The Nineteenth Byte

quartata

00:01

why popcon

mınxomaτ

@flawr I finished my implementation. As you can see, it works exceptionally well on real-world photos (and videos) (even better than many commercial variants I tested), but it does suffer from the low information content in the test images (apart from the 1bit images, those are rendered perfectly). I'll type up the answer tomorrow, as the explanation is rather complex :)

flawr

That looks nice, what kind of algorithm did you use?

Oh ok.

mınxomaτ

It's a hybrid algorithm (texture synthesis and a bunch of "intelligent" fill methods) that was invented at Cambridge Microsoft Research (afaik). I improved upon that, both speedwise and in terms of auto-adjustments. I'd say it's about 20% original ideas.

The main thing is that it accepts unlimited masks (masking by user-selected color) in any shape or form.

quartata

You know I'm kinda surprised there aren't any queue-based golfing languages

@mınxomaτ whoa that's nice

El'endia Starman

00:17

@quartata I wondered that some time ago.

quartata

hmm

El'endia Starman

One should be made, and called Q.

But anyway, I think there's a difficulty of sorts with queue-based languages.

phase

Does anyone know (or know where post on SE) anything about the ARM GPIO?

Is there a general hardware/software SE or should I just go on Programmers?

flawr

@El'endiaStarman What kind of difficulty?

I just thought about that and came to the conclusion that you'd just have to more or less "reorder" your programs but you could do about the same?

Lets make a heap based one=)

El'endia Starman

I'm not sure. It might just be a paradigm-shift kind of difficulty. Plus, it's harder to think through the program because any operations you want to do on values you just pushed on have to wait until whatever's on the queue already gets used up.

phase

00:32

Random tab in the middle of this file, where everything else uses the same format except with spaces

flawr

@El'endiaStarman It would be certainly impractical, right=)

El'endia Starman

@phase The line above also has tabs.

And line 64.

ETHproductions

@quartata What do you mean by queue-based?

El'endia Starman

And 71.

And 72 and 75...

Okay, I'll stop looking. :P

phase

even more reasons as to why they shouldn't write software

trichoplax

00:37

deque based language?

El'endia Starman

@ETHproductions Do you know a stack-based language?

phase

plant based language where you have to wait a week for your program to run

3

ETHproductions

@El'endiaStarman Yes

I mean, sort-of

I understand how stack-based languages work.

El'endia Starman

Okay, stacks are last in, first out and queues are last in, last out.

In both cases, you push stuff on the end. In stacks, you pop off the top, and in queues, you pop off the bottom/front.

ETHproductions

Ahh, that makes a lot of sense. Then it won't be much different then stack-based.

El'endia Starman

00:40

Well, actually, I do think it'd be significantly different.

Wow. Wrote the complete opposite of what I meant. :P

ETHproductions

haha

Yeah, I guess so, if operators operate on the same end as is output first

RikerW

@El'endiaStarman I can join the PPCG Minecraft server in a bit, wanna join too?

Wait, is the server down?

NVM.

phase

@RikerW ooo I'll get on later

RikerW

WOAH OVER 128 GOLD

Welp, don't leave a chest deep underwater on the bottom of a lake people.

ETHproductions

I'd love to play, but I can't right now

flawr

00:57

Some people need to sleep.

quartata

I was thinking about it because with traditional stacks (no swap, rotate, etc) an automata with two stacks can simulate a TM whereas only one queue is needed to simulate a TM

RikerW

@flawr well, 5 here...

Sorry.

flawr

2 here

quartata

then again I might as well do a one counter multiplicative machine :P

Actually is there an esolang like that? I know deadfish is basically a one counter additive machine

ETHproductions

dunno

quartata

01:03

a two counter one (which woud be TC iirc) would be cool

ETHproductions

I was thinking about making a stack-based esolang where there are only 10 operations: increment, decrement, swap top two, pop X and bring Xth item to top, duplicate, pop, input byte, output byte, compare top two items, and a loop.

phase

@ETHproductions Brainfuck has like 6 and it's turring complete, maybe you should aim for 4

ETHproductions

Then you can define an operator on each line leading up to the main program

quartata

Was trying to talk to myself and got ninjad

ETHproductions

@phase 8, and it'd really really hard to implement any one of these operators if it was removed

@quartata Yeah, that happens

quartata

01:10

Anyways I actually started work on such a language with 4 bit instructions but ran into some issues trying to make non trivial programs

ETHproductions

@CᴏɴᴏʀO'Bʀɪᴇɴ was doing a 6-instruction language, but he and I found about 4 more operators necessary to make it Turing-complete.

phase

just implement one operator that emulates busy beaver and bam

quartata

What were the original 6?

