The Nineteenth Byte

ven

21:00

@TimmyD it's okay <3

mbomb007

@MartinBüttner Woops, found a bug. hold that thought.

Fixed the link.

The input didn't pop the character each time.

To see the code and stuff before printing just the output, remove the last replace stage.

I'm taking a break on it for now, since I realized I should've done this a bit differently to implement [ and ] easily.

So I'll need to rewrite most of the existing stages.

phase

Anyone in here know about building JSON in Groovy?

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

@TimmyD You should follow Jolf. It's great and does all things

phase

21:17

@TimmyD You should make a PR to O! We're always trying to make it smaller!

mınxomaτ

After mitigating some problems, codegolf.xyz is up again. Now also with additional HTTPS support, which enforces SSL on all resources (just for fun).

Means that submissions that use(d) that domain should now work again.

phase

@mınxomaτ How did you do the masking with the uri staying? As in codegolf.xyz/questions/76277/…

flawr

who revoked the mod application?

Alex A.

?

Oh

muddyfish

mınxomaτ

@phase It's really just a PHP proxy with some edge-case handling.

flawr

21:19

Ah

thx

Alex A.

So far CKY and muddyfish have both dropped out

phase

@mınxomaτ Source? I've been brushing up on my PHP :3

mınxomaτ

@phase I'll post it on GitHub later.

flawr

@AlexA. Got dropped out or dropped out themselves?

mınxomaτ

It's really stupid simple cause I have no idea what I'm doing in PHP :)

Alex A.

21:20

@flawr Chris and muddyfish both dropped out of their own accord.

phase

        builder.append("\t${rank.text}: {\n\t\t\"num\": ${rank.num},\n\t\t\"image\": \"${rank.image}\"\n\t}${ranks.last() == rank ? "" : ","}\n")
 Best one liner I've made in a while.

quartata

@AlexA. Downgoat also dropped out.

Alex A.

I know

quartata

Oh.

undergroundmonorail

@phase Power ranking?

phase

21:30

@undergroundmonorail Pokemon Ranger

undergroundmonorail

i see

i never really got into pokemon ranger even though i got a copy for free

one time i was talking to my friends about pokemon and someone overheard us and said "hey i don't really care about pokemon any more, do you want this" and literally just handed me a copy of ranger

phase

I loved the games the games years ago, though they were a lot harder than the main series.

undergroundmonorail

i heard a bunch of people fucked up their touch screen with circles

flawr

What do you think of making one list of interesting oeis sequences in the sandbox?

Where anyone could add or post?

New Main Posts

1

Q: Create an ABACABA city

Here is the 3rd ABACABA city: _ A|_| B|__| A|_|__ C|____| A|_| B|__| A|_| It is made out of the ABACABA sequence, which is basically: A (1st iteration) place B - AB repeat A - ABA (2nd iteration) Place C - ABAC Repeat ABA - ABACABA (3rd iteration) and you get the idea. The buildings hav...

Solver

21:41

My post is here!

Wow.

epicTCK

anyone know a place where I can "beautify" my code without completly wrecking whitespace (I really don't car whether it uses tabs or spaces, as long as it makes it look nice and doesnt wreck when copy/pasting through editors)

Solver

Visual Studio Ctrl-K Ctrl-D

flawr

@epicTCK What kind of language?

epicTCK

@flawr c-like (javscript in this case)

@Solver can visual studio support languages other than c# and c++ (and vb and all the .net ones)?

Solver

@epicTCK I'm not sure, though it definitely works for js

:)

flawr

21:48

jsbeautifier.org

Alex A.

JavaScript beautifier? What does it do, turn it into a better language?

11

A and N

Ha got eem

flawr

@AlexA. Draws some butterflies and smiling clouds in your code.

epicTCK

Thanks all

@AlexA. lisp lovers...

mınxomaτ

@phase Source code: minxomat/codegolf.xyz

Solver

21:55

Oh, hi Alex.

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

@AlexA. ಠ_ಠ

flags as offensive

Solver

I <3 JS

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

@Solver :D

quartata

Why are there so many JS people

A and N

^

It's a virus

mınxomaτ

21:57

Why is there so much JS?

