The Nineteenth Byte

Quill

22:02

hey there @AquaTart

Aqua Tart

monking

LegionMammal978

Nothing for b <= 100000

Maltysen

@AquaTart tuesqueen

lirtosiast

@ETHproductions Does Cubix require its topology to be Turing-complete? That is, is it Turing complete with one face of instructions and five faces of nops?

LegionMammal978

Nothing for b <= 1000000

Helka Homba

22:05

Wolfram gave no answers

LegionMammal978

I'm using Mathematica

f[b_] := f[b] =
   With[{m = 10^IntegerLength[b]},
    Reduce[n^b == m n + b && n > 0 && n \[Element] Integers]];

Bent Nee Humor

first number = x

2nd number = y

crayzeedude

havent gotten anything yet with Int32.MaxValue

Bent Nee Humor

y is positive

crayzeedude

the only solution might be to use positive and negative integers, and zero

Bent Nee Humor

22:07

if x is positive, solve 10x + y = x ^ y

flawr

@crayzeedude Or abandon integers.

crayzeedude

@flawr good point

LegionMammal978

@BentNeeHumor But what if y > 9?

Bent Nee Humor

Same?

Wait a moment.

LegionMammal978

Then it's 100x + y = x ^ y, y > 9

Bent Nee Humor

22:08

Nevermind .

CoolestVeto

@BentNeeHumor Is x and y an integer?

LegionMammal978

1000x + y = x ^ y, y > 99

You get the point

Bent Nee Humor

I somehow missed that :(

flawr

@crayzeedude For example in the finite field F2 it works perfectly fine.

1^1 = 1 = 11

crayzeedude

?

flawr

22:09

!

Maltysen

@flawr ಠ_ಠ

Aqua Tart

GF(2)

GF(2) (also F2, Z/2Z or Z2) is the Galois field of two elements. It is the smallest finite field. == Definition == The two elements are nearly always called 0 and 1, being the additive and multiplicative identities, respectively. The field's addition operation is given by the table below, which corresponds to the logical XOR operation. The field's multiplication operation corresponds to the logical AND operation. One may also define GF(2) as the quotient ring of the ring of integers Z by the ideal 2Z of all even numbers: GF(2) = Z/2Z. == Properties == Because GF(2) is a field, many of ...

crayzeedude

this is beyond me

flawr

@Maltysen ಠ‿ಠ

Aqua Tart

Do you know what a field is?

crayzeedude

22:10

no

im a junior in high school

taking an advanced calc class

Aqua Tart

Do you know what a set is?

flawr

Well a field is a structure where you can add and multiply. But also the reverse of the two.

crayzeedude

@AquaTart things like real numbers, rational numbers, etc.?

flawr

For example the rational numbers form a field.

The real numbers too.

Also the complex numbers.

crayzeedude

yeah yeah

flawr

22:12

But not the integers.

Well and you can also find finite ones.

Look at the set {0,1} with the multiplication 0*1 = 0*0 = 0

And 1*1 = 1

and the addition 0+0 = 1+1 = 0

and 0+1 = 1

Helka Homba

Does no one want to answer ant-cube? :(

flawr

Ok that was a really bad way of explaining it.

crayzeedude

i only know about the sets of numbers

Aqua Tart

Kinda have to break it down :P

flawr

@HelkaHomba Not until you renamed yourself to a more reasonable name.

Maltysen

22:14

lemme try: a field is a kind of set with addition and multiplication that's commutative under multiplication

crayzeedude

not about any sort of operations on them or anything

Aqua Tart

A magma is a set of elements with an associated binary operation that takes two elements from the set and outputs an element in the set

flawr

@crayzeedude Well without the operations a set is quite useless.

crayzeedude

this is all going right over me ._.

flawr

@crayzeedude One more try: Take all integers and calculate mod 7

crayzeedude

22:15

so like

Helka Homba

@flawr "Calvin's Hobbies" was never a reasonable name, more of a phrase...

flawr

You can still add and multiply but just add a "mod7" to everything.

crayzeedude

for each number x in the set of ints, return x mod 7

flawr

Ok so far?

crayzeedude

something like that?

Bent Nee Humor

22:16

Approximate answer: -10^2.009864 = -102.00935463548397

Maltysen

@crayzeedude yeah but when you do math on those numbers, you mod seven again afterwards

flawr

@crayzeedude Exaclty, what you are left with are e.g. {0,1,2,3,4,5,6}

crayzeedude

ye

flawr

But you could also take 9, but in this case 9 = 2

So we only consider the numbers {0,1,...,6}

crayzeedude

i see

flawr

22:17

So the neat thing is that you can still substract as you are used to.

crayzeedude

but itll apply to each number in the set

flawr

And the even neather thing is that you can still DIVIDE

crayzeedude

i kinda figured

flawr

So what is 2/5 i hear you ask?