@phase haha

phase

implicit input/output would also help

quartata

Anyways I think I'll try to make a TC deadfish. I'll need an loop and two counters

ETHproductions

01:13

in PPCG Code Snippet Chat Bot, 23 hours ago, by Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

Which are: NAND TRUE FALSE JUMP OUT BIT

The conversation moved to here: chat.stackexchange.com/transcript/message/27207257#27207257

@phase And this language has implicit input as well

It now also has pop, dupe, and ~~loop~~ conditional

conditional combined with jump == loop

quartata

@ETHproductions yeah you need a loop or otherwise it cannot emulate partially recursive functions

ETHproductions

jsfiddle.net/kgtn0nd4/4

quartata

Really though you only need two instructions: instruction and next instruction in set

ETHproductions

| - NAND
# - push 1
~ - push 0
@ - pop 8 bits and make a byte out of them
^ - pop X, jump to instruction X
* - output
() - execute code inside if top != 0
$ - pop
: - duplicate

@quartata Yeah, that would make a good bit-based esolang

quartata

I think I might do that instead of a 4 bit stack based language.

ETHproductions

01:22

cat is (*~^)*

quartata

no matter how verbose it'll be it will still be golfy :p

@ETHproductions cool

ETHproductions

He had H,W! as well, let me find it

Oh duh, it's there when you load the page

Now, how would we do TM?

I think there's a bug that makes it impossible

quartata

(*)* right?

ETHproductions

No, 48 or 49 will always be on top of the stack, since input is in ASCII bytes

Now we need to figure out how to subtract 48 using only NAND....

@quartata NAND on bytes is 255-(x&y), right?

@CᴏɴᴏʀO'Bʀɪᴇɴ Bug fix: jsfiddle.net/kgtn0nd4/5

quartata

depends if it is signed or unsigned

ETHproductions

01:33

unsigned

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

Sorry I'm not here to talk. I'm busy today ^_^

Thanks @ETHproductions :D

ETHproductions

np

quartata

then yeah that is right

ETHproductions

I think this is TM:

##~~~~~#@|########@|(:########@|##~~####@|*):########@|##~~####@|*

You'll need the updated version I linked a couple minutes ago though

Yes, subtraction takes two byte-pushes and NAND operations :/ Oh well, this lang wasn't made to be a piece of cake!

RikerW

@phase you gonna come on?

If not I am leaving maybe, IDK

Anybdy else for PPCG Minecraft Server?

New Loophole Proposal

01:48

0

A: Loopholes that are forbidden by default

Abusing native number types to trivialize a problem It is common practice to restrict challenges to cases where input, output and/or intermediate values of the algorithm of choice fit into the language's native number type. At least for input and output, this is generally assumed even if not sta...

ETHproductions

Can I search deleted posts? I know of another example of ^ that, but I can't remember what question it's on and the regular search doesn't pull it up.

quartata

@ETHproductions you still have 6 instuctions you can implement and still fit in a 4 bit encoding. Maybe add and subtract should be added

@ETHproductions Mods can I think but not nornal users

ETHproductions

@quartata For Conor's language or my hypothetical stack-based language?

@quartata darn

quartata

the nand one

ETHproductions

OK

Oh, I remember the question now

quartata

01:55

I specifically had to make catalan numbers be "works up to n=19" to avoid boolfuck junk

ETHproductions

Question I can't find: count the number of 1's in a binary representation of a number

That had a boolf*** answer

quartata

Oh I know that one

I think it is called count the number of 1s in your languages integer type

RikerW

1

Q: compute number of 1 bits in a binary representation of a number

The goal is to write a program that returns number of 1 bits in a given number. examples 5 -> 2 1254 -> 6 56465 -> 8 goal the winner is the code which runs in minimum time limit, you can assume that normal int value in your language can handle any number (no matter how large) and ...

quartata

no not that one

ETHproductions

No, it was more descriptive

Dennis

01:59

5

A: Print the amount of ones in a binary number without using bitwise operators

Brainbool, 2 ,. The most reasonable interpretation, in my opinion (and what most of the answers use) of "highest number your language is able to handle" is "largest number your language natively supports". Brainbool is a brainfuck derivative that uses bits rather than bytes, and takes input an...

quartata

this one had a jelly answer try lookin that up

ETHproductions

@Dennis Thank you. that's what I was looking for.

