The Nineteenth Byte

Sp3000

00:18

@MartinBüttner What about a case like a game with a programming easter egg, where the game is on Wikipedia? Does the language itself have to be the one that's documented?

Dennis

01:09

@Sp3000 Sounds like you have something sinister planned. :P

Sp3000

No, just recalling that time I had to download an FPS (Unvanquished?) for a previous CnR because apparently the language was a console (debug? developer?) on the main screen of the game

Alex A.

01:41

I'm addicted to this Hello World quiz game.

ETHproductions

@AlexA. Never seen that before, but I got 1400 on my first try with my basic language knowledge (I haven't actually learned anything but Haxe/AS3 and Javascript, and a little Java). I think I may be addicted too....

Alex A.

4900 is the best I've gotten.

ETHproductions

@AlexA. Wow, that's pretty good....

Alex A.

I like programming languages.

ETHproductions

"Your score is 100!" LOL, I must have gotten lucky the first time.

FiM++, Shakespeare, and BF are just too easy...

Alex A.

02:01

Nice, 7400.

Highest possible is 7500.

What whaaaaat

#thuglife

ETHproductions

02:24

Awesome!

Alex A.

@BrainSteel Have you done the hello world quiz?

BrainSteel

I tried it many moons ago, it was fun :D I think, on my best run, I got ~1500-ish.

Alex A.

Pretty good :)

ETHproductions

I was doing something else a little while ago, and all of a sudden I thought, "Wouldn't it be funny if the game had a snippet in HQ9+?" And just now I found it... LOL

Alex A.

Haha

That was my first time seeing FiM++. Got it by process of elimination.

ETHproductions

02:31

Unforgettable, though, once you get it right

Alex A.

Yes

ETHproductions

Man, I've never even heard of half of these languages...

BrainSteel

I can't tell the difference between various Javascript derivatives and I have very little knowledge of Ruby/Python/Perl, unfortunately.

ETHproductions

Is there actually a snippet in Chef? I haven't seen one yet...

Alex A.

Yes there is

ETHproductions

02:32

"Hello World Cake with Chocolate Sauce", or another recipe?

Nvm, I'll find it myself

I keep getting confused between the various Java and C descendants...

Alex A.

Groovy looks like Java but it doesn't have parens around print.

BrainSteel

While I may suck at the Hello World quiz, my submission to Martin's challenge will be cool! I hope, anyway.

ETHproductions

Ah, there's Chef :)

Alex A.

@BrainSteel What language? :D

ETHproductions

@AlexA. Thanks for the Groovy tip, just ran across that

BrainSteel

02:36

@AlexA. That's the fun part! You know how I only know one language... :P

Alex A.

Well you also learned Matlab recently.

BrainSteel

Ah, yes, that's true. I'm using a language I've never used here, though (mostly because it would be super obvious)

Alex A.

Hmmmmmm

BrainSteel

Though, if I do it right, it should be pretty clever. Not clever enough to win, but I think people will enjoy it :D It's taking me a long time to write, though.

Alex A.

I'll enjoy it.

BrainSteel

02:45

I hope so ;) It's certainly going to take the position of "Worst code Dr. Brian Steele has ever conceived"

ETHproductions

I'm working on my own esoteric stack-based language.

BrainSteel

Ooooo?

ETHproductions

It's called 7, and it's entirely based on numbers.

I mean, the stack can only contain numbers.

BrainSteel

Is the code all numbers?

ETHproductions

That would be awesome, but no

My shortest "Hello World!" program is 45 chars long, so it's got aways to go.

If anyone's curious, that program is: 4**++o/++d*no++doo:+do:/+no---*+ro+dro--o/++o

BrainSteel

02:49

Is it meant to be particularly golfy?

ETHproductions

Not really, just fun/challenging to golf.

I was hoping it would be good for golfing, but as it turns out, it's terrible ATM.

BrainSteel

I want to pronounce that code as "od no doo do no ro drooo." Very sing-song-y.

