The Nineteenth Byte

Maltysen

04:00

@AquaTart err sorry, ho.a-NQJ

Aqua Tart

ah OK that makes more sense

Sp3000

@Geobits Yeah, I don't really mind that the sites are different, was just speaking my mind. IMO PPCG's much better for learning how to golf, but anarchy's better for actually pushing the limits of what's possible

Anonymous

Anagolf is better for competitive people, PPCG is better for cooperative people

xnor

I still don't really understand how Anarchy as a whole is just so damn good at golfing

Sp3000

Are you sure it's not just mitch/xsot/you? :P

xnor

04:02

i could list a lot of users

for Python, offhand: hallvabo, llhuii, teebee, leonid

Mitch Schwartz

also twobit

xnor

ah yes

Sp3000

(headdesk saved 3 bytes because I was doing something stupid - still only 67 though hmm)

xnor

some of the tips for python that I posted I first saw from their answers

Alex A.

I'd love to see us be the go-to place for code golf but it seems like that won't be the case if Anarchy is where the real competition is.

Aqua Tart

04:04

@Maltysen works (and I think I understand why)

Now just gotta generate the list hrmm

Mitch Schwartz

tybalt89 hasn't submitted for a long time, he was golfing way back in perl golf days, with ton hospel and them

Maltysen

@AquaTart I was gonna do this, but I already did the other one,so… the shortest way is probably to generate 0..999 and then when computing differences and sorting by them, convert from minute:second to pure seconds

Mitch Schwartz

and there are a lot of old submissions from flagitious, the inventor of golfscript, also mark byers

Alex A.

That guy should join the language building community here.

Anonymous

I'm down to 71 bytes now...

trichoplax

04:10

@Doorknob For me the 5th result is newest code golf questions on SO

Doorknob

heh

Aqua Tart

@Maltysen Oh, we dont have to support n>999?

thats easier then

Mitch Schwartz

in terms of anarchy golf community, there is some discussion on japanese twitter accounts that i know of, although i don't know japanese and i haven't had much luck with machine translation from japanese to english, google translate tends to mangle a lot of things

Anonymous

Doorknob

try incognito

different results, personalized searches

(same top two for me though)

errr... item #2 is not "tips for golfing in Python" it's just a general PPCG page

Aqua Tart

04:15

I was thinking map 1..Q+1/10 d*int("1"*len(Q))

Anonymous

It's not terribly surprising that SE does better SEO than anagolf :P

Aqua Tart

rats I thought of better approach but we cant nest maps

flatten(map(lambda x : map(lambda y : str(y) * x, 1..9), 1 .. len(Q)+1)) in really bad Python psuedo code

@Maltysen is there a way to nest maps like this?

oh crap nevermind I had no idea input was in minutes:seconds

Darn I had no idea that this entire time I was really solving the other already solved challenge :p

...anyways

El'endia Starman

04:34

@AquaTart Lazy microwave time?

Aqua Tart

Yeah that was what I thought I was working on.

But I misread the spec and ended up unintentionally working on a solution for the other challenge

Anonymous

I'm still stuck at 71 on the anagolf one :/

Dennis

I'm at 68.

Sp3000

Still pretty stuck too hmm - so many possibilities, but too much to brute force

Dennis

And have been there for an hour... :/

Anonymous

04:47

I'm not sure what I'm missing :/

Alex A.

I'm not sure how to internet :/

Anonymous

I'm going through all the tips on the Python tips post but haven't found anything yet

Anonymous

On the plus side:

Anonymous

I made it onto page 2 \o/

Sp3000

04:50

There's only one which really helps I think, the rest will need actual ingenuity/expression generating skills

Geobits

@Mego Congrats! Better build you a buffer now ;)

Anonymous

Yeah as soon as I either hit 64 or give up on this problem, I'll start farming more

Anonymous

@Sp3000 I think I found the one trick that helps, and I'm already using it

Anonymous

Another one might also help but I'm not sure it can be applied here

Mitch Schwartz

fwiw, i didn't consider brute forcing to be a part of it at all

Sp3000

04:59

Oh? Hmm... having trouble knocking 2 off this expression though

Anonymous

I'm sure I'm missing something super obvious in this expression

xsot

@MitchSchwartz In hindsight, I think my solution can be brute forced

Mitch Schwartz

i don't know how to get your stats :)

xsot

same..

grc

what's with all the id(0)s at anarchy?