Dennis

Search term popcount did the trick.

quartata

ah there we go

ETHproductions

popcount?

Dennis

02:01

Population count, i.e., number of 1s.

ETHproductions

Ah

You should add that answer to the loophole post.

quartata

also dear lord the number of snippet answer on that question

i think would run out of flags trying to flag them all

@Dennis the bf one and the lisp one are both invalid

The scheme one is not golfed

ETHproductions

Oh, I just remembered, I got on here an hour and a half ago to actually do something specific

:P

If you don't mind, I'm going to leave chat now

Dennis

@ETHproductions I was (desperately) trying to. (bloody DSL) It is done.

ETHproductions

Great, thanks!

Dennis

02:08

@quartata Those answers are from 2012 and 2011, so they predate our defaults for I/O.

Assuming that's what you meant.

RikerW

Bye. (to ETH)

quartata

Does it not apply retroactively?

RikerW

IDThink so.

quartata

also the shell one breaks the rules of the challenge (no base conversion)

Dennis

Applying that kind of rules retroactively would require revisiting thousands of answers every time community consensus changes about something. That's not at all practically (and not entirely fair).

RikerW

02:11

Okay, but the shell one should probably go.

quartata

fair enough

RikerW

After that this happened.

Dennis

And it went. To be fair, I wouldn't expect a restriction on base conversion in a challenge called Print the amount of ones in a binary number without using bitwise operators.

RikerW

quartata

I was kinda wondering why there were any snippet answers at all... clearly these were from the ancient times :P

@RikerW can you not see deleted answers?

RikerW

02:14

Nope.

I have like 450 rep.

Not 1k/2k.

quartata

oh I thought you had more

RikerW

Nope. :(

Not "Shell".

Dennis

@quartata Back then, you could have just downloaded the proper program from pastebin or post print "the amount of ones in a binary number without using bitwise operators".

RikerW

Also, the shell answer should have been bash?

quartata

it's 2k for deleted answers on beta sites iirc

@Dennis ah those were the days :p

RikerW

02:16

*/s

Doorknob

Back when Dennis was still a fractal thingy... :P

RikerW

Wat?

Dennis

@Doorknob @Dennis joined in December 2013.

RikerW

Dennis is a fractal?

Doorknob

@Dennis ... wow, really? o.o

RikerW

02:18

Dennis is a fractal? I though he was a paraguayan.

:P

Dennis

@Doorknob Yup. Code trolling lured me in.

RikerW

WHAT FRACTAL THINGY?

quartata

identicon

Dennis

Nope.

Doorknob

No, the other thing.

RikerW

02:20

Pics pls?

Dennis

^ my old avatar

quartata

oh right that thing

RikerW

Cool.

Dennis

I only changed that a few months ago, around the mod elections. I figured if my username is that common, I should have at least an easily recognizable avatar.

quartata

iirc you changed that around TPLQ

Hadn't made my account then but was stalking PPCG heavily

GamrCorps

02:23

^

same

quartata

even stalked chat

GamrCorps

that I did not do

quartata

I am a little disturbed by how much I stalked PPCG actually

maybe should see a psychologist

PhiNotPi

I'm a sertified armchair psychologist.

SAP for short.

Dennis

@quartata I was appointed on August 31, and I changed my profile pic on September 3. The PLQ started on August 17, so we're both right.

PhiNotPi

02:30

Pop quiz: when did I change my avatar?

Dennis

Never?

PhiNotPi

Correct!

Dennis

\o@

What did I win?

PhiNotPi

1 chat star

Dennis

Still better than exposure.

quartata

02:35

Wait wasn't \o@ the very first Jelly answer?

Dennis

It was. Sadly, the syntax has changed.

quartata

I cannot remember what it was to

Dennis

20

A: Cover up zeroes in a list

Jelly, non-competing 3 bytes This answer is non-competing, since it uses features that postdate the challenge. o@\ Try it online! How it works o Take the logical OR of its arguments. @ Reverse the argument order of the link to the left. \ Do a cumulative reduce, using the lin...

quartata

What do I win for recognizing it?

I'd like a puppy.

Dennis

No problem. Send me your mail address, SSN and CC number (for ID verification). I'll ship it right know.

^ not a scam

^^ real puppies

quartata

02:39

oh boy!

Real puppies are my favorite kind of puppy

5

My bank account is an old tube sock that fell behind the dryer

Can you verify my ID with that?

