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12:05 AM
My baby is finally safe:
A: The Programming Language Quiz

Dennis~English revised, 36 bytes Echo "Hello," and " World!". End."!" This answer contains protection against SPSS, Foo and Tiny. sighs Four attempts and another answer in the same language, but my submission is finally safe! Explanation ~English is designed to look like plain text, which is why ...

2 hours later…
1:41 AM
@trichoplax Thanks for the up-vote! No, I'm not going to be finished for a while yet... :)
2:14 AM
I had an idea for a . I'm headed to work now but I'd love some feedback to check out later :)
A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

undergroundmonorailTriple Triad Tournament! king-of-the-hill (anything in italic parenthesis is a note for the sandbox) About Triple Triad Triple Triad is a card game from the Final Fantasy series. I've never played a FF game that included it, though, so I'm only familiar with the version in the Pokémon fangam...

A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

undergroundmonorailTriple Triad Tournament! king-of-the-hill (anything in italic parenthesis is a note for the sandbox) About Triple Triad Triple Triad is a card game from the Final Fantasy series. I've never played a FF game that included it, though, so I'm only familiar with the version in the Pokémon fangam...

3 hours later…
5:41 AM
@Sp3000 Looks like you're going to win the robbers' challenge. Either the cops are getting better or I got worse at cracking...
There's still time... I wouldn't be so sure
I even missed the Haskell cop. After all Haskell put me through...
Well, it would only be fair. If it wasn't for Foo, the gap would be larger.
It it helps, any additional cracks I get (+Zucchini) are either immediately recognisable or they're on the list :P
(Disappointed about Finite Groups though - I had the interpreter all set up but I couldn't manage to add it to the list)
Actually, ditto for Wordy too :P
I dodged a bullet then. :)
Well since things are almost over, here's a hint: If your interpreter is in Haskell, Java, Racket, Ocaml (basically not Ruby/Perl/Python/C/C++), it's probably not on the list :P
Damnit Racket
5:50 AM
Racket gave me no problems. But Haskell...
I don't know why, but a lot of Haskell ones worked manually, just not with the script :/
Choose your side
def function():
^ DC enthusiast
@Sp3000 Except Mascarpone.
6:03 AM
To be fair, for your one I was trying hard enough that I was testing it on every interpreter I could find manually first :P
(Also, 500 sound good for Seed? :D with explanations, of course)
Speeking of difficult languages, I determined to find a reasonably short ShaFuck answer.
Is this just for the catalogue?
(I'm not sure ShaFuck can be "short", considering the multiple of 1024 restriction)
Not short short, but a significant improvement over the trivial BF times 2048 solution.
BF times 1024 should be doable.
95 kB for Hello World...
6:45 AM
Do the links in this answer work for everybody?
A: "Hello, World!"

Dennis23.dezsy, 52 bytes 17,13,72,101,108,108,111,44,32,87,111,114,108,100,33 17,13 prints the 13 integers that follow as characters. Try it online here. (Don't forget to replace the example with the above source code.) The above code is equivalent to the following 23.ixsy code (1174 bytes): xxxx...