ETHproductions

I only have like the 20% most basic commands implemented, so it might turn out better than it looks right now.

LOL

'Foo' outputs 15 twice ;)

The thing that makes 7 unique is that you can only explicitly state a number at the very beginning of the program.

BrainSteel

Oh? What do you mean?

ETHproductions

All of the operations (+, -, *, /, etc.) are either made on the top two numbers on the stack, or between the top number and a 'base' number.

This base number is (by default) 7, but you can choose a custom 'base' at the beginning of the program.

BrainSteel

02:55

Interesting :D

ETHproductions

Exactly :)

I'll upload the interpreter and docs somewhere after I get a few more commands working.

BrainSteel

Cool! You'll have to put a link in chat for us to look at.

ETHproductions

Will do!

I'm going to bed now; cya folks tomorrow!

Alex A.

Bye!

I'm also working on a language (half-assedly).

Alex A.

03:21

@BrainSteel Are you C only or do you dabble in C++?

New Main Posts

1

Q: Prefix Tree Traversal

White a program that takes in (via stdin or command line) a string with the recursive form PREFIX[SUFFIXES] where PREFIX may be any string of lowercase letters (a-z), including the empty string, and SUFFIXES may be any sequence of strings with the recursive form PREFIX[SUFFIXES] concatenated...

1

Q: Barcodegolf: Generate a number's UPC

Just about every store nowadays uses Universal Product Code (UPC) barcodes to simplify the checking out process. If the name doesn't mean anything to you, you will surely recognize what they look like: Format The most common system is UPC-A, which uses 12 digits to represent each specific pro...

code-golf graphical-output

Alex A.

03:40

@Calvin'sHobbies Did you install a new MC mod?

Calvin's Hobbies

no

@AlexA. minecraft.gamepedia.com/Beacon#Powers

Alex A.

Bacon

Martin Büttner

07:22

@Dennis yeah, I always mouse-wheel-click them. I guess I could add target="_blank" or what it's called.

@Sp3000 yeah I think it's fairer if the language has to be documented

Peter Taylor

08:04

@BetaDecay The same as Dennis, with the additional observation that you need to fix revisions so that the criteria don't change over time.

Sp3000

08:16

@MartinBüttner Would it be a good idea if you specified that the language itself needs to be documented? I'm a bit paranoid of that loophole (considering the case I mentioned), although I'm not sure if it'll technically rule out things like TIS-100 (for which technically the game has an article, but not the language)

Martin Büttner

TIS is ruled out by the free interpreter/compiler thing

changed "choices" to "languages"

Sp3000

Well I mean that sort of thing. Think Manufactoria or LogicBox (rules out by other methods, but it's hard coming up with something that fits off the top of my head)

Martin Büttner

Quincunx's Manufactoria should be fair game (if it can write characters to STDOUT)

I think if the game is just the language, and that game has an article documenting the language, and the code can be written in the form of source files and is freely available, that's probably fine.

Sp3000

Hmm k. That makes things a bit interesting then (not that I can think of any examples atm)

Alternative scoring idea: Most languages in which the submission provably works, codegolf tiebreaker

But cracking still takes 1

(Not sure if that'll just unnecessarily complicate things, and most submissions will just be one language)

Martin Büttner

08:33

hm, interesting idea, but I'd probably prefer the simplicity of code golf

Sp3000

Hmm actually code-golf is probably fine. More incentive for shorter code, harder to obfuscate

Yeah, that

Martin Büttner

suggestions for colour-coding the "time left" column? I'm thinking three colours: one for "7 days have past, cop can make it safe", one for "1 day left" and one for "more than 1 day left".

I guess I could also compute a gradual hue as those 7 days pass

Sp3000

If not gradient, then one for posted in the past 24 hours might be useful if you want to look at new ones

(But I guess you could also sort by oldest)

Martin Büttner

08:49

that will be the default sort in the snippet as well

Sp3000

Ah k, then the ones you have are probably fine

Martin Büttner

then the question is just should it go from red to green or green to red

Sp3000

Green = safe probably?