Sp3000

05:02

Random :/

grc

so just resubmit until it passes?

Sp3000

Yeah

xsot

It only works on problems without the rejudge feature enabled

Sp3000

Oh, recently added. Nice :)

Mitch Schwartz

basically i started with a 66 that could considered as (standard way of defining suffix rules) + (standard python tricks and re-arranging), then two independent one-byte improvements that are math-related

Anonymous

05:08

Yess breakthrough

Anonymous

Made it to 69 now

feersum

Wow I can't believe this problem is still the topic

Mitch Schwartz

well we were discussing carrots earlier

oh how did you come up with the 7*g**6 ?

was really surprised to see that

feersum

Well since there was only a small range that it had to work for, I thought maybe there could be some expression which has the right value by luck

The right length I mean

So I tried some expressions for a few minutes

Mitch Schwartz

that's cool, there wasn't a whole lot of time between when you submitted 61 and then 59

feersum

05:15

yeah

There aren't that many possibilites in 6 bytes I guess

Sp3000

What's this for?

Mitch Schwartz

@Sp3000 golf.shinh.org/p.rb?An+afaik+unnamed+involution

Sp3000

Ah, nice :P

xsot

@MitchSchwartz I didn't know about n^-n. Is it an already well-known expression?

Mitch Schwartz

not that i know of, but there's n^(n-1)

Eridan

05:22

Chat mini challenge - find the next number in the sequence: 1, 5, 27, 194, 1865, 22875, ?

Mitch Schwartz

i experimented because i was at 61 and then saw feersum's 59

Sp3000

@Eridan 42. -(37579 x^6)/240+(594173 x^5)/240-(697355 x^4)/48+(1890703 x^3)/48-(5849303 x^2)/120+(647029 x)/30+1 for x = 0..6

El'endia Starman

@Eridan 342391

Eridan

Hint, it's greater than 25000

@El'endiaStarman I haven't actually calculated the next term because WolframAlpha is slow and my calculator is out of reach, what's the general formula?

Mitch Schwartz

42 is greater than 25000, learn something every day

El'endia Starman

05:26

@Eridan Well, it's the only search result on OEIS. :P

Eridan

Well damn

OEIS strikes again

El'endia Starman

You should know by now, always look up a number sequence in the OEIS first. :P

Anonymous

It's kinda sad how so many of my linux issues get resolved because I finally break down, download the source, and compile/install it myself rather than trying to use a package manager

Anonymous

Also I may have bricked my Xubuntu install

Anonymous

When gcc stops working, you know you've messed up bad

Eridan

05:30

Complete these sequences:
1, ?, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7
3, ?, 3, 3, 3, 3, 3
1, ?, 1, 0, 1, 0, 1

Hint - It's not {2, 3, 0}

xsot

@MitchSchwartz @xnor 63 :)

Sp3000

D:

Mitch Schwartz

:D congrats!

El'endia Starman

...well, dang.

Sp3000

Nice work :)

xsot

05:31

I think I know what your 64 looks like now

El'endia Starman

Congrats! :D

Mitch Schwartz

xnor with the accurate instincts

Sp3000

So, xsot. How likely is 62? :P

Anonymous

Enjoy the 500 rep bounty lol

Dennis

Do anagol submissions become visible once the competition is over?

Mitch Schwartz

05:32

yup

Sp3000

@Eridan -1 too broad :/

Eridan

<eyes>

El'endia Starman

@Eridan ಠ_ಠ?

Eridan

Yes

I'm too tired to switch tabs

And find the eyes

El'endia Starman

disapprovalface.com

Eridan

05:33

ಠ_ಠ

xsot

@Dennis except for the ones marked "endless". Those will remain secret forever

Eridan

It's 2, 2, 9 because the top row is the month and the second and third rows are the number of days in the month

Anonymous

Or just @<tab><tab><home><del>

El'endia Starman

@Mego That's only possible now because @ಠ_ಠ came in here recently.

xsot

@Sp3000 unlikely. But 71 for python3 is almost certainly possible

Sp3000

05:37

Oh? That's interesting

Anonymous

@El'endiaStarman Yep thank Alex for that

El'endia Starman

Oh, somebody's here.

somebody

where?

El'endia Starman

there!