They work fine form my desktop, but on my phone, I get a 404 from the Wayback Machine.
I'm not sure how that's even possible...
@Sp3000 Yes. I've just finished the searcher, and fired it up.
1 hour later…
7:57 AM
@Dennis they work here, maybe your phone doesn't like "http://" in the middle of the url..
for a minute I was wondering why you revealed the language so soon ^_^
8:14 AM
"9 hours later..." D: ... I wonder what the last time was when we had such a long silence in here
1 hour later…
9:36 AM
(っ・∀・)っ Silence breaker
I think I've figured out how to make use of simple loops in 123
9:58 AM
well, you can basically loop a segment x by writing 33x33. the catch is that before the segment you need to be over a 0, to continue the loop you need to be over a 1 and to leave it you need to be over a 0 again. that's a bit tricky to set up, but I've found at least one case where it saves 2 bytes in the hello world.
the problem is that it costs 4 bytes, so you need quite considerable repetition for it to save anything
you can probably also loop it with 3x33 or 33x3 if you start or end on an index less than 0 but I haven't looked into that yet
1 hour later…
11:02 AM
edited... managed to shave off 15 bytes with loops
hi all
A wild Lembik appeared.
@PeterTaylor I forgot to ask. Do you think there is a bug in your answer codegolf.stackexchange.com/questions/49218/… wrt the 5/3 case?
@MartinBüttner :)
I know you have missed making fun of my challenges :)
"I'm fairly certain that one could find a couple more loops that I've overlooked. But I also think that it's possible to find a significantly shorter solution that isn't based on anything a human would come up with." Interesting... might give is a shot some day but it'd be really far down my backlog :P
I should make a new one to be made fun of soon
11:07 AM
have I ever made fun of your challenges? :(
"Take an integer n and output a uniform random nxn matrix of bits. The program should take exponentially longer for increasing n. Scoring is 1 if you use C++ or Nim, 0.5 if you use Java or PyPy, 0 otherwise."
@MartinBüttner only in a nice way. People tease me for making questions that are related to binary matrices
@Sp3000 nim! We need more nim, is what I say :)
I'm learning... slowly :P Too bad all my tests have been on code-golf though
I do worry that nim will be yet another wonderful programming language that never really takes off
only to be left with C++ and Java again
Maybe if they had better builtins, for starters :P
11:13 AM
hmmmm, 5 could be a problem. esolangs seems to have only two languages. one can only print digits and the other seems to be unimplemented
Solutions: 1) Implement 2) Make a new one :P
@Sp3000 they rae very responsive if you wanted to post that concern on their forum I am sure they would be grateful
what is wrong with their builtins?
Last time I tried to sort a string I had to do about 3 imports (strutils, sequtils, algorithm) only to find out that it's shorter and easier to just not use the builtin sort
Might be a case of not knowing the language well enough though
@Sp3000 I would implement 5-logic if the spec didn't seem a bit incomplete (and missing I/O commands)
Hmm... damn. Move on to 6 I guess?
11:19 AM
or design a complete language based on 5-logic, because it seems quite interesting
I don't think there's 7 and 8 anyway :P
the only language with 6 is also unimplemented
@Calvin'sHobbies you should add your own 99 to esolangs. the 99 on esolangs is lame
@Sp3000 oh yeah, fair enough
Oh, there's 8. No 7s though
11:26 AM
on rosetta?
hm, there's 96 on esolangs but I don't think there's much to golf beyond the hello world that's in the article
@Sp3000 seems like an ideal question for SO or their forums !
11:57 AM
A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

Beta DecayComparing two numbers code-golf Challenge Given two integers a and b as input, you must write a program which outputs if a>b, a==b or a<b. Outputs If a>b output A is greater than B If a==b output A is equal to B If a<b output A is less than B Where you replace A and B for their inte...

12:13 PM
A: "Hello, World!"

Martin Büttner99, 283 bytes 999 9 9 99 99999999 999 9 99 99 99999 9 999 9 99 99 99 999 999999 99 99 99 9999999 9999 999 9 99 99 99 9999999 9 999 9 999 9 999 9 99 99 99 999999 9 999999 9 99 9999 99 99999 999 999999 999 9 99 99 9999999 9999 9 999 9 99 99 99 999999 9 99 99 99 999999 999 9 99 99 99999 9999999 9 9...

@Calvin'sHobbies ^ <3
I wonder if I could do shorter if I sacrificed the 1 for 0 or didn't have a 0 at all, because the 111 is actually quite useful
That's beautiful :D
"question eligible for bounty in 31 seconds" :D
What are you going to bounty? :P
I'd like to put out a bounty for Wierd (although I'll probably just announce it in a comment like you did)... my problem is that a HW with correct spelling already exists, and I don't want to give 500 rep to someone who just posts that and manages to shave off a byte by simple shortening of one wire or so
2 hours later…
2:01 PM
I solved a problem in pb that was actually kind of hard (not for normal languages, but for pb absolutely)
I meant to link to the answer but I guess this also works
2:22 PM
Q: Is the pizza fair?

orlpThis question is inspired by, and is the inverse of this one. Dennis (E), Doorknob (D), Martin (M) and Chris (C) have ordered a pizza. The rectangular pizza is divided into square pieces, each marked with their intended eater. Write a program or function that given a pizza like such: DDDDDDDDD...

@orlp test cases...
especially falsy ones
@MartinBüttner added
also CDEFM
unless we can assume that won't happen
@MartinBüttner not a valid input
"The input will always be a rectangular pizza consisting of 0 or more of each letter."
ah okay
could you put that before the output instead of it being the last thing in the spec?
2:37 PM
@MartinBüttner done
3:00 PM
@Doorknob everyone knows the only fair pizza is OOOOOOOOO
@orlp I guess you could say a doorknob is kind of O-shaped
@Doorknob but >> O << rlp is a better fit
Well, if Dennis is E, then you should be R, which makes me O. >:D
maybe I should just leech rep this way
1. take popular code golf
2. invert it
3. ???
4. profit
"Is the string zigzagified?"
"Is the string hello world?"
Q: Dead code elimination

CaridorcDead code sits there doing nothing, staring at us knowing it will never be executed... but today we can take revenge. Specification The input will be a multiline string. Each line may either be an assignment or an expression . Assignment An assignment is of the form <name> = number where nam...