I'm kind of thinking red = in danger of being cracked, but of course this is from the cop's perspective

Martin Büttner

well from the robbers' point of view it's "crap, it could be safe any time now, I better get moving!"

Sp3000

How about black to greyed out :P

Just as an "unavailable/done" indication

Martin Büttner

08:59

well it's not unavailable yet, right?

Sp3000

As in safe = greyed out? What do you mean?

Martin Büttner

well it's not automatically safe when the 7 days pass

it's only safe once the cop reveals the language

Sp3000

... ah

Martin Büttner

there will be a separate list for safe submissions

Sp3000

Then maybe which ever order's more beneficial to which side finds the snippet more useful? Robbers maybe?

brb a few hours, gl with the snippet :)

Martin Büttner

09:08

thanks

Beta Decay

09:32

@Dennis The Wikipedia links

Optimizer

09:56

3

Martin Büttner

10:13

could people add some more dummy answers to meta.codegolf.stackexchange.com/q/5701/8478?

ideally with repeated robbers as well

feel free to post answers with invalid formats as well

Optimizer

snippet throws error "ReferenceError: NUMBER_REG is not defined"

Martin Büttner

I know

it's not finished yet

but I'm pretty much done with scraping the data, so I can already test the important bits.

Martin Büttner

10:37

okay, time formatting done

@Sp3000 I'm using a gradient from green to yellow now, which skips ahead to read once the time reaches 0.

Martin Büttner

11:36

aaaaand IP ban...

New Sandboxed Posts

0

A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

(Possible deadlines?) The robber and the bank (Bank managers) (Based off 'Two makes all the difference') A group of robbers has decided to break into a bank, but one of the members leaked the information to the bank. To stop the robbers from getting any money, they have decided to change the c...

Sp3000

12:09

@MartinBüttner Sounds nice. Also, excuse the messing about :)

Martin Büttner

please continue messing about :P ... I can't test anything at the moment though because IP ban :/

Sp3000

How long does it last?

Optimizer

@MartinBüttner restart modem?

Martin Büttner

@Optimizer might be worth a shot, but I'm not the only person using the internet connection here :D

@Sp3000 ~3 hours or so

also wtf, you can insert underscores into integer literals in ruby o.O

Optimizer

@MartinBüttner are you in a dorm,/

1_2 is not a number.

Martin Büttner

12:12

nope

@Optimizer it is, in ruby

Optimizer

of course.

Sp3000

Damn, can't actually test the snippet itself on my phone. Oh well, back soon.

Martin Büttner

looks like the reset worked

Optimizer

of couse it works

unless you have a static IP connection (which is super expensive), a reset has almost 100% chance of changing your IP

Peter Taylor

@MartinBüttner <censored> moderators. Can't take 'em anywhere.

Martin Büttner

12:26

:)

sweet, this works now:

Override header: Python, 42 bytes, cracked by jimmy23013. — Martin Büttner ♦ 4 mins ago

@Sp3000 can you try overriding some random post?

or someone else...

ProgramFOX

Override header: CJam, 10 bytes, cracked by Alex A. — ProgramFOX 10 secs ago

Martin Büttner

thanks

ideally, it shouldn't work

looks like it doesn't. nice :)

ProgramFOX

:D

If I understand correctly, the override should only work when the format is incorrect? Or only when the question OP uses it?

Martin Büttner

only when I use it (the user ID is configurable if someone else ever wants to reuse my snippet)

ProgramFOX

I see.

Martin Büttner

12:36

I just wanted to reduce the potential for trolling

Optimizer

trolls? here?

Martin Büttner

okay, the snippet is essentially done. the only thing I can think of to add is an option to sort the open submissions by size instead, but I'm no longer convinced it's sufficiently useful to be worth the trouble.

Optimizer

Someone tried really hard to get so many 7 on this answer meta.codegolf.stackexchange.com/a/5690/31414

7 downvotes and 7 upvotes on each comment

Martin Büttner

@ProgramFOX the override comment is also really just a last resort. if someone gets the format wrong I'll just edit their post, but if they refuse to put a correct header in and keep rolling back or something, I can still salvage the leaderboard with such a comment.

