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21:00
I was not expecting their scores to go as high as they are now...
(+27 for the question, +26 for the answer)
What question?=)
27
Q: Why does Python "preemptively" hang when trying to calculate a very large number?

El'endia StarmanI've asked this question before about killing a process that uses too much memory, and I've got most of a solution worked out. However, there is one problem: calculating massive numbers seems to be untouched by the method I'm trying to use. This code below is intended to put a 10 second CPU time...

People on SO love Python.
And hate Matlab^^
I was thinking about answering that when I noticed your two and a half self had answered it better than I was going to
21:02
(That wasn't meant to belittle the success you've had with that question and answer. Both are very nice, @El'endiaStarman.)
Those guys are cute:
I was going to point out the dis module and compare the output for py2 and 3
@El'endiaStarman Nice :) That seems to make sense, because if I recall you can access function constants from the function code...
@Sp3000 Ah? How?
@flawr Yes, very. :)
21:05
@muddyfish This guy did:
9
A: Are constant computations cached in Python?

tzamanFind out for yourself! The dis module is great for inspecting this sort of stuff: >>> from dis import dis >>> def div_by_3(x): ... return x * (1/3.) ... >>> dis(div_by_3) 2 0 LOAD_FAST 0 (x) 3 LOAD_CONST 1 (1) 6 LOAD_CONST...

I was about to post it when I saw that link
so I didn't as it wouldnt add anything new
def f(x):
    n = 10**10
    m = None
    print n, m

c = f.__code__
print c.co_consts
Outputs (None, 10, 10000000000L)
Ahh, neat.
None is always a constant in python bytecode even if it isn't technically needed
Yeah, I saw that elsewhere that small constants like None are always cached.
21:09
and all bytecode ends with return None if it doesn't return anything (even the main block)
Have you seen the crash where you can trick python into deallocating None?
It was a really neat trick using ctypes
and setting the no_references value to 0
Haha, no, I haven't seen that.
Had all the annoyances of deallocation from this CnR :/
Well... popcon, but in my mind it was a CnR :P
@KριτικσιΛίθος I'm not entirely sure it's what you're asking - I used that to modify menu items, not add them, and I lost the article that I used for it.
btw @El'endiaStarman re: musings... I don't really have any comments about it? Sorry
@Sp3000 I read that as "Popcorn"
21:14
4
A: Crash (i.e. cause the interpreter to stop working and force close) Python

FraxtilOne easy way to crash the interpreter is to trick it into deallocating None: import ctypes, sys (ctypes.c_char*4).from_address(id(None))[:] = '\0'*4 As a bonus, here's a clever way to segfault Python 2: import ctypes, struct, sys inner = () outer = (inner,) c_outer = (ctypes.c_char * sys.gets...

@VoteToSpam Who made this sock? ಠ_ಠ
@FlagAsSpam There's a VoteToSpam account? o_O
Link?
Also using @ won't ping them because the user hasn't been in chat
VoteToSpam, 192.168/16
381 2
@FlagAsSpam Member for 6 months!
21:16
I know, but that's a recent name change.
Ah, okay
REALLY recent. I answered one of his/her challenges a few days ago.
Can't remember what it was before.
ConfusedMr_C
btw @muddyfish, not sure if I've said before, but thanks for teaching me about function codes with that unusable language post of yours
Yeah, that was it.
21:17
Then it isn't a sock account, it's just that guy.
Thought it was a sock at first. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Not an unreasonable assumption given the name. :P
@Sp3000 Python's just that awesome
1
A: Golf you a quine for great good!

FlagAsSpamQuinePig, 3 Bytes I'm sorry, but without a valid answer on PPCG, this language feels... lonely. PIG The keyword PIG outputs the source code to a text file defined as a string before the keyword... And that's literally all this language can do. Esolangs are weird, man.