LegionMammal978

Revised revised challenge: find the smallest set of real numbers closed under exponentiation where the original challenge is solvable

crayzeedude

22:17

since if you can mod you can divide

flawr

@crayzeedude Not quite

Aqua Tart

@crayzeedude Not all rings are division rings

flawr

@AquaTart That was really helpful

Aqua Tart

...I was going to explain...

Quill

Fog Creek has been building an easy-to-use web development tool codenamed HyperWeb. Sign up for the beta http://goo.gl/forms/jE9JdS0KdR

Tweeted by spolsky on March 14, 2016 at 7:57 PM

crayzeedude

22:19

explain rings?

flawr

@flawr So for example 2/5 = 6, because 2 = 6*5 mod 7

Doorknob

in Tavern on the Meta on Meta Stack Exchange Chat, 1 min ago, by hichris123

So another thingy to "make" you "able" to create a "webapp"?

:P

Aqua Tart

Think of a ring like a set of numbers with two binary operations you can perfom on the numbers.

crayzeedude

huh

Quill

@Doorknob *insert related xkcd here*

flawr

22:20

It turns out when you consider {0,1,...,6} and take all the operations mod7 you can still do multiplication and division, addition and substraction. "as you are used to"

That is a field.

Let's say you take everything mod 6 this is going to fail

It turns out this construction only works if you take it mod p where p is a prime number.

If it is not prime, you will find two nonzero number whos product is zero, which is bad.

In this case you call this stuff a Ring and not a field.

</lecture>

crayzeedude

so lets see if im getting this

a field is the result of an operation performed on the members of a set,

and you can perform additions/subtractions/multiplications/divisions on this field normally

flawr

Id say a field is a set together with those operatiosn.

PhiNotPi

So apparently it's starting to be a thing where Microsoft is making Windows 10 a "recommended" update for Win7 users.

flawr

@crayzeedude But that is basically it.

Doorknob

@PhiNotPi it wasn't already?

flawr

22:24

@crayzeedude mathworld.wolfram.com/FieldAxioms.html

PhiNotPi

As in, supposedly people are getting "auto-updated."

Doorknob

oh...

crayzeedude

microsoft pls

Quill

they should've done that for IE not their OS

crayzeedude

let me try this again

flawr

22:26

If you take a set, define two operations on the elements of this set, call those operations + and * and if those operatiosn satisfy the criteriosn listed, you have a field.

Aqua Tart

Anyways, the point of all this is that it generalizes the concepts and axioms of arithmetic. Rings don't have to consist of sets of numbers, they can be matrices or polynomials...

Bent Nee Humor

-10**2.008636944492642... == -102.008636944492642...

crayzeedude

ohhhhhhh okay

Aqua Tart

This field (not that kind of field) is called abstract algebra.

crayzeedude

so if we were to relate this to programming

* and + would be kind of like methods?

Bent Nee Humor

22:27

Quick question: How to factor a GF2 polynomial?

PhiNotPi

And so my dilemma is that I might want to disable auto-updating, but my university doesn't allow me to.

Aqua Tart

@crayzeedude Yes.

flawr

@crayzeedude FieldElement mult(FieldElement a, FieldElement b);

crayzeedude

ahh neat

flawr

And when talking generall about "fields" you only talk about the "abstract class" (as in java)

Aqua Tart

22:28

Nitpick moment: A method usually means a function defined in a class, but in this case you can kinda think of the elements as being an object so that works

flawr

And what you can infer from the abstract class.

LegionMammal978

@BentNeeHumor Umm... that number is actually 101.971... + 2.76754...i

Bent Nee Humor

Not according to wolfram :P

flawr

Wolfram lies.

Bent Nee Humor

@LegionMammal978 Besides, how would you get that? The power is not negative.

flawr

22:32

@BentNeeHumor For small ones you can easily bruteforce.

As there are only 2^(n+1) polynomials of degree <=n in F2

Aqua Tart

@crayzeedude Going back to GF2, you can think of GF2 as integers over mod 2

Bent Nee Humor

@flawr what about something big like 200 terms.

crayzeedude

so like

{...-1, 0, 1, 2, 3...} % 2?

Aqua Tart

Yeah. So the only numbers are {0, 1}.

flawr

@crayzeedude Yup. Now try to find all "classes" (subsets) where all numbers are equal mod 2

crayzeedude

22:34

@flawr did you mean equal to?

flawr

@crayzeedude nope A==B mod 2 is just (A-B) == 0 mod 2

Maltysen

@crayzeedude its called congruency

flawr

@Maltysen Or identity on remainder classes=)

crayzeedude

wait what

flawr

@BentNeeHumor You mean the degree is about 100?