BrainSteel

@AlexA. Oooo, new language? I dabbled in C++ for a while. I have used the basics of OOP, namespaces, operator overloading, cin/cout etc. I don't know much of anything about the newer standard libraries or anything that involves angle brackets, though ;P

Martin Büttner

12:50

hmmm, Retina still doesn't have an esolangs page

Sp3000

Neither does CJam :P

nvm it does

... a stub

Martin Büttner

well, it links to the repo so that's fine

Element does

Clip does

Ostrich doesn't

Sp3000

JAGL doesn't, none of the 2D ones do from memory, Joe doesn't (I think?)

Martin Büttner

rs doesn't

ugh, the language list on esolangs is not complete

Sp3000

Yeah, that too

aditsu

13:00

load average: 42.07, 54.70, 54.59

Martin Büttner

context?

aditsu

my laptop froze for a pretty long time, I was compiling stuff with too many things open :p

Optimizer

4

Everyone knows the answer is C

Sp3000

>> rate at which work is done

E: Horsing around

aditsu

13:16

damn, it's doing it again

Peter Taylor

I'm finding that Windows Defender's anti-malware has an annoying habit of using a lot of the disk transfer capacity when I'm trying to do a big build.

Martin Büttner

@Sp3000 thanks for reminding me, I wanted to add a "your answer has to fit into an SE post" clause...

Sp3000

Ahaha okay, no Unary then :P

TreFox

What is the deal with programming languages with very inappropriate syntax? Are they allowed?

Martin Büttner

I really wonder if anyone will manage to get a safe answer in a popular language (and how long it will take until the first answer is safe).

16

A: What should our policy on insults, vulgarity, profanity, and other possibly offensive material be?

No, that's not why I deleted it. That's why a particular answer was flagged, but one answer with possibly-offensive verbiage was the least of the problems here. I'll let the question speak for itself: Shortest, simplest code that prints an unexpected obscenity I thought this would be fun...

TreFox

13:31

That thread more talks about offensive material such as swear words and hate, I mean something like a programming language based off of 50 shades of grey, where the source code won't be offensive to anyone, but it is pretty innapropriate

Basically my question in a nutshell:
If I including "Bulging man meat" in an answer, will I get flagged?

Sp3000

Somehow I doubt a "popular" language will work - surely there'll be someone who will try their favourite language cos "why not" :P

Martin Büttner

"won't be offensive to anyone" --> you'd be surprised what some people are offended by.

TreFox

Why did my rep just suddenly change to show it was 600 in chat?

Martin Büttner

that's your network wide rep

TreFox

How did I just get like 500 rep...

Martin Büttner

13:32

and it's only shown if you post a large enough batch of messages at once

TreFox

Oh thats why

Martin Büttner

@Sp3000 you might be able to get away with it if you make use of some version-specific compiler quirk (not of the current version).

Sp3000

So... I could have an answer that only worked in PopularLang 0.01 alpha-- ?

Peter Taylor

@MartinBüttner Good point. The spec should prohibit compiler flags.

Martin Büttner

@PeterTaylor you could just use an old compiler, right?

aditsu

13:36

cc1plus, why you wanna take over 1GB ram? T_T

Martin Büttner

but yes, compiler flags should be prohibited anyway (I'm not even sure how you'd mention them without giving away what language you're using).

Peter Taylor

I'm thinking of things like -Dfoo=entireprogram

Martin Büttner

ah yes, definitely. "You must not assume a REPL environment, existing boilerplate code, or non-standard compiler/interpreter flags."

@Sp3000 provided that compiler/interpreter is still available, I don't see why not.

Sp3000

Interesting...

Martin Büttner

we usually allow that, right?

I think I've seen Pyth answers in old versions

Peter Taylor

13:46

This answer and this tip are all I can find.