Randomly upvoted a few minutes ago.
I upvoted that.
21:19
Oh haaaay!
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
I go through old questions and give people rep. :P
@FlagAsSpam You should actually say the entry is non-competing, since the language was invented after the challenge was posted.
xD Well then. Thanks?
@ChrisJester-Young When was it made?
@FlagAsSpam The EsoLangs page for it was only created this year.
> This page was last modified on 20 April 2015, at 06:28.
21:21
@FlagAsSpam No prob!
@AlexA. I looked at the revision history to see when the earliest revision was.
Oh nice
@ChrisJester-Young Is it possible, given a Stack Exchange Data Explorer query ID, to programmatically download the results of that particular query? (I.e. without actually going to SEDE, executing the query, and clicking download results as csv)
@AlexA. SEDE has no API. It has specifically been rejected.
Oh, okay.
So if I want the results I have to go click download?
21:25
Yep, or find some way to use the SE API to do it.
Alright. Thanks :)
@CᴏɴᴏʀO'Bʀɪᴇɴ Why do they have a builtin for that...?
@SuperJedi224 IDK
I don't even know when one would use that
21:37
¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Make a challenge about it. :P Give it some use.
@isaacg Hello
Vitsy would still win.
@FlagAsSpam I will.
21:38
ಠ_ಠ
@Doorknob Have you come up with a challenge for today's main site spamming of high-quality challenges?
What is that?
Prompt N:e^(N)-1
Hmm. I don't have exp built in...
#fulfill all graduation requirements in 1 day
21:38
@SuperJedi224 -1
@AlexA. Forgot to do that D:
0$Tn;1- :(
@SuperJedi224 e^(Ans)-1
uhh... I'll make one now
@Doorknob ono
@Doorknob ok
21:39
I guess I'll post one I have in the Sandbox...
@CᴏɴᴏʀO'Bʀɪᴇɴ I forgot that that was a permissible input method
+1
Calvin isn't awake yet, I don't think
@FlagAsSpam m get math property of next character mhis Math.expm1. Applies on input j
@El'endiaStarman We should coordinate with @Calvin'sHobbies and post them all at the same time. :D
@Doorknob At almost 2pm? o_O
21:40
Is he in a different time zone? He's not in chat, at least.
He's in my time zone.
Oh, then he's just not here
@CᴏɴᴏʀO'Bʀɪᴇɴ ಠ_ಠ
Lazing it up.
@FlagAsSpam Hey, I'm adding all the Math properties, and that's one of the functions.
21:41
I've been struggling with repeats and segnos and codas in MuseScore today trying to transcribe a piece of music onto my computer. Maybe I'll make a challenge about that :P
I'm thinking I'll post this one:
3
A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

El'endia StarmanPythagoras' Other Leg code-golf Pythagoras had his leg blown up in the war. It had to be amputated, and though he nearly died, he pulled through and made a full recovery. Now, after a year of walking with crutches, he gets the privilege of getting a prosthetic leg! Thing is, though, there are s...

