The Nineteenth Byte

Vɪʜᴀɴ

00:23

:(

Anonymous

I can fix that, what am I downvoting?

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

@Vɪʜᴀɴ What's that?

Vɪʜᴀɴ

I was hoping to reach a hundred with no -1s. i guess thats a bit of a stretch

Anonymous

There's always downvote trolls, but luckily they quickly run out of rep with which to downvote

Thomas Kwa

00:52

@Mego If the troll is adept at harvesting rep (including camping here and posting answers like codegolf.stackexchange.com/a/59357/39328 first), they could easily reach the vote cap daily without contributing actual golfing effort to the site.

quartata

@VTCAKAVSMoACE That is terrifying.

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

OH @quartata I just realized your avatar was inverted

quartata

@CᴏɴᴏʀO'Bʀɪᴇɴ Yes

Maximum spoop

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

I like it ^_^

quartata

So the Simplex interpreter is written in JS?

If that's the case I think I'll try to make it an online interpreter

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

01:05

@quartata Yeah, it is. I've got an ish interpreter source code right now. It doesn't implement many of the new commands and contains some old commands. (As you can see on the GitHub page

El'endia Starman

How is an interpreter written in JavaScript not already an online interpreter? :P

4

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

@El'endiaStarman There is a JavaScript shell and JavaScript for windows base.

quartata

@El'endiaStarman node.js

Or various other things

At any rate this interpreter appears to use console.log so it needs work to be a true "online" interpreter

@CᴏɴᴏʀO'Bʀɪᴇɴ Can I steal your CSS :3

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

@quartata For the simplex page? Feel free ^_^

And I do CSS design, please contact me if I can spruce up something.

Sp3000

@Calvin'sHobbies Oh wow, that looks nice

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

01:09

A sample of my web design ^_^

El'endia Starman

Sweet.

PhiNotPi

A sample of my web design: koth-phinotpi.rhcloud.com/kothlist.txt

El'endia Starman

@PhiNotPi ....a text file?

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

XD

@El'endiaStarman Thanks

Vɪʜᴀɴ

My interpreter design at best: vihanserver.tk/p/Unnamed :|

El'endia Starman

01:12

While we're showing off our web design skills, here's my best: Starman Innovations.

Unless we're talking interpreters, in which case...Minkolang Interpreter.

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

@El'endiaStarman Nice!

El'endia Starman

Thanks!

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

@Vɪʜᴀɴ That website doesn't exist.

El'endia Starman

Huh, it worked for me.

PhiNotPi

^

Vɪʜᴀɴ

01:13

@CᴏɴᴏʀO'Bʀɪᴇɴ wait what

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

@Vɪʜᴀɴ

Vɪʜᴀɴ

uh oh

El'endia Starman

Chrome here, no problem for me. I'll try it in Firefox.

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

ಠ_ಠ

My Chrome doesn't work either.

El'endia Starman

Works on Firefox for me too.

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

01:16

I live in the USA, is that a problem?

Vɪʜᴀɴ

hm, works for me in firefox.

El'endia Starman

@CᴏɴᴏʀO'Bʀɪᴇɴ Well, I do too, that can't be it.

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

@El'endiaStarman Hm. Virginia? Verizon? Windows 8?

El'endia Starman

@CᴏɴᴏʀO'Bʀɪᴇɴ Kentucky, Windows 10, and...I don't actually know who the ISP here is.

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

@El'endiaStarman Huhhh.

El'endia Starman

01:19

Ah, Time Warner Cable seems to be the ISP.

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

Hmmm... What is your ISP @Vɪʜᴀɴ

Vɪʜᴀɴ

I use Comcast's lovely Xfinity

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

o-o I need better internets

El'endia Starman

@CᴏɴᴏʀO'Bʀɪᴇɴ Take out the www..

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

@El'endiaStarman I get this: http://www.vihanserver.tk/p/Unnamed

El'endia Starman

01:22

Weird. It's this for me: http://vihanserver.tk/p/Unnamed/.

Vɪʜᴀɴ

It should work with www. Might be a DNS thing?

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

¯\_(-_-)_/¯

El'endia Starman

I did have a problem some time ago with starmaninnovations.com not working and needing to be www.starmaninnovations.com. Maybe that's related.