Python 2 vs Python 3 is definitely ok, but allowing dependency on a bug which was only present in a couple of commits buried in the revision history seems a bit unfair.

It's hard to draw a clean line, though.

Martin Büttner

14:34

@PeterTaylor if you come up with anything, let me know

Martin Büttner

15:23

does anyone have comments for this?

0

A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

Convert a Point of the Compass to Degrees code-golf I came up with this challenge indepedently, but it turns out to be the inverse to this challenge by Doorknob. As I really like his spec, I decided to steal large parts of instead of cooking up my own explanations. The Challenge Given the abb...

TreFox

I think someone has already posted the same challenge, not sure though

Martin Büttner

@TreFox check the link at the beginning. Doorknob posted the inverse challenge 1.5 years ago.

TreFox

Ah, didn't see that. Thanks.
I don't really have anything else, I think it is formatted and described well, and ready to be posted.

When writing a function as an answer, do we assume that our rng has already been seeded or do we have to seed it?

Martin Büttner

15:41

you have to seed it.

(if you need it to be seeded)

Dennis

For a moment, I thought that was about the compass question.

Looking good, by the way.

Martin Büttner

@Dennis I'm very much looking forward to what you come up with for that one ;)

Dennis

@MartinBüttner Do we have a policy/ethical guideline for writing posts for questions that are still sandboxed?

Martin Büttner

@Dennis Some people object. I don't.

it's actually the best way to uncover any hidden ambiguities in the spec.

posted

New Main Posts

0

Q: Convert a Point of the Compass to Degrees

I came up with this challenge indepedently, but it turns out to be the inverse to this challenge by Doorknob. As I really like his spec, I decided to steal large parts of instead of cooking up my own explanations. The Challenge Given the abbreviation of one of the 32 points on the compass, prin...

code-golf

Martin Büttner

15:53

that was quick

Dennis

@MartinBüttner Never thought about it that way. That seems more important than a pregolfing advantage.

Martin Büttner

o.O when I slowly scroll past the compass image, the black circle in the centre appears larger

New Sandboxed Posts

0

A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

Help, I'm trapped in an infinite factory! code-golf This challenge is loosely inspired by the Zachtronics game Infinifactory. You are given a top-down view of a rectangular grid of conveyors, represented by >v<^. There may be cells without conveyors, represented by spaces. Here is an example: >

Alex A.

17:21

@MartinBüttner Doorknob discontinued development of Ostrich. u_u

@Sp3000 "Real Fast Nora's Hair Salon 3: Shear Disaster Download" <-- Is that a real language??

Peter Taylor

It looks a bit too easy to identify.

Alex A.

17:36

Indeed it does

TreFox

@AlexA. esolangs.org/wiki/…

Alex A.

@TreFox Yeah, I was just reading that page.

TreFox

From now on I want to only write submissions in that language...

Alex A.

Then don't expect to win any code golf challenges. :P

TreFox

I don't even care, just the opportunity to have an answer with 'Real Fast Nora's Hair Salon 3: Shear Disaster Download' in the title makes it completely worth it.

Alex A.

17:40

@MartinBüttner Would it confuse your snippet if a language was called ??? ?

TreFox

Test it out

Alex A.

Nice, it works.

Martin Büttner

18:19

@AlexA. I believe neither esolangs nor wikipedia lists such a language.

Peter Taylor

There's still time to add one...

Martin Büttner

@AlexA. The problem with a language of that name would be safe submissions, not cracked ones. Although you could still make it work if you turned the name into a link (which you probably should with that language name)

@PeterTaylor I dare you...

@PeterTaylor good point for the factories... I might reorder those.

Beta Decay

18:53

Anyone who has an aversion to the posting of this challenge say aye or forever hold your peace

Optimizer

aye

Beta Decay

Haha why aye man?

*llama

Beta Decay

19:09

Alright, I'll post it now then

New Main Posts

19:20

0

Q: Ich ne know pas

Challenge You must write a program which correctly identifies the language a passage is written in. Rules The passage will be a string passed to your program either via STDIN or function arguments. You may not use any external sources except for a local text file with words. The length of the...

code-golf code-challenge

Optimizer

so if a post is 10 pages long, is it wise to put TLDR at the very end ?