I wonder what JS engine I use...
Good god that's dark
> though this base must be consistent
Darn.
21:43
@AlexA. haha
I was just going to output 10 until I read that.
Okay, I'll write something up real quick so I can contribute to the temporary 10 q/day effort. :P
We're starting at 0:00 UTC?
mini-challenge Return the negative absolute value of the input.
@CᴏɴᴏʀO'Bʀɪᴇɴ Golfscript, 0 bytes: . Only works for negative inputs.
21:46
@Doorknob ....
Hey, it's half of what you asked! :P
You can multiply my score by 2.
@Doorknob I'm greedy.
To account for the other half.
2^12/^0r-
(~-.-)~ Compression language.
I'm really posting mini-challenges in which the answer is 3 bytes in Jolf.
^_^
21:49
Remove the decimal portion of a number, choose a random number from 0 to an input inclusive
XD
0, chosen by fair dice roll...
@CᴏɴᴏʀO'Bʀɪᴇɴ Are these two different challenges?
X(kc)D
@El'endiaStarman yeah
d1%- for the first, nh for the second.
Seriously.
Anonymous
@El'endiaStarman Hi
21:51
Instruction page for Minkolang: h Pops n and pushes a random integer between 0 and n, inclusive.
@El'endiaStarman h?
Oh.
Anonymous
,≈ for the first, ,uJ for the second
Anonymous
Err
Anonymous
Yeah that's right nvm
21:52
@Mego Is that two or three bytes for the first?
Anonymous
@CᴏɴᴏʀO'Bʀɪᴇɴ Two, cp437 master race
@Mego Is that the windows encoding? :D
Anonymous
IBM
@El'endiaStarman Does this output as well?
21:53
Print forty two: mQ
@CᴏɴᴏʀO'Bʀɪᴇɴ R for the latter. ;)
@FlagAsSpam noice
@FlagAsSpam None of the code snippets I've posted output.
@CᴏɴᴏʀO'Bʀɪᴇɴ That's the same length as just 42...
@Doorknob I know, but 42 is two commands.
21:54
@CᴏɴᴏʀO'Bʀɪᴇɴ N_, NR
Two bytes each
@CᴏɴᴏʀO'Bʀɪᴇɴ D1M- for the former. Minkolang and Vitsy are doing exactly the same thing here.
@FlagAsSpam They often are. XD
I'll be reassigning y to int() today, in fact.
I should make Vinkolang.
Anonymous
:42
21:57
20.2K characters in Jolf \o/
Anonymous
I'm trying to add Python to a Java/C++ polyglot and it's hard
I need ABS and int().
@CᴏɴᴏʀO'Bʀɪᴇɴ *Vitsolang
3
@CᴏɴᴏʀO'Bʀɪᴇɴ johndcook.com/blog/2010/06/07/…
2
Yay Google :P
21:59
@Doorknob damn, I was just getting that link to post it...
@Doorknob :O
I've added all the JS Math commands to jolf :D
Oh god I have to/want to add operator overloading to them all
/o\
I just thought that was trying to do Bollywood.
/o.\ /.o\ /o\
@FlagAsSpam ?
Output the powerset of an input set.
22:08
Ugh, I hate that show. ._.
@El'endiaStarman Hey, I can see my house!
4
22:21
Is it possible to make a readable code-golfing language?
Nope
Yes, with tokens
2
@AlexA. Why not?
Just define 0: tokena or something
If you can read it, it isn't golfed enough.
22:24
@CᴏɴᴏʀO'Bʀɪᴇɴ Methinks you need tougher mini challenges, or the golfiest answers you get all depend on whether there's a builtin for it
They say nothing about the general golfability of the language
@AlexA. You sure about that?
That seems a bit generalized.
At least 2000% sure.
@AlexA. Challenge accepted.
22:27
Challenge: Make a readable golfing language.
We should have a language restriction to languages that PPCG users have created.
Like, a tag for it.
Not a general restriction.
Give me a year, gonna get Guido to join PPCG...
22:30
@CᴏɴᴏʀO'Bʀɪᴇɴ Guido van Rossum, the dude who made Python
(or whatever his name is)
@AlexA. Oh! Cool.
sometimes I wish I could take all the development prowess around here and redirect it to some project for a few days :)
@Sparr You can ask... :3
@Sparr Put it to a use other than making unreadable languages?
\o/ I broke the 1k+ line barrier!
22:31
I'm currently thinking about some old PBEM games I used to play, deep broad open ended strategy games. The biggest hurdle to running such a game today is just writing the code to handle user interaction and order processing. I'd love to write just the game logic for such a game in a modern environment.
@FlagAsSpam So there would be challenges which are restricted to languages created by users? -1 for unnecessary language restriction.