Dennis

I could, but I don't want to.

quartata

(not a stolen joke from Dilbert)

ETHproductions

@El' @Cᴏɴ I've updated the Crayon docs again, mainly about regexes this time: github.com/ETHproductions/Crayon/blob/master/docs/Regexes.md

El'endia Starman

sweet

ETHproductions

I may change the meta-character from @

Dennis

02:43

@ETH That what I call commitment. Even your pings are golfed.

ETHproductions

to ' probably

@Dennis Thanks, haha

quartata

don't use @ that will give you a severe disadvantage in nethack related challenges

Doorknob

Does @El' work?

yep

-1 not golfed enough :P

El'endia Starman

...

Dennis

@...

ETHproductions

02:44

@Doorknob Fixed

PhiNotPi

Did you know, that if you make a list of every possible chess game, taking into account every possible move for each player at every turn, that there will be more possible chess games than there are dollars in my bank account?

quartata

Er yes

ETHproductions

@PhiNotPi Maybe more chess games than all the dollars in the universe? :P

Doorknob

Pretty sure it's more than the number of atoms in the observable universe

Sp3000

Did you know, that if you make a list of every tic tac toe game, taking into account every possible move for each player at every turn, that there will be more possible tic tac toe games than there are dollars in my bank account?

quartata

02:46

The better question is are there more chess games than dollars in Donald Trump's bank account

ETHproductions

9! possible tic-tac-toe games (not counting early endings)

quartata

@Sp3000 haha

ETHproductions

== 362880

Dennis

Early endings count. Trust me.

PhiNotPi

Google says the exact number is 255,168.

Doorknob

02:46

Did you know, that if you make a list of every possible checkers game, taking into account every possible move for each player at every turn, that you'll get a pretty big number I guess idk

Sp3000

^^ What Phi said

If you take all drawn games, you'd still have more than my bank account

Dennis

Breaking news: Sp3000 has 255,167 dollars in the bank (possibly less)

Sp3000

Actually, my bank account is roughly the number of tic tac toe games that end on the fifth move :) (each player moving counting as one move)

(pretty broke)

quartata

Did you know that if you count all of Dennis's rep taking into account upvotes and downvotes that you get more than a whole lotta dough

Ampora

If anyone plays Hearthstone and wants to golf the number of turns it takes to get lethal for each class

Doorknob

02:49

@quartata I would totally exchange all my network rep for $1/rep point if I could. :P

Dennis

Who wouldn't?

I'd quit my day-time job and become a professional golfer.

quartata

What about 1¢/point?

Doorknob

That would give me... about $1,000.

quartata

not so worth it

Dennis

With the rep cap, that's only 2 dollars per site per day. Not even Jon Skeet could make a living that way.

Sp3000

02:52

But Jon Skeet could stop posting now and still get $2 per day for the rest of his life

(plus bounties)

Dennis

Still, 8.4k dollars sounds pretty cheap for 32.7k answers.

Almost thirty-three thousand answers. O.O And I thought I had an addiction...

ETHproductions

How old is SO? 6 years? 8 years?

A more important question is, when did Jon Skeet sign up?

Dennis

7 years, 4 months ago

JS~SO

grc

Did you know, that if you count the legal positions in Go, you get 20816819938197998469947863334486277028652245388453054842563945682092741961273801‌537852564845169851964390725991601562812854608988831442712971531931755773662039724‌7064840935

Dennis

That's a lot of Go positions.

grc

03:02

apparently google's AI is just starting to beat humans at Go

Dennis

Which humans? Beating me should be pretty easy, as I have no idea what Go is.

grc

s/humans/human champions/

so this is a bit outdated now

ETHproductions

But they're still working on Calvinball.

Dennis

> Because Mathematica itself does all the heavy lifting, this is a community wiki.

ಠ_ಠ

CW is not a rep waiver. (╯°□°）╯︵ ┻━┻

PhiNotPi

Programming languages are typically responsible for most of the heavy lifting on this site.

grc

03:07

we should make an account for Mathematica and let it post answers itself

ETHproductions

@El' Have you looked at the Encoding page for Crayon?

El'endia Starman

I glanced at it yesterday (and just now).

ETHproductions

I have some ideas for the visible substitutes for these chars (mostly arrows). I'll update it in a sec

Dennis

Crayon?