"Add dead code"
3:11 PM
hi @orlp
what did you think of your newish empty convex hole answer?
the one by @ricochet1k
@Lembik I don't understand this part
"Filter out all points clockwise of the current pair, since they would make the polygon concave."
I don't know what it means to be clockwise of a pair
hmm.. maybe ask?
probably those that require a right-turn?
(which only makes sense if the pair is ordered, of course. I haven't read the post)
@MartinBüttner it's not clear what direction you go along a pair is it?
@MartinBüttner snap :)
3:41 PM
@Lembik People shouldn't be teasing you for your challenges. BMO (Binary Matrix Obsession) is a serious problem, and not something to joke about.
@RetoKoradi :)
As I always say, where would CS be without BO at least?
the matrix part is just a particular flavor
Actually, I'll take binary matrix challenges over Hello World challenges.
I'll go pour some cold water over the burn.
@orlp Why is an empty pizza invalid?
I like your inverse question better, because I can answer it with my 2D language hehe
3:59 PM
is ~English revised an eligible language for the language quiz even though it doesn't have a main article?
if it is ok, is it only because it is an improvement of the main article language?
4:18 PM
I am getting annoyed because my program is printing the correct answer right away
It should have to check over 10^120 paths first.
@feersum Oops, the empty pizza should be valid.
Oh wait, there was no reason to backtrack on an assertion which proved true... makes sense.
4:39 PM
@randomra I'd say ~English revised doesn't have an Esolang article in the same fashion Python 2 doesn't have a Wikipedia article. It's essentially version 2.0, which the author called revised because it resembles a natural language.
Empty pizza? That's not fair for anybody. :(
A: Can we have an SE blog for this site?

abby hairboatIf per-site blogs are ever coming back, it won't be for a long time. We love the enthusiasm, and we still think new ongoing blogs would be super cool, but site blogs are just not anywhere near the front of the line for resources right now. It'll be 6-8 something... but it definitely isn't "weeks"...

^ Thoughts on creating a Medium publication for PPCG?
4:57 PM
Blogging is hard work
5:13 PM
@Doorknob Thoughts on what kind of posts we would put there?
hm, I kind of want to add an answer to Showcase your Language for Labyrinth, but since I already have the ridiculously popular Mathematica answer I'm a bit hesitant :/
5:31 PM
@Doorknob Do you know if any of the other SE sites have already experimented with medium?
1 hour later…
6:38 PM
@trichoplax Worldbuilding is doing it. I'm not sure if any others are.
@MartinBüttner Thoughts in general—would it be a good idea? What would we write about? Would anyone be interested in contributing? etc.
no I was actually asking a question back :P
Thoughts on what kind of thoughts we should be thinking of?
@MartinBüttner Oh, heh. We could write about golfing languages, interesting golfing techniques, fun programming puzzles / challenges that wouldn't necessarily be as good of a fit for the main site (because there's only one right answer), stuff like that.
@MartinBüttner have you seen the CG news?
D: no I haven't
sweet! :D
6:47 PM
now I feel bad for slowing down in activity ^^ (well, I was travelling...)
@MartinBüttner It needed a variety of people anyway - I'm guessing it's the one offs that made the difference in the end
@Doorknob That's good to know. If we start a conversation here then we can keep an eye on theirs to see what to remember/avoid
I think a relaxed schedule would be best for a blog - if we commit to once a month and then miss one it seems a failure, but if we just have a post now and then when there's a reason to it will always seem positive
@Doorknob hm, yeah sounds all good to me
7:38 PM
well, I went ahead with the showcase post... I guess the votes will show whether that was a good idea:
A: Showcase your language one vote at a time [experimental challenge]

Martin BüttnerLabyrinth Labyrinth is my new two-dimensional programming language. I'm unreasonably proud of how it turned out, so I figured this would be a good place to introduce it and maybe popularise it a bit. Factoid Labyrinth is a 2D stack-based language without any control flow commands. Instead, con...