Anonymous

Obligatory "does anybody have comments on my sandboxed post" message

Anonymous

05:40

0

A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

The Holier Numbers As we learned from The Holy Numbers, there are 5 holy digits (0, 4, 6, 8, 9), and positive integers consisting solely of those digits are holy. Additionally, the holiness of a number is the sum of the holes in the number (+2 for every 0 or 8, and +1 otherwise). Now, there is ...

somebody

/me needs a quick emoticon input method

El'endia Starman

@Mego Try working a "reversed holarity" pun in there somewhere. :P

Sp3000

Not seeing what the challenge adds to the holy numbers, but shrugs

Anonymous

@Sp3000 Different sorting, different sequence, one less parameter

somebody

@El'endiaStarman you mean add 'Digits to the right of the decimal point have reversed holarity.'?

Anonymous

05:44

I had another idea for a follow-up challenge that I could do instead

New Sandboxed Posts

-1

A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

Battle of the Sieves In this challenge, we will be seeing how much we can optimize the Sieve of Atkin (SOA). To do this, we will be checking our SOA time against an implementation of the ancient Sieve of Eratosthenes (SOE). The task You must write TWO programs/functions in the SAME language....

Liam

RIP the instant, commentless downvote.

Anonymous

@Liam That was me. I downvoted it because I didn't think it was interesting. No comment needed.

Liam

That's the comment I would have liked to see. "Doesn't look interesting"

feersum

algorithm-bowling: write the slowest Sieve of Eratosthenes.

Anonymous

05:53

@Liam That's what a sandbox downvote means

Liam

@Mego was unaware of that, sorry

Sp3000

@Mego Er...

Anonymous

Unless it's accompanied by a comment like "this has these problems..." or the like, a sandbox downvote typically means "this doesn't look interesting"

Sp3000

For me, it's more of a simple "I don't think this works as a challenge on the main site". Each to their own, I guess

Liam

^ not to each his own, that's what comments are for?

Sp3000

05:58

If I downvote and you get no comment, you're probably doing something seriously wrong :P

Liam

Haha see that's what I think when I see any downvote without a comment.

"Something so wrong it doesn't even merit a comment"

feersum

I'll probably comment with a downvote on a proposed challenge, unless it's so awful I don't know where to begin.

Mitch Schwartz

sunlight reflecting off a weather balloon causing an involuntarily index finger muscle contraction

Liam

@feersum in regards to your earlier comment, you don't think it'd be viable to standardize an algorithm across languages for the sieve of eratosthenes?

feersum

No, not at all.

Liam

06:05

what exactly do you see the problem as?

I have a kind of narrow viewpoint because I don't really use the golfing languages.

feersum

I don't care about golfing languages either.

Liam

Because I think I could write almost the same implementation in C/C++ and python?

feersum

There are many possible choices which would change the constanct factors (which are the important part)

Liam

I don't think I know what you mean by "constant factors"

Anonymous

Say you have two algorithms that are O(n)

Anonymous

06:10

In reality, their performance is A*n + B, but those constants stop mattering for high n, so we just say O(n) for asymptotic performance

Liam

But we're not comparing things across langauges

Anonymous

But when you're comparing two algorithms, them both being O(n) doesn't mean they'll be the same speed - their respective constants A and B will matter

Anonymous

So if algo a was 5*n + 400 and algo b was 10*n + 2, though they are both O(n), they will have different timing profiles for various inputs

Liam

I admit to not knowing all that much about algorithm complexity, but we're talking about implementing the same algorithm in different languages.

Intentionally "slowing" your implementation would be cheating (hard to detect perhaps but still)

Anonymous

There may be a legitimate choice in the implementation that would slow it

Liam

06:16

And I would think that there would be much more optimization to be done on the sieve of atkin

Anonymous

Relying on a reference implementation for each language just doesn't work

feersum

btw I also dislike challenges that tell you to use a specific algorithm.

Rather than saying this is what you need to compute; do it however is fastest.

Liam

the trouble there is having to run everything on the same machine

feersum

That's far easier than having a reference implementation in every possible language.

Liam

but then the SOE in C will likely beat an optimized SOA in other languages

and now its "choose the fastest language"

feersum

06:20

This is no different than code golf.