ETHproductions

My new language for ASCII-art challenges. I'm currently working on the spec. github.com/ETHproductions/Crayon

@El' @Cᴏɴ Updated: github.com/ETHproductions/Crayon/blob/master/docs/Encoding.md

Dennis

03:14

Oh, neat. Before I started with Jelly, I toyed with the idea of making an ASCII art language.

trichoplax

@Dennis I commented on the question following that one, and it turns out the author allows inpainting builtins so it doesn't even need to be Community Wiki. Some people just seem to have a CW reflex

feersum

I just found out that CodeForces sorts accepted solutions by length.

So we could totally play code golf on it.

ETHproductions

Oh shoot, I have like 20 notifications for the PPCG redesign project

trichoplax

@Dennis I mean "doesn't even need to be CW according to people who use it as a rep waiver". There's some argument for making it CW because two answerers were discussing collaborating, but even then I'd rather it not be CW.

Anonymous

Everyone should check out the TryItOnline chat bot if they haven't already. It runs code in chat. It's a little clunky at the moment, but it works!

Dennis

03:18

I don't think this should be a community wiki. — Dennis ♦ 1 min ago

trichoplax

If we upvote that comment enough maybe it will change back

Dennis

Can one unwiki one's own posts?

trichoplax

I've never wikied one so I can't check

ETHproductions

same

feersum

How is it offensive that someone makes their post Community Wiki?

confusde

trichoplax

03:20

I assume it's mod only as otherwise you could trick people into improving your post and then take the rep...

@feersum In this case there is nothing wrong with their answer and they should get the rep for it. The offensive situation is when someone posts knowing their answer is invalid, and tries to get around deletion by making it CW

Dennis

@feersum It's not offensive, but CW means this is a collaboration effort and you're free to edit it, not I don't want the rep.

trichoplax

It used to be incorrectly used for unabashed breaking of rules, like this

ETHproductions

looks through commit history, randomly finds one commit on its own branch

Anonymous

Hey @Dennis could you pull Seriously for TIO?

Dennis

@Mego Pulled.

Anonymous

03:33

@Dennis Thanks! I was wondering why Data wasn't executing the code correctly :P

ETHproductions

This seems to be the one problem with TIO: it has to be updated manually.

Doorknob

Ruby's OptionParser is just amazing.

PhiNotPi

It's never a bad time for some Bach: youtu.be/dYV3d-UVBKg?t=8m8s

ETHproductions

Anyone here heard of Walk Off The Earth?

Doorknob

@PhiNotPi oh shoot I've been Bachrolled

Alex A.

03:45

@ETHproductions Of course

ETHproductions

@AlexA. I'd never, until yesterday

Dennis

TIL that LTE is just as fast as 3G if your service provider caps the speed at 3 Mbps.

ETHproductions

They have some pretty awesome stuff

Alex A.

@Doorknob Well, you've heard of Roll Over Beethoven...

@Dennis .__.

Doorknob

@ETHproductions That's not too much of a problem. I presume @Dennis doesn't want to allow people to run arbitrary code on his servers (which they would be able to do if he automatically pulled new changes).

Dennis

03:46

^

ETHproductions

True.

And buggy versions would be uploaded anyway and TIO would break until the bug was fixed.

Alex A.

@Dennis No, a non-moderator user cannot remove the wiki

Dennis

What about a sporadic one?

Alex A.

ಠ_ಠ

trichoplax

That's the face Alex makes to show appreciation of pedantic word humour

3

Doorknob

03:50

A user can only remove CW if they cannot be parsed with a regex.

Alex A.

I cannot be parsed with regular expressions, only sporadic expressions.

ETHproductions

If I'm made of HTML, does that qualify me?

trichoplax

Regular HTML?

ETHproductions

No, sporadic HTML.

Doorknob

@AlexA. Sporadic expressions: Like regular expressions, but summon nasal demons if the time since the epoch is divisible by 10.

Alex A.

03:54

wtf are nasal demons

Calvin's Hobbies

boogers

2

Alex A.

@Calvin'sHobbies Okay thanks

Doorknob

@AlexA. catb.org/jargon/html/N/nasal-demons.html

Alex A.

@Doorknob o.c

ETHproductions

I hate to think what will happen to anyone who enters this room now and glances at the starboard

Alex A.

03:56

I love to think what will happen to anyone who enters this room now and glances at the starboard

Thomas Kwa

How do I wrap the whole stack in an array in CJam?

ETHproductions

] i think

Calvin's Hobbies

@ThomasKwa is the guinea pig

Doorknob

In GolfScript it's ]

ninja'd

Alex A.

@Calvin'sHobbies s/the/a/

@Calvin'sHobbies s/guinea pig/hampster/

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