Bent Nee Humor

22:37

No, about 200 :)

Easterly Irk

@AlexA. ELI5 julia macros?

Don't quote xkcd at me, and the julia page wasn't helpful.

Alex A.

What is ELI5?

flawr

@BentNeeHumor Well shit.

Aqua Tart

'Am I taking care of you? I have a thesis to write!' 'My parents are at their house; you visited last--' 'No, no, explain like you're five.'

flawr

@AlexA. Explain Like I'm 5

Aqua Tart

22:40

dammit you literally ninja'd me with "don't quote xkcd"

Easterly Irk

dam son, rekt

Bent Nee Humor

gtg

Easterly Irk

@AlexA. that was fast.

flawr

@BentNeeHumor Use Maple?

XD

Aqua Tart

@EasterlyIrk :/

Easterly Irk

22:41

:)

I can be a fake alex sock.

flawr

I don't think there is thealgorithm, but a lot of not quite as bad ones for different cases.

Easterly Irk

With damned sons and julia everywhere.

flawr

@EasterlyIrk Why damned sons?

Alex A.

@EasterlyIrk When you call a function, you're calling some compiled entity that accepts some parameters and does some shit. When you call a macro, it expands to Julia code, like you wrote the code yourself, rather than calling a function.

I have yet to find a situation in which a macro better suited my needs than a function

Aqua Tart

@EasterlyIrk all you need is a degree in statistics and you'd be good to go

official alex impersonator

Alex A.

22:43

( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

flawr

@AquaTart And you have to pretend to love dogs.

(Love as in not eat.)

Aqua Tart

@flawr Ah, right.

That'll be a little tricky since Riker is a cat disguised as the Seventh Doctor

Easterly Irk

@flawr Alex loves the quote "dam son".

@AquaTart yup

And disguised as a human 13 yr old going through statistics and hating it.

Aqua Tart

D:

Easterly Irk

@AlexA. okay.

@AquaTart what?

flawr

22:46

@EasterlyIrk So where is this quote from?

Alex A.

@EasterlyIrk Does that make sense?

Aqua Tart

I'm sorry to hear that you don't like statistics

flawr

@AlexA. Does life make sense?

Aqua Tart

@flawr Does your face make sense?

Alex A.

flawr

22:46

@AquaTart Does your mom make sense?

Aqua Tart

@flawr oh shit

flawr

@AquaTart Beat that!

Aqua Tart

@flawr That's what she said

Easterly Irk

@AquaTart eh, it'l be better when i get done with the other stuff

Aqua Tart

@EasterlyIrk Are you taking AP/Honors statistics or just your regular run of the mill probably not very good statistics class

Easterly Irk

22:47

@AlexA. Yes, and so does your mom, life, and cats.

flawr

so cu guys

Easterly Irk

@AquaTart AP.

Aqua Tart

@EasterlyIrk Hm, OK.

Alex A.

I didn't take a course in statistics until college

flawr

@AlexA. You could chose stat before college?

Alex A.

22:49

What?

Aqua Tart

@AlexA. I think the AP stats is one of the newer AP math courses

Alex A.

I think AP stats was a thing when I was in high school

Aqua Tart

Oh, 1996. Not that new.

AP Statistics

Advanced Placement Statistics (AP Statistics, AP Stat or AP Stats) is a college-level high school statistics course offered in the United States through the College Board's Advanced Placement program. This course is equivalent to a one semester, non-calculus-based introductory college statistics course and is normally offered to juniors and seniors in high school. One of the College Board's more recent additions, the AP Statistics exam was first administered in May 1996 to supplement the AP program's math offerings, which had previously consisted of only AP Calculus AB and BC. In the United States...

Easterly Irk

@AquaTart eh, teacher is mean/crappy/stupid

Maltysen

@EasterlyIrk do you think the test can be self-studied?

since you're taking the course and all

Easterly Irk

22:50

Yes.

Alex A.

I didn't like the pace of high school classes. I can imagine that taking anything remotely interesting in high school would be sufficient to destroy one's interest.

Easterly Irk

I learned most stuff from wikipedia and wolfram wiki. I actually didn't know wolfram alpha was a thing. >.<

@Maltysen Definitely, cause i has crappy study skills.

But I am doing fineish, i think A- average.

flawr

@EasterlyIrk Better improve them. Yer gonna needem

Alex A.

@EasterlyIrk The book I used in my intro course was pretty decent and wasn't too mathy or high-level. Could be worth checking out for an AP class.

Easterly Irk

I know.

@AlexA. eh, don't mind the mathyness.

flawr

22:52

@EasterlyIrk Great=)

Easterly Irk

I just hate teachers who act condescending and then can't answer anything not directly presented in the text.

flawr

"Please ping me for absolutely no reason. No seriously, do it." - @EasterlyIrk

Alex A.