Solver

@quartata Node.js was the first thing I ever learnt.

After Scratch.

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

@Downgoat Could you add Reng to the userscript as being encoded in ISO 8859-1?

@quartata I count two at the moment. Less than there are JS antagonists.

Solver

At the age of 11.

mınxomaτ

Node programs are a disaster.

A and N

First language I learned was C#

quartata

21:58

@mınxomaτ This. So much this.

I learned Perl first.

JS is not a good first language.

Solver

@mınxomaτ It wasn't me!

quartata

Then again neither is Perl but I was a special snowflake

Solver

@quartata :D

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

@quartata So what are you saying? I am no less of a competent programmer, what do you care?

quartata

@mınxomaτ More to the point why do you need 3 dependencies to check whether an integer is positive

Solver

22:00

I can't program to save my life!

A and N

Ewww Perl

quartata

@CᴏɴᴏʀO'Bʀɪᴇɴ I personally don't think that it is a good language to learn first because it's more complicated/weird with certain things

That's all

mınxomaτ

@quartata That array package though. 800,000 fetches per day!

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

Now explain your dislike of it?

Solver

I find browser js weird, node.js awesome :)

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

22:01

Actually, hold that thought, I gotta go.

A and N

bye

quartata

I don't really want to flamewar about things I've outlined before so bye

Solver

bye

mınxomaτ

My first language was QuickBASIC on Windows 3.1. Then TASM.

El'endia Starman

@TimmyD Yep.

epicTCK

22:02

ooh i heard flamewar whassup

Alex A.

@AandN The first I learned was Visual Basic for Applications. I had no idea what I was doing.

quartata

@mınxomaτ I like BASIC if only for nostalgia

Solver

goodnight from uk.

Alex A.

Goodnight!

A and N

@AlexA. Hahaha

mınxomaτ

22:03

@quartata I wich some BASIC elements where implemented in C-like languages. Like e.g. a level argument for continue statements. Right now you have to use a flag variable or a goto.

quartata

@mınxomaτ Yeah, that always drives me nuts

Zgarb

I first "learned" TI-BASIC.

epicTCK

@mınxomaτ node != javascript

Zgarb

Basically by trial and error, because I had no manual and was too lazy to search for it.

mınxomaτ

@epicTCK Where did I say it is

epicTCK

22:05

@mınxomaτ nowhere

flawr

@Zgarb Same here=)

Zgarb

At the uni, I took a class in Python, and was like "Functions? Who needs those! I can just use GOTOs."

2

Alex A.

@Zgarb ಠ_ಠ

flawr

After Ti-Basic I learned PHP.

Zgarb

@AlexA. I was young and naive.

flawr

22:07

Then Java, and Java again.

mınxomaτ

Nothing wrong with goto, everything wrong with stupid programmers.

epicTCK

@AlexA. what is so wrong with javascript anyway

Zgarb

@flawr Java was my third language too, after Python. Then SQL (which I've totally forgotten), Common Lisp and Haskell. Recently APL and J for golfing.

flawr

@epicTCK Quite a few inconsistencies.

@Zgarb Oh yeah, SQL=)

Now I'm trying to learn Haskell and C++

Oh and Matlab obviously (did I learn)

Zgarb

Oh yeah, and Mathematica for work.

I don't use it that much though.

epicTCK

22:10

rn im "learning"=ish C

flawr

But honestly there is no language I'd consider myself good at.

I think Java/Matlab are the ones I'm quite fluent in...

epicTCK

^^

flawr

But no more than that=)

mınxomaτ

I have yet to learn LISP.

flawr

I still can't even use Github=)

Zgarb

22:12

@flawr Haskell is really the most beautiful language I know.

flawr

@Zgarb Oh I really like it so far=)

But I am not really that far.

mınxomaτ

But I'm fairly good at picking up languages just by their docs and fooling around. I never read a tutorial, and I've never met a good programmer who learned programming by tutorials.

epicTCK

@mınxomaτ here you go (((variable)((equals)(eleven)((plus))(three)))(((((print)))))(variable)(end)(of)‌((((program))))

its easy

I've just received word that the Emperor has dissolved the MIT computer science program permanently.

mınxomaτ

To be fair I probably expect an unusually high level of Autodidacticism from the devs I want to work with.

