The Nineteenth Byte

Quill

12:00

Internet Explorer for Mac (also referred to as Internet Explorer for Macintosh, Internet Explorer Macintosh Edition, Internet Explorer:mac or IE:mac) is a discontinued proprietary web browser developed by Microsoft for the Macintosh platform. Initial versions were developed from the same code base as Internet Explorer for Windows. Later versions diverged, particularly with the release of version 5 which included the cutting edge, fault-tolerant and highly standards-compliant Tasman layout engine. As a result of the five-year agreement between Apple and Microsoft in 1997, it was the default browser...

Kenny Lau

12:12

I have an idea: what if I score by the (total) number of bytes... but divided by the number of languages used?

VTCAKAVSMoACE

@KennyLau You'll run into problems with duplicate langs (i.e. BF vs. SAF)

Kenny Lau

Sorry, what is SAF?

VTCAKAVSMoACE

ShadyAsFuck

Kenny Lau

Oh, you made it :D

I won't, because it is an average

Having only SAF will score better than BF + SAF

VTCAKAVSMoACE

Ohoho. I see.

Still doesn't help because of other lang duplicates (Gol><> vs. ><>)

But I can see where you're going.

Kenny Lau

12:16

Sorry, what is Gol><>?

Sp3000

It's... nothing shifty eyes

VTCAKAVSMoACE

Gol><> developed by ^ this guy.

Sp3000

But I think the point is how to rule out double-counting similar languages, especially with all the BF derivs

Basically a problem every polyglot challenge has had til now, really

Kenny Lau

oh, you made it

well, using average?

It doesn't really benefit by using similar languages

oh, I see the problem

then people would just use the language with the smallest byte-count

Sp3000

Well my question is, how many bytes does print(input())#,[.,] count as?

Kenny Lau

12:20

?

well

I still need to make the rules better?

Nathan Merrill

12:58

@AlexA. Sorry. In all seriousness, I really like this video concerning vegetarian/vegan (and is more or less my opinion on the matter)

muddyfish

13:21

Anyone else really like the new look on worldbuilding.SE?

It looks awesome!

mınxomaτ

Really nice.

PhiNotPi

13:34

New Main Posts

1

Q: Generate ASCII TetraVex

TetraVex is a tile-based edge-matching game that was originally coded by Scott Ferguson for the Microsoft Entertainment Pack 3 back in 1990. The game consists of a grid upon which square tiles are placed. The tiles have numbers or letters on each edge, and the goal is to place all tiles in the gr...

PhiNotPi

@mınxomaτ turns out that, when making an approximation, it's better to leave out some of the rotations.

TimmyD

Wow, that was fast, NMP.

Optimizer

WTH happened to the favicon here?

Rainbolt

Ctrl+F5... same PCG favicon as before

Geobits

13:42

It got changed. It's now a blank page, symbolizing the perfectly golfed program.

PhiNotPi

What favicon are you talking about?

muddyfish

My favicon's normal

Geobits

Rainbolt

@Geobits You sound like one of those art fanatics that sees beauty in an ugly painting

Optimizer

@Geobits its the stack overflow favicon for me

Geobits

13:44

@Rainbolt Or goodness in a lowly block of sand :P

@Optimizer Oh, I've seen them jumbled up before. IIRC it happened last time when they changed the sprite sheet up some. There was some post on meta about it.

Optimizer

muddyfish

PhiNotPi

^ what I see

Optimizer

The Ninja?

Nathan Merrill

14:01

I have the normal favicon as well

New Sandboxed Posts

14:24

0

A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

Normal and visual string reversion Write some code that acts as a cat program. That is, to input a string and output it as is. But the normal reversion of your code must output the normal reversion of the input string. And the visual reversion of your code must output the visual reversion of the...

Sparr

14:44

@flawr what number are you referring to as not being prime?

Eᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏ Iʀᴋ

14:58

-1 I think.

Sparr

-1 is not prime, ok

I need some context. I have no idea why he started telling me about something not being prime.

Eᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏ Iʀᴋ

5 hours ago, by Sparr

@flawr what about -1 being not a prime?

Sparr

that's after he already said it

Eᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏ Iʀᴋ

?

5 hours ago, by flawr

@Sparr Your number is not a prime.

that was after.

Sparr

6 hours ago, by flawr

@Sparr -1, not a prime.

that's the first thing he said

Eᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏ Iʀᴋ

15:02

oooh

2147483648

-1 mean "downvote"

2147483648 was the non-prime.