7:54 PM
@MartinBüttner Last I checked, two people (myself included of course) thought it was a good idea. ;)
@MartinBüttner The votes speak - you have some updating to do :P
(3 now)
I'm on it... :P
This has fallen dead... Should I accept an answer and award the bounty?
ugh, rep cap at 195... how I hate unupvotes :D
serial voting reversal?
7:57 PM
no, an actual unupvote
(Kidding of course but that is unfortunate for you)
I think there's something weird about how rep caps are displayed and counted though so today might count for Legendary anyway
@MartinBüttner Maybe they found something more important they realised they needed that upvote for...
@MartinBüttner You can get an authoritative count by switching the "next badge" thing on your profile to Legendary
@Doorknob yeah I know, but I don't remember what it said yesterday :P
7:59 PM
A rep cap seems unfair
Couldn't you at least refund the rep not gained the next day?
@BetaDecay Fallen dead with 22 answers?? I'd leave the bounty for the rest of the 5 days myself, to give the question and it's many answers more publicity.
Very important ^
(Requires sound)
@trichoplax Okay. I suppose it's a bank holiday weekend so a lot of the Brits will be offline
@BetaDecay I think the idea is to reward people for consistent good posts, rather than let a spike in popularity give more rep to someone with just one excellent post, than to someone with many perfectly good but not super-popular posts
Yes, plus it's a weekend everywhere
Do we have a Data.SE query to tell the main locations of our users?
8:04 PM
Only if they've shared them
Or haven't provided silly answers
select "Earth"
@BetaDecay I have mentioned my location when asked here, but it isn't on my profile.
Well there's probably enough people to cancel out the fake locations
@trichoplax Where are you locate
@Doorknob False for a few people here
Lower left of the UK
8:05 PM
@Ale Haha I guess mine probably applies
@trichoplax False. You're in space.
Oh sorry
Yes technically I live in the same place as Beta Decay
Wales? Or space?
8:07 PM
Almost both
Is South Wales the lower left?
Space Wales, like Star Trek IV: The Voyage Home. (Space whales)
I'm a few miles East of Wales, and a few miles down from space.
Oh wow, I never realised how low down Wales was :P
(Google "the one with the whales" -- the top result is for Star Trek 4. XD)
8:09 PM
@trichoplax Hm?
@AlexA. That's not in the UK...
It's a little West of Wales, not East :P
I thought birds were good at magnetic navigation :D
So, countryside, farmland or city?
8:13 PM
A little of each - a nice compromise
@trichoplax I'm bad at left, right, and geography.
Sounds nice. Snowdonia's nice but it's pretty far away from any worthwhile cities
@AlexA. Me too. Amongst other things
@BetaDecay I'm guessing you don't have a 24 hour supermarket...
@trichoplax Hm?
@trichoplax I think the closest is Queensferry Tesco
Which is around half an hour away
8:19 PM
As it turns out, everyone in Snowdonia is actually a skilled hunter-gatherer. There is no need for markets, be them super or otherwise.
@AlexA. Hey - right country. Getting closer...
@trichoplax Haha. It's the little victories that count. Like getting right and left sorted out correctly.
"No, your other left"
looks up
I'm really happy because Computer Graphics is going to graduate next week :)
8:23 PM
@trichoplax Country or county?
@BetaDecay Only country lol
This doesn't need to be a guessing game if anyone wants to ask - I've just been responding to @AlexA.'s random hill posts
Oh haha. Cheshire?
@trichoplax /me asks
What language is that?
8:25 PM
@trichoplax glares at Computer Graphics
@AlexA. Graduating from private to public - they are still behind you so relax :P
It's been like an hour and it graduates?!
Oh haha nm
Maybe I should have used a different word lol
Haha so where do you live?
8:27 PM
Just outside Bristol
to the kind upvoters on the Labyrinth showcase: I have delivered snippets for your upvotes ;)
Bloody hell we were miles off :D
For a small country Wales does have a fairly long border...
I really need to work on keeping my explanations shorter :/
Took me forever to scroll down to your Labyrinth examples, even sorted by active, because some inconsiderate someone has pinned a really long Mathematica answer to the top :P
8:30 PM
see what I mean? :D
I'd add Fourier but I don't have the willpower to keep track of each post and update it :P
Indeed. I think one of the most useful questions I could ask on most of my sandbox posts is "How can I golf this question wording?"
@AlexA. oops :)
(this is totally Dennis's fault though)
@BetaDecay Go with "succinct"
8:35 PM
@MartinBüttner :D
I should have added: Or haven't provided technically incorrect answers. (I don't live in Seattle, I live in Redmond, a suburb of Seattle.)
There were insufficient trees in the city so I moved.
Speaking of trees, a storm blew through the area yesterday. It downed a bunch of trees, killing two people and leaving half a million without power.
@AlexA. Yay, Redmond :D
8:56 PM
I tried editing the labyrinth post down a bit... it didn't get much shorter, but I think the text is distributed better now
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