Alex A.

@epicTCK whydoesitsuck.com/why-does-javascript-suck

flawr

22:17

everything-sucks

mınxomaτ

At least ES doesn't have such a confusing ternary operator as PHP does.

Like, seriously.

Zgarb

@mınxomaτ Lisp was fun for a while, mostly because it eventually becomes a domain-specific language for your project.

Digital Trauma

@mınxomaτ I've been learning python from the online tutorials (and SO (and PPCG))... ...Oh , you said good progammer

mınxomaτ

@DigitalTrauma My definition of good is strange ;-)

Digital Trauma

@mınxomaτ please elaborate

mınxomaτ

22:21

Most of the devs we hire don't have any formal education at all. 50% dropped out of University because they studied something they weren't actually interested in. So they study one or two years, then stop. But they're all exceptional programmers. I don't care about their education or experience. A good programmer is almost 100% autodidactic and "gets sh*t done".

Most of the actual graduates we had apply for a job couldn't do any real world programming tasks whatsoever. They just had Java experience (cause that's what you mainly learn here in University) but failed at simple problems (as simple as FizzBuzz).

Basically, this: blog.codinghorror.com/the-nonprogramming-programmer

Fatalize

"A good programmer is almost 100% autodidactic and "gets sh*t done"."

can be sure

is, no

undergroundmonorail

i just put so much effort into writing an explanation for an answer in a language no one cares about haha

Liam

Anyone know what a good no-op is in rust... I'm having trouble finding one

just {} seems to be the best

mınxomaτ

> almost

Also, that's my strange world view that worked out great for me and our company. Your milage may vary greatly. :)

Fatalize

you may have found that all your great programmers are autodidactic

that doesn't mean all great programmers are, nor does it mean all autodidactic programmers are good

flawr

22:29

amazon.com/Sweary-Coloring-Book/e/B01ABLPQV0

mınxomaτ

@Fatalize I neither implied nor claimed that. I already said that it's my observation. I can't stretch that "almost" enough.

Exceptions validate the rule.

Add cultural differences to that.

Fatalize

I highly doubt that "almost all" great programmers are only autodidacts that dropped out of school

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

#autodidactic

epicTCK

@mınxomaτ HEY GUYS THIS MEANS IM A GOOD PROGRAMMER! i am not (yet at least), and this (might) be common knowledge

mınxomaτ

@Fatalize Again, I didn't say that. Now you're connecting two different statements I made and you took that "dropped out" completely out of context. Your experience may (and probably) will vary greatly. I already said that my experience is "strange" (as in unusual).

I did not make any statement about "all" programmers whatsoever and never will.

epicTCK

22:34

@mınxomaτ sorry, I'm just giving you a hard time. I get what you mean.

Fatalize

"A good programmer is almost 100% autodidactic and "gets sh*t done"." is a sentence about "almost all" programmers

but anyway I'll stop arguing about proper logical statements that are obviously false

mınxomaτ

@Fatalize That was a response to Digital Trauma who asked me to eloborate on *my*(!) opinion.

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

I hate chat markdown.

Digital Trauma

tangential question: if an undergrad interviewee claims to know java on their resume, is it fair for me (the interviewer) to expect them to know about the java runtime model, you know, to even know the terms "bytecode" and "jvm", etc?

mınxomaτ

@DigitalTrauma Why not just ask them? That saves both sides time :)

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

22:37

It depends on how liberal a definition of "know" you have :P

Fatalize

someone that knows Java and that doesn't know what the JVm is obviously doesn't know Java

quartata

@CᴏɴᴏʀO'Bʀɪᴇɴ My chat client will hopefully have better markdown support

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

Does JVM mean "Java Virtual Machine"?

@quartata :D I CANNOT WAIT

quartata

@DigitalTrauma It is completely fair; most intro-level Java courses start with explaining how the JVM works :P

(after the super basics of course)

Digital Trauma

@quartata I guess he was sleeping through that lecture then :-/

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

22:39

"Now, children, this is how you set a variable to zero: code." "Teacher?" "Yes, student?" "How do I set a variable to one?" "... you need to go the super basics course."

quartata

@DigitalTrauma haha

Digital Trauma

@quartata Also claimed OS courses but couldn't really give a good explanation of the kernel

quartata

Definitely a no then.