Sparr

err, ok?

Eᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏ Iʀᴋ

@flawr why do you have to be so confuzzling??

and ohai @Cyoce

Sparr

2147483648 1╤P╙

Eᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏ Iʀᴋ

@Sparr >_> just flawr being flawr

Cyoce

@EᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏIʀᴋ um hi?

Eᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏ Iʀᴋ

15:03

hi

Sparr

2147483648 is 1╤P╙ which is 2**(nthprime(10**1))

Eᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏ Iʀᴋ

hey, the mersenne prime under that is though

Kenny Lau

Chat mini-challenge: given a number, print a javascript code that when evaluated, gives that number

However, you can only use !~[]+

Eᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏ Iʀᴋ

pls no jsfuck jr.

Kenny Lau

(please suggest improvements to this challenge while retaining the spirit)

for example, !![] is 1

Eᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏ Iʀᴋ

15:07

@KennyLau are you planning to post this on main?

Kenny Lau

if this receives enough attention

Eᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏ Iʀᴋ

@KennyLau no, it's not.

!![]
true

Sp3000

Needs a +

Eᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏ Iʀᴋ

^

Kenny Lau

@Sp3000 How do you make one in js?

Sp3000

15:08

But there's that Fibonacci JSFuck challenge, although that one's partially Kolmog since there weren't that many numbers

Kenny Lau

maybe you need - as well?

Sp3000

+!![]

Kenny Lau

oh ok

[]()!+ lol

Sp3000

Also define "any number" - integers? Possibly also floats?

Kenny Lau

maybe use a different set to avoid being a duplicate of jsfuck?

positive integers

This is 1 in jsfuck :O [+!+[]]+[]

Eᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏ Iʀᴋ

15:10

+!![] is shorter though.

Kenny Lau

oh, so jsfuck is not optimized

you know, -~![]

but uses extra characters

how would I make this challenge better?

Sp3000

JSFuck is optimised if you want any sort of output

For numbers only, +![] will do

*positive integers

Kenny Lau

I mean

jsfuck.com

I don't get this

Sp3000

Oh that one, there's a few better sites if I remember correctly (too lazy to find them)

Kenny Lau

11 -> [+!+[]]+[+!+[]]

Sp3000

15:11

+"11"

Dennis

@zyabin101 Right, the branches changed. Fixed.

Kenny Lau

how is the character 1 produced?

Eᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏ Iʀᴋ

+!![]

Sp3000

[1]+[1]

Ever tried adding arrays in JS?

Kenny Lau

how does [1]+[1] become "11"??

Eᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏ Iʀᴋ

15:12

because js is dumb

Sp3000

Well... JS.

Eᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏ Iʀᴋ

@KennyLau The infamous:

[1,2]+[3,4]
> "1,23,4"

>_>

Kenny Lau

...

what if I eval it

so I get [1,23,4]

Eᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏ Iʀᴋ

no

Sp3000

Where are you going to get the chars to eval?

Eᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏ Iʀᴋ

15:14

you get 4

>_>

Sp3000

(unless you're allowing ())

Kenny Lau

why do I get 4?

Eᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏ Iʀᴋ

because js is dumb, okay?

Kenny Lau

okay

Eᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏ Iʀᴋ

JS fucks with your sanity all the time, JSfuck is just double that.

Kenny Lau

15:16

how do you generate 2?

Eᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏ Iʀᴋ

The number?

or the string

The number: !![]+!![]

Kenny Lau

how do you generate 100?

Eᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏ Iʀᴋ

idk other than !![]+!![]+.........

Kenny Lau

@Sp3000 Any idea?

Sp3000

Without (), you can do +[[+!![]]+[+[]]+[+[]]]

Kenny Lau

15:17

Also, I don't get how jsfuck calls any function at all

what is ()?

Sp3000

JSFuck is usually +![]()

Kenny Lau

I don't get it

Eᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏ Iʀᴋ

Nobody does.

Sp3000

As in those are the allowed characters in JSFuck

Kenny Lau

but where is the function call?

for example, alert?

Eᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏ Iʀᴋ

15:19

you don't need it because js can add strings to make functions.

Kenny Lau

so, "alert"()?

Eᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏ Iʀᴋ

not exactly

Kenny Lau

Could you please explain?

Sp3000

[]["filter"]["constructor"]("alert('Hello, World!')")()

Eᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏ Iʀᴋ

^

Sp3000

15:20

You do that, except you build up the chars in the strings

One by one

Kenny Lau

really...

alright, how do you make :?