Liam

exactly

I wanted to compare optimization of implementation

somebody

@Liam some other languages

Liam

06:49

@somebody ?

somebody

31 mins ago, by Liam

but then the SOE in C will likely beat an optimized SOA in other languages

in some cases JIT beats C/C++

Liam

What I mean is that, generally speaking, interpreted languages really don't stand a chance against a compiled system programming language in terms of execution time.

xnor

@xsot congrats!

what PPCG answer do you want the bounty on?

it has the extra side-benefit of exposure for an answer of yours

Anonymous

He could post it on our ordinal challenge after the reveal

Anonymous

And you could put the bounty on that

xnor

07:00

do we have this challenge?

Anonymous

14

Q: Outputting ordinal numbers (1st, 2nd, 3rd)

I would like to generate (as a return result of a function, or simply as the output of a program) the ordinal suffix of a positive integer concatenated to the number. Samples: 1st 2nd 3rd 4th ... 11th 12th 13th ... 20th 21st 22nd 23rd 24th And so on, with the suffix repeat...

xnor

oh, of course, i did see that

Anonymous

That way the bounty is actually relevant :P

xnor

that sounds a lot better

Anonymous

The current Python answer is how I got to 69, but I'm stuck there for now :/

xsot

07:01

good idea, I'll make a submission here once the contest is over

xnor

@xsot Can I ask, did you use any computer search to optimize expressions?

Anonymous

Still got time to beat 63 :P

Anonymous

I'll keep working on it to see if I can manage to figure out how the 63 works :P

xsot

@xnor No, but I got quite lucky

Anonymous

I'm guessing magic number nonsense

xnor

07:03

@xsot as in, "it works for test cases" lucky?

xsot

no, but if there was a special suffix for 4 it wouldn't work

Katenkyo

Hi everyone !

Anonymous

I'd probably do better if I had the precedence table memorized :P

xsot

@Mego There's a magic number but it's not unique

Anonymous

I know I can improve mine with a magic number trick, but I'm having difficulty coming up with said number

Anonymous

07:07

Being sleepy doesn't help

Katenkyo

@Mego drink more coffee :)

xnor

well, i'm not gonna try any more with this one

i'm interested in this new one: golf.shinh.org/p.rb?Count+Carries

Anonymous

@Katenkyo I'm gonna sleep more, then coffee :P

Katenkyo

@Mego Then take a tea before sleeping, it will help you sleep well, and be awake when you wake up :p

things a student have to do when he's alternating 3h work/1h sleep at night to be able to do all its projects

Sp3000

07:23

@xnor f=lambda a,b:a*b and... ... damn :P

STDIN input really changes everything

xnor

yeah

Sp3000

08:05

@xnor Hmm, this is pretty hard. I don't see how you dropped 2, let alone mitch's 21. The closest useful thing I've found is this, but I don't think it works for base 10

xnor

i'm finding a lot of promising-looking solutions to be lengthy

conversions back and forth from int to string are costly

zip is finicky with truncation

i don't know what magic mitch is pulling

Sp3000

... and map is finniky with Nones :/

Yeah, not sure whether int's better or str's better here

xnor

ooh, i got something

11 to go

Sp3000

:o nice

Katenkyo

why does this type of question gets put on hold instead of being deleted?

Sp3000

08:20

Close votes happen first, then delete votes I think

somebody

someone help make the dark theme better

Katenkyo

Still bugging me, but thanks for the reply ^^

Sp3000

Hmm 86. Well I think I know what xnor's "11 to go" was :P

New Main Posts

08:40

1

Q: LaTeX Table Generator

Write a function or program which, given a number of lines and columns, generates a corresponding tabular environment for LaTeX with no data in it. Table format and tabular Environment Here is an example of a table with 2 rows and 4 columns: As you can see, we do not count the first row nor ...

code-golf string kolmogorov-complexity typography

somebody

09:11

also, can anyone help improve this old abandoned userscript from here? (the differ is slightly broken)

Quill

10:54

evening

Katenkyo

Good morning, whoever you are (your name is displayed as loading... ^^)

Quill

I'm very tempted to change my name to loading...

in The 2nd Monitor, 1 hour ago, by Vogel612

Code Review swag has arrived

Katenkyo

Too late, your profile pic loaded now, Hi Quill!