Just out of curiosity what's the job?

Fatalize

JS programming, so naturally he got hired

Digital Trauma

mostly systems/embedded programing for a fortune 500 networking gear company

quartata

22:42

@Fatalize Well, I wouldn't worry about knowing what a kernel or the JVM is if you're a JS programmer

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

@Fatalize ಠ_ಠ

quartata

It's more important to know how the browser works and JS things

Alex A.

The JVM is an important part of Java scripting because it is what makes JavaScript go.

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

Seriously?

:P

Dennis

> Java scripting

Alex A.

22:48

Java is short name for JavaScript

Fatalize

JavaScript Go

A and N

@AlexA. Hahahahah

Fatalize

can't imagine what monstrosity would result in the fusion of both those languages

A and N

This is going to hurt

Dennis

@AlexA. At expense of a longer syntax?

quartata

22:49

@Fatalize Just like JS but tabs only

Dennis

That would make it better.

Alex A.

That is false

aditsu

hi, I see Alex is still wrong as usual :)

Fatalize

Java is short name for Juice AVocAd

8

aditsu

haha

Alex A.

22:50

s/Juic\Ke//

aditsu

waiting for the bot to post something

Alex A.

What... is that

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

A cup of Java.

aditsu

looks like a cross-section of something, cut in the shape of the glass

flawr

Avocado Juice.

Digital Trauma

22:53

javascript is the java preprocessor

Alex A.

It looks more like a glass of melted mint chocolate chip ice cream

@DigitalTrauma You mean they are not same language?

New Sandboxed Posts

0

A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

Paint the Mona Lisa in 1 KiB of code This is my attempt to salvage this challange by Nathaniel, which was deleted after getting no less than 19 upvotes. Here is a picture of da Vinci's Mona Lisa: Your task is to reproduce the Mona Lisa in 1024 bytes or less. You will write a program or funct...

aditsu

ah there we go

quartata

He already created something similar:

176

Q: Paint Starry Night, objectively, in 1kB of code

Below is a 386x320 png representation of van Gogh's Starry Night. Your goal is to reproduce this image as closely as possible, in no more than 1024 bytes of code. For the purposes of this challenge, the closeness of images is measured by the squared differences in RGB pixel values, as explaine...

code-challenge graphical-output compression

mınxomaτ

@aditsu Well, Nathaniel already tried the "paint X in 1K" thing again (after Starry Night) and was met with mostly downvotes until he deleted that "new" challenge. So, I guess my advice would be to not post it. CC @quartata

aditsu

22:57

@quartata oh I didn't know about that

I just searched for Mona Lisa

mınxomaτ

There are many image-processing topics that would make a great challenge (despeckling, content-aware scaling, mixing modes etc.)

Don Muesli

@Dennis I managed to include modular indexing in MATL in a way compatible with the other forms of indexing it already has. The limitation is that modular indices can only be scalar. But I think it's a good addition. Thanks for the idea!

Alex A.

Dennis seems to have a lot of good ideas.

Don Muesli

Indeed! If only he'd made Jelly a little more comprehensible... :-P

Alex A.

XD

Dennis

23:01

Working on that... github.com/DennisMitchell/jelly/wiki

@DonMuesli Does that mean I should pull?

Don Muesli

Hey! Two new sections! :-)

mınxomaτ

@DonMuesli Wait's for Jelly to become a coreutil :D

Dennis

@DonMuesli Quicks is just a stub for now, but I'm planning to complete it before Monday.

Don Muesli

@Dennis Thanks, not yet. I'm accumulating more changes before that. I'll ask you to pull maybe tomorrow. (I use GitHub the wrong way, I know)

mınxomaτ

BTW: Does anyone know of a server script (or similar) that syncs an arbitrary git repo (not GitHub) with a GitHub one (should also work with private GitHub targets). I'd roll my own, but if anyone knows an existing one, that'd be helpful.

Alex A.