Sp3000

atob, probably (that's how you get the harder ones)

Kenny Lau

I mean, ":" (what does : mean in js?)

how do you make any character at all?

Sp3000

([]+[![]])[+[]]

Guess what that gives

Kenny Lau

  ([]+[![]])[+[]]
= ([]+[true])[+[]]
= ("1")[0]

Sparr

15:26

@Mego brute forcing up to 5 byte programs gives a score of 8469

Kenny Lau

I don't get it

Sparr

slightly better than my other program that is more subtle

Sp3000

@KennyLau Is that guessing or are you trying it in a browser?

Kenny Lau

that's guessing

Sp3000

k, cos ![] is false actually

Kenny Lau

15:29

oh, and then?

Sp3000

And []+[false] is "false" (it wouldn't be "0")

Kenny Lau

("false")[0]

what does () even mean?

Sp3000

That's just to group []+[![]]

Kenny Lau

oh, and then what does the code do?

Sp3000

"false"[0] -> "f"

Kenny Lau

15:31

ohhhhhh

what does +!![]() do?

Eᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏ Iʀᴋ

I gtg, bye!

@KennyLau error

Sp3000

Probably an error

Kenny Lau

oh ok

[]["filter"]["constructor"]("alert('Hello, World!')")()

what does the last () do?

Sp3000

Calls the function

Kenny Lau

how does the thing in front create a function at all...

Sp3000

15:33

[]["filter"]["constructor"] gives Function

Kenny Lau

Could you detail the process?

Sp3000

That's just what it does (since filter is a function, and you're just getting the constructor)

Kenny Lau

what is []["filter"]?

Sp3000

Should probably say, Array.filter is a function

So you're getting the filter function from Array

(or an array)

Kenny Lau

I see

This is incredible

Sp3000

15:36

If you haven't seen how JSFuck works, start by trying to get the letters INadefilnrstuy

Kenny Lau

what does "f"+1 give?

Sp3000

"f1", cos JS

Bálint

@Downgoat I saw you posted a another post, I actually like that blog, I'm learning stuff

Kenny Lau

@Sp3000 I haven't even seen how JS works either

although I do know java (I know they're different)

Sp3000

Well F12 in your browser and start messing with the console

Kenny Lau

15:38

wow... I was trying to find an online interpreter for so long

turns out it was right in my browser

Bálint

Paste this in: document.body.innerHTML=""

Then enter

Kenny Lau

I can read plaintext

@Sp3000 I from Integer?

Bálint

@KennyLau then this:

var _0xf102=["\x69\x6E\x6E\x65\x72\x48\x54\x4D\x4C","\x62\x6F\x64\x79",""];document[‌_0xf102[1]][_0xf102[0]]=_0xf102[2]

(Not harmful, I swear)

Sp3000

You can try and get it from that if you want, I was thinking something else

Kenny Lau

@Bálint I'll trust you for once

SyntaxError: illegal character

Sp3000

15:41

Learn to deobfuscate lightly obfuscated code :P (just pasting the strings in your console would tell you what they are)

Bálint

var _0x4617=["\x69\x6E\x6E\x65\x72\x48\x54\x4D\x4C","\x62\x6F\x64\x79",""];document[‌_0x4617[1]][_0x4617[0]]=_0x4617[2]

Yeah, looks like some characters get changed to unicode escape characters

Kenny Lau

"\x69\x6E\x6E\x65\x72\x48\x54\x4D\x4C"
"innerHTML"
"\x62\x6F\x64\x79"
"body"

@Sp3000 Thanks!

Bálint

@Sp3000 Do you understand how this code works: jsfiddle.net/Lt1eaa1r/2

Sp3000

Maybe if you gave me an hour to deobfuscate it, but not at a glance no

Bálint

This is the deobfuscated code

This is the original: js1k.com/2013-spring/details/1555

Sp3000

15:47

Only halfway though :P code logic's still hard to follow with so many single character variable names

Kenny Lau

ah

@Sp3000 I cheated

it was "Infinity"[0]

Sp3000

Do you know how you get Infinity though?

Kenny Lau

I'm seeing 1e

scientific notation...

Sp3000

Ah k, yeah

Kenny Lau

1e1000

it's good

can you give me a challenge?

(I won't cheat)

Sp3000

15:51

Hmm the rest of the way might be a bit harder without JS knowledge though

Kenny Lau

some easy ones?