@EasterlyIrk Well, most college level stats textbooks are based on calculus, and then the graduate level ones have measure theory :P

Easterly Irk

@flawr NOT NO REASON

ETHproductions

@lirtosiast Cubix does not require topology to be Turing-complete. You can write any program the language can support on one side. It'll just need a few extra direction-controlling chars.

flawr

22:52

@EasterlyIrk

Well annoying you is a reason too. F*ck.

@EasterlyIrk

Alex A.

Please don't deliberately annoy another user

It's not particularly nice, and Stack Exchange's "be nice" policy applies network-wide, including in chat.

flawr

@AlexA. I'd never even dare to think of such a crude thing.

Alex A.

ಠ_ಠ

flawr

So cu guys.

Gonna shut down my computer before 12:00pm, other wise I'd have stay awake for another hour.

Zach Gates

Cover your eyes, Alex is evolving into his final form!

Maltysen

22:55

2 mins ago, by flawr

Well annoying you is a reason too. F*ck.

I guess this was your alter ego ;P

Alex A.

@flawr That's interesting logic. :P Goodnight!

flawr

@AlexA. Isn't this the same for everyone?

Easterly Irk

@AlexA. julia escape for backspace? the destructive one.

Alex A.

@EasterlyIrk Backslash?

Easterly Irk

Not \b.

Alex A.

22:56

Oh

Wait

flawr

Slashback, the desctructive one.

Alex A.

Backspace

flawr

Could be a film title or so.

Easterly Irk

@AlexA. yeah...

I think \b is the nondestructive one.

er wiat

julia> print("1\b")
1
julia> print("1\b2")
2
julia>

Maltysen

\b \b

Alex A.

22:58

As long as it isn't a regular expression string, i.e. r"1\b2", that should work as expected.

Easterly Irk

Yeah, but "1\b" doesn't give "".

That is what I want.

Zach Gates

Should Gogh use single or double quotes for string literals? I was thinking doubles, but I don't have any definitive logic behind the choice

Easterly Irk

Both.

wait string literals or char.

Eschew the cursed chat literals.

Alex A.

Personal preference is double. I despise it when language allow both.

Easterly Irk

:(

ಠ_ಠ

Zach Gates

23:01

Yeah, I don't want both

Easterly Irk

>:U

ಠ_ಠ

Q_Q

Going through all the stages of grief here.

rages at computer

gives up

Maltysen

@EasterlyIrk idk julia,but i know python, "\b "

ETHproductions

> chat literals

Maltysen

replaces it with a space which is invisible

flawr

#fail

Easterly Irk

23:04

@Maltysen Same, but I want the julia one.

@ETHproductions oops

@flawr ಠ_ಠ

Alex A.

@Maltysen What does "1\b" give in Python?

Easterly Irk

strawpoll.me/7084572

Maltysen

\b is ctrl-H in python

i'm guessing same in julia, it moves the cursor back one but doesn't change the text until you write over the text with something else @AlexA.

Easterly Irk

@AlexA. 1.

WTF?

flawr

@EasterlyIrk twitter.com/antijokeapple/status/534947389933903872

Alex A.

23:06

Looks like \b always wants something to the right of it

Easterly Irk

Wrong link.

@AlexA. are rem and mod the same?

Maltysen

@EasterlyIrk again idk juila, but i'm guessing its different for negatives

42

A: What's the difference between “mod” and “remainder”?

There is a difference between modulus and remainder. For example: -21 mod 4 is 3 because -21 + 4 x 6 is 3. But -21 divided by 4 gives -5 with a remainder of -1. For positive values, there is no difference.

Alex A.

Ninja'd

Easterly Irk

okay cool.

lirtosiast

@ETHproductions That's too bad. I'd post a 500 point bounty on a cube-related question if it were. Maybe I still will.

ETHproductions

23:17

@lirtosiast Why would that stop you from posting the bounty? The program will still be much shorter if you use multiple faces, since you have to pad it with no-ops until it reaches the proper side length.

Don Muesli

Say you have an array [10 20 30 40] and an indexing array [1 0 2] (0-indexing). In CJam, how does one index the first with the second to get [20 10 30]? I only found how to use a single number as index, not how to use an array as index

Maltysen

23:35

@DonMuesli implicit map?

in cjam is indexing done by an operator?

Don Muesli

@Maltysen Indexing operator is = . So [10 20 30 40]2= gives 30. To allow that 2 to be an array I thought of .= (vectorize). But it doesn't work because it applies to each element of the first array, not the whole first array. Map with extra parameter doesn't work either

Easterly Irk

TIL Singapore doesn't like people who modify nerf guns in the US and ship them to Singapore.

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