Though considering this is the opposite problem, I'm not so sure.

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

le sigh

Vɪʜᴀɴ

Does 76.102.163.231/p/Unnamed work?

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

01:26

@Vɪʜᴀɴ Yes, it does!

El'endia Starman

weeird

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

I've given up on the interwebs.

Vɪʜᴀɴ

I should probably switch domain name providers. or at least to a more common tld

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

^

Goodnight!

El'endia Starman

G'night!

PhiNotPi

02:20

Today I wrote objected-oriented Perl.

Dennis

Are you OK?

2

PhiNotPi

One word: bless

Alex A.

@PhiNotPi TempleOS?

PhiNotPi

@AlexA. In Perl, bless is the magical command that takes stuff and turns it into an object.

Alex A.

I know

Dennis

02:23

Why bless?

Alex A.

Because Perl was originally based on TempleOS.

Dennis

Dammit, I'm trying to add an explanation to my latest J answer, but I have no idea how or why it works. :/

Alex A.

Hahaha

That's how I feel about every J answer.

Dennis

I've used my initial approach to APL programming.

Alex A.

You've quickly gotten quite knowledgeable in APL.

I'm sure the same will happen with J soon.

PhiNotPi

02:25

I honestly have no clue why they called it bless

Dennis

@AlexA. Nah, I was right all along.

6

A: Illustrate the square of a binomial

APL, 10-3 = 7 Inspired* by this answer where the arguments are replicated and then used in a multiplication table: ⊖∘.×⍨(/⍨⎕) ⎕ Issues a prompt (⎕:) and evaluates any expression entered then. (For security reasons, this doesn't work on TryAPL but it does work on NGN/APL.) /⍨ Replicates its ar...

Alex A.

@PhiNotPi Because when everyone got a hardon for OOP, the Perl devs got salty and they were like, "Ooooh the blessed objects. We can bless them into objects. We'll use the command bless."

PhiNotPi

The whole concept of bless {}, 'literallyWhateverYouWant' to create a literallyWhateverYouWant object just seems kinda strange, but awesome(?)

jk it's just strange

Alex A.

bless is about as useful as the less module from CPAN.

Dennis

I still haven't heard back from Dyalog. :/

Alex A.

02:30

Why did you contact them?

Dennis

Student license.

Alex A.

How long ago did you submit the request?

Mine was approved literally the next day.

Dennis

Last Friday, me thinks.

Alex A.

I don't think they process requests over the weekend so you'll probably hear tomorrow.

Dennis

Hopefully.

I remember talking to you one time about whether Dyalog prints output without assigning to ⎕, but I don't remember your answer.

Alex A.

02:32

I don't remember my answer either.

PhiNotPi

I just blessed a subroutine.

2

Alex A.

PopeNotPi

quartata

bless can do all sort of stuff

Doorknob

It can make genocide more effective!

(out of context Nethack references ftw)

Alex A.

At least 15% more effective.

quartata

02:34

Very handy indeed

Alex A.

Has many hands.

quartata

@AlexA. why do you hate on perl so much?

Alex A.

Because I've used it fairly extensively for work and dislike it. I think there are far superior alternatives.

Dennis

What's with all the weird avatars by the way?

Alex A.

Halloween

quartata

02:36

^

Alex A.

You should change yours too, Dennis.

Doorknob

@AlexA. You didn't spookify yours :P

Dennis

Halloween doesn't really mean anything to me.

Alex A.

Halloween

Noun: Halloween ‎(plural Halloweens)

The eve of All Hallows' Day; 31st October; celebrated (mostly in the United Kingdom, Canada, United States and Ireland) by children going door-to-door in costume and demanding candy with menaces.
Halloween f ‎(plural Halloweens)
Halloween m ‎(plural Halloweens)

Dennis

I know what it is, it just doesn't make me feel in a particular way this time of the year.

You can't watch 20+ seasons of The Simpsons without knowing about Halloween. :P

quartata

02:38

It used to mean something until it got corrupted by candy companies

Alex A.

I think it began (according to a Pagan friend of mine) as a Christian mockery of the Pagans.

quartata

Now its all about terrible costumes and HFCS

Doorknob

> A: "make it grey"
B: "it's gray"
A: "colonial scum"

(context: A is one of my friends who is British. :P)

Dennis

Seriously, what is it with you and your HCFS? :P

Use sugar.