Sp3000

I mean, if you can get the letters above that's enough for "filter", and the rest of the letters for "constructor" are in the one tricky place

Kenny Lau

well, then let's not do the "filter" "constructor" thing for the moment?

Sp3000

Maybe not so tricky given what's been posted so far, dunno

But what else would you want to get instead, then?

Kenny Lau

not really anything

just to test my jsfuck knowledge

Sp3000

15:54

Hmm okay

Try getting "." and "-"

Kenny Lau

are they easy enough (for me)?

"1e-1"[1]?

Sp3000

Probably - no need for filter/constructor for those, you can get them similarly to how you get Infinity (although one with a bit more work than the other)

Kenny Lau

how did you evaluate 1e1000 lol

oh

so + is str->int

+[] is int->str

+("1e-1")[1]?

Sp3000

Not really "str -> int" per se, just JS not knowing that + means for strings, and trying to interpret the strings as ints instead

Kenny Lau

am I correct?

Downgoat

15:58

@Bálint thanks, glad you learned something :)

Sp3000

For +("1e-1")[1]? Right track, but not quite there (for one thing, how are you going to get "1e-1" as a string?)

Kenny Lau

well, I sort of cheated for the Infinity one

you know, "true"[3]

Sparr

@flawr were you complaining that 2147483648 isn't prime?

Sp3000

Yeah, but you don't have "-" yet, so you can't just build the string using "-" when that's what you're trying to get

Kenny Lau

oh...

I hope ~ was allowed lol

@Sp3000 Any hint?

Sp3000

16:03

If you're trying for "-", you'll probably want "." first

Kenny Lau

:o

so I already have false and true: aeflrstu

Do I need more to build the "."?

Sp3000

Hint: You don't actually need any letters to build "."

(but "e" makes the code a bit shorter)

Kenny Lau

I don't know how to convert a number to double lol

Sp3000

JS only has one number type

Kenny Lau

which is?

El'endia Starman

16:11

Double.

Sp3000

Doubles, I think?

Kenny Lau

oh... 12e300

= 1.2e+301

Oh, then without the e

"110000000000000000000"

=> 1.1e+??

Sp3000

Just try the number out in the browser - for one thing you need more zeroes

Kenny Lau

sure

then what about the -?

Nathan Merrill

hey, HTML question: I've got an input field that has a value in it, but the HTML has no value attribute

how is this possible?

El'endia Starman

16:13

> 1100000000000000000000
< 1.1e+21

Kenny Lau

oh, 0.0000000000000000000001

Sp3000

... yeah

:P

Kenny Lau

>> 0.0000000000000000000001
<- 1e-22

nice, any more challenge?

El'endia Starman

Implement Tetris.

Sp3000

Not for JSFuck, no. Not that I can think of

Kenny Lau

16:14

alright

El'endia Starman

@NathanMerrill You might want text.

Nathan Merrill

it is type="text"

but doesn't value="whatever" need to be there?

El'endia Starman

You mean after you've typed something in it?

flawr

@Sparr Exactly.

Nathan Merrill

@El'endiaStarman er, another script has, but yes

flawr

16:17

Fun read (the linked link as well as the comments): news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11717010

@EᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏIʀᴋ "confuzzling" :D

Nathan Merrill

hmm, it appears that elements have "properties"

which don't appear in the source

Eᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏ Iʀᴋ

@flawr I just popped in as you sent this. woah

and yeah, "confuzzling".

Martin Büttner

@aditsu \o/

Eᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏ Iʀᴋ

news.utexas.edu/2016/05/16/…

@NathanMerrill .innerText?

Nathan Merrill

nope

aditsu

16:20

@MartinBüttner \:D/

Eᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏ Iʀᴋ

@NathanMerrill no. text.value should be either "" or undefined if you haven't put anything in it.

@NathanMerrill type something in the chatbox (but don't hit enter) and paste document.getElementById("input").value into your console.

Nathan Merrill

well, element.value works

Eᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏ Iʀᴋ

yeah?

Nathan Merrill

right, but its silly that it doesn't appear in the source code

which is what I'm saying

Martin Büttner

@aditsu was this a one-off commit or are you planning on working through a few more tickets? ;)

Eᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏ Iʀᴋ

16:22

oh

that's because that takes way too much wasted time to update with every char.

also:

aditsu

@MartinBüttner I plan to continue in the coming days; I've also been adding docs but nobody seems to care about that :p

Sp3000

@aditsu I care, because now I don't have to do mine :D

(I've been watching the number of blue hyperlinks increase on the operators page for some time now)

aditsu

@Sp3000 haha, heh, huh, … ಠ_ಠ

Eᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏ Iʀᴋ

@aditsu what did you update? cjam?