When I look at how quickly some folks here turn out KotH arbiters for brand new games/languages/contests, I wish I could do that for something longer running.
@AlexA. Not unnecessary - CG is a community, like any other. We should support the language builders.
I'm tempted to throw together something slightly more readable that compiles to one of my golfing languages. Should I do that?
@FlagAsSpam Yeah, by letting them use their languages. Not by posting challenges in which only some languages are allowed. We tell people all the time that language restrictions on challenges are highly discouraged. I always downvote challenges with such restrictions.
22:33
> You may not use HQ9+
;)
ಠ_ಠ
@CᴏɴᴏʀO'Bʀɪᴇɴ ....barrier? Pfft, it's like a flood gate. An open one.
@CᴏɴᴏʀO'Bʀɪᴇɴ Or MetaGolfScript X.
It's often easier to write controllers for KotHs if you limit them to just a couple of languages though
@El'endiaStarman Psh
22:34
...it's hard to come up with the opposite of a barrier, but specifically in the sense that it pulls instead of blocks...
If I make a KotH, it will use a new language that no one has heard about.
@El'endiaStarman Oh, I see.
@Sparr Why not put together a sketch of your idea and we'll gather a group of people and do it on GitHub?
XD
How long is Minkolang's code?
@CᴏɴᴏʀO'Bʀɪᴇɴ Vitsy. Because class interaction.
@AlexA. I keep contemplating trying to do just that
22:35
@FlagAsSpam Oh, right.
@CᴏɴᴏʀO'Bʀɪᴇɴ 1525 lines at this moment.
@AlexA. I'd help! cc @Sparr
@SuperJedi224 "KotHs" is a very unfortunate abbreviation to choose.
@El'endiaStarman Nice! Bytes?
I am planning on adding a lot of commands today. One more big push.
22:36
@Sparr Let me know if your contemplations become a reality. :)
@CᴏɴᴏʀO'Bʀɪᴇɴ 71,195.
So far.
@mınxomaτ Why?
@El'endiaStarman Nice!
@mınxomaτ Oh.
22:36
You use your lines better than I
I have 20k bytes, and 1k lines.
You have 70k bytes, and 1.5k lines
...AH...lol. :P
Is it on GitHub? I forgot.
Vitsy has 700-800ish lines. ;)
22:37
Yes.
I probably starred it.
Yup, there it is.
> Fixed eval AGAIN.
he he
ಠ_ಠ
[sigh]
Not you too...
22:38
What does forking do, again?
Flag As Spam?
2
@FlagAsSpam 27.7k bytes, ~.75k lines.
@ಠ_ಠ c:
Wow, yeah, my code is dense. :P
@CᴏɴᴏʀO'Bʀɪᴇɴ Makes a copy of the repository.
@El'endiaStarman And pushing?
22:40
...updates the code in the repository?
So, I can push a forked repo to the original?
I have surprisingly little code in Vitsy. :D
@CᴏɴᴏʀO'Bʀɪᴇɴ I think that'd actually be a pull request. As in, you ask me to pull the code from your fork.
@El'endiaStarman Oh.
Ohhhh
I never could git that.
Haha, I didn't get it either until I asked a couple weeks ago.
22:42
git gud son
2
git dem golfs bro
Hey, look another git gub pun on the starboard. :P
@AlexA. u looken 4 starz?
> git gub
2
Wut?
22:45
git rub
@El'endiaStarman there are so many examples o____o
@FlagAsSpam Well his/her profile is empty, but his/her identicon looks suspiciously like a creeper: github.com/gub
I guess I'll put those examples in a folder...
22:46
NO
I'm doing that myself
XD
I am not letting you waste my time.
Er...
o-o
Moving examples ≠ wasting time
^^"
@FlagAsSpam *moving
22:47
Wasting time not moving examples = wasting time
I've already made many example .mkl files.
Big ol' Quine.
@FlagAsSpam I did, actually!
22:49
@El'endiaStarman \o/
@FlagAsSpam I was gonna make one in Javascript, but I decided, "nah."
TBH when I joined this community, I was like "Okay, once I win a challenge, I'll be good, and I'll find another community." A year later, I still haven't won, and I never want to leave. <3
^
Except for me, it's a month.
Dammit, @Dennis. ಠ_ಠ Always making me lose.
22:54
@FlagAsSpam :(
@El'endiaStarman have you watched wood planing championships?
I have not.
@El'endiaStarman whoa
@El'endiaStarman Dang.
22:58
silence ensues

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