Alex A.

Who?

I don't eat HFCS.

Dennis

02:40

You United Stateslers. :P

Alex A.

We don't all eat HFCS. I am a counterexample.

quartata

You probably do. Its in a lot of things.

Alex A.

I religiously check ingredients. (It's required for other dietary restrictions.)

Dennis

From the small sample of stuff that gets imported from over there, it looks like it's pretty much in every sweet product you can think of.

quartata

Ooh.

Alex A.

02:42

It pretty much is, except for the small brand stuff that doesn't get exported.

quartata

Its funny too because we are pretty much the only country that uses hfcs so much. Even coca cola is made with cane sugar in Mexico.

Alex A.

IIRC HFCS is banned in a lot of countries.

Doorknob

/me is still trying to figure out what HFCS is

PhiNotPi

$bizarre = bless sub{print"bye!\n"}, whatever;
*{whatever::run} = sub { &{(shift)} };
$bizarre->run();

Dennis

@quartata It's made with cane sugar pretty much all over the world.

Alex A.

02:46

@Doorknob High fructose corn syrup

Dennis

Doorknob

ah

Alex A.

@Dennis Not in America! How wonderful!

Dennis

Tell that to the Mexicans. :P

Alex A.

It's okay though because Coca-Cola tastes like crap anyway.

quartata

02:47

@Doorknob nasty ass version of corn syrup made with a lot of enzymes to make it sweet highly concentrated and cheap

Dennis

I don't like regular Coca-Cola. Cola-Cola Zero tastes pretty good IMHO.

Alex A.

Never had it. What sweetens it?

quartata

@PhiNotPi > multi paradigm

Alex A.

I mostly drink water, coffee, and booze.

quartata

Aspartame I believe it is called

PhiNotPi

02:49

@quartata It's great, isn't it? :)

quartata

Also nasty

Dennis

@quartata And Acesulfame K.

Alex A.

I don't do aspartame or Splenda either.

quartata

aced my biochem final a few years back just by studying a diet coke can 10/10

Alex A.

Are you serious?

It's one of those things that could be true

quartata

02:52

Fun fact Splenda was initially intended to be an insecticide

Alex A.

Damn, son.

quartata

@AlexA. no

PhiNotPi

implying that it's no longer an insecticide?

Alex A.

Long term effects of Spenda included brain tumors and spontaneous abortion in animal trials.

quartata

All diet sweeteners were made by accident. Seriously look them up

El'endia Starman

02:54

@AlexA. I've heard it started as a Christian thing, as "All Hallowed Eve". I think it had to do with honoring all of the saints (in Roman Catholicism).

quartata

Some funny stories there

in the sweeteners not halloween

Alex A.

I read that the clinical trials which got Splenda approved by the FDA had primary endpoints like tooth decay with short term monitoring for adverse events.

Basically, how not to conduct a clinical trial 101.

Or rather, how to conduct one so that you avoid having to determine whether your product is dangerous.

Dennis

03:07

@Zgarb You know J, right? Would you mind if I bother you with something?

Alex A.

He does know J and he doesn't mind being bothered by you.

Dennis

Assuming that alex-is-right, why does this work?

9

A: Iterated partial sums

J, 5 bytes +/\^: +/\ is cumulative sum, ^: is power. Try it online on J.js.

In the documentation, the conjunction ^: is always followed by a noun or a verb...

Alex A.

Finally someone admits that alex-is-right. I'm so happy I could cry.

Dennis

chat.stackexchange.com/search?q=alex-is-right&room=240

Alex A.

Oct 5 at 20:58, by Optimizer

only-alex-stars-alex-is-right-tags

:(

Oh damn, son. @NinjaBearMonkey looks hella spoopy.

NinjaBearMonkey

03:14

@AlexA. I shamelessly jumped on the bandwagon

Alex A.

No shame needed!

This is one spooky bandwagon.

Doorknob

spoopy*

Alex A.

Doorknob spooped everywhere.

Zgarb

@Dennis I have to admit that I don't know J well enough to answer that.

Magic? :P

Alex A.

He's lying. He knows J.

zgarb-knows-j

Dennis

03:21

@Zgarb That was my first guess too. Thanks anyway. :)

Zgarb

@Dennis Aha: "A two-element train of a conjunction with a noun or a verb produces an adverb."