Sp3000

aditsu added the "o No" operator

aditsu

16:25

@EᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏIʀᴋ yeah

Sparr

@flawr what prompted you to bring up the non-prime-ness of that number?

aditsu

also it's already not a one-off thing; I had 3 commits this year, 2 in the last couple of days

flawr

@Sparr Well it looked like you just randomly posted a numbers. So I randomly pointed out that it is not prime. Nothing serious :D

Kenny Lau

who's up for a jsfuck code-golf challenge

quartata

Average day in Mos Eisley:

in Mos Eisley, 2 hours ago, by Fox-Chan

flips hair dramatically I don't mean to brag but I don't wear helmets while riding my bike like my parents tell me to

Kenny Lau

16:27

codegolf.stackexchange.com/search?q=jsfuck+is%3Aquestion

Martin Büttner

@aditsu oh, I didn't notice the last two

Kenny Lau

because it is certainly not a dup

flawr

@KennyLau More like fuck js.

2

Sparr

@Mego 6 character brute force is prohibitively slow on my laptop

quartata

@Sparr There's probably quite a couple characters you could exclude. You don't need to test all 256^6 possibilities

Is this for the Actually integer golf?

Kenny Lau

16:28

@flawr maybe it'd be a dup of actually int golf?

Eᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏ Iʀᴋ

@aditsu link to the github?

@KennyLau hell no.

quartata

@EᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏIʀᴋ CJam is on SourceForge not Github

Eᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏ Iʀᴋ

@quartata ikr

@quartata okay, found it

Martin Büttner

@quartata I was hoping that was the joke, but apparently not.

Eᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏ Iʀᴋ

in The 2nd Monitor, 38 mins ago, by Dan Pantry

4

Q: Jon Skeet is getting out of line again

The great number of badges is making it break the line on the user card, screenshot: Here is the link to the answer: http://stackoverflow.com/a/420914/710693

bug design top-users user-card

Sparr

16:31

@quartata I'm only using 55 characters, and aggressively pruning the possibility tree

aditsu

@MartinBüttner github is the joke

Eᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏ Iʀᴋ

lol

Sparr

@quartata ! * + - / 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 : ; \ ` a D e F i K k L M P R r T u W x ¬ ± ² ¼ ½ π π Σ Σ τ ⁿ ⁿ ⌐ │ ┼ ╙ ╞ ╟ ╣ ╤ ▄ ▄ █ █ ♂

ignore the dupes :)

Eᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏ Iʀᴋ

@aditsu any particular reason you don't use github?

aditsu

@EᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏIʀᴋ well, the main reason is that it only supports git, and I don't use git

Eᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏ Iʀᴋ

16:37

@aditsu okay

@QPaysTaxes yay!!!!

aditsu

well, I have a github account and a little activity, but not my own projects

Eᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏ Iʀᴋ

@aditsu okay

@QPaysTaxes lol status-bydesign

flawr

@EᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏIʀᴋ I hope you've seen my most recent post of cat pictures.

Languages with a break statement should also implement a repair statement feature-request.

7

El'endia Starman

No Google results for "why does land crack that way". I'm shocked. Like, how is that possible?!

Basically, I'm wondering why these v look the way they do.

Mudcrack

Mudcracks (also known as desiccation cracks or mud cracks) are sedimentary structures formed as muddy sediment dries and contracts. Crack formation also occurs in clayey soils as a result of a reduction in water content. == Formation == Naturally forming mudcracks start as wet, muddy sediment desiccates, causing contraction. A strain is developed because the top layer tries to shrink while the material below stays the same size. When this strain becomes large enough, channel cracks form in the desiccated surface material, relieving the strain. Individual cracks spread and join up formin...

I see the same thing in a film of dried milk on the side of my cup.

mbomb007

I'm flipping board/bored. (╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻

Martin Büttner

16:45

@El'endiaStarman "mudcrack patterns" brings up a couple of papers

TimmyD

@mbomb007 Go generate a TetraVex board. ;-)

mbomb007

@TimmyD I would prefer JezzBall.

Eᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏ Iʀᴋ

@flawr AWWWW SO MUCH CUTENESS

thank you for making my morning cuter

Fatalize

cats aint that cute

Sparr

@quartata I'm confident that an optimal solution won't be found

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