@DJMcMayhem Yeah, that's better :)
Haha commen..d the commen..t... Nvm I'll just dig my hole.
 
Oh hey, a question. Let's see how many incorrect close votes it gets. Anyone wanna bet on the under/over?
 
11:43 PM
2 tops
 
I was gonna say that... ;_;
I'll take under
 
@ThreeFx Yeah I realised that looked like a weird pun straight after I typed it, but I didn't think it worth rewording... :)
 
Au contraire, I like it :D (to continue bragging with nonexistent French knowledge ^^)
 
@DestructibleWatermelon the key argument is a function that gets the current item so you can do what you want with it. It returns the sorting "key", i.e. the order you want things sorted in.
 
@ThreeFx Je suis un petit chien!
 
11:46 PM
@ThreeFx Your French is fine, honestly.
 
@DestructibleWatermelon try:
 
These are the only small tidbits I know, actually. But I'm honored :)
 
def f(x):
	print('x =',x)
	return -x
x = [1, 2, 3]
x.sort(key=f) #prints x = 1\nx = 2\nx=3
print(x) #prints [3, 2, 1]
 
@HelkaHomba you've misunderstood my question
but my question wasn't well phrased
also, could you help me with the format function?
I'm having issues
 
maybe
 
11:48 PM
wait, I figured it out?
 
@LuisMendo srorry I never got to answer the question
 
Hello ladies and gentlemen.
 
@R.Kap Hola amigo!
 
Hello!
 
Man...It's been quite a while since I was last here in the Nineteenth Byte.
 
11:52 PM
@LuisMendo sorry I pinged the wrong person with the last ping
@LeakyNun sorry I never got around to tackling your challenge :(
 
Okay, how about this one:
 
@R.Kap you came at the right time....
 
 
Uhhh... I think that's yours
 
@Adnan Another snake?
 
11:53 PM
Or maybe el'endia
 
I second that (it's adnan)
 
Can't tell
 
Who thought up the name "Nineteenth Byte" anyways? It's pretty nice.
 
@R.Kap dmckee
 
No, it's not another snake
 
11:53 PM
@MartinEnder You are now not the only one with 200+ silvers :D (Badge farming tip: one can easily get 4 badges per decent question)
 
It's also not me haha
 
Hmm
 
@Adnan Okay is this a script?
 
@R.Kap It's a wordplay on the Nineteenth Hole from golf.
 
It's really hard to tell. I thought at first it might be Luis but the pattern isn't angled right
 
Ooh, isaacg?
 
It's not quartata is it?
 
@ThreeFx Ah, interesting.
 
@ThreeFx And I was wondering the whole time....
 
how to use %formatting to get binary?
 
11:54 PM
@quartata It actually is Luis
 
@HelkaHomba wow
 
@Adnan I never would have gotten that
 
@Adnan Huh. That was my first instinct but it's very warped if it is
 
And the string is 19 bytes long...
 
You can kind of tell from the top center pattern: it looks like the helmet
 
11:55 PM
Yeah, there is also an option to zoom in and turn right
 
@HelkaHomba congrats!
 
The angle threw me off
 
Yeah, me too.
It's obviously been rotated a bit
 
Sadly, it takes about 5 minutes to generate a deep one :p
 
SILOS CMC write either an interpreter in SILOS for brainf*** or compile bf into SILOS (bonus points for writing a SILOS compiler to do it)
 
11:56 PM
@trichoplax And it's an anagram of "Teeth. Ninth Byte. Nee."
 
I'm interested to see what isaac's looks like
 
@ColdGolf I don't think that was part of the decision though ;)
 
Anyways, I have an interesting challenge proposal: Given an input of a Mathjax image of any polynomial, output that image's polynomial with all like terms combined and all "cancellable" terms removed.
 
@RohanJhunjhunwala Chat Massive Challenge?
 
No one likes my shameless chat mini challenge
 
11:57 PM
@trichoplax I know :D
@RohanJhunjhunwala github.com/matslina/awib
 
@isaacg Congrats on 30k :)
8
 
@Sp3000 eh... its pretty challenging, but Its not as bad as the smbf interpreter in bf...
Or my parse html with regex (and optionally solve the halting problem) question
 
You could say it's not as bad as Tetris in game of life, but that doesn't make it any easier :P
 
@quartata I'll try if I can do multiple at the same time
 
@Sp3000 yes you're right
I would love to see it though...
 
11:59 PM
@trichoplax Interestingly, it's also an anagram of "Hit the net. Byte! En. En."
 
Mini-challenge: Output sleepachu:
|\_/|
|-.-|
 
@HelkaHomba on it
 
D'awh
 
@R.Kap To me that sounds like it should be three challenges, the middle of which might be a dupe (haven't checked though)
 
@HelkaHomba VTC it's just another compression challenge in disguise...
 

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