Alex A.

one-needs-to-understand-grammar-to-understand-j

Dennis

Oh, so x (+/\^:) y gets parsed as (x (+/\^:)) y. That explains a lot!

Thanks, @Zgarb.

Zgarb

Well, more like (+/\^:x) y, but something like that, yeah.

See fourth paragraph of jsoftware.com/help/dictionary/dictf.htm

Now to sleep ->

Dennis

What I meant is that it's not actually dyadic. x (+/\^:) returns a monadic verb(?) that is applied to y.

Good night!

Alex A.

03:26

@Zgarb Sweet dreams <3

PhiNotPi

Juggling martial arts final

►

3

Alex A.

Oceano - Ending Intellect (Death Metal Cat Drum Cover)

►

El'endia Starman

@PhiNotPi That's really cool and interesting.

Alex A.

03:47

@El'endiaStarman Incorrect. It's juggling.

DLosc

@AlexA. {x: x is really cool and interesting} and {x: x is juggling} are not disjoint sets.

3

Alex A.

@DLosc is_troll(Alex) returns true.

3

GamrCorps

04:30

Just got the review queue privilege from 20 rep on an answer from weeks ago!

Alex A.

Nice

GamrCorps

Took me 5 minutes to find the review button...

Alex A.

Our review queue is pretty quiet. But I ask that you please reject edits that golf posts and do not vote to delete valid but short answers.

GamrCorps

Got it!

Alex A.

AKA use your privilege wisely

I'm sure you will though. :)

GamrCorps

04:32

:)

New Sandboxed Posts

04:47

0

A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

An Assortment of Sorting Believe it or not, we do not yet have a code golf challenge for simply sorting an array of integers. While it may not be the most interesting challenge, particularly for "usual" languages, it can be nontrivial in many languages. Rosetta code features lists by sorting al...

Alex A.

@NewSandboxedPosts cc @Dennis

Dennis

> Believe it or not, we do not yet have a code golf challenge for simply sorting an array of integers.

We don't? o_O

Looks like you're right. The challenge I was thinking about sorts strings...

I'll read it tomorrow. I'm too sleepy right now.

Alex A.

Executive summary: Get an array, sort it using an algorithm of your choice, print it.

El'endia Starman

....[hurriedly implements swap in Minkolang]

...actually, no, I can do insertion sort.

.......[facepalm].......right. I already have sort implemented as s.

Alex A.

:)

El'endia Starman

05:00

(xnd1+)xs(N).

Alex A.

Is it always the same sorting algorithm?

El'endia Starman

Yes.

Alex A.

Nice. Which one?

El'endia Starman

It uses Python's list.sort().

Alex A.

What algorithm does that use?

I thought that used a different algorithm depending on the size of the list, akin to Julia's sort. Is that true?

El'endia Starman

05:01

I don't quite remember the name. It's one of the best algorithms though, because it will take into account already-sorted data.

I don't think so.

Timsort

Timsort is a hybrid stable sorting algorithm, derived from merge sort and insertion sort, designed to perform well on many kinds of real-world data. It was invented by Tim Peters in 2002 for use in the Python programming language. The algorithm finds subsets of the data that are already ordered, and uses that knowledge to sort the remainder more efficiently. This is done by merging an identified subset, called a run, with existing runs until certain criteria are fulfilled. Timsort has been Python's standard sorting algorithm since version 2.3. It is also used to sort arrays of non-primitive type...

Alex A.

OIC

That's neat

El'endia Starman

yeah

I'm gonna go ahead and do insertion sort anyway. :P

Alex A.

Might as well. For this challenge you can submit multiple posts with the same language but different algorithms.

El'endia Starman

yeah, that's what I'll do

Alex A.

For example you could do Minkolang with Timsort, Minkolang with insertion sort, Minkolang with bead sort, etc.

Nice

I'm looking forward to it. :)

El'endia Starman

05:04

Well, rather, I was thinking I would just put them all in the same post.

With the shortest way, of course, being Timsort.

Alex A.

That's a good point, that won't be allowed. One post per language/algorithm combination.

El'endia Starman

ah, okay then

Alex A.