23:05

I assume you aren't talking about a mirror?

mınxomaτ

Well, I guess you could call it a mirror. Just a simple "take whatever is in xyz.git on that server and push it to the GitHub repo".

Alex A.

Would it be a functional remote or just a read only copy?

mınxomaτ

@AlexA. Read-only. Updated whenever there's a change in xyz.git.

Alex A.

Ah, so just a mirror of a repository.

mınxomaτ

Yeah. I don't trust the remote server :)

Alex A.

23:08

There's one for CJam on GitHub (CJam is hosted on SourceForge D:)

help.github.com/articles/about-github-mirrors

^ Should be just what you're after

mınxomaτ

NVM, I just found what I needed. I can change the functional repo to GitHub (using GitHub Import) and create a webhook.

Well, kinda ninja'd.

aditsu

@quartata @mınxomaτ the Starry Night challenge doesn't restrict the use of prewritten decompressors (and also doesn't count UTF-8 bytes), is there a chance my version could be acceptable? :p

mınxomaτ

@aditsu Still very uncreative though. And afaik Nathaniels second attempt did exclude blatant compression.

aditsu

do you have a link to it?

mınxomaτ

No, it's deleted.

aditsu

23:16

the original Mona Lisa one is deleted too, but I can see it

Dennis

@aditsu codegolf.stackexchange.com/questions/71363/…

eleven

aditsu

@mınxomaτ also, what do you mean by "uncreative"? perhaps insufficiently different?

quartata

@Dennis mod abyus eleven?

Dennis

definitely

aditsu

what's up with "eleven"?

@Dennis thanks

Dennis

23:20

Feb 16 at 22:24, by Dennis

Jan 31 at 21:27, by Alex A.

Jan 5 at 5:08, by Dennis

mod abuse eleven

mınxomaτ

@aditsu I consider it essentially the same challenge. But that's my opinion. Lengthy discussion: chat.stackexchange.com/rooms/35406/…

Don Muesli

I just found this (probably well known). I can't stop laughing

360

Q: What is the best comment in source code you have ever encountered?

What is the best comment in source code you have ever encountered?

comments

Dennis

Yeah, there are a few good ones.

mınxomaτ

> Hi guys, I get your opinions. Making this challenge as similar as possible to the other one was an essential part of my reason for posting it, so it makes no sense to argue that I could/should have improved it by making it different. But I have taken account of your opinions and deleted the challenge. It seems at this stage that it's only likely to result in close votes and fruitless, stressful discussions. So congrats, you win, and the site is a worse place for it, for me at least.

:S

Alex A.

:/

mınxomaτ

23:24

I stand by my criticism though.

aditsu

> if you added more restriction (i.e. no compression), I wouldn't have VTC'd it

mınxomaτ

@aditsu His opinion. Mine is different. I read what @CoolestVeto wrote, no need to point it out again. I wouldn't vote to close, but I probably would downvote.

aditsu

you're so mean :|

anyway, that seems to be the general attitude here (sadly)

talking about similar challenges

mınxomaτ

I don't mean to be. That's just my opinion. And taking that challenge and just changing the input (yes, both of Nathaniels challenges did discourage compression, but not forbid it) is the definition of uncreative. I upvoted the Starry Night challenges, because it improved the scoring method (from subjective to objective), IMO anyway. It all began with this challenge.

CoolestVeto

@mınxomaτ I have been pinged. Wat's going on?

mınxomaτ

23:31

in Discussion between VoteToClose and Nathaniel, Feb 7 at 13:40, by VoteToClose

I still disagree with that - these competitions both deal with approximating an image in less than 1 kB of code. A kolmogrov-complexity challenge can have hundreds of variations. A more accurate analogy here to that is if I asked a second "Print the lyrics of <blank> in <blank> bytes" after one has already been created.

About that other "image in 1K" challenge a while back.

CoolestVeto

Ah, okie.

aditsu

I wanted to post one because I didn't see the Starry Night one

but mınxomaτ says it's "uncreative"

mınxomaτ

Don't just take my feedback, wait what others have to say.

You shouldn't be discouraged just because I don't like it :)

aditsu

23:44

I strongly suspect you're not the only one; anyway I'll edit and undelete my sandbox entry and see what happens

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