More than the swag, I love th Quack :D

somebody

sechat.quickmediasolutions.com :D

Quill

11:12

// You are officially a genius if you can understand what this
// RegEx I wrote does:

somebody

^- i really don't think the regex is hard to understand

especially to people from code golf/retina experts

Katenkyo

^

somebody

but look at the differ i wrote D:

doesn't even work properly

also, forgot to change it to html

Sp3000

Is Quill's first reaction to any post that includes code to review it? :P

somebody

today i discovered stackapps.com/questions/tagged/script

now i have about 6 userscripts just for SE D:

Quill

11:16

@Sp3000 pretty much

Sp3000

Challenge idea: Write a piece of code in under 50 bytes that'll cause Quill to leave the most code review comments on it

5

somebody

@Sp3000 too subjective

Quill

@Sp3000 :)

Katenkyo

how to make people at CR cry: only use recursion and ternary in your code, even when it doesn't fit (need a switch? :D)

somebody

what happens if you post a Jelly program to CR?

Katenkyo

11:23

@somebody if it is well-written, they'll help you golf it down?

Quill

@Katenkyo I love ternaries with a passion

@Katenkyo Golfing is off-topic

Sp3000

_=input("")
p=P=1
while _-p:p=p+1;P*=_%p<1
print P

... I tried my hardest

Katenkyo

@Quill Yeah, but a well written source is a well written source, isn't it? ^^

@Sp3000 bad network, sadly...

Sp3000

:)

grc

@Sp3000 no tabs?

Quill

11:32

We do style suggestions on Esolangs though

Our Mod, Simon, does Brainfuck style suggestions

Sp3000

@grc Ah, that's a good one :P

grc

protip: you can have up to 7 spaces before each tab without changing the indentation level

Katenkyo

11:46

@Quill Is there a lot of BF questions? Oo

Quill

codereview.stackexchange.com/questions/tagged/…

Katenkyo

(I'm actually trying to go on CR.se by myself, but can't even load the main page...)

Quill

22

A: Hello, Brainfuck

Brainfuck Multiplication Elaborating a bit more about 200_success' multiplication, and the "shorter, less readable version, using similar ideas, but with more cell reuse": The ASCII values of what you want to write is, as 200_success mentioned: 72 101 108 108 111 44 32 87 111 114 108 100 33 ...

somebody

needs opinions on what unicode emoticons are vital

Katenkyo

@Quill wow.... That's impressive!

Sp3000

11:54

codereview.stackexchange.com/a/104022/64391 <-- Looks like Simon self-reviews too

(you can do that?)

Quill

yeah

Katenkyo

I love his comments

> boolean is always one... no shit sherlock

grc

12:15

5

didn't make the 50-byte limit, but I'm quite proud that it's a working factorial program

Optimizer

nice comment

i couldn't have figured else

Katenkyo

I love the sixth line

grc

@Optimizer I heard that it's important to include comments

Optimizer

I only see comment

no comments

grc

oops

at least the code is readable

Optimizer

12:21

with all those tabs.. I don't think so

grc

but I've got spaces there too

best of both worlds

Sp3000

@grc Nice! You're just one public static void main away now...

Quill

@grc 50-byte limit?

Optimizer

@grc yeah, and then your code also ends up like Miley

grc

eh how do you quote a comment in chat again?

Optimizer

12:23

link

grc

1 hour ago, by Sp3000

Challenge idea: Write a piece of code in under 50 bytes that'll cause Quill to leave the most code review comments on it

@Quill ^

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

with(window){var varName=094;location+=varName}

Quill

oh hey

that's me

@CᴏɴᴏʀO'Bʀɪᴇɴ is that an entry?

grc

@CᴏɴᴏʀO'Bʀɪᴇɴ why does js allow 094 o.O

Katenkyo

big questions going on in my mind, is it better to format your code like `while''{

}`or like `
while''
{

}`?

Hum, that broke the formatting? Oo

grc

12:36

{while (condition) (code)}

Katenkyo

@grc One liner aren't always the best :)

grc

i = 0;
while (i < 5)-{
	line_1: console.log(i),
	line_2: i++,
}

^ built in line numbering

Katenkyo

Arf, guess i'll have to change my habits so ^^'

Quill

@grc nice troll

grc

:D

you could also use parentheses around the braces instead of the -

Quill

12:53

@grc gist.github.com/The-Quill/29c67d15901b0967d85a

@CᴏɴᴏʀO'Bʀɪᴇɴ gist.github.com/The-Quill/e7cb65ea043880dce0cd

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