I'll edit that in

El'endia Starman

And before you post the challenge, I'm going to implement two features that would be very useful to have... :P

...actually, three. It would be nice to have c copy an item from the stack without moving it. Very nice...

Alex A.

Since it's a catalog, you can use stuff made after the challenge is posted.

(That's also specified in the post.)

El'endia Starman

05:08

Yeah, but still. :P

Alex A.

It'll be in the sandbox until there's a general consensus that it's solid so you have some time.

Do you have any feedback on the spec or on the questions I asked in it?

El'endia Starman

I like leaving the input format unrestricted. Might want to add a stipulation that it can't already be sorted. :P

I would indeed prefer allowing any deterministic algorithm.

Alex A.

You mean that the submission can't assume the input to already be sorted?

El'endia Starman

Something of that nature, yes.

Although I suppose that would be standard loophole.

Alex A.

Yeah but it doesn't hurt to mention it anyway.

I really appreciate your feedback, btw. Thanks :)

El'endia Starman

05:22

Welcome. :)

Alex A.

Oh, my girlfriend showed me a meme the other day and it made me think of you. I can't seem to find it at the moment, but it was a picture of Bernie Sanders and it said, "Give Bernie the Chaos Emeralds! Only he can defeat the Eggman."

El'endia Starman

haha, cool.

Alex A.

My thought process: "That's a Sonic reference. I know a guy who likes Sonic."

El'endia Starman

hehe, indeed

Ever played Super Smash Bros Brawl?

Alex A.

Nope

The last Super Smash Bros game I played was on N64.

i.e. the first one

El'endia Starman

05:31

ahh

(Melee is da best!)

Alex A.

What console was that for? I may have played that.

El'endia Starman

Gamecube.

Alex A.

Okay, I think I played that.

El'endia Starman

Anyway, Sonic is a playable character in Brawl, and his Final Smash is...Super Sonic. He's an alright character when normal, but super good when, uh, super.

People start getting annoyed by the third time or so that I knock them out with Super Sonic...

Alex A.

I don't know what Super Sonic is. (I've never had a Sega console nor have I ever really been into Sonic.)

El'endia Starman

05:33

......AH. OKAY THEN.

Alex A.

HAHA

El'endia Starman

A woefully short video, but this should give you an idea of what it's like in Brawl: YouTube.

Alex A.

Are you familiar with the Sonic Dreams Collection?

El'endia Starman

Mmm, don't think so.

Alex A.

wip.warpdoor.com/2015/08/10/hedgehog-exposed-arcane-kids

Sp3000

05:44

@NewSandboxedPosts @MartinBüttner said something about possibly having separate catalogues for different sorting algorithms

feersum

I don't think that makes sense.

Alex A.

@AlexA. Alternatively, one could have a single challenge, and answer header include both a language and the sorting algorithm used. Then the leaderboard would be able to sort by both of those. — Martin Büttner ♦ 13 hours ago

feersum

If you have a language where everything has a huge time complexity, it makes no sense to implement some "efficient" sorting algorithm.

IMO only the inputs and outputs should matter, not the inner workings.

Alex A.

So you think just sort, irrespective of the algorithm?

feersum

Yes.

Alex A.

05:47

I had originally thought that as well but Martin had the idea to separate it by algorithm.

feersum

In some languages it could be subjective whether a certain algorithm is even being used.

Alex A.

Can you give an example?

feersum

Hmm... I don't have a really encyclopedic esolang knowledge.

Alex A.

Haha I don't expect you to, I just assumed you had an example to accompany that statement.

feersum

Another point is that if a builtin sort is used, it is often implementation-defined what the actual algorithm is.

Alex A.

05:51

What do you mean implementation-defined?

feersum

Different language implementations can use different algorithms.

El'endia Starman

Much better demonstration of Super Sonic in Brawl. (Well, really, Wii U, but the two games are pretty similar from what I can tell.)

@AlexA. Interesting.

Alex A.

@feersum As long as you say what implementation you're using and have a reference stating the algorithm it uses, I don't see why that would be an issue.

El'endia Starman

Also, Super Sonic first appeared in Sonic the Hedgehog 2 on the Genesis. This is what it looks like.

Peter Taylor

There may be a bug - I'm worried about the discrepancy over 5x4 - but I believe they're correct. Also

6x5: 1342656 solution(s)

Transcript for