Beta Decay

That gives people an incentive not to read the post then

And so may misinterpret the rules

Optimizer

nothing to do with PPCG

in general.

Beta Decay

Ohh a post. Yeah, I guess a summary is a good addition

Optimizer

you seem to not understand my question completely

Beta Decay

19:29

Uhh what is your question? :/

trichoplax

I've never understood "Too long, didn't read" at the end of a document. If someone can't be bothered to read any further, surely they just give up and look at something else, not scroll down to the end without reading?

Optimizer

exactly

Dennis

@Optimizer I hate it when people do that. Although it fits perfectly with "too long, didn't read".

Martin Büttner

@PeterTaylor is the conveyor thing clearer now?

trichoplax

I've occasionally seen it at the start, which makes much more sense, and actually provides some motivation for reading the longer version

Dennis

19:31

Technically TL;WR though.

4

Optimizer

@Dennis but if there is no special ormatting, they will surely miss the TLDR part too

trichoplax

Yes - someone should campaign to get that changed...

Optimizer

WR?

Dennis

Won't read.

Optimizer

@trichoplax I heard Rainbolr is running campaign emails..

trichoplax

19:32

@Optimizer For this, or just in general?

Optimizer

@trichoplax read it as "he should do it"

trichoplax

You might want to use a ping then ;)

Optimizer

no way

trichoplax

I think the reason tl;dr is often at the end may be because it originated in forums where it might be added as an afterthought or by another person, when the original text is not editable

Which means there is no excuse for it on SE

Someone should definitely campaign

Peter Taylor

@MartinBüttner Yes, thanks.

@BetaDecay Aye.

Martin Büttner

19:45

:D

Have you ever seen the film Lord of War? (yes, the one with Nicolas Cage)

Peter Taylor

No.

Martin Büttner

ah, too bad. your "Aye" comically reminded me of a rather grim scene where Nic Cage also says the "stop word" too late.

Beta Decay

21:19

Wth? Laugen Pretzels use caustic soda in the cooking process?

I wouldn't trust that it's all baked off :P

Martin Büttner

21:32

"Lauge" == "base"

Optimizer

Lauge2?

Martin Büttner

Lauge64

Beta Decay

Lauge jumping

Optimizer

3rd Lauge

Martin Büttner

Laugically, ...

Optimizer

21:35

wow, its a pun and a correct word at the same time

Logically, Basically

Beta Decay

SI lauge unit

And that is really interesting actually :D

Reto Koradi

Nah, that's completely laugeless.

Beta Decay

21:51

I don't know what you're laugeing that on

Optimizer

ALL YOUR LAUGE ARE BELONG TO US

8

Beta Decay

I can't top that.

Optimizer

My job here is done.

TTS

Beta Decay

Teething To Start?

Basset Hound

23:02

Learning Python, is there a way to add to a map? I know with list it's .append, and I'm trying to use .append with the map and it's giving me an error,

Thomas Kwa

What did we have the algorithm-advice tag for in the first place?

Martin Büttner

I have no clue...

Basset Hound

For nubs like me that don't know what they're doing :P

Well, never mind.

Beta Decay

You can try list(map())+[x]

Or list(map()).append(x)

@BassetHound

Thomas Kwa

We should keep a few tags like algorithm-advice, and if a question is submitted with one of them, set up something to automatically move it to Stack Overflow :P

Martin Büttner

23:23

SO doesn't really deserve that...

Thomas Kwa

heh, fair point.

Basset Hound

Nevermind, I fixed the problem.

@BetaDecay I was trying to .append the map (dict).

Alex A.

@trichoplax Have you considered running for mod?

3

Beta Decay

@BassetHound Ohh, no you use dictionary[key] = value

Basset Hound

23:50

Yep @BetaDecay

Thanks for the help anyway

Beta Decay

Uhh no problem.

Transcript for